Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[Darxmarth23]

Nothing is impossible to stop against MK, as he has near-even matchups.

Oh, and please don't get mad. Just repost that argument if you can find it and let me read it.

I'm not getting mad, bro. Just saying what I think. I am going to re post one final time.

Then the arguments will be stored in Viva la Revolution - The New age and Official Rebellion to Stop Mk. Which I am the leader of.

 

[|RK|]

Trying to prove a point by relating real life to video games is not a feasible arguement.

Why not? It works for sports, and gaming is becoming ever much more like that. Almost had a completely gaming channel, too, but... you know what happened to G4. Also, his point was relating two completely different communities. Our decision should not be based on, or related to any other community. Also, I find that our attitudes are more released in video games. For example, if you kill someone in a video game, that doesn't make you any less of a pacifist, but you can do whatever. So maybe I should have posed "If we could, WOULD we remove a non-diverse race or thing?"

 

[DerpDaBerp]

I know this was posted a long time ago but reading it, I felt like responding

You don't understand what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that people have to prove that with everythat that he has, Meta Knight is "too good" to such an extent he has to be banned.

Not simply name all of the things that he has going for him and hoping to blind people with all the rhetoric. Show us how he's too good, don't just imply it.

"Hey, Billy!"
"Yeah, Jim?"
"I finally proved that MK breaks the game enough to be banned!"
"Really? How'd you do that?"
"Well, I stopped just explaining my points, got up, and showed the world why I'm right!"
"Wait, didn't you start trying to do that a really, really long time ago?"
"...Well, sure. Especially after it was made clear that our debating on the forums wasn't enough."
"Jim, there's something I need to tell you."
"Ok."
"People stopped playing Brawl competitively a couple years ago."
"Wait, what?"
"Yeah, it turns out that MK was really the only viable option for winning tourneys after all. No one ever developed their meta games or anything enough to stop him. Eventually people just got tired of always losing to MK or having to learn to play him to win. The community dwindled and everyone plays melee now."
"Gee, Billy. Well, if people did still play Brawl, they could ban him now. I got proof!"
"Uh, well, they don't. Sorry Jim. It's too late now."
"Aww. Oh well. Say, I'll challenge you to a money match! C'mon, you know you wanna!"
"Sure, why not."

Game Announcer: Meta Knight! Meta Knight!

"*sigh* You know what Jim, I'm not in the mood"
"Oh......alright"


WHOOOO! SUBJECTIVITY! I hoped you enjoyed

 

[Darxmarth23]

Guys, just ignore him. Whether he's a troll or just immature, he's obviously not going to listen to reason.




I did respond to that. I said that whether or not you were right and he was broken, it's not reflecting in the tourney results. If he was so broken that he needed to be banned, he would be dominating way more than he is now. You never responded, so I had assumed you had missed it. Your argument was what launched my whole tangent on whether or not we can ban a character just because the majority feels like it, rather than it being actually necessary.

Yeah bro, I just meant that the debate is moving forward so fast, no one can really debate. And there are too many people who are trolls here.

I couldn't respond because I wasn't here.
I believe that tourney statistics should be ignored in this case. Just a bit. If the majority thinks he needs a ban, then put him on it. That's how we learn from mistakes. And that isn't happening right now.


Some of my old posts. Copied and pasted.

Mk should be eliminated. And I believe that Apex and Genisis should rack in Mks all over.
There are ways to beat MK. But in the end, its way too difficult, and you lose 4 out of 5 times.
The fact that many characters metagames consist of play styles to beat Mk only, and they still lose to him shows something.
This causes a bend in the metagame focus line, and timeline.
It also eliminates the "6 characteristics of a good move" theory. (founded by me)
These are two crucial needs for true metagame development and a competitive MK is getting in the way of that.

Mk Should Be Banned.

