phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Oh yeah, don't let him get a grab on you at low percents, he'll dthrow -> all sorts of painful aerials.
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SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess
- Thread starter #HBC | Red Ryu
- Start date
hichez50
Smash Lord
Cant he use 2-3 uptilts then go into aerials.
Also have we discussed shiroken(how ever you spell it)?
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Yes, if you know how to SDI luigi's jab, it's going to make your life waaaaaay easier.
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
Luigi Matchup.
Yet a character who is still misunderstood on weather or not where he stands. Luigi is a hard character to actually fight face to face. In the air, Luigi has a flat advantage. His Bair will out-range any attack you can throw at him from the air and trying to trade with him doesn't help either since his attacks do more damage then Lucario's. Luigi cannot approach you from underneath, because of Lucario's Bair, So he will try to swipe you from the side. On the floor, you have a slight advantage for your tilts and other sources of attacks out range his, but be weary on following up your attacks because he can break out of potential combos quite easily.
Luigi actually has no followup's and pure combos on Lucario. Lucario's ability to slide out of attacks makes it hard for Luigi to also follow up anything that might be a combo on normal characters. The best bet he would be able to do is to Dthrow you at low %'s and then try to bait you into getting hit by another. Jumping out of most of his common follow ups will solve this problem, but keep in mind that you will have to switch it up to keep your opponent guessing on what you might do. Luigi also has the potential to kill Lucario at retardedly early percents' Lucario can Die to an angle'd Fsmash around 120 with proper DI. He die's earlier if you have improper Di (Obviously) Luigi's UpB can kill Lucario if he hits you around the 50% mark. Dsmash will kill late because of how you can input DI into that move, and Up smash around 135-145%.
In the projectile section, Luigi's is awful. AS beats Fireball out, and even without AS fireball isn't a scary thing. Luigi will most likely use them just for anti-air approaches.
Luigi's UpB
I want to clarify something right now about this. Jab > UpB is not a combo on every character, that is only a rumor. Allow me to explain:
Luigi's first jab has 3 different hit boxes, each sending a character at a set distance and at a set angle, despite of damage. At the end of Luigi's first jab, it will send you at a 30ish degree angle. IN the middle of the jab it will send you at a 60ish degree angle. At the very close range Jab, it will send you at a 90 degree angle. The 90 degree angle is what makes character fall into a potential UpB combo. Since it is a set distance, DI is not a variable after the first jab, so saying "You can DI it to avoid it" is a myth. The issue when this information was found, was that character falling speed was somehow left out. Now that is what makes Jab>UpB doesn't combo. Some characters fall too fast and can shield the the UpB. Other characters fall too slow, and because of that it gives enough time to DI away or into Luigi to make it miss. Lucario is one of the characters that fall too slow, so don't get caught by it >_>.
Gimping section:
Luigi has a good gimping game, not to mention a really good recovery. He can follow you out to death lines and come back without dying. Just a heads up.
To say that this matchup is a 55:45 is actually to me under estimating what Luigi can do. The matchup should be around the 50:50 section.
Edit: I have actually calmed down since the little incident that happened about a week ago. I will show up and post around again.
No one is a leader btw. I never took the leading roll for revamping the boards. All I did was just suggest it, and people wanted to do it also. I don't see how one person can lead something that is suppose to be a community effort to run.
Anyway about the Punish guide. I actually took the liberty of almost finishing it on my own. A few days ago DJ posted about making your own playstyle and how the punish guide is not necessary. I wouldn't agree with you more about how people should create their own way of playing, but that is not the purpose of that guide. The guide is simply to accumulate options that people might have missed or not thought of. It is in no way to create a set way of playing for every Lucario. Things you might find in that guide might be interesting, or something no one has noticed or knew about. Thats pretty much what the guide is all about. An example is When I did the DK section of it, I didn't know that DK's Fsmash is punishable with Lucario's Fsmash if you were to Perfect shield DK's Fsmash at any range.
