Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[Ganonsburg]

So, all these match-ups with Samus are the equivilant of sticking Falco on FD with Ganon, or DDD on any walk off stage with any other character? BS. That's not fair in the least bit. I think we need to discuss what happens in other environments. Like deserts, jungles, cities, etc.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

So, all these match-ups with Samus are the equivilant of sticking Falco on FD with Ganon, or DDD on any walk off stage with any other character? BS. That's not fair in the least bit. I think we need to discuss what happens in other environments. Like deserts, jungles, cities, etc.

Using different maps will only benefit one character better than the other. We're using a neutral map for a reason.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Samus CAN be beaten... We just dunno how yet. Errr, Ganondorf could possibly kill her at least. Maybe the StarFox characters stand a chance..? Bowser with his Starrod would do. Don't forget Luigi came a long way, so maybe Peach stands a chance with her Parasol?

But yeah, she'll pretty much beat everybody. While everybody is pretty much struggeling against the psychics, Ness, Lucas and Mewtwo, Samus beats them pretty easily.

Samus is just the strongest character around, but she'll get beaten sometimes...

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ganondorf, Ike, maybe even Bowser.

 

[missingnomaster]

Samus CAN be beaten... We just dunno how yet. Errr, Ganondorf could possibly kill her at least. Maybe the StarFox characters stand a chance..? Bowser with his Starrod would do. Don't forget Luigi came a long way, so maybe Peach stands a chance with her Parasol?

But yeah, she'll pretty much beat everybody. While everybody is pretty much struggeling against the psychics, Ness, Lucas and Mewtwo, Samus beats them pretty easily.

Samus is just the strongest character around, but she'll get beaten sometimes...

Ganondorf can do it for sure, along with Bowser because of invincibility. And Ike if Samus can't find a way to take his sword.

Samus could probably crash into Starfox characters on her own ship to defeat them. Her ship is mega durable, as shown be MP3.

Peach could probably be defeated with Dark Burst.

 

[REL38]

Samus would already be shooting him down with the imperialist.


And if you guys REALLY insist on starting with stuff, then Samus can just start with her INTERGALACTIC spaceship too high for Luigi's superjump to reach, fly off at SPEEDS THAT LET HER CROSS GALAXIES WITHOUT AGING to a VERY far-off point in the arena, get the speed boost going, and it's over.

The Imperialist takes a second to switch to like all of her other beams.
People are saying Music Box takes a second as well.
The both would go off at the same time. Samus will be sleeping while Luigi is revived with a Life Shroom.

If Samus starts out in her Gunship, then Luigi uses a Stopwatch.
From all of the cutscenes I've seen, it takes a few seconds to lift off and gain speed.

Also, what do you mean by start out with?
Luigi would use the Music Box straight out of his item inventory.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Bowser yes. Ike... I dunno, the Chozo are also a different sort of species as "Beorc" which Fire Emblem calls regular humans. Samus' suits and beams might very well be equal to a blessing of sorts.

Most beams come from battling bosses right? Well, Ike could still be hurt by Goldoa's Dragons. That alone makes me think he'll lose to the psychics and Samus. Donkey Kong probably could hurt Ike as well, dunno about winning, probably not.

Still think Peach has a way of winning. She'd defend herself from the Speed Booster and beams while looking for an opening to use the Stop Watch. Probably wouldn't work, but maybe a draw? Sonic looks able to beat Samus as well...

 

[Ganonsburg]

My point was that clear, empty spaces=/=neutral. Smashers should know that of all people.

 

[missingnomaster]

Sonic probably can, he has superior speed, and for 16 minutes, superior invincibility. Plus flight.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

My point was that clear, empty spaces=/=neutral. Smashers should know that of all people.

Then what is 'equal' in your mind?

 

[Ganonsburg]

Then what is equal in your mind?

I'm not sure. I'm not saying that Samus shouldn't get to use her speed boost indefinitely or use all her weaponry, but if the opponent is dead as soon as the match starts, then the field is obviously biased in favor of Samus.

