Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[abit_rusty]

Hey...it's Wario.

 

[Anth0ny]

Awesome, I guessed Link.

Next week definately sounds like Wario. However, it sounds a lot like Ike too.

 

[soroush123]

uhuh, i think youre forgetting the part where dedede's fsmash takes about a whole second to come out, and an uncharged one wont be killing off the edge until at least 30% for lightweights

As for the move's slowness, the hint says that it can turn the match around if you don't ract fast enough. Most people wiggle the control sitck and hit buttons furiously to get out off DDD's grabs (when he initially grabs), and they are often unprepared, disorented and don't realise what's about to happen by the time they reach the edge of the stage (in the case of a CG), often messing with their DI. And a throw to Fsmash "combo" isn't a combo, in that it's easy to dodge if you see it coming, but if you don't and head right back to the stage, it WILL hit you. Granted, this will only work once, maybe twice if your opponent is really stupid. And people who have played a DDD will never get caught by this, but if for some reason, someone stops paying attention or forgets, they are done.

And from off of the ledge, Fsmash can easily kill like that. B throw adds 16%, a CG adds even more, and while it does take to 30 or 40 percent to kill a lightweight near the edge or closer to the center, if they are already off the edge, a move does not need to hit very hard to push them past the KO boundary.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

sounds like ike or DDD

but i dont think DDD has problems with projectile spammers so ike is my guess

 

[Krytha]

I'm thinking Ike.

 

[PeaCe]

This character has some difficulty with some of the faster characters
Wario's no slug, but he does suffer a little against some of the faster characters.

strong projectile spamming games
I'm not really sure on this, Wario does have some options against projectile spammers (more so than someone like Ike I believe) but his range is really "in your face" and as such a good camper could pose some troubles for him.

This character's recovery seems great, and was quite intimidating when the game was first released, but now that the game has been out for longer we've come to realize just how easy this character's recovery can be to punish sometimes.
The Bike was great and once people realised it trumped his Corkscrew, it was sort of intimidating - even purely from the sheer nature of the bike riding in the sky - and just as the hint describes, if the Wario player doesn't pay attention and make sure he always has the bike ready to use (by eating it/breaking it/riding it off the stage) then he has some troubles. Also, getting hit by an aerial attack also poses some other problems if he doesn't jump off to dodge the incoming aerial.

Always be careful when you're playing against this character; even if you're winning, the game can turn around instant if you don't react fast enough.
Now while he does have some damaging options (like the clap or the charge) I think this really refers to something that he wouldn't be able to spam - his Waft. The Wario Waft can change the tide of a battle in an instant - usually taking a stock off the opponent from as early as 70-90% (perhaps earlier).

When all is said and done, this character can be fun to play with, but is rarely fun to play against.
I'm more or less thinking of the "fun to play with" part here, it's great fun to play with Wario, purely from an enjoyment perspective, the biting, farting, bike riding Wario seem like the representation of a fun time playing the game.

 

[KingK]

Update #10: ?????

After a bit of a delay, we've finally begun discussing the new character of the week. This character has some difficulty with some of the faster characters, as well as characters with strong projectile spamming games. This character's recovery seems great, and was quite intimidating when the game was first released, but now that the game has been out for longer we've come to realize just how easy this character's recovery can be to punish sometimes. Always be careful when you're playing against this character; even if you're winning, the game can turn around instant if you don't react fast enough. When all is said and done, this character can be fun to play with, but is rarely fun to play against.

The bit about recovery and the last bit about being fun to play but not fun to play against makes me think next week's character might be Pit. However, he doesn't really fit the other parts of the hint.

DDD sounds like a pretty good possibility too. He's slow and he's a huge target so he has difficulty with fast characters. He has multiple jumps and a Upb that goes very high, but he can be gimped at times (like with Mario's downb). The chaingrab can really punish the other player if they don't react fast enough, and might be fun to do but is not at all fun to play against.

So I think it's DDD.

 

[PeaCe]

The bit about recovery and the last bit about being fun to play but not fun to play against makes me think next week's character might be Pit.

But Pit doesn't suffer against projectile spammers though.

 

[CorruptFate]

D3 we all thougth great recovery when the game came out: hes heavy and multi jumper with an up b then sends you way high up. but really isnt to hard to stop.

to slow for faster guys D3s got a slow game but if you dont react fast enough it can be turned around (chain grab and strong running attack along with many other attacks)

Owned by spammers: he is to slow and to big to handle most ranged attacks

not wario: because of recovery people thought it was bad when the game came out and its only gotten better as the game's been out.

 

[House M.D.]

luigi isn't unreasonable here (although not sure he fits the unfun to play against)

 

[DarkRenji]

This is definatly Dedede...

 

[Vaul]

I'm just gonna continue to stress this point so to hopefully one day arouse some discussion beyond 'its obv ike 100%' and 'ddd is so good but like pwned by fasties'. Yea, that's right. Verbatim.

