Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[Rhubarbo]

The next character is Ike. Remember the aethar spam?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

i really think this is ike the hint describes him perfectly as soon as i saw problems with fast charcters and projectile spamers i knew they where talking about ike because its a problem many of us have alot of threads are made on the ike boards asking how to deal with these things.


his recovery seemed great at first but them people started to figure out that you could just trow a waddle D in front of him or a pk fire theres alot of other ways to you can simply jump in front of him and take a hit even or if your good enough you can actually spike him down i know i can do it to other ikes a few times. you can hit him out of his aether while he is spinning at the peak of his jump.

and of course if you arent paying attention depending on who you are you can end up dead at 70% and if you trip suddenly in front of him you'd best hope god doesn't want your life to end there


edit:

And we already knew that it wasn't Lucario or Ike. There are always n00bs with n00b guesses, so just let them be.

why are you so dead set against it being ike i don't see what makes him a noob choice? i mean seriously do you know anything about him they basically described everything there is to know about him in that hint. if you don't think its ike how else would they describe him? DDD and kirby can kill him with his own move?

 

[2.72]

Dedede
Wario
Luigi

Yeah, I could see any of these. I'm not sure how Wario kills you if you slip up (farts, maybe? They only get 2 or 3 shots per match).

((Slightly OT, at matthewmilad: Luigi has no problems against Diddy. Other fast characters maybe, but he outprioritizes everything Diddy does and is much, much better than the chimp himself with nanners. I think that he's Diddy's next-to-worst matchup. Falco certainly takes the cake for worst matchup, hands down, thanks to that infernal reflector. Your point stands, though, for the other characters you listed.))

As I said, if it's Ike the hint is very poorly written. We knew, and fully appreciated, how easy he is to gimp from the beginning. Likewise, we knew how punishable Aether was from the beginning, but people spammed it anyway.

 

[ph00tbag]

I'm going to have to say that DDD, Luigi and Wario fit the bill best.

 

[Manic_1]

Ike maybe?

 

[Popertop]

I would say Luigi, but I don't see how he struggles with faster characters. He fits with the recovery bit. After a while figuring out how to recover with him, the opponent figures out where to hit him and severely hamper him. It lacks priority and utility, as he is restricted largely to three separate trajectories at one time, and if the opponent guesses right, you're screwed. Much of the projectile game stops his fireball dead in it's tracks, but that's not saying much considering its low priority. Punishment from Luigi can be devastating with Fsmash, Usmash, and most of all the dreaded firejumppunch from the ground. This fits the turnaround game perfectly. In summary I don't really think it will be Luigi since he doesn't really struggle against fast characters execpt Marth and Meta, but that's in addition to their high priority disjoints that give him and really everybody trouble. Luigi is loads of fun to play as, and I don't really hate playing against him. Hint #10 =/= Luigi

I would say DDD, but his Waddle-Goombas really prevent most character's projectile spamming, although he really hates getting comboed by quicker chars. He also fits with the "intimidating yet punishable recovery" that people thought was great at the beginning, but later on turns out to be not that great. Fast characters can jump in and punish his mistakes, but if you screw up you take a Fsmash to the face, which is not pretty at all. Every time I watch videos of DDD I cringe when he gets a chaingrab off from one end of the stage to the other. 50% plus in some instances. I hate playing against a DDD. DDD probably has the best choice, only one of the hints not really being all that relevant. Hint #10 possibly DDD.

Lucario would fit perfectly, except he doesn't fit two points.
1. He does not struggle at all against fast characters. If anything he has advantages over them because of the nature of his hitboxes.
2. His recovery, although versatile and gimpable to an extent, is not intimidating at all. In the beginning of Brawl, no one had a clue what it did, so it couldn't intimidate anyone other than how mysterious it was. I mean, it doesn't do any damage, how can no damage be intimidating? If anything, it became better as Brawl progressed because we found out all it's little quirks and tricks, how to curve it, other ways to not get gimped etc.
He does offer great punishment options, and I think everyone knows how bad it is to take a fully charged Aura Sphere or a tipped Fsmash. Everybody knows Lucario is the comeback kid with his Aura ability. Hint #10 =/= Lucario

Ike. The only reason I would say it isn't Ike is that I don't really hate playing against him. I enjoy gimping his recovery every chance I get. He gets spammed all over, comboed all over, and gimped unmercilessly.
Be careful or a Bair or Fsmash will be the end of you. People have already gone over the reasons for Ike, so I'm not gonna make anymore effort. Hint #10 Probably Ike.

