missingnomaster
Smash Lord
One source says Speedbooster is invincible, and the others do not contradict that statement.
Such is not enough to disprove its invincibility.
Such is not enough to disprove its invincibility.
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Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10
- Thread starter WhatIsRaizen?
- Start date
PowerBomb
Smash Master
_clinton, the Wave Beam/Plasma Beam don't usually jack-up every single boss because you get them waaaaaay late into the game, like Fusion.
180 shots of the Super D-Missile to kill Ridley-X, or 15-20 shots of the Wave Beam + Plasma Beam?
180 shots of the Super D-Missile to kill Ridley-X, or 15-20 shots of the Wave Beam + Plasma Beam?
Diddy Kong
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2004
- Messages
- 25,974
- Switch FC
- SW-1597-979602774
Bias
Bias
Mario has been shown to jump on the heads of serveral enemies at once. Hell, he's even so awesome as to actually kill by jumping on the head.
[/bias]
Blue Falcon > Falcon Punch anyway. For all I care, Captain Falcon may Falcon Punch. He'll still get his *** beaten by the same characters as before.
Except that he doesn't use it. He might as well be the best fighter in F Zero universe, but he'll still get beaten by merging other universes into his.
Bias, and a lot of it. You want Lucas to win by running into others with a coffeetable now? <_<
If they pack heavy fire power, why don't they use it on the map? Hence why I said it's a game mechanic.
With the help of Dr.whatshisname.
Bias.
Anime is not being used. Period. Animes tend to overdo things in an extreme way anyways...
I'm only counting what counts? Pro and cons you know...
My thoughts of Lucas' power is what he did in the battles. Which do not impress me all that much. Free control of space and time? I just won't buy **** like that... Why don't you try to defend Lucas with his combos he can pull of??? >_>; Like you know... his actual battle stuff.
Then why did the power come to both Link and Zelda then? Zelda wasn't even there... <_< Besides, other games actually refer to it as "ZOMG LINK ITS UR BIRTRITE TO SAVE DA WORLDZ WITH UR TRIANGLE POWAHZ" so... Yeah, I think I could believe that while playing Zelda...
Extreme bias btw.
Link was refered to as the chosen one before he got the Triforce anyways. And yes, WW did that bad. But it's not as bad as Mother 3's ending, that's for sure.
The Magpys or what ever they are called are gay man.
Through invincibility? It was the reason he won in the first place... <_<
Is it really that bad to not take some things as serious at times?
Teleport, okay. That's some control of space yeah... I guess? Except Lucas doesn't learn it. Only Ness and Poo do. Starstorm also is Poo and Kumatora only.
I don't know, and I don't think going into full detail will solve this.
I get what you mean, but I think you assume to much. Straight facts work more for me.
I played the game.
What?
YOu may be right.
Got me there.
I don't think Lucas should get it no. It's Kumatora's PSI, not Lucas'. It's just that you assume too much behind Mother 3... Even if Lucas possibly could learn those moves, which realistically could be true - it's not shown in game.
But thing is, if you give Lucas his Smash moves, why wouldn't we allow any other character their special moves from Smash. It's said Slippy from StarFox is an inventer right? Why wouldn't he develop Fox and Falco like... real Reflectors. Realistically, he could.
Why wouldn't we allow DK his Spinning Kong, Dixie Kong could use a helicopter spin in DKC why can't DK learn it? Sheik possibly needed some weapons to survive and stay hidden from Ganon for 7 years, why wouldn't we allow her weapons like the needles and sword?
That's why I'm against it. <_< Characters have their certain role in their games, and their equipment and abilities reflect their "personality". It's why you prefer the one character above the other, or something.
The role of Diddy Kong changed within the series a lot. DKC2 is Diddy's own game for example.
Yeah I guess.
Falcon's armor doesnt excist. He wears no armor, he is body painted and likes to put his crotch into peoples face when he knees them.
Depends on your skin, I think revolution has a "multi" button at the side, classic blue has a notepad, IDK, about smash blue...Ummm, just use that thing by quote.
If you're quote 3 people, press that multi-quote button on two of them, and quote the last one. Hope it made sense
Read my ast reply again. Cutscenes always break game play when there is a time limit.
That happens with like every game.
Let me explain, imagine your playing a game, a bomb is going to explode, you have to diffuse it, you get there with 0.001 seconds to spare, a cutscene follows shortly after, yet you don't die.[/QUOTE]
Ok , i see your point. But I still have two examples of infinite invincibility that haven't been countered. And i figured out the multiquote thing, thanks.
Back to Sonic. The ring count has yet to recieve an explanation (from this thread or from an instruction book or a game), so technically, it is a game mechanic right now, according to the thread's rules. It can't be because of Sonic's conditions because he loses one per second in space and while flying, but he loses one per ten seconds while in the extreme heat of the earth's core, it isn't consistent. He still has two instances of infinite super sonic that havent been countered ( unleashed and chronicles).
Anyway, I don't see how samus beats Lucas now.( unless phazon is un-counterable, in which case ignore this)
kirby-verse =/= Sonic-verse
And that's where Justaway may be right, cutscenes are up to debate for canocity (spelling?).
Raizen, you still need to change the first page, Super sonic time limit, if any, is currently undefined since his ring max is undefined. But again, by your rules, the ring count is a game mechanic at this point, and shouldnt be counted.
_clinton, the thing with using facts from the real world, in a discussion made for things STRAIGHT FROM THE GAMES, is that the fiction in the game is perfectly legal, and doesn't have to be backed up by real-life physics. The booklet and in-game explanations are all that should be used (people agreed on using official strategy guides and Wikis as well) in this topic. If you want to talk about particle physics and quantum mechanics to explain some of the particles' behavior when confronted with an object creating a sonic boom, go here. If you want to add real-life stuff, then...
Hurr, Lucas instantly dies, because his head is too big for his thin neck, meaning he will paralyze himself or be immobile due to the weight. D'oy, magic isn't real whereas technology is, and missiles are, so Samus can shoot lucas down while he's stuck to the floor due to his heads' size. Durr, in real life, a missile will kill you. Samus wins!
... Now, just stick to in-game things.
