SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[manhunter098]

You can also try to insert your aura sphere under his reflector for ultimate lulz. I think you can also punish his reflector with aura sphere if you bait it while you are airborne, but don't quote me on that one.

 

[hichez50]

You can also try to insert your aura sphere under his reflector for ultimate lulz. I think you can also punish his reflector with aura sphere if you bait it while you are airborne, but don't quote me on that one.

Well if your ariborne and not to close if you use AS in the air and fast fall you should be safe. Just watch how you land on the stage because the reflectorn is not that laggy and falco may be able to run and grab.

 

[G-Beast]

You can also try to insert your aura sphere under his reflector for ultimate lulz. I think you can also punish his reflector with aura sphere if you bait it while you are airborne, but don't quote me on that one.

i think i just said that in my previous post....

it works... but its VERY risky.... it really requires the falco the mess up his timing...

although with AS's changing velocity as our aura increases that can mess them up however...

 

[phi1ny3]

I'll just tell you guys straight up after my experince at GC, if the Falco wants a chance to move ahead in the tournament, he'll have to play gay. Lucario nearly owns falco when he doesn't, it's almost a 60:40.
Oh, and DA is a really good setup move.

 

[Aurasmash14]

??

no no no. if you guys say this is 60:40 luc, ill be 100% sure this MU is chocked with more-than-acceptable bias.

and im already 99.999% sure :/

 

[iRJi]

??

no no no. if you guys say this is 60:40 luc, ill be 100% sure this MU is chocked with more-than-acceptable bias.

and im already 99.999% sure :/

I am agreeing with the following statement above, because saying this MU is a 60:40 in Lucario's favor is bogus.

Falco has a jab that is flat out better then ours, Lasers that make's him top 2 best campers in the game, and not to mention that his lasers if hit at close range combo's into decent killing moves, and a Fantasm that has a **** ton of invincibility frames and on our part only having 2 viable ways of stopping it. One of the ways (d tilt) can be easily avoided because all he has to do is aim above it, and Usmash he can see coming before it comes out and cancel on the distance. If people honestly think our close range game is 100% better then his their thinking wrong. We do have the advantage up close, but it's not by a huge margin, and to get that close to a smart Falco all the time to BEGIN with take's 1/2 the match to do since he has the ability to camp the balls off of you. I am not a player on theory, so I hate it when people say "What if the Falco approaches you?" or "What if the Falco does this or that". Because I can easily turn it around and say "What if the doesn't approach you until you are in kill percents?" (Which the Falco should be doing anyway) and also "What if the Falco DIDN'T do this and that?" Time to talk about facts and weed out the make believe non-sense. Falco has the capability to camp the **** out of you the whole game, hands down. As much as I am a believer on our approach game, our approaches =/= his get away options. They are in fact too great for this MU. The only TRUE things we have on Falco is we can live for a while due to our weight class vs. his killing power, and us getting stronger so when he is trying to go for the kill, we can punish him hard if he messes up. But Falco's kill moves are decently hard to punish to begin with, and he has faster options to punish if we are the ones missing. Sounds like a 60:40 to me in Falco's favor you can say 55:45 as well, but it's not even, and it's sure not in our favor.

 

[Rayku]

if you keep a close eye and bait the phantasm and psheild, lucario can definitly punish. i did this a whole lot back when i used lucario to punish falco. as long as you condition him to use phantasm, just psheild his lasers while approaching, then start running back the other way, pshield the phantasm, and grab or fair

If you're playing a good Falco that knows how to cancel the phantasm at the end of it near the ground, therefore having 0 landing lag, then no, you cannot punish him.

 

[IceDX]

oh u guys discussing falco ? i just played larry yest i say the MU is 50/50 at the most, falcoz Bair is a pain X/ plus u can get camped at some stages.

but thats IMO.

things u can do to falco to get ur game agaist him better( im sure lots of u know of this but im putting it anyway )

* Uptilt his phantasm, unless u overpredict if u do u can just upsmash.

*smash DI out of jabs into Dair.

* Bait his reflector on the air and punish.or if ur good timing things hit below the reflector with AS.

im sure im missing something ill edit once i remember it =/.

*

 

[RT]

Matchup is 50:50 overall imo, maybe 55:45 at most. I remember playing Sethlon's Falco in friendlies once and he vowed never to use Falco against me ever again, LOL.

 

[iRJi]

You guy's who are posting numbers are really not giving viable information on why you think the MU are the numbers stated. Everyone who is posting or posted, please say WHY it's that number, in a lot of detail.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Falco?

What about him?

 

[iRJi]

Falco?

What about him?

Finally Sergio >_>. Just post your thoughts about the MU, and the number of the MU. Also, for the love of god be detailed in your explanation LOL.

 

[F1ZZ]

Everything I would of said has already been stated but, I believe the MU is 50:50.

