Go pretend like people like you somewhere else.
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Should Metaknight Be Banned? The Poll (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)
- Thread starter GofG
- Start date
- Status
ssbbFICTION
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2008
- Messages
- 2,535
Anther
Smash Champion
ur face is teh freakz0rs ;p!
Nic64
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,725
same, I still do well with him, but I'm markedly better with lucario and possibly a few other characters. likewise, I've seen people pick up MK and play him very ineffectively, he does require experience just like every other character, in fact, if you're a bad player, he's not even close to the best choice for you. the only legitimate argument for banning him is that he stifles character diversity by countering everyone but snake, but he is *not* so broken that a newbie can just pick him and beat you, not even close.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
this is incorrect. if the one side is always 200 higher than the other side, than its consistent in going up but even if it gets to the trillions, the one side will always be 200 higher, thus, getting infinitely closer but not passing, if you were talking about a trend where one number is going up and one is going down, like the percentages in the poll, than you would be correct but since the percentages are only a representation of the actual numbers, it doesnt work that way...
did that make sence?
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
The percentages will get infinitely closer, as the ratio gets smaller and smaller. The number of votes seperating the two groups is constant, but the percentages are not.
And since percentages are not neccesarily integers on the number line, but rather the set of all rational numbers, they will get closer by an exponentially smaller amount, until the amount that they get closer by (percentage-wise), is less than the percent value that we are rounding to, which means that it will technically get to a point where the percentages "stop changing" despite more votes being added. But it will still never be "even" since there will still be more votes for the ban than against it (as noted by the constant 200 more votes), it will just be written down as "even" because we don't feel like writting 50.00000000000000000000001% for pro ban and 49.99999999999999999999999% for anti-ban.
OM NOM NOM NOM NOM!
Anther
Smash Champion
oh snaps ur rite!
I missed the word percentages. =p
I missed the word percentages. =p
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Anther
Smash Champion
oh snaps ur rite I'm rite!!
If I were more argumentative with my argument I would've been righter firster!
If I were more argumentative with my argument I would've been righter firster!
since one side is always 100 votes ahead of 50%, the counter goes to the percent of a percent, we need 100 to equal less than .005%, so we need... 2,000,000 people to vote for the counter to read 50%-50%.
Thats a LOT of people...
The percentages won't get "infinitely closer". There will always be a finite difference between them. No matter how small the difference is, I will be able to find a smaller difference simply by halving the difference, so we know it isn't "infinitely small" no matter how small it gets.
The phrase you are looking for is "arbitrarily close".
The phrase you are looking for is "arbitrarily close".
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
yea, what that guy said^^
Not if we take the limit to infinity!
That means if people keep on voting FOREVER, the in-between percentages will get smaller forever, and surpass every positive number(0 is not positive).
"infintely closer" just means its getting smaller and it isn't stopping, it doesn't mean it reaches zero, or some infinitely small positive number.
I love how MK gets us to talk about limits...
whats the limit of MK's rank as time approaches infinity?
Anther
Smash Champion
I think at best it'll approach 28% from above and then it'll be discovered that Link has an inescapable up-b combo on him and it'll get begin its decent to zero.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
well....
a man can dream i suppose
a man can dream i suppose
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
This is true except for one thing. Infinitely closer does not mean that they will ever touch. It means that the difference between them will approach 0.
Notice I said infinitely smaller. As in, the more people vote, the smaller the difference in percentages gets, so if an infinite amount of people vote, the difference in percentages will get continue to get smaller indefinitely. Thus...infinitely smaller.
edit:****, I got beat to it.
That's not what a limit means. A limit has nothing to do with "infinitely small" quantities; it has a lot to do with arbitrarily small quantities.
Let's suppose there are n votes for Meta Knight being banned and n - 200 votes against him being banned. So the ratio in favour of him being banned would be n/2(n - 100). Let's consider the distance between n/2(n-100) and 1/2.
Given any arbitrarily small positive number (e > 0), we can make
|n/2(n-100) - 1/2| = 50/(n - 100) < e
=> 50 < e(n - 100)
=> 50 < en - 100e
=> 50 + 100e < en
by choosing n > 50/e + 100.
That's what it means for the limit to be 1/2. It has nothing to do with "infinitely small" quantities (there are none of these in the real number system, and we are talking about real numbers).
I said it was for quantities that were BECOMING smallER infinitely(well, if it approaches 0), and I stated that it was NOT about being infinitely small, but the "not" probably got lost in my horrible grammer...
I need to stop spamming commas....
I meant it didn't reach either zero or "infinitely small" numbers.