So to capitalize on DJ's post, it is very important to create and find your own way of playing, but it is also important to know universal punish options that can be used in what situation.
Yet a character who is still misunderstood on weather or not where he stands. Luigi is a hard character to actually fight face to face. In the air, Luigi has a flat advantage. His Bair will out-range any attack you can throw at him from the air and trying to trade with him doesn't help either since his attacks do more damage then Lucario's. Luigi cannot approach you from underneath, because of Lucario's Bair, So he will try to swipe you from the side. On the floor, you have a slight advantage for your tilts and other sources of attacks out range his, but be weary on following up your attacks because he can break out of potential combos quite easily.
Luigi actually has no followup's and pure combos on Lucario. Lucario's ability to slide out of attacks makes it hard for Luigi to also follow up anything that might be a combo on normal characters. The best bet he would be able to do is to Dthrow you at low %'s and then try to bait you into getting hit by another. Jumping out of most of his common follow ups will solve this problem, but keep in mind that you will have to switch it up to keep your opponent guessing on what you might do. Luigi also has the potential to kill Lucario at retardedly early percents' Lucario can Die to an angle'd Fsmash around 120 with proper DI. He die's earlier if you have improper Di (Obviously) Luigi's UpB can kill Lucario if he hits you around the 50% mark. Dsmash will kill late because of how you can input DI into that move, and Up smash around 135-145%.
In the projectile section, Luigi's is awful. AS beats Fireball out, and even without AS fireball isn't a scary thing. Luigi will most likely use them just for anti-air approaches.
Luigi's UpB
I want to clarify something right now about this. Jab > UpB is not a combo on every character, that is only a rumor. Allow me to explain:
Luigi's first jab has 3 different hit boxes, each sending a character at a set distance and at a set angle, despite of damage. At the end of Luigi's first jab, it will send you at a 30ish degree angle. IN the middle of the jab it will send you at a 60ish degree angle. At the very close range Jab, it will send you at a 90 degree angle. The 90 degree angle is what makes character fall into a potential UpB combo. Since it is a set distance, DI is not a variable after the first jab, so saying "You can DI it to avoid it" is a myth. The issue when this information was found, was that character falling speed was somehow left out. Now that is what makes Jab>UpB doesn't combo. Some characters fall too fast and can shield the the UpB. Other characters fall too slow, and because of that it gives enough time to DI away or into Luigi to make it miss. Lucario is one of the characters that fall too slow, so don't get caught by it >_>.
Gimping section:
Luigi has a good gimping game, not to mention a really good recovery. He can follow you out to death lines and come back without dying. Just a heads up.
To say that this matchup is a 55:45 is actually to me under estimating what Luigi can do. The matchup should be around the 50:50 section.
Edit: I have actually calmed down since the little incident that happened about a week ago. I will show up and post around again.
No one is a leader btw. I never took the leading roll for revamping the boards. All I did was just suggest it, and people wanted to do it also. I don't see how one person can lead something that is suppose to be a community effort to run.
Anyway about the Punish guide. I actually took the liberty of almost finishing it on my own. A few days ago DJ posted about making your own playstyle and how the punish guide is not necessary. I wouldn't agree with you more about how people should create their own way of playing, but that is not the purpose of that guide. The guide is simply to accumulate options that people might have missed or not thought of. It is in no way to create a set way of playing for every Lucario. Things you might find in that guide might be interesting, or something no one has noticed or knew about. Thats pretty much what the guide is all about. An example is When I did the DK section of it, I didn't know that DK's Fsmash is punishable with Lucario's Fsmash if you were to Perfect shield DK's Fsmash at any range.
So to capitalize on DJ's post, it is very important to create and find your own way of playing, but it is also important to know universal punish options that can be used in what situation.
HK Donut of the Blue Fire
Smash Ace
it can if its tipped im 100% sure
F1ZZ
Smash Lord
RJ is back! *gets up and starts dancing*
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
Lucario's Fsmash? Or Luigi's. If you are talking about Luigi's you can be right.