Oh, and by the way... Lucas can't use the Dragon's power in this thread. Is his power ever shown? The dragon protected the world from the end of the world, and helped create everything... For all we know, the 'dragon' could be made of CARBON (yes, the element), which gave life to everyone when it encountered other important elements such as oxygen and hydrogen, and it could be protecting the island from the "end of the world" which could be anti-matter, and the dragon is made of normal matter waiting to be used for that sole purpose... Can you disprove my claim? The dragon never has an explanation as to HOW his power was used, for all we know it could be what I said, or some amazing thing which blinked and created the universe... And since it was never used in the game, but spoken about, and we never actually saw Lucas use it, for all we know it could've killed Lucas when it was summoned, then killed everyone.
Hurr, Lucas instantly dies, because his head is too big for his thin neck, meaning he will paralyze himself or be immobile due to the weight. D'oy, magic isn't real whereas technology is, and missiles are, so Samus can shoot lucas down while he's stuck to the floor due to his heads' size. Durr, in real life, a missile will kill you. Samus wins!
... Now, just stick to in-game things.
Oh, and by the way... Lucas can't use the Dragon's power in this thread. Is his power ever shown? The dragon protected the world from the end of the world, and helped create everything... For all we know, the 'dragon' could be made of CARBON (yes, the element), which gave life to everyone when it encountered other important elements such as oxygen and hydrogen, and it could be protecting the island from the "end of the world" which could be anti-matter, and the dragon is made of normal matter waiting to be used for that sole purpose... Can you disprove my claim? The dragon never has an explanation as to HOW his power was used, for all we know it could be what I said, or some amazing thing which blinked and created the universe... And since it was never used in the game, but spoken about, and we never actually saw Lucas use it, for all we know it could've killed Lucas when it was summoned, then killed everyone.
Good until the last part. When you walk around after 'the end', you talk to all the characters.
from Kewkky:
The booklet and in-game explanations are all that should be used (people agreed on using official strategy guides and Wikis as well) in this topic.
Does Sonic's ring count fit this description? No.
from Kewkky:
The booklet and in-game explanations are all that should be used (people agreed on using official strategy guides and Wikis as well) in this topic.
Does Sonic's ring count fit this description? No.
Yink
The Robo-PSIentist
DANGIT HAILCREST! I was going to post stats!
Kewkky said:
Uh, yeah, you see it at the end of the game dude. It shows the Nowhere Islands totally being ripped apart. And as mariobrouser said, you do talk to people at the "the end" part.
DANGIT HAILCREST! I was going to post stats!
Uh, yeah, you see it at the end of the game dude. It shows the Nowhere Islands totally being ripped apart. And as mariobrouser said, you do talk to people at the "the end" part.
Well, either everyone's dead and in the better/worse place including Lucas, or everyone's alive in darkness. I played the japanese version (before the patched version came out), so I don't remember the ending much, even less what they all say. I DO remember seeing the island shaking, then everything going black, then me pissed at how crappy the ending was.
@ mariobrouser and the ring thing:
I agree that it's a game mechanic designed to measure the limited time Sonic has while Super/Hyper, but the form(s) is(are) still shown to have a limited time. I, myself, would count Infinite Super Sonic from Unleashed as "too broken for the thread", since if only Chaos-induced enemies can hit him, he immediately beats everyone. At least you can do stuff to Ganon depending on what person you are (he loses to Link for example, to say otherwise is a mockery of the Zelda games), but Infinite Super Sonic will never get hurt, goes at the speed of sound, and hits like a ****er... He would literally immediately win, so I'd count the "limited Super Sonic" instead to make sure the thread doesn't get a winner so soon, and to even out the field more... Remember that even Samus can be beaten, she's just a very nasty opponent right now.
So, I'd use the limited version Super Sonic for purposes of making the matches more unpredictable, than immediately having a winner (which is a good thin for Sonic fans, by the way. I can't think of a way anyone could beat Infinite Super Sonic).
HailCrest
Smash Journeyman
I'm not going to even talk about the
because I don't know enough about it. Does Lucas retain his control over it? Does it disappear after all its energy has been used up for its master's wish? Is it truly all-powerful? I don't know. And also, I don't want it to be Lucas' one-way ticket to victory for all matches.
Also one thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post: Counter Alpha and PSI-Counter Alpha. Counter Alpha halves physical damage done to Lucas and deals the other half back to attacker. PSI-Counter does the same thing, except with only energy/magic/PSI-based attacks. Both are very capable of reducing damage when coupled with Defense Up Alpha, but a little predicting will get past it because only one of those shields can be up at a time.
Their counterparts, Shield Alpha and PSI-Shield Alpha, do nearly the same thing, but they're not on steroids and therefore don't deal any damage back, just halves the damage. They use up less of Lucas' psychic energy, and he has a choice between either one of them.
(If you're asking why I'm not mentioning all the Omega PSI, it's because Omega levels of PSI moves mostly increase the range from single target to multiple target. Since it's one-on-one in this scenario, Lucas isn't going to waste any of his psychic energy targeting multiple allies/enemies when there's only one of either.)
Also, after Lucas uses his newfound power, the whole of Porky's empire is dead. Everything that he has touched, or had any influence upon, is dead. However, Lucas would wish everyone that he loves to be alive, therefore his family, his neighbors, all his village would be safe from any damage whatsoever. They're not dead.
It never hurts is master. Therefore, Lucas is alive. And by the way, it's the player talking to everyone in the end, not Lucas himself.
Oh, and if allies and party members are included in this discussion (since Meta Knight has the help of his ginormous ship and all), Kumatora would WRECK with the iconic PK Starstorm. No one would want to get hit (not even Lucas himself lol, why do you think everyone tries to avoid the Men's Room Sign?).
If Claus' ghost is included in this (they are twin brothers after all), Shield Killer? Yum. Double PK Love Omega? Even more yum. Super lightning attack with the capability to knock anyone out? AWESOOMEE.
dragon
Also one thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post: Counter Alpha and PSI-Counter Alpha. Counter Alpha halves physical damage done to Lucas and deals the other half back to attacker. PSI-Counter does the same thing, except with only energy/magic/PSI-based attacks. Both are very capable of reducing damage when coupled with Defense Up Alpha, but a little predicting will get past it because only one of those shields can be up at a time.