The thing is, he is the top characterS. He has his own tier, and the gap between Mk and Snake(and all of the others) is huge. He hogs all of the glory and TOP TIER DOMINANCE for himself.
MK has:

1) 0 bad match ups
2) 0 bad stages
3) A growing spam wave
4) Too much tier dominance
5) Covers all 6 characteristics by using bypasses.
6) A LOT of tourney scene dominance.
7) Easy learning curve
8) Landslide victories
9) Sensible movestrings off stage, on stage
A temp ban will change things. A lot. We will have straight matagames, and brawl will be at a point of maximum develpoment.
But when Mk comes back, he will change everything again.
I answered all of these questions numerous times in this thread. When a broken character comes into play, most characters metagame are "bent" to make that character win against the broken character instead of the rest of the cast as a whole.

 

[|RK|]

Do you even Know what your saying some time? 45:55 is close but not even and that is what we are trying to say ban him because no one is even to him and dont tell us the CP system isn't broken. if no one can counter pick a charecter than it is broken!

Eh, I consider near even matchups (which for all we know could be like 51:49) to allow it only to be bent. On top of that, multiple good players consider some people, like Snake and Wario, to be better than even. Oh, and I defined a counter pick already. Pick Wario, or Snake. The reason that many people can't agree with things like this is because the community is split. Some believe that Snake goes better than even, some think he's only near even... I would be able to back this up more, but it's the rift in the community that causes me to be unable to produce agreed on results. Sorry

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Guys, just ignore him. Whether he's a troll or just immature, he's obviously not going to listen to reason.




I did respond to that. I said that whether or not you were right and he was broken, it's not reflecting in the tourney results. If he was so broken that he needed to be banned, he would be dominating way more than he is now. You never responded, so I had assumed you had missed it. Your argument was what launched my whole tangent on whether or not we can ban a character just because the majority feels like it, rather than it being actually necessary.

if you dont call SS Tier Meta Knight 15.00 total dominance than what do you call it? he has his own tier above the guy who has his own tier. he has no CP's or even's. ya he has close 45:55 and 40:60 but thats about it.

 

[pure_awesome]

if you dont call SS Tier Meta Knight 15.00 total dominance than what do you call it? he has his own tier above the guy who has his own tier. he has no CP's or even's. ya he has close 45:55 and 40:60 but thats about it.

I like that.


But anyway, it's pretty obvious that MK is the best character in the game, which explains the 15.00.

I'm saying that when we get right down to it, tourney results are all that matter. He could be the most broken character in the history of fighting games on paper, but if he wasn't dominating tourneys, it wouldn't matter.

But he's not dominating tourneys to the extent where it's necessary to ban him, like SF2 Akuma was. He's only dominating them to the extent where it's attractive to ban him. The majority of the people on Smashboards are split here: between whether they think banning him because the majority feels like it is justifiable or not.

 

[DrakeRowan]

Why not? It works for sports\, and gaming is becoming ever much more like that. Almost had a completely gaming channel, too, but... you know what happened to G4. Also, his point was relating two completely different communities. Our decision should not be based on, or related to any other community. Also, I find that our attitudes are more released in video games. For example, if you kill someone in a video game, that doesn't make you any less of a pacifist, but you can do whatever. So maybe I should have posed "If we could, WOULD we remove a non-diverse race or thing?"

One word, Morality. Moral aspects comes into question concerning real life issues. In video games and some sports that word flies out the window.

I would type more but Im kinda in a bind atm

 

[Darxmarth23]

Statistics, tourneys, and people are backing us pro bans up.

But the back room isn't

 

[|RK|]

Yeah bro, I just meant that the debate is moving forward so fast, no one can really debate. And there are too many people who are trolls here.

I couldn't respond because I wasn't here.
I believe that tourney statistics should be ignored in this case. Just a bit. If the majority thinks he needs a ban, then put him on it. That's how we learn from mistakes. And that isn't happening right now.


Some of my old posts. Copied and pasted.

Mk should be eliminated. And I believe that Apex and Genisis should rack in Mks all over. Check. It's possible.

There are ways to beat MK. But in the end, its way too difficult, and you lose 4 out of 5 times.
That's actually pretty debatable. I mean, against M2K, possibly, but other MKs? Think of if these people beating MK's with Pikachus and Luigis played characters that go near even with him. They'd probably lose, but that's because of the playstyle shift.

