Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[Lovely]

Kirby vs. Sonic

Sonic can get to kirby in less than a second, super or not, and if kirby gets hit, sonic has enough speed to folllow up and finish him. Kirby can start the battle with an ability, correct? If he doesn't start with stone, sonic can transform and then ram him as super sonic. If he starts with stone, sonic can charge at him, and just wait. If kirby goes out of stone and switches abilities to actually attack, he gets frozen in time and gets owned. He really doesnt have a viable option besides stone. Sonic doesnt have to go super if kirby starts with stone.

Kirby can start with an ability but he can instantly transforms into another ability while he's Stone, or Metal Kirby and that takes less than a second with Super Copy Ability or the bubbles in his stomach, if he transforms into Spark Kirby for example if Sonic attacks him, (most of Sonic's attacks are rolling up to a ball and crashing his body to things), Sonic will be electrocuted because Kirby can attack instantly out of his out of his transformation and Spark Kirby has no blind spots when he's covered with electricity unless a character is a tank and can take being electrocuted. And for Sonic to freeze time, he would need to collect 60 rings to do so, unless there's any rings in the battle field, Sonic can't freeze time, he can't freeze time with the Chaos Emerald either, he can only teleport or transform into his Super forms, Shadow can freeze time with and without the Chaos Emerald. Unless there's rings in the battle field and Sonic collects 60 of them, he's is at a disadvantage if he's normal. Sonic can only have a chance if he's Super.

So I've been reading about the Kirby match-up and no one has mentioned that in his games Kirby has to get hit 6 time before he dies. They also can't be rapid fire machine gun its either since he gains a period of invulnerability directly afterward that outlasts the hitstun that he suffers.

Are you sure? It's a really long thread because I've seen it more than 4 or 5 times. ;p

Kirby Super Star, Kirby Squeak Squad and Kirby Air Ride Kirby has a heath bar. Kirby Dreamland 3, Kirby & The Amazing Mirror, (I kind of dislike saying the US names of these game T_T), Kirby has more than 6 vitality bars unlike some of his other titles. Choosing which one to use is depending on what game should we base off I think.

 

[Rkey]

@WhatIsRaizen?:

good job man : ) More things make sense now, which means progress will likely be less backtracked.

So I've been reading about the Kirby match-up and no one has mentioned that in his games Kirby has to get hit 6 time before he dies. They also can't be rapid fire machine gun its either since he gains a period of invulnerability directly afterward that outlasts the hitstun that he suffers.

Is this not game mechanics, with invulnerability after being hit? I reckon most characters in video games have it.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

What do we have on the match-up so far guys?

 

[REL38]

Allowed

All weapons (swords, lances, axes, guns, knifes, bombs, rods).

All equipment (radars, sensers, armor & shield, any sort of clothing).

All items/food (berries, pokeballs, triforce, potions, collection items, power-ups).

All Vehicles (space ships, cars, machines, sea ships).

Wishing (whether with the use of a item or not, wishing is allowed).

TMs (Pokemons are able to obtain TMs by themselves, thus allowed them).


Restrictions

Wishing to win (while wishing is allowed, wishing to win is simply banned).

Super Sonic (Sonic can stay super for 2 hours, 46 minutes and 30 seconds, it's explained why in this post).


I'm going to add this to the front page, hope this stops some questions from arising. I'll add/edit more, the more we move along.

You just made Bowser broken
He also just beat Mewtwo and all of his future MU's.

@MU

I'm sure Spark Kirby is the one to go with.
In Kirby Super Star Ultra, it creates a field of electricity that protects from all energy based attacks. This protects Kirby from the Arwings laser blasts and only has him worrying about possible bombs as they explode, but that's where Candy Pop protects as well as the Warp Star's manuverability.

Kirby shoots electric blasts while using the Candy Pop along with the Warp Star shooting stars and he'll take down the Arwing.

 

[PowerBomb]

Invulnerability after getting hit is a game mechanic. Nothing to canonically explain why that happens.

Crash Kirby doesn't OHKO stronger enemies that are around his relative size (kinda bigger, maybe 1-2 feet tall). An Arwing, I'm assuming, is pretty big. So would Kirby down it in one shot? No, I don't think so. Maybe in several shots perhaps, but not one.

Since Crash doesn't blow Fox up to oblivion, Fox can shoot down Kirby during the lag of Crash. However, the damage dealt depends on which Kirby health system is being used. The Amazing Mirror one has 9 bars of HP, and he can lose two HP bars at times, while Kirby: Squeak Squad has a single, long bar of HP, which can drain depending on the strength of the attack. No idea about KSStar.

 

[REL38]

@Powerbomb

Kirby uses Crash ability while he's invincible with Candy Pop.
This eliminates possibility of being damaged from the lag.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Invulnerability after getting hit is a game mechanic. Nothing to canonically explain why that happens.