Their counterparts, Shield Alpha and PSI-Shield Alpha, do nearly the same thing, but they're not on steroids and therefore don't deal any damage back, just halves the damage. They use up less of Lucas' psychic energy, and he has a choice between either one of them.
(If you're asking why I'm not mentioning all the Omega PSI, it's because Omega levels of PSI moves mostly increase the range from single target to multiple target. Since it's one-on-one in this scenario, Lucas isn't going to waste any of his psychic energy targeting multiple allies/enemies when there's only one of either.)
Also, after Lucas uses his newfound power, the whole of Porky's empire is dead. Everything that he has touched, or had any influence upon, is dead. However, Lucas would wish everyone that he loves to be alive, therefore his family, his neighbors, all his village would be safe from any damage whatsoever. They're not dead.
It never hurts is master. Therefore, Lucas is alive. And by the way, it's the player talking to everyone in the end, not Lucas himself.
Oh, and if allies and party members are included in this discussion (since Meta Knight has the help of his ginormous ship and all), Kumatora would WRECK with the iconic PK Starstorm. No one would want to get hit (not even Lucas himself lol, why do you think everyone tries to avoid the Men's Room Sign?).
If Claus' ghost is included in this (they are twin brothers after all), Shield Killer? Yum. Double PK Love Omega? Even more yum. Super lightning attack with the capability to knock anyone out? AWESOOMEE.
Samochan
Smash Master
Ghost helper participating in the fight would definitely be considered backup, twin or not. Meta gets his ship cause he can apparently operate it by himself and if not, his allies never engage in the actual fight/he can summon personel to operate the ship himself.
Anyways, PSI counter even in namesake really only works against PSI attacks, which the enemy attacks on Mother 3 consists of. It's okay on the Mother 3 universe, where basically all such energy things (cept lasers lol) are PSI attacks, but it doesn't work for Lucas advantage here. (eb wiki & gamefaq)
Dragon on the other hand is, by game script, an ally whom Lucas presented his wish to and then did the deed. While Clinton has been insistent in proving it's his own strenght and also infinite in use, this is really not the case. Dragon resides beneath the island and was called fort once by Lucas, but then did the wish and went back to sleep again. We never see Lucas using Dragon's strenght, to do other deeds with it nor does it belong to him by choice or something, no matter how many needles he had pulled. Not forgetting it's not something he can even take with him or belong to his inventory.
Anyways, PSI counter even in namesake really only works against PSI attacks, which the enemy attacks on Mother 3 consists of. It's okay on the Mother 3 universe, where basically all such energy things (cept lasers lol) are PSI attacks, but it doesn't work for Lucas advantage here. (eb wiki & gamefaq)
Dragon on the other hand is, by game script, an ally whom Lucas presented his wish to and then did the deed. While Clinton has been insistent in proving it's his own strenght and also infinite in use, this is really not the case. Dragon resides beneath the island and was called fort once by Lucas, but then did the wish and went back to sleep again. We never see Lucas using Dragon's strenght, to do other deeds with it nor does it belong to him by choice or something, no matter how many needles he had pulled. Not forgetting it's not something he can even take with him or belong to his inventory.
HailCrest
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, I wouldn't have mentioned all that if I had read the rules in the front page first (first time here lol).
Anyway, I feel that Lucas vs. Samus would need rediscussing. Samus may have speed boost but Lucas has Ancient Bananas that would trip her and cease the speed boost. Fast-shot Missiles? No problem, Lucas gets quite a few turns before his health counter rolls down to anything critical, even then he has Lifeup Gamma to heal it off, and his rolling HP counter would be back up and he'd have like 3-4 more turns before he needs to heal again. Also, did I mention how deadly PK Love Omega is? Aside that, PK Flash would render Samus' missiles and beams inaccurate. His non-PSI, physical attacking abilities aren't too shabby either. With the Mystical Stick, he has the highest physical attacking power out of his four party members and a 16-hit combo would deal more than PK Love Omega.
I'm assuming Lucas' Inventory would consist of the 7 mementos (thereby essentially giving him 8 lives), 3 Magic Cakes that heal 50 PP each (PK Love Omega takes 50 PP to use), and 10 New Year's Eve Bombs (yes, they are buyable).
I mean Lucas lost his previous matches because the people who were discussing him didn't know or remember the game well enough. All they know? His attacks, his weapons, his PSI. They forget that items are a critical part to Lucas' victory.
Anyway, I feel that Lucas vs. Samus would need rediscussing. Samus may have speed boost but Lucas has Ancient Bananas that would trip her and cease the speed boost. Fast-shot Missiles? No problem, Lucas gets quite a few turns before his health counter rolls down to anything critical, even then he has Lifeup Gamma to heal it off, and his rolling HP counter would be back up and he'd have like 3-4 more turns before he needs to heal again. Also, did I mention how deadly PK Love Omega is? Aside that, PK Flash would render Samus' missiles and beams inaccurate. His non-PSI, physical attacking abilities aren't too shabby either. With the Mystical Stick, he has the highest physical attacking power out of his four party members and a 16-hit combo would deal more than PK Love Omega.
I'm assuming Lucas' Inventory would consist of the 7 mementos (thereby essentially giving him 8 lives), 3 Magic Cakes that heal 50 PP each (PK Love Omega takes 50 PP to use), and 10 New Year's Eve Bombs (yes, they are buyable).
I mean Lucas lost his previous matches because the people who were discussing him didn't know or remember the game well enough. All they know? His attacks, his weapons, his PSI. They forget that items are a critical part to Lucas' victory.
Samochan
Smash Master
You forget that she has hyper mode, which provides phazon weapons and temporary invincibility. Phazon cannot be countered by counter, as it's not a physical attack. Phazon itself is highly deadly organic substance that self-replicates and radiates, but also induces phazon insanity in the form of brain cell destruction and corrupts the beings it outright cannot kill.
Radiation might be healable (even though you don't heal radiation on Mother 3), but Lucas is vulnerable to repeated phazon assaults and would need to heal non-stop unless he wants phazon's radiation to take effect. But he cannot heal the corruption and insanity the phazon causes, not forgetting Phazon is quite an ohko against things that do not resist it.
And can't Lucas carry max 8 items? Or is it max 20 items?