The_Bear735
Smash Journeyman
If you're playing someone who isn't complete trash, Luigi's Fsmash can (and will) KO really early.
hichez50
Smash Lord
I was talking about luigi
The_Bear735
Smash Journeyman
Luigi's Fsmash can kill at 80 ish.
Aurasmash14
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 1,540
Luigi Matchup.
Yet a character who is still misunderstood on weather or not where he stands. Luigi is a hard character to actually fight face to face. In the air, Luigi has a flat advantage. His Bair will out-range any attack you can throw at him from the air and trying to trade with him doesn't help either since his attacks do more damage then Lucario's. Luigi cannot approach you from underneath, because of Lucario's Bair, So he will try to swipe you from the side. On the floor, you have a slight advantage for your tilts and other sources of attacks out range his, but be weary on following up your attacks because he can break out of potential combos quite easily. Actually not really a Flat Advantage. We have something that out ranges anything Luigi can throw. AS <3 . Also spacing properly can make Lucario hold his own against a madcap aerial crazy weegee. striking with the aura only allows for good knock back and extra damage. You seem to be the one underestimating lucario here. Luigi's power in the air can be cut if you can shoot him down. something Luigi cant do to us. Further testing says BAS clanks with fireball above 50% while AS plows through them. remember that AS counts into Luca's aerial game. Being an Auraspherey (lol milln reference) Lucario helps in this matchup.
Luigi actually has no followup's and pure combos on Lucario. Lucario's ability to slide out of attacks makes it hard for Luigi to also follow up anything that might be a combo on normal characters. The best bet he would be able to do is to Dthrow you at low %'s and then try to bait you into getting hit by another. Jumping out of most of his common follow ups will solve this problem, but keep in mind that you will have to switch it up to keep your opponent guessing on what you might do. Luigi also has the potential to kill Lucario at retardedly early percents' Lucario can Die to an angle'd Fsmash around 120 with proper DI. He die's earlier if you have improper Di (Obviously) Luigi's UpB can kill Lucario if he hits you around the 50% mark. Dsmash will kill late because of how you can input DI into that move, and Up smash around 135-145%.
In the projectile section, Luigi's is awful. AS beats Fireball out, and even without AS fireball isn't a scary thing. Luigi will most likely use them just for anti-air approaches.
Luigi's UpB
I want to clarify something right now about this. Jab > UpB is not a combo on every character, that is only a rumor. Allow me to explain:
Luigi's first jab has 3 different hit boxes, each sending a character at a set distance and at a set angle, despite of damage. At the end of Luigi's first jab, it will send you at a 30ish degree angle. IN the middle of the jab it will send you at a 60ish degree angle. At the very close range Jab, it will send you at a 90 degree angle. The 90 degree angle is what makes character fall into a potential UpB combo. Since it is a set distance, DI is not a variable after the first jab, so saying "You can DI it to avoid it" is a myth. The issue when this information was found, was that character falling speed was somehow left out. Now that is what makes Jab>UpB doesn't combo. Some characters fall too fast and can shield the the UpB. Other characters fall too slow, and because of that it gives enough time to DI away or into Luigi to make it miss. Lucario is one of the characters that fall too slow, so don't get caught by it >_>.
Gimping section:
Luigi has a good gimping game, not to mention a really good recovery. He can follow you out to death lines and come back without dying. Just a heads up.
Of course his recovery is also predictable. its aim is a bit crude as it either only goes Up or to the side despite the massive range it can be easy to gimp Luigi. really now RJ if Luigi follows us to the death lines Lucario will have the Final word. Besides Luigi while he CAN get back on the stage from the blastlines, will not be willing to risk it.
To say that this matchup is a 55:45 is actually to me under estimating what Luigi can do. The matchup should be around the 50:50 section.
I still maintain 55/45. AS makes the difference imo.
Edit: I have actually calmed down since the little incident that happened about a week ago. I will show up and post around again.