Crash Kirby doesn't OHKO stronger enemies that are around his relative size (kinda bigger, maybe 1-2 feet tall). An Arwing, I'm assuming, is pretty big. So would Kirby down it in one shot? No, I don't think so. Maybe in several shots perhaps, but not one.

Since Crash doesn't blow Fox up to oblivion, Fox can shoot down Kirby during the lag of Crash. However, the damage dealt depends on which Kirby health system is being used. The Amazing Mirror one has 9 bars of HP, and he can lose two HP bars at times, while Kirby: Squeak Squad has a single, long bar of HP, which can drain depending on the strength of the attack. No idea about KSStar.

Isn't Crash suppose to be mentally powerful?

Invulnerability after getting hit is a game mechanic. Nothing to canonically explain why that happens.

I agree.

 

[missingnomaster]

I think Kirby can only have one Crash, since the ability is absent in Squeak Squad, and therefore Kirby cannot hold more in his stomach.

 

[PowerBomb]

@Powerbomb

Kirby uses Crash ability while he's invincible with Candy Pop.
This eliminates possibility of being damaged from the lag.

Well then. Very cool.

Isn't Crash suppose to be mentally powerful?

Uh, no...

I don't think so.

I think Kirby can only have one Crash, since the ability is absent in Squeak Squad, and therefore Kirby cannot hold more in his stomach.

But, are we sure? Were there any limitations on the Magic Ability, which can be used 'like' (one-time use) Crash?

 

[BSP]

Kirby is so cute Fox crashes down just to take a closer look at him. =D

Erm....

Spoiler

This is a joke btw.

To me, unlimited invincibility for sonic seems very iffy. How does it work on those sonic games where you get it? I can't imagine sonic could be invincible for unlimited time after you collect rings, that would make a real boring gameplay if you were to just get rings, bam go super sonic, breeze through the game in super like it was nothing. <_> Maybe wikipedia has some answers to this.

Undefined doesn't mean unlimited amount however. I could have undefined amount of money on my pockets and you wouldn't know, but it's not infinitely.

That paragraph leads me to believe that the ring count is a game mech, not a real limit, just to keep the game interesting.

Man, gotta load to respond to, how do you quote more than one thing in a post?

@Raizen

There's still unleashed sonic and chronicles sonic, and neither are restricted by a ring count. There is also the ending form sonic advance that shows he doesnt need rings ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HyzdULKcO0
). The cutscene even says 'a few days later' and sonic is still super sonic when he appears. And 999 is not Sonic's ring max, look at the vid i posted (down below). His limit is currently undefined. That post can be ignored, but i changed it anyway.

@ Justaway

Sonic is super in the extra zone in Sonic Advance, did you see the vid i posted? The cutscene even says 'a few days later', and i explained that there are no rings in space, at least on the moon. (and if he had one rings left, he 'has' one second to find more, but nothing happens, he stays super for a few days.) and sonic comes from the sky and he is still super.

And you pointing out that, in unleashed, he's in the earth's crust helps my point even more. It takes one ring every 10 seconds just to resist extreme heat, and in these matches, he's on a nuetral battlefield. 360 unleashed, he still doesnt lose his rings.

@ Lovely

Sonic starts the match at max rings, which is not 999, it's undefined right now, unless someone can find a vid or hack unleashed to see how many he can carry. He has plenty to use time stopping, which will always work unless kirby is mid invincibility (he'd have to stone at the beginning, then if he changes, and time doesnt stop, game mech, sonic just dodges the attack and freezes him then.) He can only carry 5 invincible candies, and that's if he sacrifices room for abilities. All sonic has to do is stall his invincibility and then freeze him.

If kirby does metal to spark like you said, how does he defend himself from a time stop or super sonic? He could use candy (that's two stomach spaces, since he went to spark and then used candy.). Basically, if kirby isn't metal, how does he defend himself from a time stop? besides spamming candy, which he can only have 5 at max, if he doesnt use any other abilities.

@Everyone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr6L-oh4tvo breaks 999 at about 7:40

Sonic can carry more than 999 rings. How do we figure out his max now?

 

[missingnomaster]

But, are we sure? Were there any limitations on the Magic Ability, which can be used 'like' (one-time use) Crash?

Well, it's a lot harder to imagine its range, since it just effects everything on the screen without much of an animation.

It doesn't take quite as long as I thought it does, it's probably around as slow as Crash.

Also, are you specifically referring to the one that defeats enemies, or including the ones that turn enemies into items?

 

[PowerBomb]

Well, it's a lot harder to imagine its range, since it just effects everything on the screen without much of an animation.

