Sheik Video & Video Critique Thread

[Juushichi]

clowsui should have gotten DQ'd.

 

[Judo777]

It's called the 2 or 3 f-tilt rule. You don't do anymore than 2 or 3 f-tilts in a row.


lol, BF was fun to, it was pretty close in the end. When I had the opportunity to CP you banned Norfair and I went Brinstar just to f*ck with your Falco. To bad you went Marth. Good DI is the only thing that kept that match good for as long as it did. It kinda reminded me of racket ball... except I was the ball.

I should have taken AZ's Diddy to Norfair. I could have probably beat him there since nanners would be practically useless. lol
I need to work on those item combos that Sheik has.


Can't wait to see ya at another tourney dude. I enjoyed our friendlies. We should have recorded more... I had some good footage on a few... same with you.
I have a match of you vs a Peach main. After I finish uploading the finals I'll put those up.

Diddy is surprisingly good on norfair so just be careful. It's not near as bad as people make it sound.

 

[Eddie G]

Diddy is surprisingly good on norfair so just be careful. It's not near as bad as people make it sound.

Agreed, especially against the rare Diddies like AZ who really know how to work their field control on unconventional stage layouts like Norfair.

 

[saviorslegacy]

what settings do you use? Your videos are so much better than mine

Good quality with a dazzle.

Diddy is surprisingly good on norfair so just be careful. It's not near as bad as people make it sound.

I can adapt. AZ was the first Diddy I ever fought that could naner slide properly and I still took him down to one stock. If I didn't slip on his naner peel I would have infinited him with jab and might have won the match.

Agreed, especially against the rare Diddies like AZ who really know how to work their field control on unconventional stage layouts like Norfair.

I would believe this. I took him to Lylat figuring that the stage tilting would mess him up some. Yeah, I was wrong. I should have taken him back to PS1. lol

 

[Judo777]

Good quality with a dazzle.

I can adapt. AZ was the first Diddy I ever fought that could naner slide properly and I still took him down to one stock. If I didn't slip on his naner peel I would have infinited him with jab and might have won the match.


I would believe this. I took him to Lylat figuring that the stage tilting would mess him up some. Yeah, I was wrong. I should have taken him back to PS1. lol

how do you infinite with jab????

 

[saviorslegacy]

how do you infinite with jab????

You jab them against the wall.
It works at PS1 in the fire, earth and somewhat in the water stage (the windmill).
A lot of counter picks have walls for it. The best is PS1 though IMO. The earth stage has one that is completely legit and I almost took a MK to 300% at the tourney with it.
Everyone else can SDI into Sheik and eventually get out behind her. They're at kill percents then though.

When I get the video up you can see for yourself. Both matches that I mentioned were recorded.

 

[-Cross-]

I'm pretty sure everybody can SDI up and away to get out. Jab doesn't have enough hitstun to prevent their second jump.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I'm pretty sure everybody can SDI up and away to get out. Jab doesn't have enough hitstun to prevent their second jump.

The spot he was at in PS1 removes that option.
If they lose their second can they SDI down to the ground, get their jump back and then SDI up?
AZ done it to me yesterday but I didn't pin him against the wall. It was at the ledge and he SDId into Sheik and then jumped.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lwm5rbrcY4 the video finally finished

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LytR9UBrgBA
(notice the ledge cancel at 3:28) Very useful if people are pressuring you and putting you on platforms. I do that except hit the guy with the Fair. I performed Fair against Snake incase of a DACUS. Just be careful on the timing. If you could eat landing lag and be above someone.... not good for you.

ps Izaw in muy creative: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY-R_UkCKvg&feature=sub

 

[-Cross-]

Saviors, there is no Melee ledge canceling aerials in Brawl. What happened was that the knockback of the opponent's move propelled you off the edge and thus canceled the uair. Even if you didn't do anything and hit the ground without teching, you would "ledge cancel" as in you would bounce off the platform and be in the normal state in mid air free to do anything. This type of ledge canceling also existed in melee, but in brawl there is no ledge canceling that can be down without the help of an opponent.

Alright so I'm going to assume the SDI your talking about is 3:34 of that match. AZ was doing lol SDI and going right into you, he did not even try to SDI up and in so he could trade an aerial. Trust me, even if you've never heard of it, the easiest and safest (as in least damage taken) way of SDI for almost every rapid jab is to SDI away, and if you are trapped against a wall, you SDI away and up. If you do it properly, you will literally pop up out of the jab hitboxes and have time to jump away. Rapid jabs can net good%, but to call it an infinite is a bit naive, as it really depends on the level of your opponent. Unless you read their initial DI or get them in a wall trap, you're really not going to get that much %. I'm also going to say that the MK that went to 300% from that is kind of bad, because by then there's enough much hitstun that you could DI away.