Anyways, basically every move Lucas does makes him vulnerable to phazon, which samus has plenty of, while samus can stick to hyper mode for some time and do it again at the cost of her energy tank.
Radiation might be healable (even though you don't heal radiation on Mother 3), but Lucas is vulnerable to repeated phazon assaults and would need to heal non-stop unless he wants phazon's radiation to take effect. But he cannot heal the corruption and insanity the phazon causes, not forgetting Phazon is quite an ohko against things that do not resist it.
And can't Lucas carry max 8 items? Or is it max 20 items?
Anyways, basically every move Lucas does makes him vulnerable to phazon, which samus has plenty of, while samus can stick to hyper mode for some time and do it again at the cost of her energy tank.
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
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- 3,189
And you guys did such a great job at it…I like how 2/3 of the people posting did not know **** about said powers
Maybe I need to explain something a bit better I see…
1st off…Counter=Power shield…I didn’t think I would have to explain that…god…
Physical Attacks=things that have “reason behind them” as in make sense and follow rules to how they are real…a punch is something that follows rules if you get my point…
Mental Attacks=things that don’t have “reason behind them” as in things that have no true rule behind them…PSI doesn’t follow any rule…so that is why they protect from them…
Lucas’ power shield=something that protects from things that are “making sense” Phazon has rules behind it…it is a living thing…Lucas’ shield should protect from that…
Phazon isn’t in Mother 3…but considering how Lucas is packing a power that lets him destroy and create how he pleases…I don’t see how Phazon is anything special in said exceptions…
Phazon has rules for how it works…Psychic powers do not…
How the hell does running fast make you invincible…and the other two games that have speed booster do discredit it…god they use terms to describe the move that do have rules behind them…
Supersonic speed has a rule behind it…supersonic speed is a hell of a lot better of a description than “invincibility”
Hell Samus fights foes that attack with the same principles as speed booster full time…if they where invincible…they would be unbeatable…yet…Samus beats them…
Also… Samochan…I like how you think the only fights I’ve been *****ing about have been the ones Lucas is in…maybe you better check again ok?
Which is why I used bosses that appear late game to make my point…how about that?
Oh and Diddy Kong…you have a lot of nerve calling my posts biased when you think that just because Diddy has ate 20 bananas he is going to be protected from a moving object flying at 700+ miles per hour…how about this…how about you use Going Bananas and jump off a cliff in that game…see how invincible he really is…
Ah no…I’m just trying to make a point of an example of invincibility being stupid…I don’t think at all that Lucas is invincible just by “moving very fast” people…I’m not like you guys…
They do use it on the map…god in Mother 3 at the start of it they burn a forest to the ground…
Oh and I like how you think Kumatora destroying a tank at the beginning parts of the game is just a game mech. by your words…
The fighting happens in the games pal…Just like how it happens in Metroid…
Ah no…Dr. Andonuts points out clearly in Mother 2 that if it wasn’t for the help of the Mr. Saturn…he wouldn’t have been able to make the devices he made by end game…
And video games don’t IYO then?
God at least like 90% of these characters here are saving the world somehow once per game…
I like how you say you don’t agree with free control over space and time…yet you accepted my definition of what psychic powers where when I explained how something like PK Fire would work…
Oh and I also like how you don’t accept the games history behind the island in one of the posts…which is stuff that happened out of battle…and has clear meaning behind it…
Yet…now you are saying you will only accept what is in battle according to this part of the post…
Why is that?
If you actually look at OoT’s canon…then you should see that the powers came to Link and Zelda because at the time…they where the “best” fit for them…
It has hardly any meaning behind destiny that they would have it…they are just the “right fit” for them at the time…
Please…Mother 3’s ending is just fine if all you are looking for is “a happy ending”
God in the original version of it…Itoi sounds like he wasn’t even going to allow the “The End?” part of the game in…
Which is sort of funny…because the book that inspired Mother 3 (The book of Lies) does do things like that…
hell the biggest twist seen in the book is that Claus and Lucas had their roles reversed because they changed their names to match the other one…as in Lucas was really Klaus…and Claus was really Lucas…
Yeah…Lucas is crippled sort of like how Duster is…and he is the one who kills himself at the end after meeting his brother again…mostly because his brother didn’t want to tell him what actually happened to him that made him a cripple in the 1st place…but I should point out…that in the Book of Lies…it is the father who dies…not the Mother…in fact it is the Mother who kills him and cripples Lucas
Yeah…Lucas is crippled sort of like how Duster is…and he is the one who kills himself at the end after meeting his brother again…mostly because his brother didn’t want to tell him what actually happened to him that made him a cripple in the 1st place…but I should point out…that in the Book of Lies…it is the father who dies…not the Mother…in fact it is the Mother who kills him and cripples Lucas
I personally like Mother’s point of story telling a lot more than the other characters in this thread…which really don’t get much better than…
1. Good guys are only good…bad guys are only bad
2. Happy ending no matter what…not just an ending that makes you question things…
Actually they don’t have a gender really…according to Alex…but yeah…that is the joke I guess…
They aren’t the only characters that are gay in the Mother series…Tony is for example
Which is bull ****…Bowser is using a god power that he robbed…Lucas’ power that he is using is a god power as well…if you don’t think it is a god power…you really need to look at the game again…
Bowser’s power faded away when he had to deal with said gods countering his power…why should it be any less different than with Lucas?
You miss my point…
PK Love/Rockin is stronger than Starstorm…how about that?
By end game…Lucas’ is stronger with his PSI than the beings that can stop time…what does that ****ing say about him? Huh?
Giygas…by his canon…isn’t even a 100 years old…yet…according to Mother 2…Aliens have been screwing with humanity for over 1000s of years…
We are talking about Diddy Kong vs. Captain Falcon again as well…remember? You said in a post pretty much…that Diddy is going to be able to take a hit from an F-Zero machine because of Going Bananas…
That machine travels past the speed of sound and has to deal with the pressure from it…
There is no way a grenade is going to **** it up…when it can handle a crash at those speeds…
Yet…he uses powers that are stronger than them…and he also shows proof that he can learn just by watching things and being hurt from things…
Plus they do share some of the same moves as well…
Plus the definition of PK itself says that he should have an issue with them…because every PK move basically works the same…except for…PK Love…which is the only exception according to the game…PK fire, freeze, thunder, offense up, life up, defense up, and so on…have the same general idea behind them if you look right…
Funny…Fox and Falco have all used weapons that are stronger than the reflector in game…they do actually have defensive things like reflectors…ever play Star Fox Assault?