It doesn't take quite as long as I thought it does, it's probably around as slow as Crash.

Also, are you specifically referring to the one that defeats enemies, or including the ones that turn enemies into items?

I was referring to the roulette wheel, since it sacrifices the Magic ability for an effect. One-time use, like Crash.

 

[missingnomaster]

I was referring to the roulette wheel, since it sacrifices the Magic ability for an effect. One-time use, like Crash.

So was I. There are various slots on the wheel. Not all of them defeat enemies, either. I know theres one that starts an ability roulette wheel.

 

[PowerBomb]

So was I. There are various slots on the wheel. Not all of them defeat enemies, either. I know theres one that starts an ability roulette wheel.

Oh, gotcha.

So, since Kirby's stomach can hold abilities that can be one-time use, can he hold Crash in his stomach?

Or since Crash isn't available as a stomach bubble, it can't be used as one?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Crash isn't avoidable, and it should most likely take down Fox's Arwing.

Now, in a face to face combat, I'm not sure who has the upper hand. I'm sure Fox is pretty good without the Arwing too.

 

[missingnomaster]

Kirby would have no way of turning Crash into a bubble to carry.

Unless he in theory could explore one of the games with Crash enemies while having the Bubble ability, but then it really starts getting confusing....

 

[Ray_Kalm]

He can start off with it.

The non-squeak squad version.

 

[PowerBomb]

Crash isn't avoidable, and it should most likely take down Fox's Arwing.

Now, in a face to face combat, I'm not sure who has the upper hand. I'm sure Fox is pretty good without the Arwing too.

I disagree about this.

Crash doesn't OHKO all enemies that are around Kirby's size in his games. Why would it OHKO the Arwing?

 

[missingnomaster]

He can start off with it.

The non-squeak squad version.

I know he can start with it, it's just carrying more than one that becomes a problem.

I really don't think 1 will be enough to take out the Arwing. It can survive a laser from a machine that is said to be used to pierce the crust of planets...

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Arwings never really had much HP in any Star Fox game, and especially Fox's in general. Crash really should be able to take it down, and with 3 uses, I think it will.

 

[missingnomaster]

Planet crust-piercing laser > Crash

You're thinking of Mike, Crash is only one use.


Size really is an issue here. It would be pretty easy for Fox to stay out of range of Crash and shoot at Kirby.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

New MU soon.

 

[BSP]

That paragraph leads me to believe that the ring count is a game mech, not a real limit, just to keep the game interesting.

Man, gotta load to respond to, how do you quote more than one thing in a post?

@Raizen

There's still unleashed sonic and chronicles sonic, and neither are restricted by a ring count. There is also the ending form sonic advance that shows he doesnt need rings ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HyzdULKcO0
). The cutscene even says 'a few days later' and sonic is still super sonic when he appears. And 999 is not Sonic's ring max, look at the vid i posted (down below). His limit is currently undefined. That post can be ignored, but i changed it anyway.

@ Justaway

Sonic is super in the extra zone in Sonic Advance, did you see the vid i posted? The cutscene even says 'a few days later', and i explained that there are no rings in space, at least on the moon. (and if he had one rings left, he 'has' one second to find more, but nothing happens, he stays super for a few days.) and sonic comes from the sky and he is still super.

And you pointing out that, in unleashed, he's in the earth's crust helps my point even more. It takes one ring every 10 seconds just to resist extreme heat, and in these matches, he's on a nuetral battlefield. 360 unleashed, he still doesnt lose his rings.

@ Lovely

Sonic starts the match at max rings, which is not 999, it's undefined right now, unless someone can find a vid or hack unleashed to see how many he can carry. He has plenty to use time stopping, which will always work unless kirby is mid invincibility (he'd have to stone at the beginning, then if he changes, and time doesnt stop, game mech, sonic just dodges the attack and freezes him then.) He can only carry 5 invincible candies, and that's if he sacrifices room for abilities. All sonic has to do is stall his invincibility and then freeze him.

If kirby does metal to spark like you said, how does he defend himself from a time stop or super sonic? He could use candy (that's two stomach spaces, since he went to spark and then used candy.). Basically, if kirby isn't metal, how does he defend himself from a time stop? besides spamming candy, which he can only have 5 at max, if he doesnt use any other abilities.

@Everyone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr6L-oh4tvo breaks 999 at about 7:40

Sonic can carry more than 999 rings. How do we figure out his max now?

This is moving really fast, and i have some replies/questions here, want to make sure they are seen. And i figured how to multiquote, which should save some time.

BTW, raizen, you need to change the first page. Sonic's ring max isn't 999, it's currently unknown.

 

[PowerBomb]

Arwings can also have an extended health bar (they can start out with this, iirc).

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Confused Mike with Crash, eh.

Ignore what I said.