Also that tree spot is indeed the best location for rapid jabbing; however, you were still a bit too far away so only every couple of jabs would land from your rapid jab. It's also the reason AZ had enough time to upB. Now with good spacing, you're opponent can SDI up and in that will land you I'm guessing, around 20-30% because that's how much % I would take in that situation. Good damage, but watch out for the potential aerial that the opponent may do out of it.

And eh about Izaw. The only creative part was that he added a needle in after that fair even though the Marth was already dead/no chance of recovery. Looked cool, but even then, I would say Izaw's approach to the MU would get him ***** against a better Marth. Most of the approaches, he just charged right into Marth's zone attempting to compete in head to head spacing which is not the greatest idea. Also the Marth players lack of knowledge about Marth in general, cost him a good amount of damage/situational advantages. Ex) follow ups after f-throw, DS OoS against bad approaches. Well it is just a friendly and I don't mean to insult Izaw's skill.

Edit: Was pools only best of 1's? And how many more matches do you have up Saviors?

 

[saviorslegacy]

Saviors, there is no Melee ledge canceling aerials in Brawl. What happened was that the knockback of the opponent's move propelled you off the edge and thus canceled the uair. Even if you didn't do anything and hit the ground without teching, you would "ledge cancel" as in you would bounce off the platform and be in the normal state in mid air free to do anything. This type of ledge canceling also existed in melee, but in brawl there is no ledge canceling that can be down without the help of an opponent.
It might be my imagination but I thought you could cancel out of hit stun earlier by using an attack. I haven't checked up on it recently. I just came up with that idea on the fly while playing Clowsui and applied it twice while out the tourney.
BTW, I landed on the platform during Uair's auto cancel frames. If you land before or after those frames there is lag.
I done some testing a minute ago and found we can do full hop Uairs onto BF's platforms. I guess you might be able to DI left or right nicking them with a weak attack and then f-tilting them. It would be useful for at least all of my juggling. We might even be able to get away with f-tilt lock> Uair> cancel it and begin a knew f-tilt long every once and a while.

Alright so I'm going to assume the SDI your talking about is 3:34 of that match. AZ was doing lol SDI and going right into you, he did not even try to SDI up and in so he could trade an aerial. Trust me, even if you've never heard of it, the easiest and safest (as in least damage taken) way of SDI for almost every rapid jab is to SDI away, and if you are trapped against a wall, you SDI away and up. If you do it properly, you will literally pop up out of the jab hitboxes and have time to jump away. Rapid jabs can net good%, but to call it an infinite is a bit naive, as it really depends on the level of your opponent. Unless you read their initial DI or get them in a wall trap, you're really not going to get that much %. I'm also going to say that the MK that went to 300% from that is kind of bad, because by then there's enough much hitstun that you could DI away.
No that's not it. I can't remember where it was. lol It might not even be in that video.
I actually never really cared about the rapid jabs. Thanks for the info.
You see... I figured I would never have the opportunity to rapid jab someone against the wall so I never bothered looking into it. I've just heard it called an infinite in the past. Guess it is not. Still freakin sweet though.

Also that tree spot is indeed the best location for rapid jabbing; however, you were still a bit too far away so only every couple of jabs would land from your rapid jab. It's also the reason AZ had enough time to upB. Now with good spacing, you're opponent can SDI up and in that will land you I'm guessing, around 20-30% because that's how much % I would take in that situation. Good damage, but watch out for the potential aerial that the opponent may do out of it.
20-30% isn't bad... I'll take that. If they jump then it gives Sheik the option of a juggle.
If they attack....

And eh about Izaw. The only creative part was that he added a needle in after that fair even though the Marth was already dead/no chance of recovery. Looked cool, but even then, I would say Izaw's approach to the MU would get him ***** against a better Marth. Most of the approaches, he just charged right into Marth's zone attempting to compete in head to head spacing which is not the greatest idea. Also the Marth players lack of knowledge about Marth in general, cost him a good amount of damage/situational advantages. Ex) follow ups after f-throw, DS OoS against bad approaches. Well it is just a friendly and I don't mean to insult Izaw's skill.
I said he was creative... not good.
I played with Suyon for about 20 minutes to half an hour yesterday. I asked him to teach me some proper baiting and how not to let him get in and **** me. It went from me getting two stocked to one stocked by his Marth. Granted he was just d*cking around (and if he really tried I probably would have been destroyed), but he said there was some improvement.
Were am I going with this? I need to stop full out rushing in as well. I got punished by it way to much... as well as ****ing up with grabs. jabx2> grab would have saved me some head ache.
At a higher level of play Sheik needs to become the punishment goddess. Or at least that is the way my thoughts are drifting at the moment. opinion?

Edit: Was pools only best of 1's? And how many more matches do you have up Saviors?

