The point you're missing is the number of MKs. He's clearly the best character in the game so there are more people playing him then any other character. So having a weakness against MK is much worse than a weakness against any other character.
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Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***
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Eternal Yoshi
I've covered ban wars, you know
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I guess I shall forever remain neutral about this. You guys should stop focusing on this debate on MK's banishment and should focus on making Brawl a better game for competition. For example, I have irrefutable proof the Brawl was supposed to have more hitstun.
Maybe then more characters will have more options against everyone(Including MK).
I don't want the Tactical Discussion Board to be "Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 4***" after genesis.
Maybe then more characters will have more options against everyone(Including MK).
I don't want the Tactical Discussion Board to be "Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 4***" after genesis.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Oh, should've said this earlier...
Sample size one does not make an argument.
If Ally IS better, he'll beat MK quite a few more times, if they go back and forth, they're about even. One match does not say who's better or worse. I take single matches from a friend of mine all the time, but we all know he's a ton better then me cause for every one I win, he beats me at least twice.
noradseven
Smash Lord
Haha true that, its been beaten to death too much, focusing making more variants of brawl sounds more interesting.
We can have melee 2.0 as one of them
brawl+ (which would just be balance tweaks not changing game mechanics to the way they were "supposed to be")
And if we can somehow really get the mod train going and getting more than 5 characters in preload spot, I would like BvB(brawl vs brawl), which would be 2 player 3v3 tag team match like MvC2, or CvS2, if thats not possible even a 2v2 system would be nice, you just for added hilarity, plus super meters hahahaha.
Woah woopys don't want to derail here, but still guys 400 some pages of people just barking back and forth the same old arguments I really don't think anyones opinion is going to change at this point.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Don't bring up brawl+.
Its off-topic, its unnecessary, and its stupid.
Its off-topic, its unnecessary, and its stupid.
It doesn't really matter what was and what wasn't supposed to be in the game. We have the game with all of its flaws. We have to live with it.
Brawl was supposed to have Toon Sheik and Toon Zelda in it as well. Should we hack those in?
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
LOLICON! Soz
I love it how this thread is finally dying. Also, the "No" side keeps on gaining on the "Yes" side. Finally people see the light.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Except Metaknight is ban worthy.
Look at him.
he can fly, jump repeatedly,. has a sword, wears a mask, has a tragic past.
he is a complete mary sue. Ban him
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
No, it's dying because this:
Is a heck of a lot more interesting then MK banning.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
I also want hot loli action in Brawl. I like shotas more, and Brawl has those, but...we need lolis too. 
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
I want more Zelda. : (
Mooooooooore Zelda!!!
Mooooooooore Zelda!!!
Eternal Yoshi
I've covered ban wars, you know
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I thought this 1 year from now, and guess what? No we don't. As you can see, doing that is only going to lead to "Should MetaKnight be Banned Take 4,5,6, and 7 until we as a community wise up and make this a better game. The planking is only getting worse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbmu8fGcWaw
We have the tools to make this game surpass the other 2 smash games. We as a community, must man up and utilize those.
Brawl+ isn't perfect, but it's a step up from Chocolate Brawl.
Off-Topic, a code that can preload characters to make matches a 3v3 with a diiferent character per stock sounds amazing.
I can't even begin to follow your logic.
Yes, Falcon and Ganondorf have no good way to approach. That is exactly their problem.
...so.... they struggle agaisnt defensive characters that shut them down completely, since they can't approach at all...
...and Marth is a much better defensive character...
...so MK is better against him?
Huh?
Listen, I play a really, really good Falcon. I'm allowed to brag about it because it makes me ******** for putting so much effort into such a bad character. And honestly, if a Marth or G&W is just doing aerials, I can't do ANYTHING to them as Falcon. Nothing. MK I can deal with to some extent, because he doesn't have the aerial mobility and range to shut down everything.
I would MM many people's MK with my Falcon. I would not MM many Marths or G&Ws.
...huh?
I think you have no idea what you are talking about. A good Ness is surprisingly decent at recovery... fair basically threatens to shut down any direct interception and he can PKT2 from high angles to the edge if he wants. Ness is like ZSS: significantly more safe recovery when done properly.
Lucas, meanwhile, is slow and awkward in the air, and is going to get gimped if he isn't reall careful.
...........what?
I'm not even going to try to unravel this, and instead just say that banning MK and making those players instead switch to Snake, DDD, Falco, Marth, and G&W is BAD for all the low tiers. I'm not sure what you were imagining... maybe all the MK players would just quit the game or play Sonic? (Is there a differen--wait, I shouldn't say that...)
