SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[hichez50]

It should be called "Air Stomping".

.

I like this one. It should stay.

 

[IceDX]

It should be called "Air Stomping".

I like this one better.... but cant we just keep calling it Raising Dair it doesnt sound bad IMO

 

[manhunter098]

Nono. I think I said it was very hard to do out of hings with little shield stun. Like I suggested that you could do it against Falco's Jab, but it wouldn't be a very good idea because you'd just jump into his rapid A.

Falco should NEVER use his rapid A against Lucario, you can di it up and towards falco and d-air him easily, even if he only just starts doing the rapid jab.

 

[phi1ny3]

Some use it as a mixup so that they can condition you to not spotdodge their grab or things like that in the future, but yes, falco shouldn't do the full jab combo much.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Some use it as a mixup so that they can condition you to not spotdodge their grab or things like that in the future, but yes, falco shouldn't do the full jab combo much.

The shortest jab combo is completely safe on Lucario from what I've done.

 

[iRJi]

Got the matches with me and Bleachigo. Must say I got ***** in the set, though. Took him to game 3 xD. But it will be up a bit later today, or early tomorrow.

 

[Kitamerby]

The shortest jab combo is completely safe on Lucario from what I've done.

The shortest spinny hit? Are you sure? I thought there were four hits. I could've sworn there's enough time to SDI up and dair within 2-3 hits...

 

[BleachigoZX]

The shortest spinny hit? Are you sure? I thought there were four hits. I could've sworn there's enough time to SDI up and dair within 2-3 hits...

Well now that you mention it. I never tested it with SDI on the first jab...I mean you'd need godlike reflexes.

I know its relatively safe though, in the Falco Backroom a loooong time ago we tested who can win off the advantage which was -X on Falco. Very few attacks come out that fast and can reach Falco from that distance.

-X = lolz I ain't saying

 

[Kitamerby]

Well now that you mention it. I never tested it with SDI on the first jab...I mean you'd need godlike reflexes.

I know its relatively safe though, in the Falco Backroom a loooong time ago we tested who can win off the advantage which was -X on Falco. Very few attacks come out that fast and can reach Falco from that distance.

-X = lolz I ain't saying

Dair is 4 frames. Is that enough?

 

[BleachigoZX]

Dair is 4 frames. Is that enough?

The advantage is -3 so no.

I think Marth, MK, and ZSS (She can dodge/get around a jab with her Uair, its odd) are the only ones that we can't spam the jab combo on.

Edit: Yeah, RJ uses Luigi on me all the time. How could I forget.
I feel dumb, I'm going to test it a bit now

 

[Kitamerby]

The advantage is -3 so no.

I think Marth, MK, and ZSS (She can dodge/get around a jab with her Uair, its odd) are the only ones that we can't spam the jab combo on.

Luigi?

10nairs

 

[iRJi]

O.K. So I am home, but I am tired. I am going to start to try an upload these vids, and then im going to head to bed. should be up in the AM. And for the Jab combo, are you talking about the full aaa? because if you are you can SDI it and punish him before he finishes it. I am pretty sure the frame advantage might be wrong because I think it is greater then -3.

 

[phi1ny3]

Huh, that's odd, because neither marth or ZSS have a frame 3 aerial (at least ZSS uair doesn't, it's a frame 4 move). I'm sure it has to do with aerial mobility or something like that as well.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well I got back from my tournament. I didn't get to get videos though since my recording equipment wasn't working when I tested it in my room.

I did get to play Arty in a $5 MM. I got him to his last stock on Battlefield, and screwed up on frigate getting 3 stocked, I played really bad on Frigate.

It was well worth it, he gave me some pointers on the MU, again mentioning how Triangle Jumping>Dair. Also that Lucario should always finish his Jab combo against him, it's not worth it when he has a 2 frame jab. I was trying to AA>Grab and wasn't working since he was mashing the A button knowing it wouldn't work.

He defiantly knew the match-up from the info he told me. While I am a sub-par Lucario I have to say from my experience today and the info already listed I'm standing by my ratio of 50:50.