*red
They were best 2 out of 3.
I have a few. I had to get losers finals, grand finals and clowsui's matches up first. It takes around 15-8 minutes to publish in movie maker and about half an hour to upload onto youtube. I've been uploading all day long (or at least when I am close to my CPU).

BTW, I heard you found that Sheik could GR> Bair on MK. Good **** man! I'll have to learn that!


Sorry if I sound confusing sometimes or contradictory. I'm trying to weigh everything I know about Sheik, throw it into a pot and pull out the good stuff or edit a few things and toss it back in. I feel like we aren't using Sheik to her full potential... so I'm trying to figure out who she potentially can be.
Right now I am greatly interested in CP stages.

 

[-Cross-]

It might be my imagination but I thought you could cancel out of hit stun earlier by using an attack. I haven't checked up on it recently. I just came up with that idea on the fly while playing Clowsui and applied it twice while out the tourney.
BTW, I landed on the platform during Uair's auto cancel frames. If you land before or after those frames there is lag.

I'm actually very confused as to how the first statement relates to the platform cancel we were talking about before. You can cancel out of hitstun the earliest with air dodging, then aerial only IF you were sent into tumble. What you should understand is that in brawl, skimming the ledge while in hitstun, will cancel all hitstun. Which is the thing you were pointing out in your match with Snake.

Also weak uair doesn't have enough hitstun to link reliably against people with fast fall speeds or quick dairs. And out of ftilt lock, in order to even connect with the weak uair hitbox they have to be at a certain height, and that height is too high to link into ftilt.

I was asking about the pool matches because there was only one match against different people for you at least, and ty for the congrats. Although I think Judo is right when he says, "Why did nobody else discover this earlier?"

 

[saviorslegacy]

I'm actually very confused as to how the first statement relates to the platform cancel we were talking about before. You can cancel out of hitstun the earliest with air dodging, then aerial only IF you were sent into tumble. What you should understand is that in brawl, skimming the ledge while in hitstun, will cancel all hitstun. Which is the thing you were pointing out in your match with Snake.
Only if you are sent into a tumble? drats...
I knew the rest of that though. owell lol... looks cool and surprised Suyon at least.

Also weak uair doesn't have enough hitstun to link reliably against people with fast fall speeds or quick dairs. And out of ftilt lock, in order to even connect with the weak uair hitbox they have to be at a certain height, and that height is too high to link into ftilt.
Yeah I tested more and it's gonna be pretty impossible to hit with weak Uair. Use it and you'll see what I mean. The hit box goes to high.

I was asking about the pool matches because there was only one match against different people for you at least, and ty for the congrats. Although I think Judo is right when he says, "Why did nobody else discover this earlier?"

*red
I just uploaded the first matches of two different sets.
I still have the second match of each, the matches vs that freaking ball called Kirby and a MM to upload.

No one found it before because no one cared enough to look into something that was already looked into (GR on MK). We have more than what IR showed. Man if only she could force air releases..... that would be nice.

Tourney match vs Pulse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB2oVgonnfA

 

[riocosta123]

I'm almost positive that aerials are quicker than airdodges except for people like Snake.

 

[Judo777]

I'm almost positive that aerials are quicker than airdodges except for people like Snake.

I don't feel like looking into it right now but its possible that airdodge is a little faster. However airdodge cannot be fastfalled like aerials can so its not as good for DI for that reason. COuld be wrong but i think airdodges are like frame 3 and few ppl have frame 3 aerials.

 

[riocosta123]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour..._-yBDg&usg=AFQjCNE4NarViZAKAg3Q_KiSCX80UD7jNg

Air dodges are really god **** slow, and almost everyone has a faster move than them. That's why you see MK's spam upair because it's really quick and allows them to jump ASAP.

 

[Judo777]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour..._-yBDg&usg=AFQjCNE4NarViZAKAg3Q_KiSCX80UD7jNg

Air dodges are really god **** slow, and almost everyone has a faster move than them. That's why you see MK's spam upair because it's really quick and allows them to jump ASAP.

Haha alright fair enough i said i might be wrong. Also holy crap sheik is light off the side she is only heavier than squirtle jiggs and kirby. Thats insane.

 

[riocosta123]

Yeah, it's not when it starts but when it ends and most AD end on frame 40ish.

 

[-Cross-]

No I only mean you can air dodge before you can perform an aerial, not that air dodge is quicker than aerial. Also the point of doing an aerial is to do the one with the shortest amount of total frames not which one comes out the fastest. Just want to clarify that if there was any potential confusion.

 

[Judo777]

Yeah, it's not when it starts but when it ends and most AD end on frame 40ish.

Actually thats what i meant also. I just meant AD come out faster i know they are slower ending.