The fact that many characters metagames consist of play styles to beat Mk only, and they still lose to him shows something. Check. However, if they succeed, that makes it another story.

This causes a bend in the metagame focus line, and timeline.
Check. Absolutely right.

It also eliminates the "6 characteristics of a good move" theory. (founded by me)

No offense, but if you founded it, doesn't that introduce bias to the equation?

MK has:

1) 0 bad match ups
2) 0 bad stages

Community rift strikes again. Y'see, some people think that FD is his worst stage. Especially since most MK's will ban FD. On top of that, if you combine characters and stages, many people also believe that say, Diddy on FD beats MK.

3) A growing spam wave Check.
4) Too much tier dominance Check.
5) Covers all 6 characteristics by using bypasses. You made them, so I guess it's a Check.
6) A LOT of tourney scene dominance. Check.
7) Easy learning curve Err.... depends on the person, really.
8) Landslide victories Nope. There are many times that people give MKs good matches
9) Sensible movestrings off stage, on stage Kirby.
A temp ban will change things. A lot. We will have straight matagames, and brawl will be at a point of maximum develpoment.
But when Mk comes back, he will change everything again.
I answered all of these questions numerous times in this thread. When a broken character comes into play, most characters metagame are "bent" to make that character win against the broken character instead of the rest of the cast as a whole. Okay.

Responses in red.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I like that.


But anyway, it's pretty obvious that MK is the best character in the game, which explains the 15.00.

I'm saying that when we get right down to it, tourney results are all that matter. He could be the most broken character in the history of fighting games on paper, but if he wasn't dominating tourneys, it wouldn't matter.

But he's not dominating tourneys to the extent where it's necessary to ban him, like SF2 Akuma was. He's only dominating them to the extent where it's attractive to ban him. The majority of the people on Smashboards are split here: between whether they think banning him because the majority feels like it is justifiable or not.

I see your point and I hate it even when someone who has no idea of whats happening or even what to do just follows the crowd and that is a problem.

but you cant rule out the people who actually know what they are talking about. The guys on the front line who are tired of the MK spam,(they are not as bad but still a big proablem) the unfair advantage of no CP's or bad stages.

this is where we get pissed off if you can just see it

 

[pure_awesome]

All tourneys are backing up is that he's far and away the best character. Which we already knew.

Tourneys have proved that he's not dominating enough that he needs to be banned. We'll be fine if we keep him, fine if we don't.

 

[DrakeRowan]

Statistics, tourneys, and people are backing us pro bans up.

But the back room isn't

Im pretty sure they do. There's a chance you and many others are just not satisfied on the course of action they have taken outside of "wait and see."

 

[|RK|]

Statistics, tourneys, and people are backing us pro bans up.

But the back room isn't

The only thing is that most of the pro-bans don't know what they're talking about. I mean, not you, but you realize there are a lot of random scrubs who want him banned because he's "unbeatable". Otherwise, the poll advantage would be significantly less.

 

[|RK|]

I like that.


But anyway, it's pretty obvious that MK is the best character in the game, which explains the 15.00.

I'm saying that when we get right down to it, tourney results are all that matter. He could be the most broken character in the history of fighting games on paper, but if he wasn't dominating tourneys, it wouldn't matter.

But he's not dominating tourneys to the extent where it's necessary to ban him, like SF2 Akuma was. He's only dominating them to the extent where it's attractive to ban him. The majority of the people on Smashboards are split here: between whether they think banning him because the majority feels like it is justifiable or not.

And this is why I have NO idea which side you're on. Oh, and don't resort to insults. When someone makes a polite contradiction to your arguments, then it is only right to respond in kind. When you ignore their proposition completely, you show yourself as ignorant and you make people believe that you cannot respond to the argument. I don't think you're ignorant now, but please don't change my mind.

"One word, Morality. Moral aspects comes into question concerning real life issues. In video games and some sports that word flies out the window.

I would type more but Im kinda in a bind atm "

Hmmm... well, I did say if we COULD, would we. Like in a video game. Would that work?

 

[Darxmarth23]

No offense, but if you founded it, doesn't that introduce bias to the equation?

No bias. No bull. Its a logical way of evaluation.

