Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Teczer0]

Timing things that are 1-4 frames long is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HARD.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

wtf that sounsd fairly broken.


it's hard if you're a scrub like teczero.

 

[soap]

no joke i have watched drephens drunk luigi repeatedly wavedash usmash through marth fairs and falcon stomps in money matches

i doubt he even knows about the invincibility frames, he prolly just noticed it always wins

 

[DtJ Jungle]

broken technique is broken.

 

[Teczer0]

Only soap could do something like that ROFL too good.

I guess its nice to know though. If I have no other option I guess I can just try it out for ****s and giggles.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I like to try to aim D-smash through stuff.

Sometimes I U-smash through moves.

soap is our most valuable resource.

I think soap should be the currency of the Sheik board.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

wahts the exchange rate to the dollar?

 

[soap]

i didnt say i could do it.

i just downloaded SDM's spreadsheets and was just curious who had the fastest of any particular move and i noticed there are tons of invincibility frames sprinkled around into peoples moves like easter treats, and i thought it was pretty silly

 

[soap]

lil ness has fastest dtilt at 3 frames hehe.

zelda with fastest upsmash at 5 frames, aaand fastest dsmash at 4

the stupidest looking invincibility is peachs legs at 3-24. what bull****

 

[soap]

broken technique is broken.

i am quoting you to take up space so that my sig will show.

alright....................

one more line for good measure

wtf......

 

[Razor]

does anyone know how to jab cancel? i never do it with sheik or peach. sheiks jab is good so i figure it might be worth doing. the only ppl i see doing it are like samus players

 

[NES n00b]

Press down after you jab. Literally.

 

[SPAWN]

Is jab cancelling useful? I never do it.

How much lag does it take away?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Many moons ago it was useful.

Now people d-smash.

soap bar to dollar exchange rate is like an american dollar is worth 0.56 soap bars.

You can also tilt the control stick backwards diagonally and if you do it right, you can crouch and jab. Uses include ccing into jab. And jab canceling to look cool.

 

[SPAWN]

Oh, well I've always just dsmashed and it's been working out.

 

[soap]

a bar of soap costs more than a dollar.

unless u get like the cheap stuff

strangely enough i use bodywash.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Oh, well I've always just dsmashed and it's been working out.

No, I mean if you try that jab cancel tricksies in today's day and age, you will BE D-smashed. Or grabbed, depending on the character.

There's like 14-15 frames in between jab cancels.

============
FRAME DATA
============

Most of this is off the top of my head, I don't think I'm wrong but if I got numbers wrong, somebody tell me please.

Jab IASAs on 16, and hits on 2/3. So, if you hit them on 2, you hitlag for whatever, stun them for barely anything, and then they have (assuming no stun) frames 3 - 16 to hit you. So 13. But then you're jab canceling into another jab, so you have another 2 frames before your next move hits so it goes up to 15.

15 is a long time.

If you somehow super space or super time it, you can hit with the 3rd frame of the jab and reduce time in between by 1 whole frame.

I'm not sure exactly how long a jab stuns a crouching opponent, but it's not long at all. Definitely less than 5 frames, they definitely have enough time to retaliate.

For all intents and purposes, the second jab in the natural jab combo is safer because you transition from the move on frame 10. So you jab on 2/3, wait for 7 frames, and then the second hit starts and hits on 3. So 13 frames. So, in actuality, AA is faster than A-cancel-A. By a whole 2 frames.

It's still plenty punishable D:

============
END FRAME DATA
============

tl;dr you don't save anything; AA is faster than A-down-A.

I steal soap from Four Seasons.

Body Wash should be mandatory at multiple-day tournaments. Or, if there is an absense of showers to go around, Febreeze.

edit: I decided to check SDM and corrected this.

 

[SPAWN]

Why would someone want to dsmash you? Grabbing gets you ***** so much harder.

Unless it's Marth. Marth's dsmash is hilarious.

 

[KirbyKaze]

idk why I said d-smash, it was what came to mind first.