 

[saviorslegacy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0wsklaW9OQ
I made a few stupid mistakes that got punished to my eyes watered.
Apparently he does not honor getting the balloon. lol I'm just so used to it I auto do it.

Also, a lot of times were I perform a USmash I am actually jump canceling. You see, they're supposed to by auto cancelled Uairs.

 

[Zankoku]

I'm going to be honest with you - execution and "a few stupid mistakes" are not what you should be focusing on fixing.

Your style and decision-making are really uninteractive, and I'd be surprised if you get anywhere against the upper level of players playing like that. Given that adaptation and reaction are important, I strongly advise paying attention to your opponent and actually figuring out what they're doing rather than focusing on your silly full hop/short hop bair shenanigans and hoping they step into your faux wall of pain.

 

[saviorslegacy]

That is something I am working on. Tech skill, spacing and all of that are easy to practice alone. Prediction is a bit harder to practice and if you play the same people it gets way to easy to guess *them*. Suyon was telling me a few things about this.
Gimme some time to develop it out.

 

[-Mars-]

Saviors, your inexperience really showed in this set. You've got to learn matchups. You can't throw out aerials against Kirby, powershield his bair and learn what you can and can't punish. Crouching helps a lot against bair camping as well.

You've got a ways to go, the random vanishing has got to go. Good players such as that Kirby you played are not going to be hit by things like that.

Good job for your first tourny. Your spacing is actually not bad at all you just need to continue playing and learning what specifics you need to employ for each MU.

Also, Ankoku is right, while it comes off as extremely critical....it's accurate so listen to him.

 

[saviorslegacy]

That Kirby lives near me and is like a Ninjalink in that he uses almost everyone.
So by playing him often I can take out two birds with one stone.
#1 match up knowledge
#2 predicting and punishing

 

[Juushichi]

The 2nd isn't really as good playing against one person. That's something I've seen from personal opinion as I've grown as a player. Of the active tournament players of my area (sans T-800 and POPS) I would consider myself worse only than SiL and Sole(calibur), but playing them all the time has only wisened me up to their habits rather than usable character traits themselves.

Playing a jack-of-all-trades guy is good, but using it as empirical evidence to learn a MU is going to be shaky. An example by itself: I've never played a Kirby (and I play one alot down here) that seems to play like Y.b.M.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I take what I can get.

 

[Juushichi]

That's where more tournament experience / playing against multiple people come into play. The human element of MU's is usually the most important.

 

[riocosta123]

Yeah, to echo what Ankoku said, I would really advise against going into the air other than for a nair OOS. Our aerials don't have enough range to go against the powa bair. If he wants to wall with bair, just let him do it and charge needles/crouch or running power shield. You have to be extremely patient in this MU, although I don't think it's too bad.

I'm pretty you can smash di those uptilts. I would work more on your DI than anything else. That's putting your reaction time to good use!

Don't worry, almost every Sheik I've seen has the problem of hopping around a lot, but it really doesn't work against people with superior air control.

Also, don't break out Zelda if you're just going to fish for the kill. Practice her until she's one of your real characters (her jab spam is tooooo good).

 

[riocosta123]

Oh hey, I found one of my matches actually got recorded from a year ago!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2BUoGAjvtI

(there's another match but I was playing so slow it'll just depress you. not playing in 3 months johns)

That was back when I was super bad (I didn't know how to jab cancel, I rolled too much, terrible DI, etc...). Now I'm just bad.

Even though it's Brawl+, the Sheik/ROB matchup is largely the same as it is in Brawl (although I was constantly surprised by his side B) and Chibo is one of the best ROBs.

I do like to incorporate more empty hops into my game and SHAD than most.

I know most of what I did wrong in that MU but any critiques would be good.

 

[CT Chia]

It's a looooot different than vBrawl lol
I'm hosting a tourney though in a week and a half if you wanna come and also get a new recorded match in

 

[<π]

um.....

vids are up.
http://www.youtube.com/user/LessThanPi
I though I saved the changeds but I didn't I have I think 5 more I need to up load of renki vs GDX. I'll start recording WAY more frequently... but I don't know how often I'll play though.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Waaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't get recorded!!!!!!!!!

LOL!

 

[<π]

ED... move up here now!

 

[#HBC | Scary]

But........

I kinda like it here....

 

[<π]

I'd record you~

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I'll be at the Gallaxfest.......you?

 

[Renki]

I'll be at the Gallaxfest.......you?

He'll be there...I'll force him to be there. =)

 

[#HBC | Scary]

"Puts hands together"

Good.....good.....good......

 

[<π]

prob not... work 6.30 to 3.30am

:/

Lol, gallax you stalker

 

[Renki]

I hate lylat cruise so much, lol. I always strike it as well and banning Brinstar.

At least my DI isn't awful. xD I missed a lot of tippered U-smash opportunities, but oh well. ^-^