Yay
No one is a leader btw. I never took the leading roll for revamping the boards. All I did was just suggest it, and people wanted to do it also. I don't see how one person can lead something that is suppose to be a community effort to run.
Want proof you leaving caused the (temporary) death of the boards? read the past posts.
Anyway about the Punish guide. I actually took the liberty of almost finishing it on my own. A few days ago DJ posted about making your own playstyle and how the punish guide is not necessary. I wouldn't agree with you more about how people should create their own way of playing, but that is not the purpose of that guide. The guide is simply to accumulate options that people might have missed or not thought of. It is in no way to create a set way of playing for every Lucario. Things you might find in that guide might be interesting, or something no one has noticed or knew about. Thats pretty much what the guide is all about. An example is When I did the DK section of it, I didn't know that DK's Fsmash is punishable with Lucario's Fsmash if you were to Perfect shield DK's Fsmash at any range.
So to capitalize on DJ's post, it is very important to create and find your own way of playing, but it is also important to know universal punish options that can be used in what situation.
I have a couple of disagreements with these statments. otherwise I agree wholeheartedly. Im glad your back RJ!
The_Bear735
Smash Journeyman
didn't you think you should be the forum mod RJ?
Alus
Smash Champion
Not if you keep "pissing" him off...
F1ZZ
Smash Lord
Can we all please play nicely know and stop the fighting? *crosses fingers and hopes it stops*
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Soooo, final MU numbers? I think it's near wrap-up time.
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
I still call it a 50:50 matchup.
I won't get as pissed off as I did before. To much **** was happening at one time, and I couldn't take it. I had some emergencies that I had to take care of, and also recently my house was robbed. I did also state before hand that I was going to be a bit moody because of the events and emergencies that was happening (Its about a few pages back if you look in this thread)
I would love to become mod for the Lucario boards of course, but obviously my irry mood makes people see other wise, and personally I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking that. If anything though, I will continue to clean up this place a little. I will also just ignore potential information or statements that can possibly piss me off in any way. After all, that is what the ignore feature is for.
I won't get as pissed off as I did before. To much **** was happening at one time, and I couldn't take it. I had some emergencies that I had to take care of, and also recently my house was robbed. I did also state before hand that I was going to be a bit moody because of the events and emergencies that was happening (Its about a few pages back if you look in this thread)
I would love to become mod for the Lucario boards of course, but obviously my irry mood makes people see other wise, and personally I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking that. If anything though, I will continue to clean up this place a little. I will also just ignore potential information or statements that can possibly piss me off in any way. After all, that is what the ignore feature is for.
Aurasmash14
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 1,540
:D the important thing is you came back. Now we can get back to work instead of Respamming the place.
oh and i still maintain 55/45 XD <3
oh and i still maintain 55/45 XD <3
The_Bear735
Smash Journeyman
I'll be pissed if this match up gets anything below 55-45. It's not even in any sense of the word, and it's more 60-40 imo. Luigi's not a threat if you know how to space well with AS.
HK Donut of the Blue Fire
Smash Ace
AvoiD
Smash Lord
I honestly don't see how the Falco matchup is 55-45 Lucario's favor.
I read the explanation topic, that needs to be updated alot, and some of the people who posted in it, weren't posting enough/the right info for Falco.
It should either be 55-45 Falco, or call for a rediscussion.
I read the explanation topic, that needs to be updated alot, and some of the people who posted in it, weren't posting enough/the right info for Falco.
It should either be 55-45 Falco, or call for a rediscussion.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
While people are still shouting numbers, let's get a vote for next MU. I heard F1ZZ say sheik, is that what we should go after next?
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
I say we should do sonic in the advent of him popping up like a lot since last tier list.
Sheik isn't really a problem. but I probably only say that because I play rawr. all the time <.<
besides I want to know if that thing that makes the match-up super heavily in our favor that I heard about a while back that was kept a secret is actually true or not.