 

[iRJi]

Wth? Nothings been said yet. All I have seen so far is Its a 50:50 because I played my friend and I beat him O,.....,O. I am dying for some details on why people are saying what they are saying, because I am not going to close the MU and move on until we get some good info out of some people lol.

 

[F1ZZ]

Sorry RJ but in this MU I am of no use. The only time I ever get to play Falcos is at tournaments and I still rarely play them in tournaments.

 

[BleachigoZX]

I wrote alot and it got deleted, I`ll do it again tomorrow. I`m sorry.

Bah...I suck!

 

[Zucco]

Use Ness to beat Falco, that is all.

Best falco on the East Coast! tell us your knowledge of the matchup!

 

[iRJi]

Use Ness to beat Falco, that is all.

Best falco on the East Coast! tell us your knowledge of the matchup!

Then again, Falco does have a 0 to death on Ness. Bleachego didn't know about it though LOL. Past is past however. I just want this MU done with some good information.

 

[Zucco]

lol I just have to bring it up. I doubt ill even be using Ness unless I really need to next time.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I am agreeing with the following statement above, because saying this MU is a 60:40 in Lucario's favor is bogus.

I agree with this.

Falco has a jab that is flat out better then ours, Lasers that make's him top 2 best campers in the game, and not to mention that his lasers if hit at close range combo's into decent killing moves, and a Fantasm that has a **** ton of invincibility frames and on our part only having 2 viable ways of stopping it. One of the ways (d tilt) can be easily avoided because all he has to do is aim above it, and Usmash he can see coming before it comes out and cancel on the distance. If people honestly think our close range game is 100% better then his their thinking wrong. We do have the advantage up close, but it's not by a huge margin, and to get that close to a smart Falco all the time to BEGIN with take's 1/2 the match to do since he has the ability to camp the balls off of you.

His jab is better than Lucario's, his Fsmash is faster than Lucs, Lucario's outrages his it's slight but he has that advantage. Up close we still have a notable advantage on the ground, in the air it's a joke for Falco. Falco has Nair and Bair which are good in the air, but otherwise Lucario can handle the rest of his air moveset. Don't fall for his frame traps with lasers, if he's short hopping close when I'm at kill % I'm 90% sure he's going to try and set up, SHL->DACUS. I've learned this while playing against Falco's and as him, it is a kill set-up if you fall for it. IF not he leaves himself open for a bit. Otherwise Falco is just hoping your going to run into his Fsmash or not avoid normal Usmash for kills. Bair works in the air as a killer for Falco, but honestly Lucario can space correctly to avoid this one. Because of this Lucario can take adtange of his Aura buff better and can kill Falco at a much earlier percentage.

I keep telling people, learn to power shield lasers on reaction. Falco's lasers become more mitigated if people can learn how to do this well. I've seen players who can do this on reaction and it makes his camp game less threatening, it's still godly good but trust me it's not lolrape like some people are making it out to be.

If Falco is running away with Phantasm all day, he's playing a guessing game of how he is running away. It's not going to take people 4 minutes to catch good Falco's if they play smart, it's all about prediction and spacing. While Lucario's punish game is bad he can punish Falco if you pay attention to sounds and the distance between Falco and yourself.

I am not a player on theory, so I hate it when people say "What if the Falco approaches you?" or "What if the Falco does this or that". Because I can easily turn it around and say "What if the doesn't approach you until you are in kill percents?" (Which the Falco should be doing anyway) and also "What if the Falco DIDN'T do this and that?" Time to talk about facts and weed out the make believe non-sense. Falco has the capability to camp the **** out of you the whole game, hands down.

I'm expecting people should know Falco isn't going to approach unless he has to or he wants to go for a kill. I can't really see Falco trying to approach a whole lot unless we can somehow get an FU answer to his Lasers.

As much as I am a believer on our approach game, our approaches =/= his get away options. They are in fact too great for this MU.

I disagree, I think our approach is barely weaker or on par with his get away options. Dtilt if he does it low, Usmash if we can predict even if he cancels it, it stopped him from running away, grab or pivot grab I've seen players learn the spacing and timing to do this, it's certainingly humanly possible to do this.

The only TRUE things we have on Falco is we can live for a while due to our weight class vs. his killing power, and us getting stronger so when he is trying to go for the kill, we can punish him hard if he messes up. But Falco's kill moves are decently hard to punish to begin with, and he has faster options to punish if we are the ones missing. Sounds like a 60:40 to me in Falco's favor you can say 55:45 as well, but it's not even, and it's sure not in our favor.

He is faster, has a camp game that is one of the best in the game, and we can slight troubles with his exacpe tactics. We still have decent approach options, he can kill him eariler, and we beat him upclose.

Honestly I think this is a 50:50.