Of course…I’m pretty sure Fox and Falco accepting help from Slippy is breaking the rules…last I checked they have to rely on “their” talent only…because they aren’t Bowser…who can break the rules for whatever reason…
Dixie Kong has long hair…Last I checked…long hair isn’t PK…please don’t compare something like PK to that…
Funny…Zelda has actually used a sword canon wise…I don’t see why we are limiting weapons if they can somehow get a hold of them…it’s not like they belong to them personally like Psychic powers…
Really the only reason I think someone like Ike for example isn’t using a bow and arrow is because of game mechs…because I certainly don’t see how he has any real limits to using one when he is sort of seen as a weapon expert…can’t say the same about magic though…because it is canon wise different than a weapon according to FE (Check Ike’s “friend” Soren and his canon history in that game for example). You can’t just train to become good with Magic…but whatever…
He get’s his energy drained…as in he loses power rings…that is my point…
That isn’t my point…I’m trying to prove that he can get hurt…ok? Because the definition of invincibility means something…and I’m trying to prove that he really isn’t invincible…the fact that he can get hurt, have his energy drained, whatever…proves that it isn’t truly invincibility he is using…
So…you think Sonic will win no matter what just because of that?
Well…Bowser should have won that match then…because Sonic doesn’t have access to the Star Rod in his game series…yet…according to the match up summery…Sonic somehow got it…
There are plenty of characters in this thread that can use energy like the chaos emeralds (psychic powers for example)…I don’t see why if they couldn’t screw with them…
There is no true rule saying that only Sonic can have access to this energy like some of the characters have (PK Love for example is a key…and only one other besides Lucas has that key…Ness)
That isn’t a game mech.
That happens no matter what…game mechs are things the player can influence and allows them to play the game in the 1st place…
That is a cut sence…
You see…that is an example of a game mech…also…I like how you avoided pointing out that Sonic only has 5 rings for that fight at the start…where as some other fights have him going 1 sec. per ring…but give him 50 rings…
I don’t really give a **** about game mechs…because like it or not…Cutsences from the Sonic games (as in not gameplay) have shown that stress wears out the timer on the energy…I don’t really care for how long they last…I only care about the stats of them…
Because…how much is 1 ring anyway in another universe?
Link has 20 heart containers…how much does that actually equal to?
Get my point?
It doesn’t matter if they showed it or not…everyone says they are A. Ok…and the power also has done things like protected the island from the world ending…plus the game points out that the power has been needed in the past…that is why it was sealed in the 1st place…so it could be used again…
Various foes that you fight in that game are lightning fast…and Claus is the 2nd in command of them…Claus also shows perfect control over his lightning by the end…considering how he is able to knock down everyone despite Lucas trying to protect them…
I like your lackluster theory crafts...
So...explain to me why a being that can stop time with it's psychic powers but still can't control PK Love?
Oh and again…I like how Samus’ speed booster can break through things and gives her true invincibility…yet gets stopped by a bomb block…because only morph ball bombs can break those blocks…what does that say about Samus’ speed booster again being unstoppable? Also…For the one boss that Samus has used speed booster on…it harms her just to run into it while using it…what does that say?
Also…I don’t know why Lucas just wouldn’t use the shield killer on Samus…because as we know…if Samus’ shields in her suit are down…she is pretty ****ed…
Also…Mewtwo is going to **** Samus as well…he can prevent the use of items…what is Samus’ suit again? (just pointing that out…in case people still think Samus truly beats the psychics…she has lost to psychics that are weaker than Ness and Lucas before…for example…Mother Brain would have killed her if it wasn’t for the backup she got from the baby metroid)
Also…as far as Lucas’ powers go and how he can create things (and again…Ness has shown that power as well in his game)…What’s going to stop him from turning the arena that they are fighting in into something that prevents Samus from activating speed booster if it really bugs him enough…
_clinton
Smash Master
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Where is the proof that the dragon went back to sleep again? The thing was put into a sleep only because of the needles…the needles are gone by the end of the game…
Plus…the needles where only used as a seal in the 1st place because the power wasn’t needed…but if Lucas is fighting anyway…what makes you think he wouldn’t need his power?
And again…there is proof that the power is Lucas’…the 2nd time you fight the Masked Man for control over the 6th needle…Lucas and the Masked Man only had control over PK Love Gamma…however when the needle was pulled…Lucas got control over PK Love Omega…later when you refight Claus…he also has PK Love Omega…
How would he have PK Love Omega if the power wasn’t linked to him as well?
Leder points out that the dragon is waking up…when none of the needles where pulled…PK Love wasn’t that strong…but now that the dragon is close to waking up…the power is stronger…why do you think that is?
Of course…I don’t really know why I’m fighting about this “dragon”…when it’s just the power of the earth as seen in Mother 2…plenty of things in the Mother games where given a new name for Mother 3…the King’s gear for example worn by Poo was given a new name in Mother 3…PK Rockin by default became PK Love by default…
The fact that the power of the land in Mother 2 is shown to be transportable and the fact that it was sealed again in the 1st place should be proof that Lucas should be able to keep it in this fight if he needs it…
Phazon is a substance that has “reason” behind it…Lucas is shown by the end of Mother 3 to be able to create and destroy at will…what would stop him from destroying Phazon?
Plus PK Love itself is “super effective” vs. everything…how is Samus going to take that? Hell…how is Samus going to take Lucas’ telepathic skills?
Samus is by far overrated...she may be powerful...but she is going to lose to the psychic's...all of her moves have a "meaning" behind them...she doesn't have any mental attacks...
Hell...I still think the Shield killer is going to WTF PWN her...because her suit protection is...a shield you know...
HailCrest
Smash Journeyman
Lucas doesn't have a shield killer. Claus does. Lucas has a Shield Snatcher though.
Thud Charm would protect Lucas from all statuses. Including radiation and insanity (I consider that to be close to "feeling strange" in the actual game).