 

[PowerBomb]

So this is turning into an advantage for Fox, but I'd like to address Warp Star + Metal tactic. Is the Warp Star fast enough to keep up with the Arwing?

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Vs.

Current Match-Up:
THE PSYCHIC Vs. THE MASKED STRANGER

Lucas Vs. Metaknight

Vs.

Round 4, Match 7.

 

[missingnomaster]

It is not likely. Plus, barrel rolls could probably deal with the stars. And the Warp Star would probably get shot down pretty often, forcing Kirby to call another one.


Lucas could wreck the Halberd pretty effectively, if only he had a way of getting on it.

In before Clinton brings in some time and space mumbo jumbo.

 

[PowerBomb]

Lucas wins. He can stall out MK and uh...

Well, if he see's MK, Love can hit for massive damage.

 

[BSP]

It is not likely. Plus, barrel rolls could probably deal with the stars. And the Warp Star would probably get shot down pretty often, forcing Kirby to call another one.


Lucas could wreck the Halberd pretty effectively, if only he had a way of getting on it.

Yeah, can Lucas get on the Halberd? He can't fly or teleport, and none of his vehicles fly IIRC.

But Lucas can counter lasers and missles...would the damage go to MK or the Halberd? Don't count Lucas out yet.

Still waiting on replies btw for infinite super sonic. How did MK draw with Sonic again? Sonic's rings max is unknown now, so he has X amount of time to thrash halberd and chase MK down, while still having time stops.

Back to infinite Super Sonic

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there has not been a single explanation/booklet that expalins why sonic has to keep collecting rings to maintain super form. Keeps sounding more and more like a game mechanic.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ Wow, Kirby get's a lost?! So this is what is like when ★Viper isn't around, he is not going to be pleased. xD †

♪ Lucas is a non hat wearing pansy compare to Ness, so auto win for Meta Knight..... but Lucas could win if he can read Meta Knight's attack movements, but someone with a sword can't be predicted well and could kill if not noticed. †

 

[Rkey]

♪ Wow, Kirby get's a lost?! So this is what is like when ★Viper isn't around, he is not going to be pleased. xD †

♪ Lucas is a non hat wearing pansy compare to Ness, so auto win for Meta Knight..... but Lucas could win if he can read Meta Knight's attack movements, but someone with a sword can't be predicted well and could kill if not noticed. †

That is indeed interesting, when we are talking a match, are we talking showdowns like the ones in smash? Because if characters like Snake were allowed to assasinate, some matchups would have turned out differently for sure. Someone state this clearly please.

 

[HailCrest]

Lifeup gamma restores all of lucas' HP

PK Love omega does massive damage to all enemies i.e. MK AND his ship

PK Flash makes MK cry/become numb/die instantly

Lucas has a Franklin Badge.

Defense Up Alpha will reduce MK's attacking ability with his sword to nothing

His physical attacking ability is second to none in the games because of the Mystical Stick, bolstered further by Offense Up Alpha

Refresh will regen 10% HP for five turns

Healing Gamma removes any and all status effects

To me MK only has stuff going for offense, with a huge halberd and his sword

But Lucas both has offensive and defensive, and restorative capabilities

 

[Lord Viper]

6.) Fox Vs. Kirby: -1 Kirby. +1 Fox.

Summarized Reason: Crash Kirby doesn't OHKO stronger enemies that are around his relative size (kinda bigger, maybe 1-2 feet tall). An Arwing, I'm assuming, is pretty big. So would Kirby down it in one shot? No, I don't think so. Maybe in several shots perhaps, but not one. Since Crash doesn't blow Fox up to oblivion, Fox can shoot down Kirby during the lag of Crash. However, the damage dealt depends on which Kirby health system is being used. The Amazing Mirror one has 9 bars of HP, and he can lose two HP bars at times, while Kirby: Squeak Squad has a single, long bar of HP, which can drain depending on the strength of the attack. No idea about KSStar.

☆ Looks like your banging your judge hammer a little too fast Raizen. You have to look at Kirby's size, and look at the size of the other Kirby eneimes in his game, (Whipsy Wood or Dyna Blade for example, they are much much bigger than a little 1-2 feet), and Crash still does at least half or almost half the damage to the bosses. It's too risky for Fox to shoot down Kirby if Kirby uses Mirror because Kirby will reflect the lasers right back at him, even if Fox throw out his Smart Bomb, it's still reflectable, and the Mirror shield will protect Kirby. If Kirby want's to rival Fox in the air, Kirby will uses his Star Ship to fight Fox in the air. Let's not forget, Kirby took down a Galactic Overlord with that ship. Sure Kirby can use his Warp Star to, it goes faster than Fox's Arwing because it can easily go pass the atmosphere with no problem while Fox has to prepare to go to the atmosphere. ☆