Ironically, the manner in which Ike (and perhaps DDD) fits the description so well is exactly why it WONT be Ike (and/or DDD). Samurai Panda stated a few days ago that last week's hint was WAY too easy (which it was) and that he'll have to make next week's hint more difficult. Since Ike is the more obvious candidate given the description, most would easily expect him. I'm sure SP had this exact thing in mind when he wrote the hint. Just because they fulfill the criteria doesn't mean its them, and just because they don't personify certain qualities doesn't mean its not them (Ganondorf's 'devastating' aerial game anyone?). You really gotta think deeper than just relying on first impressions and what is obvious to virtually anyone. What fun/purpose would there be to this whole thread if everything was nice and accurate and obvious?

My money's on Luigi, then DK. For the random/WTF character (as was the case for Week 8), I'm going with Bowser and....for the hell of it....Jigglypuff.

 

[isomorphism]

DK isn't "not fun to play against" though, and his recovery never looked good at all, and is arguably worse than his Melee recovery since it already sweetspotted in that game and it didn't have the horrible ending lag. He's also not actually all that slow. I'd be surprised if it was him.

 

[Vaul]

If you have fun playing against DK...you're not fighting a good DK. His absolutely brutal, 2 hit combo nature is by no means rewarding when you get killed by it after doing fancy combos on him and racking up damage. When DK kills you with one of his overpowered smashes, tilts, and spikes, you most likely are not going to think 'wow, that was awesome'. I'm not bashing DK (he's the man), I'm just saying there isn't anything particularly too technical about him which would seemingly 'justify' his victory over you. A good DK player spaces properly, spams bair, upB, ftilt and smashes, will stage spike you when they can...and it pretty much ends there. By looking for openings, he's all punisher. His range, priority, and SA frames make nothing remotely 'fun' in fighting him.

He may not be as slow as he seems, but on a comparitive scale, he's definitely one of the slower ones.

This is arguable, but I staunchly believe DK's recovery is much better in Brawl than in Melee. In Melee he could be shined, spiked, etc. regularly, only having to be a little bit below the stage to ensure instant doom. With Brawl's new physics, this is much easier said than done. UpB has SA frames and amazing priority. There's very, very little you can do against a ledge stalling DK, the autosweet spot system makes his vertically challenged issues must better for him (although still sucking), and his horizontal recovery is absolutely superb as always. Yes the landing lag can be bad, but this isn't much of a concern if you seek to sweet spot the ledge or land on a platform of some sort which allows you to land before you finish the spinning animation, thus cancelling the lag. The recovery aspect may not be nearly as accurate as for the cases of Ike and DDD, but it is certainly arguable and cannot be disproven/proven otherwise. It may be a little bit of a stretch, but it's pretty much the only one DK needs to fill the requirements (not to mention we've all seen bigger stretches used in the past).

 

[iamthelifeonmars]

icies? the match can be going incredibly well for you until you get grabbed. then you're pretty much guaranteed to take at least 60 damage and a possible charged smash that can't be avoided. their recovery is easy to gimp if you know what you're doing, but if you don't, you're gonna jump right into it's hitbox (which is a little deceiving and can KO at high percents), which makes it very intimidating to someone who's not accustomed to playing competetive IC players.

and finally...it can be exciting to play an IC, but it is NEVER fun. nothings worse than being ice blocked from the opposite edge of the stage for like 2 minutes.

 

[Crizthakidd]

next week is DDD ftw

 

[biohazard930]

Actually, Jiggs does make sense...

How? Her recovery is amazing. It's not easy to punish.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

#10: Lucario

OR

DeDeDe

OR

Ike

 

[Browny]

i think we can be 99% sure its dedede or ike.

both of thier recoveries are intimidating, but amazingly easy to gimp/punish

but i dont see how dedede is any fun to play as. waddle dee spam / CG / b-air are the only attacks you ever need to win. ike is a lot of fun becasue edgeguarding with his fsmash is just too funny, and having 4 spikes also makes thing interesting :D

 

[Mawu]

d3 or ike, indeed.

 

[SnatchForFree]

i think we can be 99% sure its dedede or ike.

both of thier recoveries are intimidating, but amazingly easy to gimp/punish

but i dont see how dedede is any fun to play as. waddle dee spam / CG / b-air are the only attacks you ever need to win. ike is a lot of fun becasue edgeguarding with his fsmash is just too funny, and having 4 spikes also makes thing interesting :D

And what is at the end of the sentence? Not fun to play against. DDD is way more annoying then Ike.

 

[Myst007_teh_newb]

Perhaps Pit? I'm not sure how well he does against other projectile characters, but I think it very well may be him. His recovery is ridiculously easy to take advantage of. Also, who likes to play against a Pit, honestly... <_<

 

[Solidix Snike]

I was thinking Marth.

 

[manhunter098]

Its not Pit or Marth. Marth is a faster character and considering he has fast attacks and one of those disjointed hitboxes called a sword, he definitely doesnt have trouble with ANY of the faster chracters (hes one of the few that even fares well against Metaknight). Pit likewise has no trouble with faster chracters because he has a projectile, one that moves rather fast as well and can be controlled, so you cant duck under it or anything, you pretty much have to stop and shield it. Plus pit has a couple fast attacks of his own, but I can see him having more trouble than Marth with faster chraracter. What really makes sure that its not Pit is that Pit has TWO reflectors and a projectile of his own, so he definitely doesnt have any trouble against projectile users.

