Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[justaway12]

We set up a rule for running away only nothing else, even if we did, Sonic beats Kirby now.

And I'm saying Luigi defends while Samus gets close or against Samus' weapons and her speed booster.

@IsmaR: It takes like a second to transform back, he transforms, get's out, transforms again, it's not that long, Luigi also had an item page so he can bring it into battle.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

How the match-ups work: All characters are given their in-game abilities. The matches take place in a wide open neutral field. If a character's ability allows it to go out the map, then that ability will be toned down to traveling far away from the opponent, but still on the map. If a character is forced to retreat away from his or her opponent with the use of his or her ability(ies) since he or she has no other option , that match will not result in a draw, rather a loss for the retreating character. Other than the previous mentioned rules, a character may do anything possible to win their match. Also, no back-up is allowed, vehicles are allowed, and WISHING TO WIN IS BANNED.

From the OP.

 

[justaway12]

Read my last post.

 

[IsmaR]

We set up a rule for running away only nothing else, even if we did, Sonic beats Kirby now.

And I'm saying Luigi defends while Samus gets close or against Samus' weapons and her speed booster.

@IsmaR: It takes like a second to transform back, he transforms, get's out, transforms again, it's not that long, Luigi also had an item page so he can bring it into battle.

Luigi has no time to defend. And the Imperialist takes less than a second to shoot/reach it's target, she could shoot him while he is transforming.

 

[Kewkky]

Pfft, Samus can just circle around Tanooki Luigi until he changes back, then shoot him while in Speed Booster/ram into him. Supersonic speed ftw. Samus wins this.

 

[Samochan]

@IsmaR: It takes like a second to transform back, he transforms, get's out, transforms again, it's not that long, Luigi also had an item page so he can bring it into battle.

Luigi, in any case, needs to refresh tanoki sui's stone ability from time to time, in which case he's vulnerable to her assaults. Many of her weapons have lingering effects as well, such as power bomb, phazon, omega cannon... if she were to just cover tanoki suit with phazon... Luigi coming out would not have a nice time. And since tanoki suit wears out after a certain duration of time, she could freeze it, wait it to wear out and shatter him with missile.

 

[Crystanium]

It doesn't wear out, IIRC.

It's like the raccon suit or the penguin suit or fire Mario, IIRC.

Again, he has a lot of life shrooms.

It wears out. Just to prove this, start at 1:15 of this video.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

We set up a rule for running away only nothing else, even if we did, Sonic beats Kirby now.

I think I have some editing to do.

 

[justaway12]

Luigi has no time to defend. And the Imperialist takes less than a second to shoot/reach it's target, she could shoot him while he is transforming.

Again, this is just like Sonic vs. Kirby.

Look at dryns post, it's a flash, then stone again.

Even look at Sonic vs. Kirby Summary

@Dryn: I'm pretty sure he just cancelled the stone abilty, remember, Stone Mario can't move, so he had to snap out of it, the effect wears out but not that fast, IIRC.

It's a shame, most of Samus' attacks are OHKO, every other Mario character has something to prevent OHKO, the imperialist wouldn't have worked if it was someone else =/

I'm pretty sure he can use 2 items at once, he turns to stone, then get's the Mega mushroom while Samus is circling him, snaps out of stone and turns into a mushroom.

If he makes a mistake, he has a life shroom and turns back to life.

 

[IsmaR]

It's not that most of them are OHKO. They'd just destroy pretty much any Mario character, lol.

 

[justaway12]

Exactly, that's a OHKO, one hit knock out, they have something to prevent that, it's a badge or something, it's a shame it wasn't Mario, but I'll work with what I have and that's Luigi, the next best thing <3

 

[missingnomaster]

I know for a fact that in SMB 3 you couldn't stay in the statue forever. I don't know why it would be different in NSMB.

If it is though, Samus digs a hole and pulls statue Luigi into it with the Grapple Beam. Fills the hole in. Luigi is trapped in a hole. GG

 

[justaway12]

I thought you were talking about the actual costume, yeah the effect wears out, I was talking about SMB.3, not NSMB.