I need to stop spamming commas....
You said "the in-between percentages will get smaller forever, and surpass every positive number" which is wrong. It can be made to surpass any SPECIFIC arbitrary small e you pick, but it cannot pass EVERY ONE at once.
That's the problem with what you said.
Anyway, Meta Knight shouldn't be banned.
That's the problem with what you said.
Anyway, Meta Knight shouldn't be banned.
On the contrary, Meta Knight should be banned.
cutter
Smash Champion
well, I meant it will EVENTUALLY pass any number you think of.
or basically what you said.
well, either way, I'm sure I know what a limit is.
I just can't explain it well.
Edit:
or basically what you said.
well, either way, I'm sure I know what a limit is.
I just can't explain it well.
Edit:
WTF, HAX! Actually, I don't know if its a infinity DNE or a imaginary DNE. Or how you got an inequality to not exist.
infomon
Smash Scientist
Colin-JF: Hurray for math!! Glad someone corrected the sloppy reasoning about limits and infinity 
Edit: Fair enough, XienZo. But it's important to be very pedantic about math statements to avoid errors.
Edit: Fair enough, XienZo. But it's important to be very pedantic about math statements to avoid errors.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
While I agree with what you've said, I'd like to once again point out that I was never talking about the actual percentages, but rather the difference between said percentages.
The limit of that difference as the number of votes approaches infinity...is zero. The difference will get closer and closer to zero. So when I say "infinitely smaller," I am referring to this, since getting closer to zero is getting smaller.
No, limits themselves don't have anything to do with "infinitely small" numbers in general, in this particular case (limit as n approaches infinity= 0+), "infinitely smaller" is an accurate description.
cutter
Smash Champion
There was a post that was talking about what would happen if Olimar approached a perfect camp, so I fuxxed around with a limit for parody reasons.
pastaboy
Smash Champion
see video games do teach you school related stuff
Ken beat the physics teacher.
No it isn't. And it's the same story as the above if you are interested in the difference... there are still no "infinitely small" numbers involved. Using the definitions from above:
∀e > 0, n > 100(1/e + 1) => |n/2(n-100) - (n - 200)/2(n-100)| < e
Anyway I don't want to side track this thread any more, so watch out for tossing around the phrase "infinitely small"!
Well from the result I worked out above you can calculate how many votes for meta knight being banned there would need to be before the difference in percents is less than any arbitrary amount you choose. Let's say you want the difference in percentages points to be less than 1 (as in, it would be 50.5%-49.5% or closer). Then e = 0.01.Then for any number of votes for meta knight being banned above 100(1/0.01 + 1) = 10100, that will be the case.
The fact that some number of votes exists for any e you choose is what we mean when we say the limit exists.
The fact that some number of votes exists for any e you choose is what we mean when we say the limit exists.
deepseadiva
Bodybuilding Magical Girl
As the pro-ban advantage slowly dwindles down...
payasofobia
Smash Champion
Ike comes and jabs it up.
pastaboy
Smash Champion
it shuld be looked into about people creating possible second acounts to vote and what not, seems the pro ban has been exponentialy(yay more math) going down
I've already looked into this. It doesn't seem to be the case, as of four days ago at least.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5676116&postcount=1475
I can check again later, but I doubt we'll see anything surprising.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5676116&postcount=1475
I can check again later, but I doubt we'll see anything surprising.
Sharky
Smash Master
oh shoot, the lead is under 200! woot! XD
Snare
Smash Lord
by 2 votes...
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
No, just characters, nothing to do with best/most popular.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
its been a 200 vote advantage pretty much since this poll started,
and all this talk of invalid votes and seocnd accounts and such is annoying me, its been proven that any method used to invalidate the vote, like people making accounts only to vote and the amount of colored name people voting is almost exactly the same with the exception of that extra 200 votes on the pro ban side
and all this talk of invalid votes and seocnd accounts and such is annoying me, its been proven that any method used to invalidate the vote, like people making accounts only to vote and the amount of colored name people voting is almost exactly the same with the exception of that extra 200 votes on the pro ban side
Inui
Banned via Warnings
I'm going to win the next NJ tournament with Snake because he's the best.
Gonna turn on the GAY and do 21% every time someone makes a minor error. Grab them, drop them into my nearly guaranteed oki, and **** them.
lol @ thinking MK is somehow a tier higher than such nonsense
Gonna turn on the GAY and do 21% every time someone makes a minor error. Grab them, drop them into my nearly guaranteed oki, and **** them.
lol @ thinking MK is somehow a tier higher than such nonsense
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