Edit: After I read some comments, I think it's either Luigi or DDD. I'd say DDD, as I'm sure everyone HATES being CG'ed across stages.

 

[Kiederen]

My guess would be Ike, in agreement with Popertop. The nature of his recovery was initially intimidating because of the highly disjointed hitbox on aether combined with super armor frames. His speed creates issues against faster characters, and he doesn't have a projectile or a reflector, nor is he exceedingly mobile so he naturally has difficulty against good projectile spammers. The turn around factor is in his raw power. One slip, eating a fair, bair, fsmash, ftilt, usmash, uair or eruption will all kill at low percentages. The only variable would be the fun to play with and against, which, in my opinion, is the least important part of the post, as it is completely subjective and varies from player to player.

 

[sagemoon]

I've never not had fun gimping an ike player over and over and over again. I have gotten frustrated playing against DDD and Mario... Mario doesnt fit the other hints as well..

DDD is my guess.

 

[acv]

i think its ness

 

[Popertop]

The thing is about Ike, there's really nothing that you can hate about playing against him.

With DDD, the general concensus against CGs is that everyone hates them. I dare you to ask anybody if they enjoy getting CGed across a stage repeatedly. DDDs chaingrab offers something that generally is thought of as "cheap" by n00bs and I hate anything that I can't get out of. I'm sure DDD players love that extra damage. Plus his crouch is really fun.

 

[cutter]

I REALLY think this time it's D3. Chaingrabs and his WOP make him unfun to play against, but fun to play as. Has no true way to stop fast projectile spam like Fox's Lasers because Waddle Dee army is slow and doesn't always shield D3.

Very intimidating jump and a ton people jumped on it being so good, but it can be easily punished when D3 lands down since he loses his super armor and his lag at the end of his stomp.

 

[Ayato]

Dedede or Ike. Just a hunch.

 

[2.72]

I would say DDD, but his Waddle-Goombas really prevent most character's projectile spamming, although he really hates getting comboed by quicker chars. He also fits with the "intimidating yet punishable recovery" that people thought was great at the beginning, but later on turns out to be not that great. Fast characters can jump in and punish his mistakes, but if you screw up you take a Fsmash to the face, which is not pretty at all. Every time I watch videos of DDD I cringe when he gets a chaingrab off from one end of the stage to the other. 50% plus in some instances. I hate playing against a DDD. DDD probably has the best choice, only one of the hints not really being all that relevant. Hint #10 possibly DDD.

...

Edit: After I read some comments, I think it's either Luigi or DDD. I'd say DDD, as I'm sure everyone HATES being CG'ed across stages.

Agreed. The only thing I have to add is that getting an fsmash to the face is, while a theoretical possibility, very rare even if you do screw up (well, unless you get your shield broken or something). The more potent punisher is the chain grab itself. Thanks to Dedede's impressive reach, if you mistime an attack or space yourself a bit poorly, he can get a grab in. When he gets a grab in, scary things happen.

 

[FlashGearz]

I think it might be Pit. His game is actually rather slow imo. His U-b looks huge, but is easily gimps if they are hit whie using it. The only things that are against him i the strong projectile game, but it's still 2/3.

 

[ice_cream_man]

ya i'm gonna go with dedede too. get caught in his chain grab and it's death for like 6 characters. up-b is probably one of the easiest moves to punish in the game, except for the fact that they can cancel it I guess. Fast characters just dance circles around him and he is hard to avoid projectiles with too.

 

[Starscream]

Funny how no actual discussion of the weeks character ever happens. Always just guessing of the next.

 

[Popertop]

You can also pepper him with quick aerials on his way up and end with a strong one or a grab for further punishment.

Edit: you know this thread is just for character guesses right? in the first post it says to discuss the characters in their corresponding threads.

 

[Grunt]

It's PIKACHU!

 

[HybridEntity]

It's easily Ike. The only doubt I have is that there isn't much to hate about being against Ike. Maybe he was referring to the raw power of Ike, which as he said can quickly turn a game around. Gimpable recovery, everyone loves to use him, gets owned by quick characters, and has a hard time with projectiles because hes too sluggish.

Ike without a doubt.

 

[MiraiGen]

After a bit of a delay, we've finally begun discussing the new character of the week. This character has some difficulty with some of the faster characters, as well as characters with strong projectile spamming games. This character's recovery seems great, and was quite intimidating when the game was first released, but now that the game has been out for longer we've come to realize just how easy this character's recovery can be to punish sometimes. Always be careful when you're playing against this character; even if you're winning, the game can turn around instant if you don't react fast enough. When all is said and done, this character can be fun to play with, but is rarely fun to play against.

