Should TOs ban splitting the pot?

[Teh Future]

With recent... issues that have surfaced I think this should take a closer inspection . I do not think it would be hard AT ALL to implement this. Simply add a rule onto the list that says:


Opponents will play out all of their sets or they can receive no payment unless specified by the tournament organizer. Furthermore, Each placement will receive the money specified by 60/30/10 split in both doubles and singles.


Or something to that effect. I think an important thing to note is that this does not actually stop people from splitting. If people really want to then they can split after they receive the money anyways because at that point they can do whatever they want with it :/ All this does is discourage formal splitting which kills hype at tournaments and encourage competitive playing until the end of bracket play.

TL;DR "banning" splitting will not actually ban it at all, but strongly discourage something that apparently other gaming communities frown upon (can anyone actually confirm this?) and result in every set being played out to its fullest unless the TO says otherwise.

I'm honestly not sure if this would make a good rule and should be enforced or not. But I definitely think there needs to be some discussion on the subject.

 

[Strong Badam]

you can't enforce it.
bad rule idea.

 

[metalreflectslime]

How would you enforce this?

 

[Teh Future]

you guys didnt read the post : /

or lack reading comprehension

 

[Strong Badam]

they can just as easily **** around in grand finals and you can't prove that they split, even with such a rule.

 

[omgwtfToph]

I think he is aware of that, yes. Read the 3rd paragraph in his post... TC is saying that despite the fact that you could "**** around in grand finals" and split under the table, by establishing the rule of "no splitting," you're doing 2 things:

1. By formally saying "Don't split," you shed a negative light upon people who split the pot. Currently there isn't even a negative point of view on splitting the pot, so in a sense, "it's a start." The people who respect the TO's decisions will not split. The people who don't...

2. ...will at least have to play it out. So at least there's some form of a set going on, instead of no finals happening, etc. So it's pretty much the TO saying, "Hey, if you're going to split, at least play a friendly set for everybody so we can call it finals."

I think it's a good idea at larger tournaments where people are coming in from out of the region. When I visit another region, I want to see finals happen LOL. It's a let-down traveling to a tournament that ends without any hype.

In smaller tournaments/locals, I don't think it's a big deal haha.

 

[Brookman]

tl;dr.

even the tl;dr was too long.

 

[LLDL]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=285041

 

[Danny_Lyons]

Yes, because it doesnt make either player play at their best.Because they already have the state of mind that their going to get some money even if they lost so there's no stress.

People need to learn to be competitive again.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Nothing wrong with a split so long as you have a set. I don't care if it isn't their mains, either. Do you know how tired I am of seeing Space animals ALL the time? Some times what the actual GF set would be isn't even entertaining. Also....playing with immense pressure =/= amazing set all the time. It could just be a big camp fest. ESPECIALLY if they are from the same crew/group. I know I wouldn't play a serious set with a friend of mine that I play ALL the time in GF. Secondaries or tertiaries, please. That might make it more fun.

TL;DR As long as you don't know they split...who the heck cares? People don't complain when certain people do it, and it's blatantly obvious. Just make sure you have an entertaining set.

 

[Hax]

even though it can't be enforced, it should still be banned. hopefully the ban will encourage players to stop splitting; splitting goes against hype as well as the improvement of players.

 

[AlphaZealot]

I can easily be enforced. MLG just enforced it.

 

[Hax]

lol to my knowledge of what happened at MLG, jason/adhd outright got caught discussing the pot split. there's a difference between that and assuming people are sandbagging because they aren't playing at their full potential, which is what i'm saying cannot be enforced

 

[etecoon]

I can easily be enforced. MLG just enforced it.

it was enforced because the people involved were stupid about it and don't know how to be discreet -_-

 

[Deleted member]

Removed by Moderator

 

[AlphaZealot]

You don't try your best if you don't have anything to lose.

 

[Deleted member]

Removed by Moderator

 

[TheTantalus]

Pay good attention

Absolutely I can enforce this rule. I could've easily disqualified Mew2king, Ninjalink, Koolaid, Mang0, and Lucky last year at *Pound* for doing this very thing.

I want everyone to know this year at *Pound* that if I catch you purposely forfeiting or throwing pools matches, you and that other person will both be removed. I have no reservations on this matter. If you're gonna throw a match, don't let me know that.

 

[Bizkit047]

It should depend on the scenario really. Obviously time constraints are an issue, where splitting is obviously fine. I think this needs to be more specific, as in splitting for Grand Finals. Splitting in anything but grand finals can definitely be considered manipulating the bracket as it would affect who plays in Grand Finals.

An example of what I allow at my tourneys is a case where Fatal and Koolaid have to play Grand Finals. Often times than not, these two play Winners Finals AND Grand Finals. Koolaid has won probably the last 2-3 Winners Finals sets against Fatal. When Grand Finals comes around with the same players, if they wanna split, I let them. As far as locals goes, no one really watches them play anymore, so the hype is almost not there anyway. They come together, they team, they're "friends", one already won winners finals, so then I just give first place to the winners finals winner and let them split. If, say, Bloodcross came along and beat Fatal in losers finals then tried to split with Koolaid in Grand Finals, that would generally be looked down on.


Throwing matches are a different thing, and very dirty. I have a personal example of this. About a year ago there was a tourney with Koolaid, Fatal, and me. It came down to me in losers finals vs the loser of Fatal and Koolaid. At the time, I had a few random set wins vs Fatal which made him really unsure that he could take me out if he loses to Koolaid. Instead, he makes Koolaid forfeit Winners Finals to him so that Koolaid fights me instead. The plan backfired, since I managed to beat Koolaid and get to Fatal anyway. The point was, throwing matches because you think someone has a better chance against the next opponent than they do is wrong. I didn't make a big deal over this since it didn't work out and since Fatal didn't keep it secret, and hasn't tried anything like that since then to my knowledge.