 

[hichez50]

So we dont have any move to combat it. Would it be pratical to stay above marth on stages like battlefiels, if you didn't ban it.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Huh, that's odd, because neither marth or ZSS have a frame 3 aerial (at least ZSS uair doesn't, it's a frame 4 move). I'm sure it has to do with aerial mobility or something like that as well.

Marth has Dolphin Slash.
I think.

 

[hichez50]

Marth has Dolphin Slash.
I think.

Its not that good in the air and If your on a platform you can see it coming.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Does that have anything at all to do with what I was talking about?

 

[phi1ny3]

Kind of, but we're talking about a scenario where falco happened to commit to the full yet smallest jab combo, so it's irrelevant.

 

[manhunter098]

When you d-air Falco's repeated jab, you actually escape its hitbox with SDI, and stall out above him when you d-air, so as long as we can di up there and d-air before his jab ends, it would be possible to hit him, Im not positive that it works on the shortest duration, but any cycle thereafter is certainly vulnerable.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Even if it IS escapable, you would have to have seen it coming to SDI up enough to escape and dair.
If you didn't, Its impossible. you have to start DI'ing from Jab 1.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Phil is right, in both posts, about the jab string, except Lucario can do a dair only if he SDI's Up and toward from Jab 1. I think RJ gets it on me in one of the videos.

But yeah Falco *****, I'm mad I didn't go to Kosha to do some winning. I really wanted to play some MD/VA!

 

[hichez50]

I think we are about done with falco nothing has changed really since the last time we disscused him. Also the snake graphic needs to be updated.

 

[iRJi]

Phil is right, in both posts, about the jab string, except Lucario can do a dair only if he SDI's Up and toward from Jab 1. I think RJ gets it on me in one of the videos.

But yeah Falco *****, I'm mad I didn't go to Kosha to do some winning. I really wanted to play some MD/VA!

Bleh. I told you to go >_>. I gave up in singles lolol. I was doing fine too, but I really didn't feel like playing anymore @_@

Edit: I am just waiting on videos before I tell people to give in the MU numbers. Should be up by tonight.

 

[iRJi]

Double posting.

Requesting final MU numbers.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Im going to put it as either 50-50, or 55-45 Falco.

 

[Rayku]

Im going to put it as either 50-50, or 55-45 Falco.

55:45 Falco

 

[IceDX]

55:45 Falco

I Agree

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Again from my experience against Arty, 50:50.

 

[RT]

50:50 overall.

 

[iRJi]

My vote is 55:45 Falco

Also, The vids are being uploaded as we speak. I must say, I did awful against him, and now after watching myself I know what I am doing wrong. Now, I am going to correct the problem. SOOOOO, when I see you on Friday Bleachigo, your going to lose =D.

 

[F1ZZ]

My vote is 50:50.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

definitly think 50:50, though a split of something like 47.5/52.5 would be fine with me

 

[phi1ny3]

^Pika numbers.

I think 55:45 Falco's favor, although stages certainly help ameliorate it.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

im just saying im not opposed to a split, since we seem to be split pretty well. i dont care either way, im fine with 45:55, though i dont necessarily agree with it :x

 

[F1ZZ]

Okay so here are the votes:

4 for 55:45 Falco
4 for 50:50

I didn't count Aurasmash's vote since he put either. Is he the deciding vote?

 

[phi1ny3]

I know I'm just kidding, to each his/her own on these numbers.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I still think its 55:45 Lucario's favor. Just think we need to get out of our bad habits, Powershield more, learn to outprioritize his stuff, learn our frame advantages, etc.

 

[culexus・wau]

From the discussion and only the discussion.


its 45-55 falcos favor, [I may not agree COMPLETELY with it though]


but... we really didn't discuss what we were supposed to do in the match-up... <<

also can someone explain to me what triangle jumping is? ._.

I only know of the MvC and Iamp/SWR variants.

 

[phi1ny3]

Actually, FWK has a point. We need to talk more about what Lucario should do to win.
I think you need to use jab/grab/utilt/DA to punish and set up for an opening at low percent. space him correctly when he feels like jabbing or grabbing, make sure you space fair and nair as well, you win in the air and when properly spaced.
Then there's phantasm to worry about T_T