 

[phi1ny3]

lol I need to look over the TL, Diddy, and Marth MU, those really owned me at GC.

I played Asian Mario's Falco a bit, but he doesn't know the MU very well and I beat him. I should try to play Nerd's Falco or Bladewise's Falco, both of those are way campier.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't think I play Falco even remotely campy enough to be considered good. ;_;

 

[Aurasmash14]

I retract my old statement of 55:45 lucario.

I believe its 55:45 falco. 50:50 at best.
as was already mentioned, he camps like hell. unless your lucky, and immediately fire off an AS from a SH, you wont be able to regain air control anytime soon. the only real way to solve this problem is Counter picking. but on a neutral stage, your best bet would be YI. iirc the tilting platform and shy guys give relief from a constant laser storm. fighting him up close is actually easy. His jab is his only good tool for CQC. and even then, lucario can easily stay out of its range. Lucario;s tilts can easily beat falco, and the only OOS punishment you need to worry about is a boost smash. however, approaching in itself is a major pain...... the best way to catch him is to get him while he tries to escape, Phantasm can actually be caught by a variety of moves. not just dtilt and Upsmash. If predicted, you can actually jab him out of it. as well as catch with uptilt, or even an aerial.

lolwut. what am i talking for?? all you guys know this already >_>

 

[G-Beast]

Brinstar is an excellent stage to take falco to, it completely ruins his whole "stay away so ima shoot mah lazerz" and theres like 3 things on taht stage that eat up his lasers

 

[phi1ny3]

I think a lot of people underestimate their tools for hitting phantasm. Granted, Falco will try to make it as hard to punish as possible while he's moving, but nair, DA, usmash, fsmash (this will never happen against a good falco), dtilt, ftilt, AS, and utilt (I think) can be used, and the reason why dtilt is pretty good for the most part is that the hitbox actually extends to an area about Lucario's head level (it's a very odd hitbox), so if Falco plans to have a canceled phantasm, he will get hit by a well-timed dtilt.

 

[iRJi]

I think a lot of people underestimate their tools for hitting phantasm. Granted, Falco will try to make it as hard to punish as possible while he's moving, but nair, DA, usmash, fsmash (this will never happen against a good falco), dtilt, ftilt, AS, and utilt (I think) can be used, and the reason why dtilt is pretty good for the most part is that the hitbox actually extends to an area about Lucario's head level (it's a very odd hitbox), so if Falco plans to have a canceled phantasm, he will get hit by a well-timed dtilt.

You sure it's that many moves? o_o

 

[RT]

It's a lot of moves, if not all of them...or at least most of them. Someone could test all the moves out if they want to, but if you use a move and it isn't during the initial invincibility, it'll probably stop Falco.

Heck, a jab can stop it. JAB. Utilt does, I did it accidentally once on Falco instead of usmash. Pretty sure fair does....hmm, maybe it is every move, LOL.

And of course, you can grab.

 

[phi1ny3]

The problem is hitting them in the middle of it. Nair I think would work because most character nairs tend to cancel it, the sex kick factor combined with the speed of nair makes it a natural enemy to phantasm usually.
usmash has a similar concept, but gl trying to hit a falco with that.
dtilt will hit more often than people think, if the falco is trying to "aim above your head" he risks phantasm receiving some afterlag, and most falcos want that canceled effect, plus dtilt's hitbox from what I've seen is pretty big. Someone mentioned utilt being able to stop it, so I went with that (if it does, that's probably the best punisher to use). I'd have to see if DA, utilt, and when AS is capable of stopping it.

 

[D. Disciple]

Every move except DT can stop Falco's Phantasm, you can be charging your AS and it will stop him. If the Falco isn't silent lasering me, or if I'm not Perfect Shielding his lasers, I either dtilt, utilt, ftilt, or jab them. You have to think of it like Melee if they phantasm, jab them then attack.

 

[phi1ny3]

The problem with those "fast movement" specials is that the hitbox is actually behind their hurtbox, so if you have a move that isn't a weak damage move, unless you're in his invincible part, most moves will knock it, it's just the combination of the laser + phantasm produces lots of confusion and it makes it far harder to punish.

 

[IceDX]

I think a lot of people underestimate their tools for hitting phantasm. Granted, Falco will try to make it as hard to punish as possible while he's moving, but nair, DA, usmash, fsmash (this will never happen against a good falco), dtilt, ftilt, AS, and utilt (I think) can be used, and the reason why dtilt is pretty good for the most part is that the hitbox actually extends to an area about Lucario's head level (it's a very odd hitbox), so if Falco plans to have a canceled phantasm, he will get hit by a well-timed dtilt.

well just bout anything CAN take falco out of the phantasm but the easyest one that u can actually do on reaction IMO is up tilt but u have to have ur back facing falco otherwise it prob wont work.. i still need to try Dtilt tho

of course is a dif story if ur edgarding it......