☆ So let's see the current battle, if Kirby were to use his Mirror power, he can use his Mirror shield to reflect all of Fox's lasers and his Smart Bomb's, (unless it's Star Fox Command's Smart Bomb's, then Kirby just has to block it or dodge it). Kirby can stoot stars out of his Ship and Warp Star which goes really fast and can perform a good amount of damage, (the same as the Star Rod from Kirby Adventure), Fox's Arwing will be destroyed unless he just tries to hold out and find a weak spot, good luck with that. So with his Arwing limited, and his on foot options are very limited, I'm sure you know where I'm getting at. ☆

 

[_clinton]

By the way, I already knew what a sonic boom was. I just failed to see how "invincible" means "sonic boom." It just does not work.
"These boots allow Samus to run at a super high speed and make her invincible as she runs through enemies."
Taking that information and replacing "invincible" with "sonic boom" is silly.
"These boots allow Samus to run at a super high speed and makes her sonic boom as she runs through enemies."
"Invincible" is not synonymous with "sonic boom." If she didn't become invincible, it should just have said, "These boots allow Samus to run at supersonic speeds as she runs through her enemies."

You see this is why Super Metroid's description can't be trusted...there isn't much data there...which is a big issue for a game that is trying to give info on what Samus' abilities are...

And a "Sonic boom" is just what is happening when supersonic speed is reached...which again...is what the other ones say...

The other games can be trusted...for one...Supersonic speed is a hell of a lot more descriptive than "super fast"

That's okay, but C.Falcon can only use things he uses in the games he's in.

Falcon has been shown to fight several people at one time…

Famous bounty hunter or not, there are cutscenes in F Zero GCN and there Falcon didn't fight either. Thus, Falcon doesn't get the Falcon Punch from the anime. Or other things besides his Blue Falcon.

There is in game descriptions from F-Zero GX that say Falcon can Falcon punch though according to another post…

Plus considering how a foe that uses black magic/ect. And makes a clone of Falcon won’t fight him head on says something about Falcon’s power if you ask me…

Speed Booster is an actual ability of Samus, the verhiles Ness and Lucas ride in aren't. They are just there. That they run down and kill enemies in Mother 3 might probably be a game mechanic, cause it'd be hard to fight while on those verhiles, and it'd slow you down.

It’s sort of funny…because the vehicles that Ness and Lucas have do belong to them (or in Lucas’ case he has two for sure that do…but with Ness all of them do belong to him end game) so that is one thing you have wrong…

Plus it’s hardly a game mech. Most of the foes you fight in that area are packing serious fire power…yet they fall w/o any issue…

Remember…two of the things Lucas uses are made by the Mr. Saturn race…which is a race of people who build things that can travel through time and space freely…

While we're at it... Can the Kongs get their animal buddies then?

Last I checked…Lucas’ vehicles aren’t living thinking beings…or at least for sure 2 of them aren’t…

Anime based of games would still reflect the games a lot wouldn't you think?

>_>
The point you guys are making for anime being banned is because it isn’t reflecting game canon in the 1st place…

Which is funny…because again…we have games that are based off an anime ^_^

But we aren't counting anime, comics, news paper articles or anything. Just games.

Yeah…because it’s a different source of material…yet you are hardly counting every game still man…

Lucas is just screwed by his game's bad ending. I'll leave it at that.

No he isn’t…your thoughts on Lucas’ power being in descriptive are by farfetched…
1. It protected the island from the end of the world
2. Just to absorb it destroyed the island it was protecting…which is again…a reference to Mother 2 (because the land there again becomes non special)

The Triforce of Courage is Link's birthright in TP. Same goes for Zelda in most cases. Ganondorf got his Triforce of Power in OoT, and kept it in TP and WW. It never left him ever since he got in the Sacred Realm. Ganondorf clearly has all rights to have his Triforce of Power, it's what made him that powerful throughout all the Zelda games. <_<

Same for Link, but he and Zelda can still be defeated by normal means so nothing to worry about there.

This is funny…because the only reason Link and Zelda have their power is because Ganondorf got there 1st…it’s hardly a birthright at all…

The power left them in WW when they were returned together…that sure sounds like some birthright huh?

Would be the same logic as if Lucas got an older brother, he and Claus would be pretty useless in Mother 3...

No offense…but a bunch of 10,000+ year old master psychic’s being unable to use Lucas’ and Claus’ power is by far more impressive than “1st one, 1st served”

Robbed means he still has it, he actually robbed it himself. It's part of the game plot, so yes Bowser should get it therefore.
That he loses it in the end is a better arguement here.

