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Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
- Status
Tarmogoyf
Smash Master
Actually a very good thing to do. it makes the debate more valid if you look (and argue moreso) from both perspectives.
bobson
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 1,674
You should consider moving to Statler.
M@v
Subarashii!
To the pro ban side:
The vote here wont matter much. A good bunch of the SBR mains mk, and that group will prevent any bans.
The vote here wont matter much. A good bunch of the SBR mains mk, and that group will prevent any bans.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
I'm fair sure most of us know that. If the community ever gets to the point where they really feel strong about banning MK however, most of the tournament hosts will ban him anyways even if he's officially not banned. It is possible for the masses to change things, just highly unlikely.
EDIT: Particularly when very well recognized people like Azen start voting yes. I mean, just at a quick glance at those who voted for the ban in this poll:
Azen, Barge, Bowser king, Bwett1, chillin, CO18, Dryn, Edreeses, HugS, JunkintheTrunk, Lee Martin, Mic_128, mikeHAZE, Overswarm, Ozz, PhantomX, Pierce7d, Ran Iji, SkylerOcon, Snakeee, Steel2nd, Xsyven, Xyro
And those are just the colored names I know for sure that are big names. I didn't list people like Espy who aren't colored names. I'd go as far as to say there could be more bigger names for the ban then against it. It's not just pros on one side, noobs on the other side like some people are suggesting.
No they wont <.< Tournament directors WONT ban MK for the fact if majority of the people use MK and go to their tournaments and they make money off it. SBR has to officially say it for it to hold any affect. HOBO is only doing it for fun, but majority wont touch the topic.
Thats like asking Christians to stop buying bibles because its materialistic. But you wont hear them say that because everyone buys it.
Simple Marketing PoV
@ Bobson - Whys that? Im way out in the Springs in no position to go anywhere.
Thats like asking Christians to stop buying bibles because its materialistic. But you wont hear them say that because everyone buys it.
Simple Marketing PoV
@ Bobson - Whys that? Im way out in the Springs in no position to go anywhere.
pure_awesome
Smash Lord
...I'm fairly sure that the only anti-ban people in the SBR that use MK consistently are M2K, Inui, and maybe Kel.
Fiction uses Wario.
Sky uses Peach.
Santi uses Toon Link.
Kyari I think uses Marth.
D1 I think uses Spacies.
I'm not sure about Omni, I think he might use MK.
Even if Omni does, saying that there's this big MK bias in the SBR doesn't make sense. According to this poll, the majority of SBR members are now pro-ban. 11 for yes, 9 for no, and 4 not sure.
Fiction uses Wario.
Sky uses Peach.
Santi uses Toon Link.
Kyari I think uses Marth.
D1 I think uses Spacies.
I'm not sure about Omni, I think he might use MK.
Even if Omni does, saying that there's this big MK bias in the SBR doesn't make sense. According to this poll, the majority of SBR members are now pro-ban. 11 for yes, 9 for no, and 4 not sure.
∫unk
Smash Master
yuna, you already know the flaw in your rebuttal so why'd you post it?
peach using items and metaknight destroying a cp system is apples and oranges
telling me to "deal with it" when i go to tournament every weekend and have never complained about it (i play metaknight in tournament, which has helped me do better) is funny as ****
and no, i didn't read your entire post or all your posts, just what was addressed to me so if you replied to anything else already my bad
honestly i dont think metaknight is good enough to be banned. i think the metagame would be more interesting and more than one character would win the largest tournaments but whether thats enough reason to ban is subjective.
i wish metaknight was way better so he could be banned
peach using items and metaknight destroying a cp system is apples and oranges
telling me to "deal with it" when i go to tournament every weekend and have never complained about it (i play metaknight in tournament, which has helped me do better) is funny as ****
and no, i didn't read your entire post or all your posts, just what was addressed to me so if you replied to anything else already my bad
honestly i dont think metaknight is good enough to be banned. i think the metagame would be more interesting and more than one character would win the largest tournaments but whether thats enough reason to ban is subjective.
i wish metaknight was way better so he could be banned
∫unk
Smash Master
rk joker with a dumb invitation like that why would anyone take you up
i just shot you down
if you respond you lose, if you dont respond you'll be better but you still lose
see the stupid game you just set up for others that i just set up on you
i just shot you down
if you respond you lose, if you dont respond you'll be better but you still lose
see the stupid game you just set up for others that i just set up on you
pure_awesome
Smash Lord
Technically, he is way better. He has IDC.
People just decided to ban that, rather than the package deal.
Fffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-
CR4SH
Smash Lord
and that's ****ed up.