Though it's said the way it works is a button in the front, and the way out is wishing he was out in the comics anyway, but it hasn't been proved as canon though =/

I THINK it's canon from Mario wiki

* This story is the only story in the Mario cartoons or comics to feature the Tanooki Suit, and also the only time in any officially licensed Mario material that Bowser and Wart are seen together.

I guess it isn't true to it's game though.

 

[Kewkky]

No, Samus beats Luigi. How can people argue against this? D:

If Luigi is forced to turtle it out with nothing to do, while Samus can still do anything she desires, it looks like Samus wins to me. Luigi's resorted to a strategy fully bent on survival, while Samus is still free to do any options she desires.

She can speed boost indefinitely around Tanooki Luigi, and then away from Mega Luigi, all while shooting a barrage of plasma beams/wave beams. Whenever Luigi goes vulnerable, he loses.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Yes guys, If a character is forced to "retreat" or isn't capable of fighting back, then he or she loses.

I think I'm going to have to change some match-ups around now. (Zelda Vs. Peach & Sonic Vs. Kirby).

Doesn't Kirby have other traits to keep up with Sonic?

 

[Samochan]

I believe the zelda & peach matchup is a definite draw, because the chars are still able to fight against each other, cept their defences just cancel those out. It's not like they deliberately stall the match because they can't do ****. >_>

Anyways, both tanooki suit stone and mega mushroom wear out after certain duration of time, which is only 10-15 or so seconds. During the time Luigi refreshes tanooki or gets out from mega mushroom, he's vulnerable to anything samus does, which can be quite a lot. Not forgetting phazon, which is a semi-sentinent self-replicating substance that can cling to surfaces. Just add a drop of phazon on top of luigi and whenever he comes out of whatever invincibility he has, he'll get killed.

And life shrooms are not auto-life, they're only lives so you can go back to the game after you lost a life (and coincidentally get kicked out of the map), but don't need to start from the very beginning all over again. It's not health nor can life system be applied here.

 

[justaway12]

@Kewkky:I wouldn't argue if Samus interested me, but she seems sooo boring =/

He has like 99 life shrooms, health won't be a problem, he doesn't lose while invurable.

If she is planning something big he goes out and uses stop watch.

if she's circling tanooki, he summons a mega-mushroom and chases her, if he can't catch her, he makes enough distance to use Stop Watch.

@Samo: I don't belive Zelda can actually do anything since, IIRC, the Light bows don't effect the pure of heart.

 

[missingnomaster]

To clarify, would Kirby be allowed to use Metal/Stone to stall Sonic out of rings for Super Sonic?

Because then Kirby might have a chance since Kirby would still have options for invincibility and flight, and Sonic wouldn't.


Samus' beams travel very quick, especially the charged ones. Luigi doesn't have time to use the Stop Watch. Plus, the fight gets much quicker once Luigi loses Tanooki.

 

[Samochan]

Justaway, pls read this edit:

And life shrooms are not auto-life, they're only lives so you can go back to the game after you lost a life (and coincidentally get kicked out of the map, meaning you got killed and unable to continue as you were), but don't need to start from the very beginning all over again. It's not health nor can life system be applied here.

I do not believe there's any been any auto-revival thing on mario bros games (unless I'm totally wrong, but please provide evidence of the contrary then please). You lose your health, you're done unless you happen to have a partner. But you collect life shrooms so you get another chance at the map.

 

[justaway12]

Those are NOT what Life shroom do, Raizen you are talking about 1-ups.

There was an auto-revival in SPM, the moment they got 0 hp, they just jumped back up again and continued, no maps, no restarting, nothing like that.

 

[missingnomaster]

Don't the shrooms in the rpgs auto activate? Or does a partner have to use them?

 

[Kewkky]

They auto-activate, but whats the point. If Luigi couldn't touch Samus while in his first life, what makes you think he'll be able to while getting revived? She could even stand in front of him and shoot at him nonstop while he keeps reviving, until he runs out of 'em.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

To clarify, would Kirby be allowed to use Metal/Stone to stall Sonic out of rings for Super Sonic?

Because then Kirby might have a chance since Kirby would still have options for invincibility and flight, and Sonic wouldn't..

Yes, unless it deliberately stalling so that the other character can NOT win, it's fine.

And Kirby's not doing such.

 

[justaway12]

Well somebody wins that match-up. I think we should re-do it.