So yes, forfeiting should definitely be enforced or splitting outside of grand finals.

 

[0Room]

So I'm not really understanding. Are you saying that 2 people get together and say we'll both get 50% of the money, regardless of who wins?

 

[Brookman]

I remember, way back at some jersey tournament m2k threw a match to cort cause chu was facing the winner of cort vs. m2k.


good times.

 

[ADHD]

No, because it will happen in secrecy regardless. It's like trying to stop people from downloading music off the internet. Can you stop it if the offense is repeated too many times? Yes, but in general, it won't be in terms of splitting in smash.

 

[Marc]

Giving your friend some money is only a problem in that it might look bad; you ultimately can't tell people what to do with their money after they receive it. I'd still advise players to be discreet about it because of what it looks like, not because it's bad per se.

Blatant bracket manipulation on the other hand simply doesn't fly. If two players make a deal to let the one advance who has a better shot at the next round of the bracket, a person will be duped by that. This would be outrageous in any kind of competition and as long as there is evidence, it should and can be punished.

 

[metalreflectslime]

Absolutely I can enforce this rule. I could've easily disqualified Mew2king, Ninjalink, Koolaid, Mang0, and Lucky last year at *Pound* for doing this very thing.

I want everyone to know this year at *Pound* that if I catch you purposely forfeiting or throwing pools matches, you and that other person will both be removed. I have no reservations on this matter. If you're gonna throw a match, don't let me know that.

What did Mew2king, Ninjalink, Koolaid, Mang0, and Lucky last year at *Pound*? Was it because Mango and Lucky gave Zoap and Sidefx the win in pools? What did Mew2king, Ninjalink, and Koolaid do?

 

[Omni]

So it's safe to say that splitting and bracket rigging are two different subjects

The problem is that splitting often leads to some sort of bracket rigging. Not all the time and it's not definite but it's a definite danger zone.

Splitting should not be allowed. However, I don't see anything wrong with it after a tournament. That's how those kind of transactions should be handled anyway. If splitting leads to a person forfeiting their match to make sure their split is high (which normally happens) then that's obviously bracket rigging.

It's way too dangerous of a zone for it to be allowed in tournaments.

Hell, people can get away with bracket rigging if they wanted. Doesn't mean it should be allowed, but it happens all the time.

 

[Strong Badam]

I can easily be enforced. MLG just enforced it.

Have you seen the backlash from the community over that ****? Additionally, there was no proof that ADHD wasn't purchasing an invisible pink platypus from M2K with that money, so I am unconvinced that it occurred.
If MLG continues to pull **** like that, you know that numbers will dwindle. This is one of the many reasons why TO's won't really ban splitting, because enforcing it will just piss off top players who make or break tournaments, which in turn pisses off the entire community.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

It should be up to the winner of the set, after winning the set, what to do with his money. If he decides at that point that he wants to give 1/2 of it to the 2nd place player, good for him. Finals should be played out except for circumstances beyond our control (such as a venue kicking us out prematurely), and what to do with the money after the fact should be determined by the winner after he wins. No drama, no bologna, the rest of the world doesn't need to know you decided to split at that point.

 

[Rain(ame)]

If 2 players are going to be in GF....then they should be allowed to split if they choose. *shrugs* I don't see that as "manipulating the brackets" in any way. I could be wrong, but then again, almost anything can be seen as "right" with today's loop holes.

 

[TL?]

Why dont people just split the money AFTER the tourney? If two people want to split, why dont they just play and afterwards first place gives second place enough money to be even?

 

[Teh Future]

I can easily be enforced. MLG just enforced it.

So would you say you think there should be a specific rule for tournaments outside of MLG?

I want everyone to know this year at *Pound* that if I catch you purposely forfeiting or throwing pools matches, you and that other person will both be removed. I have no reservations on this matter. If you're gonna throw a match, don't let me know that.

Interesting... seems some people are ahead of me lol

So yes, forfeiting should definitely be enforced or splitting outside of grand finals.

Do you usually host tournaments in NE? I know you are a great snake but not that you usually TO. If this is the case, are you going to address this in your rules or do you not think thats necessary?

No, because it will happen in secrecy regardless. It's like trying to stop people from downloading music off the internet. Can you stop it if the offense is repeated too many times? Yes, but in general, it won't be in terms of splitting in smash.

If you're going to use this analogy, isn't downloading music off the internet against the law? Wouldn't having a rule against it be the equivalent?

TO's won't really ban splitting, because enforcing it will just piss off top players who make or break tournaments, which in turn pisses off the entire community.

Seems as though some TOs already are banning it :o

I notice a lot of the people advocating this seem to actually be relevant members in the community... I hope the SBR is discussing this issue. If people think there should be a rule for this, the only way i can see it actually becoming a common rule is if SBR endorsed it in their recommended rulelist.

I definitely think IF this rule is used it should also apply to larger scale tournaments... Not necessarily nationals only but I dont think TOs should be really concerned over a tournament w/ 15-20 entries.

 

[Ace55]

As long as it's GF I don't really have a 'moral' problem with it since at that point nobody else is involved anyway. IMO 'they're playing it out but they're gonna split anyway' GF's are way less entertaining but I don't see any way to actually stop people from doing that.

 

[AlphaZealot]

So would you say you think there should be a specific rule for tournaments outside of MLG?

For my underground tournaments I've said numerous times if someones splits/does shady stuff like this they are banned for the next event.