 

[Kewkky]

The Imperialist takes a second to switch to like all of her other beams.
People are saying Music Box takes a second as well.
The both would go off at the same time. Samus will be sleeping while Luigi is revived with a Life Shroom.

If you save the game with a weapon on, then load it, she starts out with whatever weapon you saved it with. When you move from planet to planet, she starts out with whatever weapon you had equipped last. So, she can start out with the imperialist and shoot Luigi immediately.

If Samus starts out in her Gunship, then Luigi uses a Stopwatch.
From all of the cutscenes I've seen, it takes a few seconds to lift off and gain speed.

In all the Metroid games, she starts out in her ship, in Outer Space. What's keeping her from starting out this way? She could just do that and land somewhere immensely far from Luigi, and there's no way Luigi can guess when she lands. If he uses up all of his stopwatches while she's in the air, he no longer has access to them. She can then land safely out of his perception, speed boost to him (she has a map and a targeting system in her helmet), and start the match.

Also, what do you mean by start out with?
Luigi would use the Music Box straight out of his item inventory.

Start out, as in as soon as they are pitted against each other.

 

[Samochan]

I'm wondering whether samus can even hear sounds inside her suit that are harmful to her. Annihilator beam is used to open sonic locks on MP2: echoes, yet you cannot see a sonic boom with echo visor when you fire it, even though you see annihilator beam shots. In the best case scenario, if you saw a sonic boom with echo visor, you'd essentially go blind as it's so powerful, kinda alike Thardus overloading your thermal visor with a simple explosion of heat/phazon thingy. Her suit also has an innate danger meter, which rises whenever there's environmental damage like lava, acid and even electricity. Not forgetting all that noise coming from her own speed boosting and using sonic boom would break render her deaf, alongside massive explosions and whatnot, yet she's not. So these would support the possibility of her suit rendering harmful sounds to harmless. She's protected by her suit's energy force field and sound waves need to pass that energy field in order to reach her ears, not to mention the actual suit. It might be though that only loud noises are reduced in volume by her power suit, which would probably be the likely scenario, yet the suit itself can seemingly assess the danger coming from environment independently. In a case where Samus would feel herself falling asleep due to music box sounds, the power suit would most likely block off the sound as it's bonded to her biologically and if she thought of this sound being danger, it should be able to block this sound due to being harmful to her.

In any case, I can imagine she'd wake up if Luigi were to ram at her with Mega mushroom when she's asleep and then deal with that.

--

To current match... as with adult Link, Mewtwo can use embargo to strip him from using any items. This should include sword and shield, as like with Blue bubble you're forced to put these items away whenever afflicted with it. For moveset:

Embargo/Aura Sphere/Recover/Calm mind (substitute)

Pretty self explanatory. Embargo first, then calm mind up around 2-3 times, then start hitting TL with Aura sphere that'll never miss. TL being unable to use anything besides Magic (and maybe sword and shield), he'd be forced to use Magic armor to protect himself from harm, which doesn't last that long. In case where he could still use sword and shield, hurricane spin would be his most damaging attack yet it'll leave him totally vulnerable afterwards. If he were to use both magic armor and hurricane spin in conjuction, it would drain his magic meter extremely fast, but wouldn't leave him vulnerable. However mewtwo would get ample time to set up. Hurricane spin is fairly powerful, but needs much time to charge up and it's hard to control, meaning unless magic armor is used from the beginning, TL cannot even charge up without getting beaten to the ground. Eventually Link's magic will wear out and it'll do so fairly quickly if he keeps using magic armor and hurricane spin, which can be dodged fairly easily cause Link is stuck on pre-spin attack position and can only move slowly on ground, giving mewtwo ample time to just get away from the range.

Embargo alone means TL will be in deep ****. Mewtwo >> characters relying on items. :3

My point was that clear, empty spaces=/=neutral. Smashers should know that of all people.