Still want to know how Bowser is going to beat a psychic who is using a power that protected from the end of everything, and allows him to create, destroy, and change things at his will…

I was just fooling you there, don't take it too serious. I know why you think "PKTIME&SPACECONTROLZ" it's cause the enemies in Mother come from a different time, and Ness and Lucas beat them therefore you assume Ness and Lucas have control over it, while space and time control aren't mentioned in any fight in both games, neither on the overworld map except the teleporting of the Starmen.

I like how you saved this part of your reply…yet failed to relook at the other part of my reply for my real reason for them having it (you know when I explained how something like PK Fire would be performed)

Space and Time control are mentioned actually as well I might add…if you think Teleport isn’t some form of space control I’m sorry for you…and starstorm itself it the ultimate psychic power of a being that can stop time I might add…because again…that is how the 6th needle is guarded…

There is a clock enemy in Earthbound who does stop the time though. But for the rest, no mention... only that Giygas send them, Giygas might very well be the reason why they travel through space and time. He probably has send them.

No…you should probably look into what starstorm is if you think it’s just Giygas that is sending the foes…
Also…they are moving freely for their movement…do you think Giygas is just controlling them 100% of the time? They are psychic as well you know…

You might very well be right here.

The fact that you left the other part of the post above this reply makes me wonder if you really did get what this means…

Stop Watch works. Theres this clock enemy in Earthbound who stops the time, and Ness is effected. Ness will be effected by the Stop Watch. Period.

A. The foe that stops time is a reprehensive of Giygas’ power…because remember…Moonside is a product of the Mani Mani…and the Mani Mani is a product of Giygas’ power (look up what Mani Mani means anyway why don’t you)
B. Ness’ powers are the same as Giygas’ in a way…which is the reason why Giygas is afraid of him in the 1st place…
C. Giygas himself is a parody of a god of chaos (Lovecraftian god Azathoth actually)
D. That foe fails at stopping Ness…what does that tell you?

It's just shaped as a orange, as in comic relief.

K…still…how is a grenade stronger than a machine that can take speeds going past the speed of sound?

Diddy could also beat Falcon by playing the guitar as I mentioned there. If Falcon would knock Diddy away with the Blue Falcon (but no damage of for Going Bananas) he would have a hard time locating Diddy again, thus likely wouldn't drive at full speed searching for him. If Diddy hit Falcon with the guitar's blast, he'd likely lose control and crash. If he'd survive, Diddy beats him from there.

Here is my issue with Going Bananas…you are using basic game mechs from one game to defend Diddy…if you really think he is invincible while using Going Bananas…than why don’t you prove it by showing proof that he can take this hit from the Blue Falcon/Falcon Flyer…because last I checked…protecting someone from a bee sting was a bit easier than taking a hit from a car ramming you at 700 MPH!

Plus…Going Bananas is only in King of Swing IIRC and costs 20 bananas to use as well…how many bananas do you think he is packing with him? God….it varies per game with what he can take with him…

Plus…I’ve never seen Diddy play his guitar and use Going Bananas at the same time…so…how come he can now?

Also…What proof do you have that Falcon will die from him playing a guitar? Last I checked…playing music on bosses doesn’t do any damage at all…so…for powerful foes…it’s worthless…hell…I’m pretty sure it’s worthless on certain normal foes as well…

With your logic applied, Diddy's peanuts hit as hard as bullets. Awesome. =) Now, how did Captain Falcon beat an invincible shotta chimp again?

So…we are going to using this to decide things then huh? I’m ok with that…

Well in that case…please explain to me why Lucas can’t use PK Fire again even though all evidence proves he should be able to use it? (such as PSI being teachable if you can learn it…and Lucas is a master along with Ness…hell there is evidence that Ness should be using PK Fire, Freeze, and Thunder as well if you look at game canon…certain foes made from Ness’ mind use them…but whatever)

Also…what’s better IYO…A laser gun held by a bounty hunter who strikes fear into “criminal scum” or two pistils head by a chimp who gets beat up in his 1st appearance and stuffed into a barrel?

Like It or not…Falcon has the tech. side on his side…that is a big plus…

Chances are he is also wearing some armor to protect himself from bullet wounds…he is a bounty hunter you know…

 

[_clinton]

Before I go on I would like to point out something from this post:

This further proves the point that Samus IS invincible while in Speed Booster, unless sonicbooms also push away the particles that comprise the opponent when Samus meets them, which still means she's invincible since she can't be hurt by ANYTHING.