En.Ee.Oh
Smash Champion
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Yes they do, you don't play Marth Yuna stfu.
Sorry, but this isn't the topic for that. And as of now, we ARE living with it. So, yeah.
I wasn't linking the two phenomena to each other. I was merely stating that the thread is finally dying, and, as an inside, the "No"-side is gaining ground.
Yes, but then what's stopping us from hacking Melee as well? Why don't we hack everything 'til all match-ups are 50-50?
This is the first time I've ever seen so many people apologizing for and defending Marth as a bad character...
Remember when people wanted to ban Marth?
Remember when people wanted to ban Marth?
En.Ee.Oh
Smash Champion
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Marth has the best OOS game in the GAME? Lol? Are you completely ignorant of his "oh no you're behind me" problem or.. what?
Metatitan
Smash Master
the term is vanilla brawl, not chocolate brawl xD
Eternal Yoshi
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There's a REASON I'm calling it Chocolate Brawl.
1. Melee =/= Brawl
2.Melee has more offensive and defensive options as a whole. Even low tiers has crazy combos here and there. Yoshi DJC combo on spacies, anyone?
3.Melee has been around for too long for it to hacked to be playable at a tourney enviornment, not that it needs to be. Things such as Hitstun and float cancel weren't removed from Melee at the last minute.
3. Even though Marth and Fox dominated most of Melee, there were several close matchups. Many people argue that Falco counter Fox and Marth counters Sheik. The top characters of Melee neutralized each other and as thus had more tournament variety.
4. Melee had it's share of absurd stuff, but nothing to this extreme.
But enough of this. Good Night.
1. Melee =/= Brawl
2.Melee has more offensive and defensive options as a whole. Even low tiers has crazy combos here and there. Yoshi DJC combo on spacies, anyone?
3.Melee has been around for too long for it to hacked to be playable at a tourney enviornment, not that it needs to be. Things such as Hitstun and float cancel weren't removed from Melee at the last minute.
3. Even though Marth and Fox dominated most of Melee, there were several close matchups. Many people argue that Falco counter Fox and Marth counters Sheik. The top characters of Melee neutralized each other and as thus had more tournament variety.
4. Melee had it's share of absurd stuff, but nothing to this extreme.
But enough of this. Good Night.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Don't assume your the only person who plays bad characters, I play Ganondorf as well as Marth and MK.
MK has the range, and with proper spacing (and there's nothing Ganondorf or Falcon can hope to do to prevent this spacing) MK will be able to safely poke all he wants. I've run the scenarios, and in every situation that Marths shuts down Ganondorf, so does MK. Except OOS. He's certainly a little behind Marth in that regard, but not too much.
The thing is, his offensive game is more then enough to make up for it. After a little shield pressure, MK doesn't need to wait for you to approach unlike Marth. And that's where his amazing offensive game comes into play, he may not have the defensive game of Marth, but he's got enough to shut down, and then he can move in and attack using his own safe approaches and cross-up, and you're in pretty much the same position as if you hit Marth's shield.
And then he gimps you off-stage, yes he's a great deal better at that then Marth.
Thing is, MK DOES have a great defensive game too, and he can force approaches only slightly less efficently then Marth in general. His OOS game is also admirable, but not quite as good as Marth's.
See? He's got a slight deficency in one area, so he more then makes it up in other areas, that's why he's better at this match-up.
*Reverse dolphin slash*
You were saying?
If you're behind me, I have the same answers when you attack, Marth really doesn't have problems with cross-ups unless they're safe on block.
Because, while Marth's defensive game is better overall, when played properly, MK's defensive game is more then sufficent to pull the complete shutdown that Marth does. Move by move, MK does the exact same thing.
MK has the range, and with proper spacing (and there's nothing Ganondorf or Falcon can hope to do to prevent this spacing) MK will be able to safely poke all he wants. I've run the scenarios, and in every situation that Marths shuts down Ganondorf, so does MK. Except OOS. He's certainly a little behind Marth in that regard, but not too much.
The thing is, his offensive game is more then enough to make up for it. After a little shield pressure, MK doesn't need to wait for you to approach unlike Marth. And that's where his amazing offensive game comes into play, he may not have the defensive game of Marth, but he's got enough to shut down, and then he can move in and attack using his own safe approaches and cross-up, and you're in pretty much the same position as if you hit Marth's shield.
And then he gimps you off-stage, yes he's a great deal better at that then Marth.
Thing is, MK DOES have a great defensive game too, and he can force approaches only slightly less efficently then Marth in general. His OOS game is also admirable, but not quite as good as Marth's.