Rocky landscape with lava and acid and deadly atmosphere would be less neutral. =) Samus is at home in every kind of environment anyway, it would only hinder every other character besides her (well might not be able to speed boost, but who cares lol, just hyper mode and phazon everything organic and mutate them to a phazon monster rofl (lawl thardus)).

Empty space is as neutral as it can get. No disruptions there at all aka no random outside factors to influence the match, therefore it relies entirely on the capabilities of a character to use such landscape.

 

[Joeadok]

Alternate strategy, just give luigi the boo shroom.

 

[Kewkky]

Alternate strategy, just give luigi the boo shroom.

How would Luigi even know where she is? And what special thing would Boo luigi be able to do, besides fly and go invisible? Samus can use the Light beam to change him back, then kill him.

 

[PowerBomb]

Boo Shroom? What's that do? Boo Weegee?

EDIT: Obvious statement is obvious

X-ray visor makes Samus lawl at all invisible things. It also has the side effect of making intangible objects tangible, but that's probably a game mech (lawl).

 

[Samochan]

Alternate strategy, just give luigi the boo shroom.

Luigi personally doesn't like this item (he frowns when he needs to equip it). But in any case, Boo Luigi could fly and go through walls and become intangible (note, not invisible and even if that, lol x-ray tracks ghosts), however...

You're forced to become normal when you go into light rays. And as we well know, Samus has light beam lol. This Boo shroom maneuver could very well doom Luigi if he were to use it, providing her with ample opportunity to Light beam him or even possibly sunburst. Even worse, he'd be forced to stick to this form till samus were to bust him out, but that wouldn't be pleasant to poor Luigi. =)

 

[justaway12]

Things go through him, I think.

What game are we talking about? Galaxy, right?

 

[Kewkky]

X-ray visor makes Samus lawl at all invisible things. It also has the side effect of making intangible objects tangible, but that's probably a game mech (lawl).

Well, it could also have the effect of altering Samus' weapons to a wavelength that lets her damage those enemies, if normal weaponry wouldn't do it. But that's just an assumption.

She COULD still powerbomb, that affects everything and brings light.

 

[Joeadok]

Ok, Samus was oviously made to beat everyone else. I'd suggest the warp whistle or tanooki statue invinciblity, but I don't know...

 

[Samochan]

Things go through him, I think.

What game are we talking about? Galaxy, right?

Galaxy yea.

Though Luigi becomes intangible if you shake the wiimote and while he can go through walls, enemies and things can still hurt him when not being fully intangible.

Light beam in itself should both bring him out of Boo shroom effects and damage him, alongside burning him. But she can hit intangible ghosts even without her x-ray visor with her power beam (alongside super missile), but the x-ray is just there to track these ghosts when they go invisible.

Warp whistle warps you to another stage... uhm. >_>; Non-useable here.

Tanooki suit was already beaten earlier, he cannot stay invincible for long and whenever he's not using it, he'll get damaged by samus. Among other things, like hyper mode phazon clinging to surfaces as it's organic semi-sentinent self-replicating substance, possiblity of freezing him in place and then shattering with missile when tanoki stone mode wears out, aim with imperialist and ohko when it wears out/luigi needs to refresh it. Such things. Invincibility is not too good if he can't do **** to abuse the mode or even move around.

 

[justaway12]

Boo Luigi wasn't on an item list, how can he come to battle?

If you can do that, just get the invisable hat, that isn't effected by light, I tihnk you got that with Flower Power or the hat.

He can also use everything as he wishes, everything goes through him, then he uses the music box.

 

[Kewkky]

Ok, Samus was oviously made to beat everyone else. I'd suggest the warp whistle or tanooki statue invinciblity, but I don't know...

The OP says:

If a character is forced to retreat away from his or her opponent with the use of his or her ability(ies) since he or she has no other option , that match will not result in a draw, rather a loss for the retreating character.

So, Samus can retreat until Luigi runs out of Starmen and Mega mushrooms since she's still able to do stuff, but Luigi loses as soon as he gets into Tanooki or uses the whistle to run away from Samus... She's got a counter for too many things.