Community rift strikes again. Y'see, some people think that FD is his worst stage. Especially since most MK's will ban FD. On top of that, if you combine characters and stages, many people also believe that say, Diddy on FD beats MK.

One almost even match up on his worst stage. And even if mk has close match ups, tourney results show who is victorious most of the time.

Responses in red.

Easy average learning curve.

Kirby's offstage movestrings are much easier to gimp than Mks. They aren't even close to comparable.

The 4 out of 5 times thing? I quoted someone that time and used it as a reference.
Lol. You took my angry/response color.

 

[Overswarm]

I think we should ban him.

>_>

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

And this is why I have NO idea which side you're on. Oh, and don't resort to insults. When someone makes a polite contradiction to your arguments, then it is only right to respond in kind. When you ignore their proposition completely, you show yourself as ignorant and you make people believe that you cannot respond to the argument. I don't think you're ignorant now, but please don't change my mind.

"One word, Morality. Moral aspects comes into question concerning real life issues. In video games and some sports that word flies out the window.

I would type more but Im kinda in a bind atm "

Hmmm... well, I did say if we COULD, would we. Like in a video game. Would that work?

Just a side note: plz don't double post or spam Im no mod so I cant do anything here but dont do it

I know where you come from now and sorry for the flaming earlier but I hate it when someone posts something that to me sounds very stupid and really dosnt support there side.

 

[|RK|]

Easy average learning curve.

Kirby's offstage movestrings are much easier to gimp than Mks. They aren't even close to comparable. True, true.

The 4 out of 5 times thing? I quoted someone that time and used it as a reference.
Lol. You took my angry/response color.

"One almost even match up on his worst stage. And even if mk has close match ups, tourney results show who is victorious most of the time."

The thing is, many people thinks he BEATS them. You see, the community rift is what will cause disagreements here, no matter how good our words are. Fact of the matter is that we can't debate it. On top of that, if no one can be proved right, things stay status quo...

Oh, and I nearly beat a friend's MK with my Lucario, and I'm not that good, lol. Thing is, I crashed Extremespeed, and basically messed up my own recovery. Twice. I ALMOST WON! On top of that, my friend is better than me in general. Too bad it was over Wi-Fi so it doesn't much matter.

Oh, you notice you everyone says wait till Genesis to see? Ironically, Genesis means "Beginning".

 

[Melomaniacal]

I think we should ban him.

>_>

****, I'm convinced.

 

[|RK|]

Just a side note: plz don't double post or spam Im no mod so I cant do anything here but dont do it

I know where you come from now and sorry for the flaming earlier but I hate it when someone posts something that to me sounds very stupid and really dosnt support there side.

I'm sorry. It's just after I finish one post, I see another, and at the rate this topic moves at it's pointless to edit.

Community rift, my friend. That is what makes it seem stupid.

 

[Darxmarth23]

"One almost even match up on his worst stage. And even if mk has close match ups, tourney results show who is victorious most of the time."

The thing is, many people thinks he BEATS them. You see, the community rift is what will cause disagreements here, no matter how good our words are. Fact of the matter is that we can't debate it. On top of that, if no one can be proved right, things stay status quo...

Oh, and I nearly beat a friend's MK with my Lucario, and I'm not that good, lol. Thing is, I crashed Extremespeed, and basically messed up my own recovery. Twice. I ALMOST WON! On top of that, my friend is better than me in general. Too bad it was over Wi-Fi so it doesn't much matter.

Oh, you notice you everyone says wait till Genesis to see? Ironically, Genesis means "Beginning".

But do you really think that Mk will be beat by a diddy on FD? Because that becomes your opinion and a variable as to which side you vote for.

Genesis should be the part where the pro bans start a hostile take over. As a leader of a rebel group, I stand by that.

I think we should ban him.

>_>

I know, and you're a beast.

 

[|RK|]

But do you really think that Mk will be beat by a diddy on FD? Because that becomes your opinion and a variable as to which side you vote for.