See? He's got a slight deficency in one area, so he more then makes it up in other areas, that's why he's better at this match-up.
The reason is since MK has more aerial mobility, once you've lost your second jump if he stays close enough to ness, he can absorb the PKT with his hurtbox, a trick that Marth doesn't exactly have.
*Dancing blade*
*Reverse dolphin slash*
You were saying?
If you're behind me, I have the same answers when you attack, Marth really doesn't have problems with cross-ups unless they're safe on block.
The Sauce Boss
Smash Ace
This could apply to about 50% of threads on swf lol.
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
edit:^ now i feel like i spammed...
But w/e if your "8 people have switched from the pro ban to anti ban side and none vice versa" comments make you happy then keep telling your self that.
Why wouldn't they hack everything till all match ups are 50-50? People enjoy programing brawl plus its up to them if they want to continue until every match up is 50-50. Nothing is stopping them from balancing the game further and further either.
It was like this the first 2 times too. Infact the 2nd time i remember the gap being something ridiculous at first like 70% for the ban.
But w/e if your "8 people have switched from the pro ban to anti ban side and none vice versa" comments make you happy then keep telling your self that.
Nothing is stopping you from hacking melee go right ahead. The others just chose to hack brawl for one reason or another.
Why wouldn't they hack everything till all match ups are 50-50?
People enjoy programing brawl plus its up to them if they want to continue until every match up is 50-50. Nothing is stopping them from balancing the game further and further either.I find it interesting that the poll's results are currently between Poll 1 and Poll 2, both in total voters and percentage saying yes and no. Look at this:
I've discarded the unsure results from poll 3, since the first two polls didn't have it.
Reordering the poll results in the order of voters, you see this:
This poll is currently following a trend set by the past two polls, that as the number of voters goes up, the yes/no votes approach 50:50.
Link to Poll 1.
Link to Poll 2.
Code:
Poll 1
Yes 1271 53.99%
No 1083 46.01%
Total 2354 100%
Poll 2
Yes 918 55.43%
No 738 44.57%
Total 1656 100%
Poll 3 (Not yet closed)
Yes 1053 54.22%
No 889 45.78%
Total 1942 100%
Unsure 246Reordering the poll results in the order of voters, you see this:
Code:
2354: 53.99% - 46.01%
1942: 54.22% - 45.78%
1656: 55.43% - 44.57%Link to Poll 1.
Link to Poll 2.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Exactly.
10char
Masmasher@
Smash Lord
Sigh..... Hacking melee sounds like one of the stupidest things ever.
Why waste your time with brawl +
nether brawl or brawl + could be better than their predessors.
just play melee or brawl instead of a degenerate copy of a casual game.
The real SSBs
Why waste your time with brawl +
nether brawl or brawl + could be better than their predessors.
just play melee or brawl instead of a degenerate copy of a casual game.
The real SSBs
P. O. F.
Smash Ace
Try like top three or four
DDD is the most overrated character in Brawl. LOL just pick Falco, Kirby, Meta Knight, Toon Link or any character he cant chain grab and you win. He has bad matchups with a good 1/4 of the cast. I have never lost to a good DDD in my entire life in tournament.
GAW is good but he has his own horrible or bad matchups too. Snake, MK, Toon Link, Marth, maybe DDD, and a few others. Hes amazing but i dont think hes as good as we was originally.
I think top 8 are
MK
Snake
Marth
Diddy Kong
ROB
Olimar
GAW
Ice Climbers
(not sure about the order from ROB onward)
I feel Falco and DDD are completely overhyped and used. I also think that Fox, Wolf, and Pit have an enormous amount of potential but are not used enough.
I agree with this. Why try to make a game that is NOT MELEE like Melee? If I wanted to play a game that's like Melee....i'll just go play Melee. Melee > Smash 64 > Brawl > Brawl +. The concept is interesting and pretty cool, but I really dont have time to start playing a fourth ****ing Smash game at this point in time.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
OBJECTION!
I was hoping to come up with a better game while I was objecting, Your Honor... I didn't.
But seriously, Phoenix Wright>>>>>>>the universe>melee>>>>Brawl
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Phoenix Wright is only a tad little bit, like, a half ">" symbol better than Castlevania, so these two are very close.
But yes.
Phoenix Wright and Castlevania >>>>>>>>> the universe
But yes.
Phoenix Wright and Castlevania >>>>>>>>> the universe
.AC.
Smash Lord
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pokemon stadium 3>>>>>pokemon stadium>>>>pokemon stadium 2
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