 

[PowerBomb]

Galaxy yea.

Though Luigi becomes intangible if you shake the wiimote and while he can go through walls, enemies and things can still hurt him when not being fully intangible.

Light beam in itself should both bring him out of Boo shroom effects and damage him, alongside burning him. But she can hit intangible ghosts even without her x-ray visor with her power beam (alongside super missile), but the x-ray is just there to track these ghosts when they go invisible.

I'd bet she could still hit him with elemental weapons as well, unless Luigi has a specific immunity to the elemental weapons, like the Chozo Ghosts do.

 

[Samochan]

I'd bet she could still hit him with elemental weapons as well, unless Luigi has a specific immunity to the elemental weapons, like the Chozo Ghosts do.

Well I dunno, there's still power beam in any case and super missile is more than enough. =)

Wait wait...

Phazon corrupted these spirits of the chozo in the first place... which means phazon or at least it's effects can still affect ghosts!!! :o

Dun dun duuu

'Kay so hyper mode to the win. Either outright kill boo Luigi or make him go insane from phazon radiation and insanity. :3

Hyper mode is <3

 

[justaway12]

Boo Luigi wasn't on an item list, how can he come to battle?

If you can do that, just get the invisable hat, that isn't effected by light, I tihnk you got that with Flower Power or the hat.

 

[Samochan]

Boo Luigi wasn't on an item list, how can he come to battle?

If you can do that, just get the invisable hat, that isn't effected by light, I tihnk you got that with Flower Power or the hat.

Well that. >_>

I guess Boo luigi and the hats are out of the question then. Non-carriable items gotten from environment (such as health, coins, rings, powerups) are no-go.

 

[Kewkky]

Hypermode Samus would be impossible to beat, since she's invincible. If Luigi stops time, then she stops completely, including her phazon poisoning, meaning she's invincible while stopped. What can Luigi do then?

Anyway, Mewtwo wins this MU, What's the next MU?

 

[justaway12]

Use that Music box.

...Or you know, pick her up and throw her away, when she wakes up, she'll be somewhere different, then Luigi uses another Stop Watch.

 

[Samochan]

Use that Music box.

...Or you know, pick her up and throw her away, when she wakes up, she'll be somewhere different, then Luigi uses another Stop Watch.

Stop watch has 4 seconds startup lag <.<

More than enough to look at her radar, aim and fire some phhaaazzooonnn. Besides how could you move a stopped opponent? <_> And uh, throwing seems to be really desperate, doubtful she'll even get damage cause she falls from very high without getting any damage (just grunts), gets very little damage from terminal falls and there are no obstacles to throw her into.

And being invincible, would she be invincible to music box effects too? <_>

And this: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8961691&postcount=7573

 

[REL38]

If you save the game with a weapon on, then load it, she starts out with whatever weapon you saved it with. When you move from planet to planet, she starts out with whatever weapon you had equipped last. So, she can start out with the imperialist and shoot Luigi immediately.


In all the Metroid games, she starts out in her ship, in Outer Space. What's keeping her from starting out this way? She could just do that and land somewhere immensely far from Luigi, and there's no way Luigi can guess when she lands. If he uses up all of his stopwatches while she's in the air, he no longer has access to them. She can then land safely out of his perception, speed boost to him (she has a map and a targeting system in her helmet), and start the match.

Huh

I didn't notice you start out with the last beam from planet to planet.

If the Gunship is already airbourne, then I got nothin'


Samus winning every MU is getting kinda meh

 

[Joeadok]

But the music box is *magical*, but it's irrelevant unless she isn't speed boosting.

 

[justaway12]

@Samochan:Music Box activates in one second...or so, he can do it in-game before matches, she can sleep before matches.

Then how can she...you know hear people, you see her talking to people.

The music box is a status effect not a physical effect.

I didn't mean throwing, I meant picking up and moving, she is froze in time.