I don't know. I mean, NL did take M2K, considered not only the best Brawler, but also the best MK main. You see, player skill is also a factor, yet it isn't considered in matchups. I'm gonna watch the Azen vs M2K match and attempt to see what Azen did about each to incorporate those points into my playstyle. Because the general community plays a similiar playstyle, we don't know whether MKs that good or not. The pros are just the ones who break away from the pack.

Genesis should be the part where the pro bans start a hostile take over. As a leader of a rebel group, I stand by that.

The anti-ban group is larger

I know, and you're a beast.

Didn't he pick up MK just to show that MK needs to go? For all we know, many people could be following this and this just increases the number of MKs. This introduces an unknown variable to the equation. I HATE VARIABLES.

Your notes in pretty magenta

 

[Messiano]

Man, Wouldn't it be nice if we all like i don't know :\

Maybe wrote down what we wanted or perhaps a Yes or No towards this topic

and then make a decision with the results of that?

I mean that just sounds so crazy. Like we can give it a name like Vote or...Dem..Demo...DEMOCRACY!?

Because this is doing nothing but wasting time :\ Same arguments being thrown back and fourth

 

[|RK|]

Nope. Y'know why? Because many pro-bans are idiots. Trust me, many of them just pop in here and vote because MK is "unbeatable". I'm talking to one of the smarter ones.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

RK Joker is a not so well disguised troll.

 

[|RK|]

It's the middle of the afternoon, and I'm off of work tonight, which means I can finally take some time to acknowledge many important points that this dialogue has been turning on.

Before I begin though, I would just like to express that out of all the knowledge I have learned and pieced together over the course of the last year, nothing I know eclipses the understanding that I have developed with all things Meta Knight in relation to the Diddy Kong meta-game. I have a very documented and decorated history involving Meta Knight in and out of tournaments, and my experiences span a wide range of player skill and talent shaped by a host of different regional trends across the country. I have broken the spirits of the most mediocre of players and have been forced to the cusp of retirement by the nation's finest. This neverending tug-o-war with Brawl's most dominant character has – for better or worse – made Meta Knight easily my favorite and most studied match-up.

This is the only time I will ever make as strong of an insistence to the depth of my credentials, and I hope people will acknowledge and take them into serious consideration before launching into counterargument.

I have chosen a series of quotes that I have culled from this thread so far that I would like to directly contend with. For ease of reading and navigation, I have opted to quote everything in one box, as opposed to multiple, screen-stretching columns:

* "The problem with this line of thought is that diddy as a CHARACTER handles the banans better than meta knight as a CHARACTER..even if the mk play is equally as skilled as using nanas as diddy, the diddy still should be in better control." [Count]

* "The opponent should NOT be using your bananas as well as you or equal to you or even close to how you're working with them, THIS is why Diddy is A tier." [Player-1]

* "You can never assume the opponent is equal to the Diddy player with bananas. This is an area where theory will never match reality." [AlphaZealot]

* "First off, the MKs ability to catch will NEVER be on par with a Diddy. A Diddy uses bananas, like AZ said, like 15 hours a week, because he can spawn them in every match. MK can't do that." [AvaricePanda]

* "The real thing is that MK's banana control just won't be as good, simply due to Diddy using bananas in EVERY match, while the MK player only gets to against Diddy." [bludhoundz]

* "So yeah, THERE IS NO WAY, a MK can have the same or even more nana experience then diddy. And even if he had, DIDDY has the best tools to camp and protect those nanas =/!" [tocador]

These are statements which comprise the crux of the groupthink that essentially agrees that "Meta Knight will never have the same banana peel control as Diddy Kong." There are multiple problems with this line of thought and logic:

1. The vast majority of these claims do not take into consideration of the fact that the margin of favor that Meta Knight has over Diddy Kong in this match-up does not always deal with banana peels. In fact, I think many of you are (perhaps unintentionally) ignoring two other and arguably more critical facets of MK's anti-Diddy game: the pressure that he can apply in his grounded rush-down, and his off-stage pressure. Both of these often go hand in hand: a Meta Knight that bulldozes you with a fast, smart and measured offense can at least temporarily neutralize banana peels as a factor long enough to knock you off-stage, where Diddy Kong's overall options are reduced to predictable and linear recovery paths.
   