Sheik isn't really a problem. but I probably only say that because I play rawr. all the time <.<
besides I want to know if that thing that makes the match-up super heavily in our favor that I heard about a while back that was kept a secret is actually true or not.
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
this really really REALLY irks my curiosity.
Aurasmash14
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 1,540
I vote Sonic
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
more numbers plz? I got like 3, my vote personally is 55:45 tbh.
Aurasmash14
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 1,540
I STILL maintain 55/45 lucario.
@ Kuro Zero. You have teh Lazah's but Lucario beats you up close (but out of jab range) . (and no chaingrab
) ) simple as that. I main both of them. Lucario wins.
@ Kuro Zero. You have teh Lazah's but Lucario beats you up close (but out of jab range) . (and no chaingrab
) ) simple as that. I main both of them. Lucario wins.
F1ZZ
Smash Lord
I vote 55/45 Lucario as well.
Sheik I just seem to have trouble with but if everyone wants to do Sonic than I am fine with that.
Sheik I just seem to have trouble with but if everyone wants to do Sonic than I am fine with that.
55:45 in Lucario's favor is my final vote for Luigi.
As for Sonic, I think that it's going to end up being 60:40 in Lucario's favor. Pretty much everything we have out-prioritizes him as far as I know. Speed is the only advantage that Sonic has in this MU. I think that it's safe to say that we have a clear advantage.
As for Sonic, I think that it's going to end up being 60:40 in Lucario's favor. Pretty much everything we have out-prioritizes him as far as I know. Speed is the only advantage that Sonic has in this MU. I think that it's safe to say that we have a clear advantage.
HK Donut of the Blue Fire
Smash Ace
Zelda >_>; is my vote
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Let's put a steak smile on that face...
Sonic is a go!
Sonic is a go!
F1ZZ
Smash Lord
Phil the picture above would be perfect if the Joker was saying your too slow. lol
LordoftheMorning
Smash Champion
The term is "piques my curiosity". "Irk" means "to annoy".
I just got on a soapbox in the Sonic boards. I think it's really terrible that players are not willing to contribute their findings to the community.
In all honesty, Sonic shouldn't be giving you trouble at all.
I actually know a bit about the Sonic matchup. If sonic does give you trouble, just remember these tips.
Firstly, DI his Uthrow towards his face and Dair. He can't do ANYTHING if you do this.
Secondly, ALWAYS CP Yoshi's Island. The walls on the sides really screw Sonic up, and he can't gimp you with that platform there.
Thirdly, just pretend his attacks don't exist. Your fair and fsmash will go through everything, so just spam them.
Fourthly, Dtilt shuts Sonic down hard. Just using it rapidly will completely shut down his spindash approaches.
Fifthly, spam Fsmash. He can't do **** about it.
Sixthly, just spam shield. His grab range and overall grabbing ability is so bad he shouldn't even grab you once in the set, but if he does, remember to DI towards Sonic's front.
Seventhly, spam dair if you're in the air. He can't hit you between them, he can't outrange it, and he doesn't even do any damage/positional gain even if he connects. Spring Uair just doesn't work on Lucario.
Eightly, Sonic's Fsmash has HORRIBLE range and priority. If you see him charging it, stand about 1.2 Sonics away from his foot and charge Fsmash. You should be safe and then just release your fsmash after he releases his.
65:35 Lucario, maybe 6:4 Luc. Sonic's in for an uphill fight, but if he tries hard enough he can win.
I actually know a bit about the Sonic matchup. If sonic does give you trouble, just remember these tips.
Firstly, DI his Uthrow towards his face and Dair. He can't do ANYTHING if you do this.
Secondly, ALWAYS CP Yoshi's Island. The walls on the sides really screw Sonic up, and he can't gimp you with that platform there.
Thirdly, just pretend his attacks don't exist. Your fair and fsmash will go through everything, so just spam them.
Fourthly, Dtilt shuts Sonic down hard. Just using it rapidly will completely shut down his spindash approaches.
Fifthly, spam Fsmash. He can't do **** about it.