 

[BSP]

Ike is losing to Ganondorf, but that's another matchup. Or at least a draw.

And I guess a time stop would be trouble for Kirby, though he can stay pretty high in the air with a warp star.

Kirby can go high, but Sonic does have an airplane (tornado)...or at least he can fly them. I've noticed that all of sonic's opponents (minus ike and ganon) have to stall super sonic and then attempt to hurt normal sonic(still formidable btw).

Luigi can't win. By the time the time he uses the music box, the imperialist hits him. Tanooki has flaws, and so do mega mushroom and starmen, samus is just too good lol.

 

[Kewkky]

@Samochan:Music Box activates in one second...or so, he can do it in-game before matches, she can sleep before matches.

Uhh......... But if the match starts as soon as the fighters are chosen, then wouldn't that mean he can't use it? And sleeping before matches... Sounds iffy as an argument. : \

Then how can she...you know hear people, you see her talking to people.

Maybe her suit stops the harmful sounds, just like how her suit can't detect her Sonicboom attack's sound... She would've gone deaf a long time ago if she ever used the speed boost without some sort of sound-regulator, for example, or deaf from the noise of exploding planets whenever she runs from them.

The music box is a status effect not a physical effect.

She shakes off status effects. Even frozen, she can get out of ice. When opponents hack her suit, she reboots. She can't get poisoned, either. I'm sure she has something for sleep-inducing abilities.

I didn't mean throwing, I meant picking up and moving, she is froze in time.

Man, if this was The Deadliest Brawler, I'd pull off some epic quantum physics. I guess he can do that here.

 

[Kewkky]

Kirby can go high, but Sonic does have an airplane (tornado)...or at least he can fly them.

Uhh... It's Sonic's, or Tails'? I don't remember very well... He DOES have to go get it, start it up, then circle around until he reaches Kirby. Kirby could just stone down on Sonic or inhale the plane along with Sonic while he's turning the plane on.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

@Samus stuff

Wasn't there a lucas arguement with __clinton in which you said since he never actually uses the abilities, he doesn't have them? If so then why can Samu shave these suppossed Sound regulators if she never was confirmed and seen using them?

 

[Kewkky]

Shino, I'm assuming, I'm not saying she HAS them, I'm just saying that might be why in the games, she can hear people, but doesn't go deaf with heavy sounds... It's not like sleep is harmful, anyway.

 

[BSP]

Uhh... It's Sonic's, or Tails'? I don't remember very well... He DOES have to go get it, start it up, then circle around until he reaches Kirby. Kirby could just stone down on Sonic or inhale the plane along with Sonic while he's turning the plane on.

well, sonic owned the first tornado (the red one), but the egg carrier kinda destroyed it...but i dont think that should matter since bowser still gets the star rod even though he lost it in game.

Kirby would be frozen in time, so he wouldn't be able to retaliate. Now that I think about it, kirby has to stay stone/metal until sonic runs out of rings right? Well as soon as he comes out, all sonic has to do is stop time...meaning that kirby would have no options. He'd have to stay stone the whole time to avoid getting run over. And then, going stone in the beginning is his only option since if he doesnt, super sonic gets him or he gets frozen in time while not invincible. So isn't he indefinitely stalling, giving Sonic the win?

Edit: Oh, this has been changed, my bad.

 

[Kewkky]

well, sonic owned the first tornado (the red one), but the egg carrier kinda destroyed it...but i dont think that should matter since bowser still gets the star rod even though he lost it in game.

Kirby would be frozen in time, so he wouldn't be able to retaliate. Now that I think about it, kirby has to stay stone/metal until sonic runs out of rings right? Well as soon as he comes out, all sonic has to do is stop time...meaning that kirby would have no options. He'd have to stay stone the whole time to avoid getting run over. And then, going stone in the beginning is his only option since if he doesnt, super sonic gets him or he gets frozen in time while not invincible.

Well, Kirby loses then. I only want Samus to win anyway. :F