Sometimes, statements like this are almost too true to be real.
You sir, are too good.
Oh, and inb4planking.
pure_awesome
Smash Lord
@RP': I did read the thread, but I don't remember a lot and I don't feel like reading backwards... oh, there's one!
Diversity:
Um, that isn't a reason to ban a character. While everyone gets the urge to see something new every once in a while, you can leave like everyone else and go do something different. Might I suggest Melee, which, despite the prominence of Marths and Foxes, still didn't consider banning the character? At least then you'd get a reality check, when you cry for a character to get banned and people laugh at you. The astounding amount of Meta-Knights is only natural. Even if Meta-Knight had hard counters, he'd still be prominent simply because he is the best in the game.
People Can Instantly Win More When Playing As Him:
This is a generalization. Whilst many people can become better while playing as him, there are still many that suck as him. Besides how does this argument work? If you think about it, it's simply because Meta-Knight is the best there is. It's tier dominance kids. If someone started playing as Lucario from their typical main Captain Falcon, he would be expected to play better. You cannot judge a person's skill from their typical main. There are no perfectly balanced characters. Melee's Mario used to do this for me, but, hey. To judge their skill, you must play dittos. You would see their skill with MK if you play with MK and the same for CF and any other character. You could also do this by playing bad matchups, but MK has no bad matchups, so the only way to judge the skill of an MK is to fight them with MK. Even this, however, could birth unhelpful information. After all, if you just grab MK to fight an MK... well you have to be familiar with the character to play them well in certain cases.
MK Is Broken:
He's beatable, and that's all that actually matters. Think about it. If you could **** an MK with your eyes closed, would his abilities REALLY matter?
Erm, come up with more points plz.
Diversity:
Um, that isn't a reason to ban a character. While everyone gets the urge to see something new every once in a while, you can leave like everyone else and go do something different. Might I suggest Melee, which, despite the prominence of Marths and Foxes, still didn't consider banning the character? At least then you'd get a reality check, when you cry for a character to get banned and people laugh at you. The astounding amount of Meta-Knights is only natural. Even if Meta-Knight had hard counters, he'd still be prominent simply because he is the best in the game.
People Can Instantly Win More When Playing As Him:
This is a generalization. Whilst many people can become better while playing as him, there are still many that suck as him. Besides how does this argument work? If you think about it, it's simply because Meta-Knight is the best there is. It's tier dominance kids. If someone started playing as Lucario from their typical main Captain Falcon, he would be expected to play better. You cannot judge a person's skill from their typical main. There are no perfectly balanced characters. Melee's Mario used to do this for me, but, hey. To judge their skill, you must play dittos. You would see their skill with MK if you play with MK and the same for CF and any other character. You could also do this by playing bad matchups, but MK has no bad matchups, so the only way to judge the skill of an MK is to fight them with MK. Even this, however, could birth unhelpful information. After all, if you just grab MK to fight an MK... well you have to be familiar with the character to play them well in certain cases.
MK Is Broken:
He's beatable, and that's all that actually matters. Think about it. If you could **** an MK with your eyes closed, would his abilities REALLY matter?
Erm, come up with more points plz.
bobson
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 1,674
So you can make obnoxious internet jokes about having lives in Statler and Waldorf, of course.
pure_awesome
Smash Lord
If SF2 hadn't banned Akuma, they wouldn't have ruined their game. They would have just really, really limited the diversity.
That's an exaggerated example, but it proves that diversity is a great reason. After all, diversity is the antithesis of overcentralization.
pure_awesome
Smash Lord
Why? I already proved diversity is a good reason to ban a character. Nothing else in that paragraph is relevant.
-Facepalm-
That was too much win to comprehend.
Also Guide to being MK
1. Pick MK
2. Press B
3 .???????
4. Profit!
And that's all that matters.
Tarmogoyf
Smash Master
Back up to 50%!
pure_awesome
Smash Lord
I see nothing wrong with that sentence. They could have had a perfectly healthy, Akuma vs Akuma community.
The diversity would have sucked, but the community would have been fine.
(Hint: I'm being facetious.)
The diversity would have sucked, but the community would have been fine.
(Hint: I'm being facetious.)
bobson
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 1,674
Brawl wouldn't be ruined if we had items on.
PK-ow!
Smash Lord
Let's suppose, as a thought experiment, that in two months time, MKs found some **** that made it so that their matchups against Wario, Snake, and whoever else anyone wants to put here as being "better than neutral (50-50)" against MK, became.... neutral or worse, in MK's favour.