   
2. No concession is being made with regards to the possible success of Meta Knight's inherent ability to manipulate banana peels because there is an implied assumption that opposing players do not have the capacity to match us, the Diddy Kong mains, as far as item micromanagement is concerned.
   
   However, there is one crucial thing everybody needs to realize about these arguments, and it's that they are essentially theory-crafting value judgments. Many of you at least unwittingly forfeit that your statements are merely opinion with faulty word choices (i.e. "MK should never have better banana control than you"), but then there are those of you who resort to absolutism, implying that there is no possible way for opponents to be on par or exceed our level of item control and awareness.
   
   If you wax poetic about hypothetical situations involving this specific match-up with both characters at the absolute height of their respective meta-game, you have no choice but to assume that the Meta Knight that you face in this scenario has at least precisely the same amount of dexterity that you do with banana peels. To fantasize about these circumstances but then still arbitrarily impose limitations on the Meta Knight player because you feel like it is impossible defies logic of all sorts and brands.
   
   
3. As I previously mentioned, these perilously frail claims revolve around some hidden universal truth that no one can ever be as proficient as Diddy Kong mains in the use of banana peels. The first question I would like to ask is this: how often has it been necessary for your opponent to have equal or better banana peel control than you in order for them to win a match or close a set on us? The fallacy of the groupthink here is that it ignores the simple fact that defeating Diddy Kong does not always depend on who has the best banana control. Sometimes, we just flat out get our *sses whooped, plain and simple, and it very well may have nothing to do with questionable management of your resources.
   
   And no, that's not just a Meta Knight thing; that goes for virtually every other character in Brawl's cast.

I would also like to take this time to revisit another observation: What if a former dedicated Diddy Kong main decided to abandon ship and jump on the Meta Knight bandwagon?

Hmmm.

I seriously picked up Meta Knight for the first time earlier this week, and the results have been staggering. I have played against Meta Knight for over a year to date, and I have seen precisely what the trajectory of his meta-game has yielded. Of course, simple observation other players' styles and techniques in a fighting game of any depth does not necessarily mean that I should be able to emulate it. However, due to Meta Knight's ridiculously small learning curve, I have been able to pretty much clean up my MK over the course of the last 48 hours to become an effective carbon copy of all of the best MK mains I have ever played.

Can you imagine playing against a Meta Knight that not only Z-grabs, but thwarts all your glide-toss attempts, and also avoids ground traps by consistently air-dodge-catching banana peels off the ground? Or one that instant-throws? Or one that sets up his own traps upon gaining control over a banana peel? I don't even think most of you are even aware of all the mix-ups Meta Knight is capable of when he's armed with a banana peel. Glide-tossing is not his only option, and having inherently insane ground and aerial mobility on top of B-special mix-ups is a headache many of you will not ever want to deal with.

Would a Meta Knight main who used to be a dedicated Diddy Kong main not be your worst nightmare?

I'm heavily considering being that guy, and I would guarantee you that I would be hard-pressed to lose to another Diddy Kong player, ever. And unfortunately I would only be the tip of the iceberg.

Think about that.

Diddy Kong vs. Meta Knight is not even.

Okay, now I don't think MK vs Diddy Kong is even. HOWEVER! If there is no previously dedicated DiK, it's POSSIBLE.

@Stabbed: Whatever.

 

[@HomE]

RK joker you are digging a hole...

 

[Dekar173]

Well, Le_THieN is living proof of what I've been saying for a while now, if a previous Diddy player picks up MK in place of Diddy, the match-up is highly skewed in MK's favor. Bravo Le_THieN, you're a scholar, and a gentleman.

 

[Messiano]

Nope. Y'know why? Because many pro-bans are idiots. Trust me, many of them just pop in here and vote because MK is "unbeatable". I'm talking to one of the smarter ones.

Heres the thing though No matter what is decided people will be upset.

So cut to the **** chase and lets move on.

 

[|RK|]

RK joker you are digging a hole...

Don't worry, I'm not talking about people like you. You guys know you have more random scrubs on your side than we do.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Don't worry, I'm not talking about people like you. You guys know you have more random scrubs on your side than we do.

