Sheik Video & Video Critique Thread

[GreyFox86]

@Greyfox, nice use of the ftilt combos
4 things I would like to point out
1. use more n-air, it is a great aerial and makes a great oos option, especially since our "normal" grab range is quite small
2. use less f-smash, it can be very tempting to use but will rarely work and can be severly punished, it range might seem attractive but there is always a better option than f-smash
3. u might already know this but judging from the vid, just to let u know that sheik has more than 4 directions she can vanish, even more than 8, so if your opponent is edge guarding you , aim to vanish in an upwards diagonal.
4.u almost took advantage of this, at 1:11, instead of going for the flurry you could have changed your direction of the f-tilt and still got it to combo, useful tool for characters that find it hard to escape or opponents who are being lazy with their SDI

but all in all, a good performance

Time for a colorful response.

Red: Gotcha, I'm still getting used to using Nair'in out of things. Being a Zelda main, Nair is good and bad so we have to use cautiously.

Blue: Ok, not so much Fsmash. I'm guess I should load up on needles.

Yellow: Yeah I do. IIRC the direction should be more than 16. I know cause I'm a Zelda main.

Green: I know, I hesitated on the Ftilts and went into a A combo attack.

In that vid I could've 3 stocked the DK easy. I have another one uploading now, and in better quality. I'll post it up once it's done tomorrow.

Thanks for the advise. O=(^_^Q)

 

[-dMT-]

lol Very interesting method of response. Color coded xD

 

[-Mars-]

hey GreyFox don't use single needles......too risky padna.

 

[-dMT-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mPBsPR9i_o

Emphasis on what comes after about 2 and a half minutes in or so. I just find it very entertaining to watch.

 

[GreyFox86]

lol Very interesting method of response. Color coded xD

Lol, thank you. Figured since I'm too lazy to individually quote them all, why not just color them and respond to the color. You should try it. Much easier.

hey GreyFox don't use single needles......too risky padna.

So work for 2 needles or more?

 

[-dMT-]

Single needles have their use, but from much greater distances are they really safe. I mainly only ever really use a single needle throw after a full needle throw or against Snake when he's pulling nades out so as to blow them up in his hands.

Mainly go for a full pack of 5.

 

[-Mars-]

Yea a full charge is the least punishable......if you're absolutely sure there is no chance of you being punished then go ahead but make sure your distance is pretty far no matter how many needles you have. Needles are really overrated on this forum. (lol <3).

Their **** but make sure you have a full charge which takes time obviously lol.

 

[<π]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mPBsPR9i_o

Emphasis on what comes after about 2 and a half minutes in or so. I just find it very entertaining to watch.

DMT is a beast. That is all.

 

[GreyFox86]

Can't I charge cancel the needles on the first needles stock sound?

To me, it seems like it doesn't stock but just making the sound just to be. =/

 

[-dMT-]

Can't I charge cancel the needles on the first needles stock sound?

To me, it seems like it doesn't stock but just making the sound just to be. =/

That's exactly what happens. Mainly happens if you try to stock right after the first sound. That why Sheik's who jump around trying to randomly stock 1 needle at a time end up doing it endlessly w.o any charge lol.

 

[<π]

Needles are really overrated on this forum. (lol <3).

I think you spelled underrated wrong there Mars.

needles are amazing use them a lot the more you use them the more you start to understand when it safe versus when it isn't. it s great punisher and a great pressure tool abuse those facts. just don't be dumb with them.

Nair, DON'T get nair happy PLEASE. nair is a good defensive tool OOS occationally being a better choice than grab, jab, or just resetting the situation. nair is not a strong approach tool IMO (too easy to react to and punish) and you have better combo finishers in utilt and fair (as the set up for better follow up situations). Use nair when you need to, but you have better aerial options a lot of the time.

 

[Zankoku]

Blah. I cannot agree with the matchup against Ice Climbers being anything better than 30-70 against Sheik.

vs NoJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ3VscfBq6A

I didn't do so well in this one. First game of the night, I hate Frigate, and I played the matchup completely wrong. Just adding this for completeness' sake.

vs lain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9LeRx8cz0g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFHAnIsxOsg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w85Vk-jtYB0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hB526AtnK4

Besides getting incredibly lucky game 1 thanks to like one and a half SDs, I lose pretty hard every time. I'm done playing this matchup unless something revolutionary is discovered about it.

vs Iris
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je7HX_2zPAA

I still hate this stage. Wario's pushback on shield was a little annoying but not difficult to adjust for.

vs MC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZkOaNuxm7U

Why do people still fall for that?

 

[-dMT-]

One thing I noticed is you use the jab flurry too much. Sometimes in the right situation but very often in the wrong. Most of the time it would be better to just do jabx2 > grab or another jabx2/ftilt... something lol

Good use of retreating fair though, especially vs Wario. Also liked your spacing vs GW.