2nd one actually…and she can be hurt by things…something just has to stop her mate…it’s pretty much the same idea behind Sonic…

This is the problem with you comparing Samus who lives in a Sci-fi setting to real world settings...even though the Metroid universe tries to make sense with their equipment and they actually do take reference from some things for everything they have (look them up) and that is why the thought of “invincibility” in a Metroid game is BS…because they do have reasoning behind their thing…

However, they still are in a future world…comparing things like Samus’ equipment to a plane is sort of funny…one is more prepared to move at those types of speeds and stop suddenly as well…

Samus can stop and run into things…because she is somehow prepared for it…but look at how our things are designed…they aren’t prepared for that…in fact…they have to be built right just to move at that speed…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_(physics)

Naturally…if you get the picture there shown at the start of that article…then you should understand that they aren’t made for a sudden stop…

Anyway…I’ve already responding to some of your other things in the last post…so…In regard to the Samus vs. Lucas fight…
Defense up psi, power shield psi, king’s gear equipment, and the Franklin badge…this is the defensive set I’m thinking…
Samus only fights using phys. means only…therefore worrying about any mental assault is pointless and you only have to worry about a physical assault

The power shield has been shown to protect vs. beam based/laser based weapons itself w/o any issue…if the wave beam/plasma beam is so powerful and passes though things/foes…then how come it doesn’t WTFPWN something like Ridley/whatever boss with just normal shots? Usually In order to get through him you usually need a “charge shot or some missile” because they are in theory at least…more protected than the grunt foes…

I don’t see how it would be any different for Lucas’ psychic barriers…which really seem stronger than any armor IMO anyway…

The power shield protects from and pays back any physical pain Lucas gets…defense up with full power gives Lucas the same protection as a power shield normally or at least close enough to it…Lucas isn’t going to feel **** from Samus’ normal weapons…

The Franklin Badge has been shown to protect from lethal weaponry from lasers/beams besides just any electric attacks…but whatever…

The King’s gear equipment that Lucas can only wear provides protection from every element with one of them…So…factoring in Lucas’ naturally stronger elemental defense (in game). If Samus wants to actually do any damage…I’m pretty sure she is going to have to take the Ice, Plasma, and Wave beams off her beam combo…

Lucas isn’t shy to being hit by explosives and missiles…and the power shield/defense up also protects from those things…hell he is also packing those things…plus certain chemical weapons as well…but that is a different topic…

I don’t see why the power shield wouldn’t protect Lucas from being ran over by a moving freight train like Samus using said speed booster as well…in fact…I think it would be like running into said wall of spikes because of how the power shield works…

Phazon radiation side effects can be cured from healing psi…and Lucas’ power shield should also bounce said damage back…and as seen in MP3: certain things can repel the Hyper mode…

Anyway for Lucas causing harm to Samus…He has an unblockable wave of Psychokinetic energy as well as just using telepathic powers to cause mental harm…along with a phys. attack that breaks though things pretty well as well I might add…

Of course…canon wise…Lucas could have destroyed the world with his power if he wanted to…where as Samus hasn’t been shown to naturally destroy a world yet using her power…how about that?

Lucas is a non hat wearing pansy compare to Ness, so auto win for Meta Knight..... but Lucas could win if he can read Meta Knight's attack movements, but someone with a sword can't be predicted well and could kill if not noticed.

Lucas can read minds...plus I like how you think a sword user is a threat to Lucas...god...Lucas' brother is only welding "lightning speed" swordman fighting skills + expert precision aiming with gun skills + being able to fly + throwing bombs oh and he is also a master psychokinetic psychic as well...god I can't forget that...

Plus...I like how people think Lucas/Ness can levitate with their psychic powers...god...a good % of their foes can and are using ranged weaponry in both of their games...how do you think they where able to fight them because of that if they didn't have some advanced movement skills?

 

[BSP]

Ok, im with Clinton on all the info about Lucas' protection against samus' weapontry. But samus' invincibility isnt like sonic's, since she has to be moving for it to take effect. I find it somewhat hard to believe that Lucas could destroy the world though, or that claus is wielding a lightning fast sword, does the game actually say that?

In general, i think we are going a little too fast on some matchups. Can we slow down a little?

I still think sonic should get infinite super sonic. I've shown three examples of where he doesn't need to collect rings. I can actually explain all, and the ring count has yet to get an explanation. We even agreed that things that don't have an explanation are game mechs. and ring count is one of them, it hasn't been explained. Again, sonic's ring max isn't 999, stilll unknown.

 

[_clinton]

But samus' invincibility isnt like sonic's, since she has to be moving for it to take effect.

Samus' invincibility isn't invincibility at all...how is moving at supersonic speed invincibility? It's just very good protection...which isn't going to do much to help...because psychic powers "don't follow rules" to begin with for how they work anyway...