I disrespectfully disagree.


Also:
Le Thien = win

 

[|RK|]

You do, though.

EDIT: Then again, we do have many MK using scrubs...

Also, why are we still debating this? Let's wait till' Genesis.

 

[misterpimp5757]

i voted yes bcuz i voted yes all those other times.....i wouldve voted no cuz like everyone says....people are learning how to beat MK now.

 

[Dantarion]

Game Announcer: Meta Knight! Meta Knight!

"*sigh* You know what Jim, I'm not in the mood"
"Oh......alright"

This. When/If MK becomes a HUGE problem, it will be too late. The people who would have benefited the most from a ban will have QUIT already. For me, the MK ban isn't so much about MK being broken, its about the effect that having the top 16 matches of a tournament slowly become over 50% metaknight dittos will have on a community.

35 something characters in Brawl and the game revolves around 1? Thats not appealing.

True, if Metaknight was gone, it would still revolve around the top 6 or so, but those characters have weaknesses that allows for lower characters to come into play more.

 

[C.box]

You know when people say a 0 bad stages they mean that there is no stage that he does bad on, fd may be his "worst" stage but it isn't a bad stage for him. Every other character has a stage they don't do so hot in, While mk's "worst" stage is still pretty good for him <_<.

Just got tired of seeing fd being referred so much.

 

[Kamikaze*]

Lol, he won't be banned.

2 polls and yes was in the lead twice.

I'm sure the SBR won't be stupid enough to ban a character that isn't even close to akuma's level. Watch him not be banned. I'll be there to laugh

 

[Minwu]

If there was ANYTHING even close to broken about this character worthy of a ban, the community would know about it by now, have exploited it at tournaments, and he would have been banned without even needing a poll like this.

His aerials, tilts, smashes, grab, throws, dash attack, running speed, two glides, rising glide, multiple jump, and specials are always exploited at tournaments. To more extent than any of these things or ATs on any other character. With greater success.

 

[Ax00x0]

*Applauds Le-Thein* Bravo, that was wonderful.

This. When/If MK becomes a HUGE problem, it will be too late. The people who would have benefited the most from a ban will have QUIT already. For me, the MK ban isn't so much about MK being broken, its about the effect that having the top 16 matches of a tournament slowly become over 50% metaknight dittos will have on a community.

35 something characters in Brawl and the game revolves around 1? Thats not appealing.

True, if Metaknight was gone, it would still revolve around the top 6 or so, but those characters have weaknesses that allows for lower characters to come into play more.

This. I'll say it for perhaps the 3rd time:
People are LEAVING the Brawl Community because of MK. The Metagame has and will STAGNATE until he is gone. The Metagame IS or very soon WILL be all about MK.

Not a single thing any of the anti-banners have said counters this, and not because no one has presented a good argument-it's just that those 3 points are FACTS, and destroy any other argument. Even without going into the long explanation of why MK is broken, these simple points make a ban a must.

I'm sure the SBR won't be stupid enough to ban a character that isn't even close to akuma's level. Watch him not be banned. I'll be there to laugh

I literally facepalm when I see stuff like this: STOP comparing Brawl to other games/metagames. It's beyond apples to oranges, there is no way to compare them. The metagame of Video Game X has NO weight on Brawl's metagame. At all.

If there was ANYTHING even close to broken about this character worthy of a ban, the community would know about it by now, have exploited it at tournaments, and he would have been banned without even needing a poll like this.

See, the thing is, I pretty sure most of the anti-banners aren't idiots-****, it doesn't take brainpower to see that he's broken. It's just the amount of mental gymnastics that some of them (and the "pros") have done to convince themselves that Mk is anything but is almost to a laughable extent. I'm pretty sure the real answer is "We don't want to ban him because we like free money and the fame playing this character has brought us." Which would make things a lot easier if they'd just up and admit that.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Most, if not all of the variables that make Mk broken are accumulative.

Alone they do nothing, but as a perfect combination, they are what they are....Mk....Broken.

Genesis is going to be the decider... and if the results lean Pro-ban and Sbr doesn't ban, then there is some issue that we are missing.

Ban.