Thud Charm would protect Lucas from all statuses. Including radiation and insanity (I consider that to be close to "feeling strange" in the actual game).
_clinton
Smash Master
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I don't really care about the name...this is why I called counter "power shield"
They are pretty much the same...
I don't see Lucas going insane from phazon...or having to worry about radiation...the 1st due to some story events that happen in said game...
The 2nd due to how psychic powers work anyway...and what radiation is...
They couldn't
Well, I proved that Sonic really is the best, good enough for me.
But there's still a problem. Even if we use ring limited SS, his ring max is still undefined. How do we get it?
@ clinton didnt see your replies lol
Ok, so he may not fit the definition of invincibility, but he does show he is invulnerable. I can see you rpoint on the 'having his energy drained', but again, that was with the rings, which is still a game mechanic since it hasn't received an explanation to this day. That's my biggest poit : The ring count has yet to receive an official explanation of why it exists, so it is a game mech right now so sonic's final bosses wont be too easy. Sonic beat bowser because he can hit him before bowser has a chance to use the star rod or stopwatch. Knuckles' attack still has no explanation though and has never been replicated. If that cutscene counts, i think the sonic advance one should count too (it shows sonic being super for 2 or more days, no ring limitation). You said plenty of people could use power like the chaos emeralds. So ness and Lucas can destroy stars and blow up the moon? Or bring people back to life ? (not unconsciousness, back from the dead).
Im not done, i gotta go. I'll finish this later
_clinton
Smash Master
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How is Sonic going to be the best when anything that causes him enough stress/can control energy can screw with the chaos emeralds?
I'm pretty sure something like Mewtwo is going to A. use their energy because psychics like Silver have been shown to use their energy...and B. prevent Sonic from using them because of his power to prevent the use of items on the other side...
I'm pretty sure something like Mewtwo is going to A. use their energy because psychics like Silver have been shown to use their energy...and B. prevent Sonic from using them because of his power to prevent the use of items on the other side...
Samochan
Smash Master
Unless you've forgotten Clinton, PSI works on the rules set by the game universe it appears on. And it most certainy has set of rules, aka the attacks that character is given and able to manifest. If someone was able to predict the future, that person might not be able to telekinetically move things, even though he could be classified as a psychic. It's as simple as that.
And I like the way you consider dragon's power something akin to a god power lucas is able to abuse on free will and do whatever he pleases. =) Where's your proof Lucas can use it like that and after he did his wish? Where's your proof dragon didn't go back to sleep?
As for samus, why do you think she can't run through walls while we're at it? Or why her screw attack doesn't break bomb blocks even though much more powerful? Game mechanics... or it's simply that the energy type used to break the blocks needs to be a certain one. Samus uses different types of energy to use different types of attacks, like ice beam with freezing qualiy is different from power beam, thus it opens white doors. Her missiles are concussive blasts, bombs are as well.
You can shinespark opponents without taking damage on super, even though you take damage on super if you hit a wall. =) And there's no room (or altitude) to speed booster any opponent in metroid really, only shinespark possibly. So I dunno against which boss you've even tried speed boosting at (or managed to), seems like you're pulling this one out of your head. Besides bosses have lot more health and don't get ohkoed by booster, which would force her to halt in any case, stop the boost and get damaged. Regular enemies get wasted in her path though.
--
Thud Charm could work against radiation... but phazon causes insanity by destroying your brain cells when you're exposured to it, not just making you insane. It corrupts life forms by absorbing into their system (as seen with samus and hunters), self-replicates and mutates them. Most organic things it simply wastes away though. It even works through Pirate protective gears they used on Prime 1 when working in phazon mines.
And I like the way you consider dragon's power something akin to a god power lucas is able to abuse on free will and do whatever he pleases. =) Where's your proof Lucas can use it like that and after he did his wish? Where's your proof dragon didn't go back to sleep?
As for samus, why do you think she can't run through walls while we're at it? Or why her screw attack doesn't break bomb blocks even though much more powerful? Game mechanics... or it's simply that the energy type used to break the blocks needs to be a certain one. Samus uses different types of energy to use different types of attacks, like ice beam with freezing qualiy is different from power beam, thus it opens white doors. Her missiles are concussive blasts, bombs are as well.
You can shinespark opponents without taking damage on super, even though you take damage on super if you hit a wall. =) And there's no room (or altitude) to speed booster any opponent in metroid really, only shinespark possibly. So I dunno against which boss you've even tried speed boosting at (or managed to), seems like you're pulling this one out of your head. Besides bosses have lot more health and don't get ohkoed by booster, which would force her to halt in any case, stop the boost and get damaged. Regular enemies get wasted in her path though.
--
Thud Charm could work against radiation... but phazon causes insanity by destroying your brain cells when you're exposured to it, not just making you insane. It corrupts life forms by absorbing into their system (as seen with samus and hunters), self-replicates and mutates them. Most organic things it simply wastes away though. It even works through Pirate protective gears they used on Prime 1 when working in phazon mines.
except Silver =/= Mewtwo. Just because character a can do one thing doesnt mean character b can do it too because they are similar. You haven't replied to the fights where sonic has infinite super sonic.
really gotta go, ill finish later.
_clinton
Smash Master
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I’ll admit…PK has a rule…the rule is simple really…it happens to be that it refers “to the direct influence of mind on a physical system that cannot be entirely accounted for by the mediation of any known physical energy”…or if you look into that meaning further…it is control over chaos…it’s a pretty clear rule if you ask me for what something like that means…
It certainly is a lot more impressive than what Phazon is just by itself for what it means…and by the definition of what PK is…it should be able to affect Phazon stuff…because Phazon is a form of matter…which is a product of chaos anyway…how about that?
Again…this brings up my point about battle roles…they are artificial only…Lucas shows far more proof by just looking at his game canon that he is a master of PK ability and does far more just throughout the course of the game than just PK Fire…
For one…PK Rockin/Love creates a larger strain on the mind (as in cost to Psychic power) than any other psychic ability in the game…if Lucas can handle using that…why can’t he handle PK Fire? It certainly is a lot less stressful on the mind to use…it’s a lot weaker as well…but that’s besides the point…
Hell Ness himself shows proof in game that he in a way…knows how to use a psychic shield, PK Fire, PK Freeze, and PK Thunder (Magicant…Ness’ Nightmare is just him really and it starts off with said psi shield…and the foes there are him as well…or at least based off parts of him). He shows proof that he can do so much more actually (For example…Magicant is a product of his mind). The fact that he doesn’t use it for battle…shouldn’t matter…game play is restricted by game mechs. anyway than what pure canon is...in case you don’t get that…that is my point…hell by end game…it says that any lock on Ness’ limits is off when it comes to psychic power…
How is a psychic like Lucas who shows that by end game he can create and destroy as he pleases limited in using something like PK Freeze?