Ike.

With some of the most powerful attacks (Read: every last godfargin one of them) he can KO you in a heartbeat, regardless of if you're winning. Get sloppy and Ike's got some heavy punishment.

I say Ike.

Only thing that has me stumped is "Play with/play against." I can kind of see it - with Ike you beat him around, get hit once, go flying away, recover, beat Ike around some more, get hit, repeat, finally KO him, he comes back with invincibility, hits you once and it's back to neck-and-neck. But it's kind of tough to wrap my head around.

 

[Popertop]

See, for me there's really nothing Ike has that infuriates me in any of his match ups.

DDD has a chaingrab that is annoying as hell.

 

[tedward2000]

Im going to have to say Pit.
Even though Ike's recovery is intimidating, at the release Pit's was all the rage. First off, he can fly then his up-b made him fly even more! Wow. Later on, it was found out, that if you shoot or hit Pit's shiny blue wings, he falls.

"This character has some difficulty with some of the faster characters, as well as characters with strong projectile spamming games."

On the projectile spamming games part, pit can spam too, and shield and Side-b and everything to stop/counter a projectile. What gets him is in his recovery, again spammers (fox /falco/another pit) will tear pit apart in the air with their projectile respectively.
Fast chr's can rack up damage rather quickly on pit, and once again break his wings, and he falls.
Also, get the opponent in the air, and Pit will juggle them to death. He controls the air, he has wings and they can glow.
A one sided match, can change quickly once pit gets them in the air. Not just air game but his ground game is strong too. His sliding Up-smash has good ground distance, and can mean death to those not expecting it. And the endless volley's of arrows and the worldly recognized side-b (Ya ya ya ya ya...), annoying as they are, game changers they be.

And who hasn't played pit just to try him out and have fun? I can personally say, I have. He has a fun bag of tricks, but people grown and moan with they find out the person they are playing against is Pit. You can't go anywhere with out hearing that Yayayayaya, and cringing to the sound.

In my book, #10 is Pit.

 

[AlexX]

See, for me there's really nothing Ike has that infuriates me in any of his match ups.

Noobs who do nothing but spam his f-smash and counter result in incredibly boring matches.

DDD has a chaingrab that is annoying as hell.

Dedede can use his own projectiles against campers, though.

 

[MiraiGen]

On the projectile spamming games part, pit can spam too, and shield and Side-b and everything to stop/counter a projectile. What gets him is in his recovery, again spammers (fox /falco/another pit) will tear pit apart in the air with their projectile respectively.

Now, see, you're just saying a perfect reason for him not to be #10. It just can't be Pit. He can proj spam just as well as most of the better ones, and his Shield easily deflects most projectiles.

I mean it could be Dedede since he's hard hitting enough to turn a game around if you get sloppy real fast, and his projectile (Waddle Dee Toss) isn't nearly fast enough to fix any sort of spam attack.

D3 and Ike are the best choices. Pit just doesn't apply.

 

[Testament27]

Its obviously ike. d3 doesnt have that much trouble against projectiles. pit is not even close.

edit: on second thought it could be bowser too. its bowser or Ike definitely

 

[Vaul]

The obvious answer is Ike. But SP stated that last week's hint was WAY too easy and he'll have to make it harder. I'm thinking this is gonna be a Week 8 situation; a character who just barely reaches the criteria. Ike is just way too easy. People were so convinced that number 8 was wario, who basically personified the hint, and lo and behold, it was Ganondorf. Nobody saw it coming. Those who believe its Ike are doing exactly what SP/the backroom want you to do, and I'm sure SP had this very detail in mind when writing the hint. If it were to be Ike...it'd just be wayyy too obvious.

Based off this week's hint, I think it's safe to say the character is a mid-heavy to heavy weight, most likely without an effective projectile game; this is all implied by 'having trouble with fast characters', 'can change the game in an instant', and 'trouble replying to spam'. It would appear that Ike and DDD fit the bill because of their 'intimidating' recoveries, which in reality, can be easily gimped. But for the reasons stated before, its likely not going to be Ike and DDD has a strong projectile game and I would never describe him as almost always not fun to play against. For characters like Ness, Sonic, Kirby, and Squirtle, big fat DDD is a dream come true.