Even if, look at the last match-up description.

Summarized Reason: Kirby uses his Stone ability. Sonic waits for Kirby to return to his normal form. Sonic attacks if Kirby resumes his normal form. Not to mention, Sonic moves way too fast for Kirby to do anything to him.

Sonic can still attack when Kirby transforms back.

 

[Samochan]

Those are NOT what Life shroom do, Raizen you are talking about 1-ups.

There was an auto-revival in SPM, the moment they got 0 hp, they just jumped back up again and continued, no maps, no restarting, nothing like that.

Oh snap, sorry.

1-up shrooms and life shrooms are indeed different.

However, shroom only restores mario with 10 hp and on super paper marip, 5hp. He'd be very vulnerable to rapid fire with such low hp.

 

[Crystanium]

@Dryn: I'm pretty sure he just cancelled the stone abilty, remember, Stone Mario can't move, so he had to snap out of it, the effect wears out but not that fast, IIRC.

The video shows the ability wearing off. Once it starts flashing, it means that it's wearing off.

It's a shame, most of Samus' attacks are OHKO, every other Mario character has something to prevent OHKO, the imperialist wouldn't have worked if it was someone else =/

I am going to bring up what I wrote to PowerBomb. I thought I wouldn't be able to use this information, so I decided to send it to PowerBomb. However, you brought up the Imperialist, so I'm just going to get a few things out of the way here for a few of Samus' beam weapons. This is more about the weapons' speed, rather than how destructive they are.

Spazer Beam

It's called "Spazer Laser Beam" in Metroid 2: Return of Samus. We both know what "laser" means. It travels at light speed. Think of this weapon like a flashlight in a way when Samus uses it. When you turn on a flashlight, the light is instantly there. It isn't being fired like out like the Power Beam where you can see it being fired and traveling. So, if in-game animation went with this, it would look like a flashlight being turned on and then off.

Light Beam

I believe it was PowerBomb who said that the Light Beam would travel at the speed of light, since it fires light energy.

Annihilator Beam

I was checking the day before yesterday to see why the Annihilator Beam was given this name. I don't think it has anything to do with matter and anti-matter. Otherwise, this would be the most confusing beam weapon Samus has. I still don't know how the Annihilator Beam uses light and dark energy to create this beam, but we both know that it is useful with the Echo Visor. Samus is able to see sound, and that's basically what the Annihilator Beam fires.

The day before yesterday, I asked myself why Samus would even have this weapon, and if sound could actually kill you. It turns out that sound can kill you at 200 decibels (dB). I suppose this is why it's called "Disruptor" when you charge up the Annihilator Beam. There are these things called sonic weapons, and there are different types. There is one that uses acoustic air that can knock people back. Another one can liquify living tissue. But, with the Disruptor, enemies are stunned. Perhaps they become disoriented.

Another thing we both know about the Annihilator Beam is that the Charge Combo is called "Sonic Boom." In-game, we see a mosaic, glass-like field before us. It instantly hits Samus' opponents and kills them. So, I've been thinking now that perhaps the Annihilator Beam travels at the speed of sound, or 768 miles per hour. That's 1,126 feet per second. A sonic boom can only be created when an object or thing travels at supersonic speed. I wouldn't be surprised if it traveled in the Mach 4 range. After all, it's not unheard of that firearms can travel these speeds, so I don't see why a sound weapon couldn't do the same.

Imperialist

This travels at light speed, because it's a laser weapon.

 

[justaway12]

But they are still OHKO, right? Or is it just a spamming thing?

 

[Samochan]

Wasn't spazer beam just an upgrade to divide your beam weapon shots into three? It doesn't ever work as an actual beam weapon, but just an upgrade, even on metroid II.

I disagree with the light beam traveling at the speed of light, simply due to game showing it not to. Sunburst is a light burst, yet it's noticeably her slowest beam combo to date. So travelign at the speed of light would really conflict with the games itself. Light beam is only as fast as her plasma beam on Prime 1. It's a Luminoth weapon which they used on their war against the Ing as the light qualities on it were much more effective than overloading ing with dark beam, but Luminoth use light based equipment for other things.