 

[<π]

Sounds like my IC main (now well recived after place well in NE) is coming back to FL... I'll have matches up.

 

[Judo777]

Single needles have their use, but from much greater distances are they really safe. I mainly only ever really use a single needle throw after a full needle throw or against Snake when he's pulling nades out so as to blow them up in his hands.

Mainly go for a full pack of 5.

Isn't a full charge 6 needles? each does about 3 damage?

 

[stealth3654]

vs lain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9LeRx8cz0g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFHAnIsxOsg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w85Vk-jtYB0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hB526AtnK4

I really like the tech from the spike Lain tried on you at 1:12 in the first match. How did you do it? Whenever I try, I don't get close enough to the stage to tech.

 

[-dMT-]

Isn't a full charge 6 needles? each does about 3 damage?

I'm pretty sure its 5, and the damage isn't equally distributed among the needles.

 

[DanGR]

I really like the tech from the spike Lain tried on you at 1:12 in the first match. How did you do it? Whenever I try, I don't get close enough to the stage to tech.

Gotta rub that stick towards the stage really quickly.

 

[GreyFox86]

Ok here is the other vid I was talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1SYrOnjBts

vs :shiek:

Comment on what I'm doing wrong cause I messed up alot in this match O=(>_<Q)

 

[DanGR]

Ankoku.

GnW- If you're going to jump up from below to hit him make sure he's in some sort of lag or vulnerable position first... He d-aired you several times on your way up. If you want, you could occasionally punish this with an upb. Maybe short hop towards him, land, then upb. I dunno. Play around with it.

That and getting knocked upwards from below with n-airs and upb were your main problems. As soon as you land on a platform above an opponent, I'd recommend either quickly dropping through with an air dodge or short/full hop airdodging- whichever you think will net you the least amount of damage.

Wario-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je7HX_2zPAA#t=3m25s
Try more safe, retreating aerials^, but with b-air more-so, I think.

GreyFox.

I say camp more but maybe that's just how I like to play that matchup. You ran into a lot of grounded attacks you wouldn't have had you thrown more needles and probably just camped in general more. Don't go on the offensive just because you have a big lead.

And don't forget to DI out of the turtle. Try focusing on that specifically for a couple matches.

 

[Jski]

I was waching some of these games and i saw that ppl where using F smash on sheik that seems odd i though you where not to do that move at all cost. Is F smash not as bad as most ppl are saying?

 

[Zankoku]

Why would I favor retreating bair over fair? The fair lets me perform it later, keeping my fall better covered so I can seamlessly follow into a tilt in case he was trying to weave past my aerial.

 

[-dMT-]

I was waching some of these games and i saw that ppl where using F smash on sheik that seems odd i though you where not to do that move at all cost. Is F smash not as bad as most ppl are saying?

It has it's place. That place isn't on the list of moves to be done frequently, but certainly also not a move to avoid at all costs.

 

[GreyFox86]

I was waching some of these games and i saw that ppl where using F smash on sheik that seems odd i though you where not to do that move at all cost. Is F smash not as bad as most ppl are saying?

Sorry its a Zelda habit of mine. I use Zelda's Fsmash to space and free up some other moves to kill with.

 

[DanGR]

Why would I favor retreating bair over fair? The fair lets me perform it later, keeping my fall better covered so I can seamlessly follow into a tilt in case he was trying to weave past my aerial.

I'm not too confident about that statement, actually, but here's my argument for it anyways:

B-air seems to have a "better" angle for hitting Wario when he falls in with an aerial (usually d-air) from above and retreats away, which is what Iris did fairly often. I try to place the end of her foot just a little bit below where I predict the d-air will begin, just along the diagonal retreating path.

And unless you're absolutely sure you'll hit with a tilt after your aerial (At least for me, it can be difficult to time and get the spacing for it upon Wario's landing) simply rolling away or jabbing after the aerial would be a safer option. Higher risk gets you a higher reward, obviously- choose what you like.

But you do have a good point there.

Eh, What do I know.

 

[Judo777]

I'm pretty sure its 5, and the damage isn't equally distributed among the needles.

Nah it is 6 needles. She just only has five needles in her hand while charging i guess you could say those are the extra needles in her hand. And i knew they didn't have the damage equal i was just saying each one is around 3

 

[-dMT-]

Well I only ever hear her store 5 needles. I suppose frame data is required. I just recall someone having said 5 needles before, and out of curiosity I counted the needle storage sound and indeed heard it 5 times right before she was fully charged.

 

[Zankoku]

She stores five needles but throws six at full charge.

 

[Tristan_win]

She stores five needles but throws six at full charge.

Sheik too broken.