I'm gonna go off (on?) a limb and predict its DK. He's got the frame, strength, and close combat game to fulfill these requirements. Although the intimidating recovery is a little bit of a stretch (though it does have some OBSCENE priority/SA frames), it can be gimped by spiking DK from the top, the timing of which is much easier said than done. His three spikes, obscene kill moves, and the gloriousness that is stage spiking can change the momentum in an instant. And from personal experience, with DK being an extremely fun and unique character to play as, I can also confidently say that nobody I can think of enjoys fighting a good DK. When you get owned by DK, its not because of his combo game or high technical skill or any means of SEEMINGLY justifying an 'acceptable loss', it's because the DK player, despite often taking many hints from the opponent, is smart enough to find and exploit the openings he or she needs, pull off a few hits which kill at ridiculously low percents, rinse and repeat. So while the recovery aspect might be a bit of a stretch, everything else fits perfectly (not to mention that there have been further stretches in the past...I mean c'mon...Ganondorf has a 'devastating' aerial game?).

My nominee for the totally random and WTF unexpected character goes to Bowser. He pretty much meets the criteria in the same manner as DK (albeit to a lesser extent), with his strength and Klaw able to determine the outcome of the game in seconds. So yea, DK, then Bowser. Ike is way too obvious.

 

[MiraiGen]

Wow.

Totally convinced. Bowser sounds great. He even fits in the criteria of "fun to play with but rarely to play against."

 

[Pure-???]

I find bowser very fun to play against. but this is probably because I main falco, who destroys him.

 

[Nelo Vergil]

The only characters I can see really meeting this would be Ike or Bowser, they fit the bill here the best

 

[Dry Bones]

i would say Pit, just because of the recovery comment. that, and Angel Ring can be very unfun to play against

 

[Oh Snap]

Next character is Pit?

Edit: Nevermind, not Pit. And defeinately not Zelda.

 

[old king coal]

clearly not bowser or dk (i think). when did people think dk's recovery was so good?

 

[WouW]

Funny how no actual discussion of the weeks character ever happens. Always just guessing of the next.

The character's discussion is in that character's thread.

 

[VirtualVoid]

Call me biased as an IC player but 10 does remind them a bit... UpB reaches really far and has invincibility frames (Nana) but if the edge is grabbed nana will almost always die and popo's recovery is really bad solo. They have some trouble against projectile spam, people hate to play against them (Chains) and one grab can give you a huge comeback.

Comments?

 

[biohazard930]

Call me biased as an IC player but 10 does remind them a bit... UpB reaches really far and has invincibility frames (Nana) but if the edge is grabbed nana will almost always die and popo's recovery is really bad solo. They have some trouble against projectile spam, people hate to play against them (Chains) and one grab can give you a huge comeback.

Comments?

I thought both Nana and Popo grabbed the edge.

 

[VirtualVoid]

I meant that if your oppoennt grabs the edge and you UpB nana will die.

 

[biohazard930]

I meant that if your oppoennt grabs the edge and you UpB nana will die.

I see. Well, I don't play much as ICs, so I can't speak much further. Sorry.

Also, that sucks.

 

[Vaul]

Ehhh...compared to the likes of Ike, DK and Bowser, IC's don't really have much of a problem against projectiles in the sense they can respond with their own. Ice shot can be desynced and blizzard's priority makes for a great ranged approach. And I wouldn't describe the IC's as having major disadvantages against fast characters. Although fast characters may be a little bit harder to grab, this is compensated by their (usually) light weight and are subject to general hammery. However, their chain grabs can change the match's momentum very quickly...

@biohazard: The ICs deserve no sympathy.

 

[comboking]

its ike

It can't be pit he has tons of ways to fight against projectile overb down b and stuff like that

 

[Gamekidadv]

Ike seems too obvious, but I can't think of who else it could be.

DK and Bowser never had recoveries that were considered great or intimidating in any way. Ike's on the other hand, with Aether and Quick Draw seemed hard to edgeguard at first, but we realized both can be gimped and he he has to choose between horizontal and vertical recovery.

DDD would seem to fit, except for the fact that he can camp back at projectile campers with Waddle Dee. Ike has no answers to projectiles.

Even if you have a stock up against an Ike, if your careless, a single f-smash could take you out at low percents. Always playing on guard, afraid that he might luck out, land a smash, and kill you at low percents isn't exactly fun.

Still, Ike fit the criteria a bit too well, there's probably another character I'm not thinking of.