Again Mother 3 is again just about a group of people who are playing “a fake role” anyway…how about that? Even the Dragon is a part of that role…the fact that it is power that is tied to land is proof that it’s not really a dragon at all IMO…it’s just Ness’ power…because again…Ness’ power was tied to the land before he removed it
Prediction of the future is a bit different than what PK is…PK is an umbrella term for many psychic abilities itself…
K?
By the pure definition of PK…if you are a master of it…such as what Ness and Lucas are beyond said point…than you have more than just one ability
Funny…the game itself states that the power obeys only the master’s will like 10 times and will do whatever is willed…
I’m sorry if you didn’t get that from your play through of M3 though…
Explain to me again why PK Love was getting stronger when more of the needles where pulled? Also sense we are going to play like this and I’m getting sick of it…how come Samus can use Phazon weaponry when Phazon has been fully removed from the Metroid Universe again?
God…I love this threads BS…they allow Lucas to be gimped for a stupid reason…only because you want him to be…and he has no real proof that he lost the power…but you guys don’t allow others to be gimped…who show proof that they have lost said power canon wise (Bowser’s Star Rod and Samus’ Phazon weapons are only a few examples)…
God…What is up with that?
Lucas has far more rights to use his powers which show no proof that he gave them up…than what Samus or Bowser do to use stuff that they have canon wise lost…if you are going to allow them to use it…based off the theory that they had it once…than you’d better allow Lucas to us his stuff when he has no proof that he lost it and the favor shows otherwise with him actually keeping it more than losing it…
Chances are because there are no needles left…you know…because that was the thing that put the power of the earth away in the 1st place?
Lets relook into the definition of invincibility…
“Incapable of being overcome or defeated; unconquerable.”
Funny…The speed booster if it truly was invincible…wouldn’t be stopped by bomb blocks…how about that?
Thanks for that…I like how you point out that things require different energy types…
I consider shine spark to be still a part of speed booster…you know…because it destroys blocks meant for speed boosting…
So…is Lucas a regular enemy again? That is news to me…still think that if Samus runs into Lucas while he is using a power shield it’s going to hurt her and stop her…but whatever
So…what’s that going to be like on a psychic then who is using PK? Last I checked…PK users can alter/change/create mater…not just eat away at it like Phazon does (which is funny…because the X sort of did that as well…god games can be original huh?)…using things like Healing PSI would do that…hell…Defense up PSI does that as well…hell…offense up does that in a way as well…
Plus…the psychics in the mother series have been shown to not need their bodies/physical self really anyway …it’s more of a “soul” thing…
Yeah…M2 is a bit better than him…sorry about that
So…Silver’s TK is different than Ness’ TK…even though they have the same definition reference behind them?
Funny…So…how did Sonic win the Bowser vs. Sonic match by stealing the star rod again when it’s never been shown that Sonic can hold a rod?
These made up rules about such and such not being the same are just cope outs for allowing fake wins…someone who shows that they have control over chaos in their “universe” should still be controlling chaos in said neutral battleground that we appear to be still putting this match into…because I don’t see how the definition would fix into them not just being able to just because the name isn’t the same …
Mother 2 to 3 pretty much shows that name doesn’t matter…it gives enough hints to show that they are the same with many things (King’s gear, Psychic power types, ect.)
How is he going to have infinite super sonic again when I can think of two canon instances that showed Sonic/someone losing his super form because of him being stressed out?
God…there is more canon proof showing Super Sonic has limits to his power than just some theory about it being unlimited…
It’s being powered by a unlimited energy source yes…but still…that said energy source has a charge!
PowerBomb
Smash Master
My god, so many walls of posts.
As for the Samus Speed Boosting into bosses and getting hurt: That's only exploitable via cheating. And besides, the touch damage of some bosses is obviously a game mechanic.
So, I wonder where Dryn is?
As for the Samus Speed Boosting into bosses and getting hurt: That's only exploitable via cheating. And besides, the touch damage of some bosses is obviously a game mechanic.
So, I wonder where Dryn is?
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Dryn moved/is doing something for 2 years, said it'd be kinda like college. He's only able to come back/get online during breaks, I believe.
Also, it doesn't make her invincible, it makes her invulnerable. Invincible=/=invulnerable.
Also, it doesn't make her invincible, it makes her invulnerable. Invincible=/=invulnerable.
WhatIsRaizen?
Smash Ace
What do we have on the current match-up so far?
justaway12
Smash Master
It did break a majority of the games rules, how can we just look at that as fact?
That ring thing happens with like every game, those are like the only two that contridicted.
Technically, neither does that infinate Super Sonic, you can't just brush things off that were constant in every game and bring in 1 or 2 exceptions with out actually backing that up yourself. I'm sorry but when you make a big claim that goes against the majority of the games with no proof, you have to back it up. Like the Pokedex or...other stuff
WhatIsRaizen?
Smash Ace
New MU soon.
Samochan
Smash Master
*yawns*
I'd like to see some game script pls, Clinton. =) Last time I checked, the script you actually posted didn't mention anything about using dragon's power 10 times lol, nor does the eb wiki. Maybe people would actually believe what you were saying here if you put some fact to the table instead of your own interpretations of how things should be. How it should be is not to be without any solid evidence here.
And again, nothing proves Lucas is using dragon's power by himself or that he's able to use them however he wishes. How much random assumptions can one make from blackened screen anyway? The game script tells us quite clearly the power is an ally that'll come fort to fullfill one's heart's wish (note one wish, plural wasn't used). Nothing more and nothing less. You cannot go assuming that cause Lucas pulls some needles outta ground and develops his PK Love some more he automatically absorbs some entity and then after the ending goes hulabaloo with his new awsome powers when we're not watching. Especially because us gamers aren't seeing it, it's not canon. =)
And lol if being a master of PK abilities means he has mostly healing type PK moves.