The problem with those "fast movement" specials is that the hitbox is actually behind their hurtbox, so if you have a move that isn't a weak damage move, unless you're in his invincible part, most moves will knock it, it's just the combination of the laser + phantasm produces lots of confusion and it makes it far harder to punish.

this is so true in this situation i belive u shoud just either try aproching from above or be ready to spot dodge and try punishing afterwards

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Train yourselves to perfect shield his lasers.

DI his Usmash in his direction (you shouldn't die until like above 120% ish or more from a fresh USmash).

Roll too much and he will take advantage of you.

You should be able to DI his pillar spike I mean there's at least some hitstun frames, right? The best thing you can do then is probably roll away or grab (if you try to hit him even with a jab you might hit him while he has SA frames in his grab). I've encountered some mixups where the Falco I was fighting walked behind me and grabbed me, so be careful here.

If you get caught in his jab you can SDI up over him and hit him with an air attack of your choice.

If he tries to kill you with an air attack it should be pretty obvious and he runs the risk of running right into your DAir. His BAir is his best air attack to kill you (outside of DAir at low %s), but remember he is a fast faller and you can either air dodge or DAir air stall when required.

The more frames you give Falco to Phantasm (ex. rolling towards him) the more he will happily take advantage of that.

Oh and also our FAir hits him out of Phantasm if we're above him.

I'm pretty sure its still around 55:45 Lucario's favor, just gotta play the match up right.

 

[culexus・wau]

To fight falco you really need to be able to react quickly.

The worse your reaction speed is the easier it will be for falco to **** you.

He has no guranteed kill set-ups and if you don't mess up its hard for him to kill you.

however, if you have slow reactions....

Dthrow to Dacus/Running Upsmash can possibly hurt you.

Dash Attack to UpAir can get you

SHL to Upsmash can get you

and of course Phantasm will be easier to abuse.

It is absolutely required for you to have good reaction speed or falco will simply eat you alive.

 

[iRJi]

To fight falco you really need to be able to react quickly.

The worse your reaction speed is the easier it will be for falco to **** you.

He has no guranteed kill set-ups and if you don't mess up its hard for him to kill you.

however, if you have slow reactions....

Dthrow to Dacus/Running Upsmash can possibly hurt you.

Dash Attack to UpAir can get you

SHL to Upsmash can get you

and of course Phantasm will be easier to abuse.

It is absolutely required for you to have good reaction speed or falco will simply eat you alive.

False, actually. lasers have enough hitstun to combo into other things, the best noted one is a Usmash.

Yes I am going to say it here since its obvious, you need to Perfect shield his lasers, but like i said, that's obvious. Perfect shielding is one of the most important things in the game, so you should be doing it anyway. However, It still doesn't change the fact he has massive stage control.

 

[culexus・wau]

False, actually. lasers have enough hitstun to combo into other things, the best noted one is a Usmash.

Yes I am going to say it here since its obvious, you need to Perfect shield his lasers, but like i said, that's obvious. Perfect shielding is one of the most important things in the game, so you should be doing it anyway. However, It still doesn't change the fact he has massive stage control.

really? I've ussually been able to shield it

perhaps they're not spacing it right.

I'm pretty sure that you still need good reaction speed to react to phantasm and such though <<

that definitely cannot be false.

 

[phi1ny3]

actually, that depends, he has to hit you with the silent laser if he wants to usmash, and that has some limited range that if you go into the dubbed "safe zone", he has trouble killing.

 

[IceDX]

really? I've ussually been able to shield it

perhaps they're not spacing it right.

I'm pretty sure that you still need good reaction speed to react to phantasm and such though <<

that definitely cannot be false.

its true they can set up a upsmash with a lasser, but i think they have to hit it wile ur in the air that gives enough hitstun to get hit...

 

[Rayku]

False, actually. lasers have enough hitstun to combo into other things, the best noted one is a Usmash.

If you are falling, or in the air in any way, and you get hit by a laser, you will get upsmashed

If you are on the ground, and get hit by a laser, upsmash will connect with your shield.

 

[iRJi]

its true they can set up a upsmash with a lasser, but i think they have to hit it wile ur in the air that gives enough hitstun to get hit...

If you are falling, or in the air in any way, and you get hit by a laser, you will get upsmashed

If you are on the ground, and get hit by a laser, upsmash will connect with your shield.

That, actually sounds right. ^^ this.

 

[culexus・wau]

If anything I can see this being slight advantage falco.

55-45 is completely fine seeing that we get outspeed by him and that its hard to build momentum fast VS Him.

On the flipside we outlast him and its hard for him to land a killmove if we're grounded.

if anything RJ may I ask what your gameplan for defeating falco is?

I'm curious seeing what you think lucario can actually do to falco.

And another thing, may I ask what our order of the match-ups is? ><