Sixthly, just spam shield. His grab range and overall grabbing ability is so bad he shouldn't even grab you once in the set, but if he does, remember to DI towards Sonic's front.
Seventhly, spam dair if you're in the air. He can't hit you between them, he can't outrange it, and he doesn't even do any damage/positional gain even if he connects. Spring Uair just doesn't work on Lucario.
Eightly, Sonic's Fsmash has HORRIBLE range and priority. If you see him charging it, stand about 1.2 Sonics away from his foot and charge Fsmash. You should be safe and then just release your fsmash after he releases his.
65:35 Lucario, maybe 6:4 Luc. Sonic's in for an uphill fight, but if he tries hard enough he can win.
Fizzle_Boy
Smash Ace
What I got out of ^that^: Spam everything and you will beat Sonic because he can't do anything about anything. Somehow I'm convinced I won't be taking any games off Shugo playing by this simplified logic. I do agree that it's 60:40 though.
Good Sonics are extremely tricky and very resourceful. A good Sonic player can use Sonic's speed and 50 spindash cancels to mindgame his way past Luc's disjointed hitboxes. I don't think I have enough experience in this matchup to contribute any counter-strats to the blue blur, sorry. Oh yeah I'm not 100% convinced that Lucario completely shuts down Sonic's u-throw to spring game, but that being said, maybe I'm completely wrong.
Good Sonics are extremely tricky and very resourceful. A good Sonic player can use Sonic's speed and 50 spindash cancels to mindgame his way past Luc's disjointed hitboxes. I don't think I have enough experience in this matchup to contribute any counter-strats to the blue blur, sorry. Oh yeah I'm not 100% convinced that Lucario completely shuts down Sonic's u-throw to spring game, but that being said, maybe I'm completely wrong.
Aurasmash14
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 1,540
Why wouldnt you know? you main him lol.
I thought Spam dtilt is what Overswarm said? and he lost to one.
You forgot spam AS. :D
as a side note can you also put in ways to counter Sonic's usual list of mindgamez?
G-Beast
Smash Ace
ive fought sonic quite a few times, and i always found him to be very easy, often living to 170%.. that alone is a problem for him, his lack of KO power
AS charge is hilarious because his dash attack and spin dashes dont go through it LOL.
speaking of AS, it only beats all of his attacks...
our air game and ftilt/smash make sonic cry, outranging and out prioritizing anything he can throw at us.
utilt beats his aerial attacks as well
a funny thing to do is use Double team on his dair if he is dumb enough to use it from far up in the air, or if he gets predictable and watch it hit him,
i also dont mind using it on his spindashes once or twice.
i find sonic easy to fight on yoshi's island or Smashville(OMG I SUGGESTED STAGES!!!!)
just play calm and cool, watch his movements closely and react accordingly, and this matchup will become 65:35 in our favor(if you ask me)
however, do be careful dealing with his F and Bair's, his fair is really quick and his Bair can hurt(although i often dont see it fresh since it seems to be a not-too-bad damage builder)
lastly, Usmash>his dair, im pretty sure it cant even go through the residual hotboxes
AS charge is hilarious because his dash attack and spin dashes dont go through it LOL.
speaking of AS, it only beats all of his attacks...
our air game and ftilt/smash make sonic cry, outranging and out prioritizing anything he can throw at us.
utilt beats his aerial attacks as well
a funny thing to do is use Double team on his dair if he is dumb enough to use it from far up in the air, or if he gets predictable and watch it hit him,
i also dont mind using it on his spindashes once or twice.
i find sonic easy to fight on yoshi's island or Smashville(OMG I SUGGESTED STAGES!!!!)
just play calm and cool, watch his movements closely and react accordingly, and this matchup will become 65:35 in our favor(if you ask me)
however, do be careful dealing with his F and Bair's, his fair is really quick and his Bair can hurt(although i often dont see it fresh since it seems to be a not-too-bad damage builder)
lastly, Usmash>his dair, im pretty sure it cant even go through the residual hotboxes