Annihilator beam kinda makes and doesn't make sense. It indeed seems like a sound attack, especially when you use sonic boom and sonic boom is so fast only the attack when it hits the target is visible, you never see it traveling. However, if sonic boom was indeed a sound based attack, you'd see it with echo visor which you don't. :/ Also, annihilator beam was originally installed on quadraxis and still uses the light and dark matter to create the beam weapon, it's unlikely such matter could somehow now produce a sound based attack when combined. :/ It maybe just be called sonic boom because it travels so very quickly, but simply from the name and quickness we can't deduce it's a sound attack.

 

[Crystanium]

Wasn't spazer beam just an upgrade to divide your beam weapon shots into three?

It widens the beam weapon. In Metroid 2: Return of Samus, you could only use one beam at a time. Still, it was called Spazer Laser Beam, which is why I brought it up traveling at the speed of light.

I disagree with the light beam traveling at the speed of light, simply due to game showing it not to.

Video games have limitations. The Speed Booster is an example. Sure, it says she runs at supersonic speeds, but the game isn't displaying it accurately. Another example is once you get the Light of Aether into one of those Energy Controllers, and we see a beam of light traveling, even though in reality, it would just be instantaneously from point A to point B.

Sunburst is a light burst, yet it's noticeably her slowest beam combo to date. So travelign at the speed of light would really conflict with the games itself. Light beam is only as fast as her plasma beam on Prime 1. It's a Luminoth weapon which they used on their war against the Ing as the light qualities on it were much more effective than overloading ing with dark beam.

Then I don't know what the Light of Aether is, because that's where the light energy to create the Light Beam comes from.

Annihilator beam kinda makes and doesn't make sense. It indeed seems like a sound attack, especially when you use sonic boom and sonic boom is so fast only the attack when it hits the target is visible, you never see it traveling. However, if sonic boom was indeed a sound based attack, you'd see it with echo visor which you don't. :/

I'm aware of that, and Wikitroid gives a reason, although I find that reason to be stupid. It doesn't mean it's not a sonic weapon, otherwise there's no point in having a beam weapon activate objects that need sound, and it's pointless to call the Charge Combo, "Sonic Boom."

Also, annihilator beam was originally installed on quadraxis and still uses the light and dark matter to create the beam weapon, it's unlikely such matter could somehow now produce a sound based attack when combined. :/

Where does it say the Annihilator Beam was installed on Quadraxis? I see the Log Book saying it has a "primary weapon system [that] fires destructive matter-antimatter blasts," but nothing about the Annihilator Beam, unless you think this is saying Quadraxis had the Annihilator Beam, in which case you would need to back it up. This, aside from the Nova Beam, has got to be the most confusing beam weapon ever.

It maybe just be called sonic boom because it travels so very quickly, but simply from the name and quickness we can't deduce it's a sound attack.

I doubt that. Using a beam weapon that opens doors based on sound and the name of the Charge Combo seems to suggest it being a sonic weapon of some sort.

 

[Ekul]

Couldn't Samus also steal any objects with the Grapple beam to prevent revival?

 

[missingnomaster]

what makes the Nova Beam so confusing?

 

[Alphatron]

Missed another Kirby fight, it seems.

Samus curbstomps.

 

[Ganonsburg]

That just sounds like the Pokedex then. And I know how much you people hate the Pokedex for not following the game. If it says Samus can go at X speed, and she goes at Y speed, we use Y speed because we're talking about what is actually in the game.

 

[Kewkky]

The thing with the pokedex is that it says pokemon can 'move mountains (machamp I think?', but in the game, nothing of the sort ever happens, and with that force, they still lose against pokemon with weaker stats. Samus uses the speed booster and moves fast, which is a step up from the pokedex thing: she actually tries doing what it says. If she would actually run at the speed of sound, it would ruin the gameplay, so they dumbed it down to make it manageable.

 

[ph00tbag]

And I'm saying Luigi defends while Samus gets close or against Samus' weapons and her speed booster.

Luigi defends while Samus gets close

while Samus gets close

Samus gets close

Samus close

wut‏‏‏‏‏‏‏

 

[Crystanium]

what makes the Nova Beam so confusing?

It's a "high-frequency" beam. What does "high-frequency" mean? Is Samus firing radio waves, gamma rays? It's just there.