And okay I used invincibility instead of invulnerability. Big deal. >_>
By using speed boosting instead of using the word shinesparking, you lead me to believe samus gets hurt by speed boosting into enemy. And while you consider shinespark to be part of speed boost, does she get hurt when she hits a boss? Nope, she deals damage and goes through. Should be more than sufficient.
And if healing is the same as modifying matter and things, I guess eating an apple is altering space & time now eh? You eat food on Mother 3 to restore hit points in the exact same fashion as you do when using PSI, the only difference is that you're using PSI to do it, different HP amount is restored and you use PP. HP stays the same.
Samus isn't shown to breathe, but I'd make a wild guess and say she's capable of breathing to keep herself alive. Just as sonic can hold things in his hands or grab things.
I'd like to see some game script pls, Clinton. =) Last time I checked, the script you actually posted didn't mention anything about using dragon's power 10 times lol, nor does the eb wiki. Maybe people would actually believe what you were saying here if you put some fact to the table instead of your own interpretations of how things should be. How it should be is not to be without any solid evidence here.
And again, nothing proves Lucas is using dragon's power by himself or that he's able to use them however he wishes. How much random assumptions can one make from blackened screen anyway? The game script tells us quite clearly the power is an ally that'll come fort to fullfill one's heart's wish (note one wish, plural wasn't used). Nothing more and nothing less. You cannot go assuming that cause Lucas pulls some needles outta ground and develops his PK Love some more he automatically absorbs some entity and then after the ending goes hulabaloo with his new awsome powers when we're not watching. Especially because us gamers aren't seeing it, it's not canon. =)
And lol if being a master of PK abilities means he has mostly healing type PK moves.
And okay I used invincibility instead of invulnerability. Big deal. >_>
By using speed boosting instead of using the word shinesparking, you lead me to believe samus gets hurt by speed boosting into enemy. And while you consider shinespark to be part of speed boost, does she get hurt when she hits a boss? Nope, she deals damage and goes through. Should be more than sufficient.
And if healing is the same as modifying matter and things, I guess eating an apple is altering space & time now eh? You eat food on Mother 3 to restore hit points in the exact same fashion as you do when using PSI, the only difference is that you're using PSI to do it, different HP amount is restored and you use PP. HP stays the same.
Samus isn't shown to breathe, but I'd make a wild guess and say she's capable of breathing to keep herself alive. Just as sonic can hold things in his hands or grab things.
WhatIsRaizen?
Smash Ace
Just making sure, Metaknight wins cause Lucas has no way of reaching the Halberd, right?
Dracospawn
Smash Journeyman
Samus, luigi, ike, ganon and all the starfox characters are dominating.
not unless he can fly.
WhatIsRaizen?
Smash Ace
THE WARRIOR Vs. THE ANGEL
Ike Vs. Pit
Vs. Round 4, Match 8.
Dracospawn
Smash Journeyman
Ike cannot be hurt by weapons ashera and pit can't keep flying forever, the angel has to land some time.
PowerBomb
Smash Master
Didn't someone debunk that whole Ashera blessing thing?
Dracospawn
Smash Journeyman
Hmmm, I don't know.
PowerBomb
Smash Master
I know someone commented on the way it works, but I don't quite remember if he debunked it or not.
Eh.
Well, if Pit can't hurt Ike, the MU logically should go to him.
Eh.
Well, if Pit can't hurt Ike, the MU logically should go to him.
Alondite
Smash Journeyman
Ike has Yune's blessing, but he can still be hurt by anything...in theory. Keep in mind, a stat of 50 in Fire Emblem is literally God-like, and Ike's Vanguard averages aren't too far away (though in terms of "real world" strength, I see FE's stats as being exponential. Like the difference from 49-50 is much greater that the difference between 1-2). He's not just a regular guy with a sword, he's practically super-human.
Let's think about just how much Ragnell weighs first of all. It has a weight of 20 in-game, meaning that a characters needs a strength stat of at least 20 to be able to wield it without it's weight affecting them. A strength of 20 is many times that of a normal person (who generally have stats of like 0-2), so one can only figure that the sword has to be several hundred lbs. Also compare it to Hector's Armads in Fire Emblem Blazing Sword. The shaking screen effect when he drops it I think is a good indicator of how much it weighs...and Rangell has a higher Wt stat. So if Ike's average strength is like 36 or so...well, I think you can get just how strong that makes him. Now take into account that most of his other stats are very close to that number as well and...well...yeah.
Ike is a monster, he wins hands-down.
Let's think about just how much Ragnell weighs first of all. It has a weight of 20 in-game, meaning that a characters needs a strength stat of at least 20 to be able to wield it without it's weight affecting them. A strength of 20 is many times that of a normal person (who generally have stats of like 0-2), so one can only figure that the sword has to be several hundred lbs. Also compare it to Hector's Armads in Fire Emblem Blazing Sword. The shaking screen effect when he drops it I think is a good indicator of how much it weighs...and Rangell has a higher Wt stat. So if Ike's average strength is like 36 or so...well, I think you can get just how strong that makes him. Now take into account that most of his other stats are very close to that number as well and...well...yeah.
Ike is a monster, he wins hands-down.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Incorrect.
I don't wanna type that all up again. So here it is:
If it ain't blessed by Ashera or Yuna, it ain't hurting him physically. End of discussion. The only people that can hurt him in this contest are Ness, Lucas, and Mewtwo. A few others like Ganondorf can tie him due to the whole "Only the chosen can hurt me!" thing, but thats it.
Ike wins. Pit can't do anything but escape.
Samochan
Smash Master
Physically... that equals swords, physical blows an the likes? Or does it just make him invulnerable against attacks that are not mental? PSI rockin and psychic, while psionics, still harm him physically and do not attack his brain or something. I also doubt Yune would bless Ike against things like lasers or energy beams, those are hard to find in the medieval era. But blessing is a blessing.
So is it against physical attacks, like sword, contact moves and likes, or is his body invulnerable to damage?
So is it against physical attacks, like sword, contact moves and likes, or is his body invulnerable to damage?