 

[<π]

She doesn't throw them she shoots them out of her face.

it is six, the damage is evenly distributed but each needle's damage depends on the range and that can change during the duration of the "toss".

fair generally rewards better on hit than fair's strong hits but is just as safe as retreating bair in most cases. you can use bair often times to shield stab/poke people who are trying to stay on the defensive.
Honestly I use them interchangeably since for the most part as a poke they operate so similarly.

 

[-dMT-]

She stores five needles but throws six at full charge.

Yea I figured that was a possibility.Well it certainly makes things easier that way.

 

[<π]

she shoots them out of her face. LIke a true ninja she is using the needles in her hand to distract you from the real threat.

 

[stealth3654]

Gotta rub that stick towards the stage really quickly.

I tried it again today, but it didn't work. This time, it was with Falco's CG > spike, but I don't think it makes too much of a difference.

 

[Zankoku]

Falco's CG > Spike doesn't hit at a late enough percent that it would need to be used, anyway. I'm not sure how difficult it is to tech the spike against a wall (the matter of timing seemed simple enough to me), but I have no idea how I managed to DI at enough of an angle to reach the slanted wall of Battlefield.

 

[-dMT-]

Falco's CG > Spike doesn't hit at a late enough percent that it would need to be used, anyway. I'm not sure how difficult it is to tech the spike against a wall (the matter of timing seemed simple enough to me), but I have no idea how I managed to DI at enough of an angle to reach the slanted wall of Battlefield.

Would you mind sharing what you know when it comes to the edge teching mechanics in brawl, and namely the differences between Brawl and Melee in this subject. I haven't looked much into it and I'm particularly interested in the tech's use vs that ICs spike.

 

[stealth3654]

Do you know if you used quarter circle DI, smash DI, or both?

 

[Zankoku]

As long as the ICs player doesn't use the crazy fthrow fair that spikes you a fair distance away from the stage, it's not that difficult. DI toward a wall and press R after you get hit but before you bounce off of the wall. It's especially easy on Yoshi's Island, where simply holding toward the stage will aim you in the correct direction. In the case of slanted walls like Smashville and Battlefield, either the fair is extremely DI-able and I got a good enough angle, or you have to SDI the hit toward the stage a bit to get close enough.

The basic mechanic of teching in Brawl is that you can't bounce off, and thus can't tech, anything that you are sent flying away from (can't groundtech something that sends up, can't ceilingtech a spike, and so on). Another rule is that you can't hit the R trigger before actually getting hit by an attack to tech, like you could in Melee (which made wallteching Peach's dsmash really easy, since all you had to do was hit R right before you'd reach the ledge and you'd practically autotech). An old rule is that you can't hit R during hitlag for a tech. Also, you can interrupt hitlag by SDIing yourself into something that you could bounce off of, but because of the rule of not being able to tech during hitlag, doing this will probably screw you over unless it's like, SDIing an off-stage spike into the ground of the stage.

The one time lain did that fair spike to me, I teched it, and he completely avoided ever going for it again, though. I mean, it's not like he can't just chaingrab into usmash like usual. So it's really not that useful against Ice Climbers.

EDIT

Do you know if you used quarter circle DI, smash DI, or both?

Quarter circle DI is functionally identical to smash DI. In fact, it's just a way for imperfect humans to get more successful SDI's. The way SDI works is that you can "push" yourself in one of eight directions during each frame of hitlag. Because of this, dragging your control stick along three of the directions gives you three SDI's faster than you probably could just SDIing by tapping the control stick.

 

[rathy Aro]

me vs Will (DK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMQXBhyvmWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFJ7t7cqEbg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBBRNTGNQgg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZsavoSN-jc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctiCbwZg6ko

These vids are from a while back and I play a lot differently now, but I figured a critique wouldn't hurt. Plus I gotta put up vids for the rathy fans. =D

 

[-Mars-]

Rathy i'm gonna watch these right now and then rip u apart bwahahahahahahahahaha

Edit:

um well....

Some things I noticed:

you never fastfall your aerials

you don't use utilt..utilt would have helped a lot against Will's SH aerial approaches and the occassional SH airdodges he was doing.

You need to use a lot more needles and pretty much not approach.

You airdodge into the ground and get regrabbed a lot. if he keeps waiting for you to land so he can grab you, drop down with a nair or something.

Oh yea you could also benefit from more jabs.

Edit 2: Some good things I saw:

Knowing you couldn't lock at low percentages and doing one ftilt into a grab.

You had decent spacing....could be better but it looks as if Will is just a much better player than you at this point.

 

[rathy Aro]

XD
<3 Mars

edit: Thanks for the critique. =)
I apply a lot of that stuff now, but I still find myself not using needles enough/correctly. I guess that's what i'll be focusing on next when i practice more.