 

[missingnomaster]

The high frequency in the description supports it being so lethal when it hits a target's brain.

The only thing confusing about the Nova Beam to me is the way it acts with the X-Ray Visor.

 

[Samochan]

The thing with the pokedex is that it says pokemon can 'move mountains (machamp I think?', but in the game, nothing of the sort ever happens, and with that force, they still lose against pokemon with weaker stats. Samus uses the speed booster and moves fast, which is a step up from the pokedex thing: she actually tries doing what it says. If she would actually run at the speed of sound, it would ruin the gameplay, so they dumbed it down to make it manageable.

Things mentioned in the pokedex DO happen, but as you said, gameplay is dumbed down to be manageable. I believe it would be very... tough to do ingame scenes and things for 493 pokes. >_>; But such amazing things like Arceus being the creator of universe, dialga and palkia controlling space and time, Gyara & the Lake of Rage incident, Celebi being a time traveler, Groudon and Kyogre controlling land and ocean, Machop, Machoke and Vigoroth being used as loaders because of their strenght, eevee evolding into Glaceon and Leafeon via special stones in Sinnoh region, Deoxys changing forms when you touch a meteorite, Regigigas being found from Snowpoint ruins cause he was sealed there due to it's strenght, Fossil pokemons needing to be revived... quite a lot of ingame support for pokedex, alongside all the game text + library. Heck, pokemon can even die, but they never do in battles. >_>;

It should be other way around, battling system contradicting the pokedex lol. xP

Dryn, on MP2: echoes you always collect an item from the Ing you defeat and on this scenario you get Annihilator beam from Quadraxis (Ing controlled quadraxis, but ing don't have nor use the Luminoth beam weapons, supporting that Quadraxis had the annihilator beam). Quadraxis also has this nasty weapon where he targets you for a while, then let's loose some very quick attack you can't even see, but which messes your HUD and vision, aka stunning you. That sounds like annihilator beam properties. Some enemies on Echoes also use the items/it's properties you can aquire from them, such as Bomb, Boost and Space jump guardian and after you defeate them, they drop the weapon in question. On quadraxis case it's fairly clear it's speaking of annihilator beam weaponry, as it's refered as matter-antimatter beam on occasions (light & dark beams, dark beam opens up rifts in space, supporting it being the antimatter beam weapon, alongside Quadraxis being Luminoth technology and it's using Luminoth weapons and dark beam is luminoth beam weapon they invented).

 

[Crystanium]

Dryn, on MP2: echoes you always collect an item from the Ing you defeat and on this scenario you get Annihilator beam from Quadraxis (Ing controlled quadraxis, but ing don't have nor use the Luminoth beam weapons, supporting that Quadraxis had the annihilator beam). Quadraxis also has this nasty weapon where he targets you for a while, then let's loose some very quick attack you can't even see, but which messes your HUD and vision, aka stunning you. That sounds like annihilator beam properties. Some enemies on Echoes also use the items/it's properties you can aquire from them, such as Bomb, Boost and Space jump guardian and after you defeate them, they drop the weapon in question. On quadraxis case it's fairly clear it's speaking of annihilator beam weaponry, as it's refered as matter-antimatter beam on occasions (light & dark beams, dark beam opens up rifts in space, supporting it being the antimatter beam weapon, alongside Quadraxis being Luminoth technology and it's using Luminoth weapons and dark beam is luminoth beam weapon they invented).

The Annihilator Beam is just weird. It's a mix of light and dark energy. Then it's matter and anti-matter. Then it's sound. None of this makes any sense. Oh, and I don't see how using the Dark beam to open a rift in space supports it being anti-matter. If anti-matter comes in contact with matter, the two annihilate each other. It's just dark energy. Maybe when it's being used in the Annihilator Beam, it's anti-matter. And that matter-anti-matter blast from Quadraxis should have killed Samus instantly.

 

[Samochan]

Well she doesn't get killed by anything else that should have killed her either. <_<

Phazon, lava, terminal fall... you name it. Chozo seem to make real durable force fields, but as it's only energy, it cannot take real damage onto it's structure I guess.

Getting real scientific with metroid weapons doesn't help much though, she in overall makes little sense (lol morph ball).