 

[PKPower]

Seems like it would be D3. His CG can turn the game around pretty easily, and he's a freaking tank with very good recovery, making it intimidating. The waddles are good vs projectiles, but they have their limits on people like TL and Pit (the arrows go right over the waddles.). Fast people like MK **** over D3 also. I think it's D3 they will be talking about.

 

[sweener]

Definetly Ikes

 

[null]

Seems like Zelda to me. I know she's really fun to play as, yet I get angry every time I see someone else's Zelda appear on my screen. Her recovery is infact...not as good as you might think. It has landing lag if you aim for the stage, and you can almost forget about trying to recover from beneath the stage (making it easily edgehogged/guarded if you knock her off below the ledge, even at low percentages.) Also, if you're against a Zelda, a few mistakes can leave you Din's Fire'd or Smashed to your demise. It's not difficult for Zelda to rack up the % and kill you let your guard down.

But I could be wrong. =D

(Also, Ganon and Link were just before this one...maybe they're trying to get the Triforce out of the way? :D)

 

[Mr Mattastic]

Mr DeeeeeDeeeeDeeee........... De De De

 

[BlackYoshi7]

It's gotta be Ike; he kills faster than anyone else off the side.

 

[null]

Also, Zelda lacks a good "get off me" attack, and fast projectiles stop her Din's.

^_~

 

[Blad01]

The hint fits VERY well to Lucario.


But that's a trap ! SamuraiPanda is smart. (Isn't he ?)

So it's probably Ike.

 

[Gamekidadv]

This hint is absolutly not Zelda. She doesn't have trouble with faster characters. Projectile spammers don't give her any particular trouble, since she has a projectile and a reflector of her own. Her recovery's not that punishable, nor was it ever believed to be intimidating. Zelda's a defensive character, she doesn't have any powerful attacks or other methods of turning around the match in an instant. And fun to play as or against is completely subjective, so you can't make much of the last point.

 

[petrie911]

I think Dedede is right. Ike's recovery isn't so much punishable as it is easily gimped. You're probably not going to hit Ike out of his recovery moves, but it's certainly easy to prevent them from getting him back on the stage. Dedede's, however, is rather intimidating, and his Up-B is very punishable. Also, I seem to remember someone saying how people didn't punish Dedede's recovery enough, largely because it seems rather intimidating.

Dedede is also far more of a chore to play against than Ike. Ike is kind of fun, actually. You can do tons of stuff to him, and there's always those moments where you realize that had your timing been just a bit worse, you would have eaten that fsmash/usmash/dair and be dead right now. Dedede is a Waddle Dee-spamming, chain-throwing *****.

Otherwise, they both have trouble with heavy projectile spam and fast characters, and both can change the course of the match quickly with their powerful attacks and, in Dedede's case, chain throw.

 

[MysticKenji]

The hint fits VERY well to Lucario.

Lucario's recovery was never intimidating and he has no troubles with faster characters or spam.

He's also fun to play against. >_>

 

[Http]

Uhh... Ike's recovery was never good. Not even when the game was first released.

 

[popsofctown]

Lucario's recovery isn't intimidating. Ike's and Dedede's are definitely initially intimidating, and both probably gimpable.

It can't be Dedede though. His Waddle Dee's block spam pretty easily.

The clue fits Ike pretty well. It could be Wario (recovery with a giant bike? scaaary).

 

[kackamee]

I think it's IC's

 

[null]

I don't see it being Ike...any fast character can be stopped by simply jabbing. And if you know what you're doing, projectiles aren't that serious either.

And I've yet to find a decent number of players who think playing against Ike isn't fun, or at least no different than playing against anyone else.

And the only thing really throwing me off of DDD is that he can block/counter spam pretty easily.

I suppose it COULD also be DK.

 

[Deleted member]

Luigi for sure.

 

[null]

This hint is absolutly not Zelda. She doesn't have trouble with faster characters. Projectile spammers don't give her any particular trouble, since she has a projectile and a reflector of her own. Her recovery's not that punishable, nor was it ever believed to be intimidating. Zelda's a defensive character, she doesn't have any powerful attacks or other methods of turning around the match in an instant. And fun to play as or against is completely subjective, so you can't make much of the last point.

As I said, her projectile is slow, and thus interruptible by faster projectiles.
An intelligent player will trick her into reflecting, but she'll reflect nothing back and instead be punished for it.
She most certainly can have trouble with a fast character.
Her recovery was easily punished in Melee, and still is now.
What is and isn't intimidating is relative to the player.
Being a defensive character both allows the match to be turned should the attacker stop playing carefully, AND most of the competitive smashers I know generally dislike defensive play (aka spamming), which is what most Zelda's do best. Thus, she's not fun to play against.