And, suppose, that in that intervening time, plus an additional period of, say, four months, no other matchups with respect to MK substantially changed, and none of the character boards of the list above found anything to get back past the 50-50 point.
So, here we are in hypothetical town, where everyone really does have no better than 50-50 with MK. And some significant time has passed. Actually, feel free to substitute your own quantity of time in the second part.
Question: Is MK banned then?
This is at least what the "breaks the counterpick system" argument wants to say. Is that argument at least valid, if not, at present, sound?
I decided yesterday that there's too much doubt about if MK has a bad matchup, and so I voted 'no' in the poll. But the preceding question interests me.
And, suppose, that in that intervening time, plus an additional period of, say, four months, no other matchups with respect to MK substantially changed, and none of the character boards of the list above found anything to get back past the 50-50 point.
So, here we are in hypothetical town, where everyone really does have no better than 50-50 with MK. And some significant time has passed. Actually, feel free to substitute your own quantity of time in the second part.
Question: Is MK banned then?
This is at least what the "breaks the counterpick system" argument wants to say. Is that argument at least valid, if not, at present, sound?
I decided yesterday that there's too much doubt about if MK has a bad matchup, and so I voted 'no' in the poll. But the preceding question interests me.
Even though the Tornado isn't a problem for certain characters, like Lucario.
Awesome, by not reading the rest, you easily kill your own argument. I made a statement, then backed up that statement. You CANNOT argue against my statement. For what you posted to be relevant, you must beat the actual evidence in regards to the statement. If you wish to debate, then proceed, professionally.
Meta Knight is a good character and that's about it. He should not be banned. The only thing broken about him is his infinite Dimensional Cape glitch, but that is already taken care of by "No Stalling" rules in tournaments (plus I've never seen anyone pull it off for a scant 30 seconds).
If there was ANYTHING even close to broken about this character worthy of a ban, the community would know about it by now, have exploited it at tournaments, and he would have been banned without even needing a poll like this.
I think the results of this poll would be pretty close to identical to one titled "Am I a Scrub?"
If there was ANYTHING even close to broken about this character worthy of a ban, the community would know about it by now, have exploited it at tournaments, and he would have been banned without even needing a poll like this.
I think the results of this poll would be pretty close to identical to one titled "Am I a Scrub?"
Tarmogoyf
Smash Master
By the argument that it wouldn't have killed the health of the game to allow Akuma, you can't ban anything, because there is no criterion. Everyone can counter a given tactic with the same tactic.
That is really ban argument for anti ban.
UNBAN IDC NOW!!!!
That is really ban argument for anti ban.
UNBAN IDC NOW!!!!
No, of course not. All we'd have is randomness NOT GIVEN TO A SPECIFIC CHARACTER. While items are fun once in a while, it'd suck to suddenly lose because of a random bob-omb spawn. While the same could be said of tripping, items have a greater competitive downturn simply because falling and be able to attack out of it is not like accidentally hitting an explosive projectile that causes the obvious better player to lose.
Oh, and Snake with a Smoke Ball stuck to him would be broken.
pure_awesome
Smash Lord
I responded to your main point. I don't have to debate every little thing you say.
You said diversity isn't a good reason. I proved that it is. The health of the community matters. Competitive SF2 would have been stupid and died if they hadn't banned Akuma. But all he really did was limit diversity down to himself.
You made a point. I refuted it. Now you're telling me I didn't refute it properly? I'm not going to try to refute that MK limits diversity because he's popular as a direct result of being the best because that's common sense.
@PK-Ow:
I really think that's the big debate here. If that hypothetical were true (many people think it already is), then it really comes down to whether or not we should ban MK just because we want to. The game seems like it would be much more interesting with our CP system working at 100%, but having one character who operates outside of those boundaries, provided he doesn't destroy the majority with 7:3s, wouldn't ruin our community. So we arrive at a point where the majority wants to, but it's not necessary. Do we ban?
You said diversity isn't a good reason. I proved that it is. The health of the community matters. Competitive SF2 would have been stupid and died if they hadn't banned Akuma. But all he really did was limit diversity down to himself.
You made a point. I refuted it. Now you're telling me I didn't refute it properly? I'm not going to try to refute that MK limits diversity because he's popular as a direct result of being the best because that's common sense.
@PK-Ow:
I really think that's the big debate here. If that hypothetical were true (many people think it already is), then it really comes down to whether or not we should ban MK just because we want to. The game seems like it would be much more interesting with our CP system working at 100%, but having one character who operates outside of those boundaries, provided he doesn't destroy the majority with 7:3s, wouldn't ruin our community. So we arrive at a point where the majority wants to, but it's not necessary. Do we ban?
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