I personally think it is pretty good protection for anything she runs into that isn't nailed to the ground though...just saying

Hell...I question Super Sonic's invincibility as well...he has been shown to "be hurt" when under it (Sonic Advanced shows that he can be frozen for example...and have his energy drained...plus he can been crushed/drown in water somehow in the 1st games to use him...plus Knuckles has shown that if you can control the chaos emeralds energy somehow...for example in his case with the master emerald...because that thing has been shown to **** with the chaos emeralds...you can **** up Super Sonic's power)

Still...I'll admit with you that they aren't that clear on how long he can truly last in Super Sonic...one of the games he is in shows Sonic being under Super form for 2+ days...

http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/gba/a/sonis.htm

Of course...I wonder if that game is canon anyway...

So I'm thinking Sonic can hold the form as long as he can avoid "straining himself that much" (as in avoid "work")

For example...Sonic Adventure 2 is an example where the characters strain themselves...and are constantly taking pit stops in that fight...to the point where Shadow is screwed at some point (and should have died IMO)

Sonic Advanced 2 is another example I can think of with Sonic losing his powers after being under enough stress:

http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/gba/b/son2sp.htm

(and I have no issue at all with thinking that is canon...considering that is where Cream comes into the series)

So...IMO unless the other person Sonic is fighting has been shown to screw with energy in some way...or Sonic would have to expel a great deal of force dealing with them...they are ****ed IMO just from Super Sonic...

Of course...what is with this talk about Super Sonic? Has Hyper Sonic truly been thrown out of the series not that good to begin with canon?

I find it somewhat hard to believe that Lucas could destroy the world though, or that claus is wielding a lightning fast sword, does the game actually say that?

Lucas' in game power he is fighting for states that whoever can control it can do whatever the **** they want...

Just with Lucas absorbing it allowed this to happen because the island lost it's protection:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RCZOO5VYI8

As for Claus:
If you are under leveled it can be quite a fun fight...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cGqvHMcWNQ&feature=related

He gets two moves per round...and considering how Duster is the ninja/thief (as in Poo speed at the end of EB) of the party that should say something IMO...

Fun fact: Claus only had the 3rd level of PK Love in that fight...and after that fight and you pulling the needle you get the 4th level...and for the next time you fight him...he has the 4th level...I like how Lucas and Claus are linked...

And just because I feel like it I'm posting this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoGS2RvHqvI&feature=related

 

[justaway12]

That paragraph leads me to believe that the ring count is a game mech, not a real limit, just to keep the game interesting.

Man, gotta load to respond to, how do you quote more than one thing in a post?

Depends on your skin, I think revolution has a "multi" button at the side, classic blue has a notepad, IDK, about smash blue...Ummm, just use that thing by quote.
If you're quote 3 people, press that multi-quote button on two of them, and quote the last one. Hope it made sense

@ Justaway

Sonic is super in the extra zone in Sonic Advance, did you see the vid i posted? The cutscene even says 'a few days later', and i explained that there are no rings in space, at least on the moon. (and if he had one rings left, he 'has' one second to find more, but nothing happens, he stays super for a few days.) and sonic comes from the sky and he is still super.

And you pointing out that, in unleashed, he's in the earth's crust helps my point even more. It takes one ring every 10 seconds just to resist extreme heat, and in these matches, he's on a nuetral battlefield. 360 unleashed, he still doesnt lose his rings.

[/QUOTE]

Read my ast reply again. Cutscenes always break game play when there is a time limit.

OR it's a cutscene and they don't want to spoil it. If a game has a time limit and you get there with 1 second to spare , and a cutscene follows just shortly after, nothing will happen in that cutscene that kills everyone or something or alternitavely, if you have plenty of time to spare, the cutscene could show that character appearing just in the nick of time.

That happens with like every game.

Let me explain, imagine your playing a game, a bomb is going to explode, you have to diffuse it, you get there with 0.001 seconds to spare, a cutscene follows shortly after, yet you don't die.

 

[Samochan]

We've gone over the conversation about Samus already clinton. I really don't see how in the world Lucas could be protected from organic substance such as Phazon when his normal counter deals back physical attacks + lasers (lol) and PSI counter PSI attacks (lol power shield, no such thing as power shield on Mother 3). >_> Phazon is nothing of those. And if some enemy on MP3 is immune to phazon (wait a sec... not), it certainly doesn't mean Lucas is somehow immune as well lol. Among other things, character a capable of doing thing x doesn't mean character b is able to do thing x on default as well.

Again, you are trying to provide fiction as facts. Mother 3 is the game we are actually trying to follow here and gather facts from, not Mother 3 fanfiction. Then you even go out to try to discredit Metroid game mechanics as canon, when you have no proof about their non-factuality whatsoever, just because your fav character lost to Samus and your agenda is to rectify that. If someone is invincible, they are, just like Ganondorf, super sonic, Bowser, lol Mega mushroom Mario&Luigi... Super Metroid and the recurring games are just as good of a source as any other game we are using here.

Get's old really fast imo.