You're right that generally cc grab is too good.

 

[SPAWN]

Grabbing isn't too hard though. Hold down, shield, mash a button. That's what I'm used to getting punished by at least.

 

[Plairnkk]

Yeah i get cc grabbed a lot when i get too jabhappy ~_~

 

[KirbyKaze]

My brain is melty.

I should have said grab but I was probably thinking about Peach or something ~_~

 

[raychun1]

well, mr. KKaze is right. a dsmash or grab will occur if they CC it. maybe even a d-tilt. however, it seems to work for cap and samus. i think it's better for shield pressure as opposed to getting them trapped in jabs.

btw, you can't jab cancel the ice climber's for some reason. they have an amazing cc, grab, and dsmash. i think the matchup is 55-45 climbers, like the matchup chart says. i'm not 100% sure tho. played it with 3 different ic's this week, but there's still a lot of weird stuff going.

-yoshi's and stadium are so good for ic's
-final is not that bad, but banning it is still a good idea
-bair doesn't do shieeeet onstage. it's good off stage. i swear, they can just get under you like instantly
-you can't miss l-cancels

question: is fair'ing constantly a good shield pressure tactic??? it didn't work all the time, but sometimes it did. i dunno if i'm doing it right

 

[KirbyKaze]

I can think of things I'd rather do on a shield than jab cancel with Sheik. Grabbing, for instance.

You can Jab cancel with ICs. There's a video on Youtube where someone infinites a mashing Ganon with it, actually. It's funny.

Gentleman leaves Falcon less open than Sheik's jab cancels.

Samus idk I don't know anything about Samus except Sheik beats her.

I don't know what to say about ICs, besides Wobbles at Pound 3 in an interrupted friendly eons ago I've never played a good one.

Spaced Fair is good for pressure in general, but if you can sneak a grab in on a shielding opponent, that's even better. Unfortunately, grabs are terrible against ICs.

I like Bair, but it's got a lot of weaknesses against ICs if they're careful.

 

[soap]

space autocancel fair to grab on shield.

it's not guaranteed, but i do it all the time to good people so idk.

if ur playing someone smaller than u with less grab range, it is a good tactic

 

[Teczer0]

So...

I played Cactuar's sheik the other day..... with my fox....

And he was down a stock and he took my 3rd stock off.

Then to run out my invincibility he went from one end of FD, and rolled like 7 times in one direction. And grabbed me and I died.

..... ****en Cactus.......

<33333333333

 

[Cactuar]

Ya I'm the best. lolol

~~~~~~<33333333333~~~~~~

 

[Teczer0]

ROFL

If you didn't live all the way down in PA I think I would play you like every week

 

[Devil Ray]

things da Devil learned this past weekend:

1. jab cancelling is awesome, but you need to space it.

2. uptilt beats foxy's full hop nair(if you're under)

3. if you space sheik's fair on a shield, they can't shield grab you

4. fox and falco's bairs go through EVERYTHING sheik has, or trades hits

5. nair has so much potential, can be used in a million ways

X. pika counters sheik?

 

[soap]

jab cancelling is meh

uptilt works sometimes, foxes don't fullhop nair anymore so much

#3 is all i do with sheik

your bair goes through their bair

nair is cool

pikachu gets chaingrabbed

forwards sheik lost to axe, but forward wasnt being gay like tope

 

[KirbyKaze]

X. pika counters sheik?

-_________________________-

This message was brought to you by the Common Sense Committee of the Internet.

 

[Teczer0]

jab cancelling is meh

uptilt works sometimes, foxes don't fullhop nair anymore so much

#3 is all i do with sheik

your bair goes through their bair

nair is cool

pikachu gets chaingrabbed

forwards sheik lost to axe, but forward wasnt being gay like tope

I love sheik's jab cancel dunno what YOUZE talkin boutz

And Kikamaru? Thats random ROFL

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

lmao ray. was that a MM or just a set?

 

[Teczer0]

I like sheik's ftilt.

And her uptilt is such a dam good move.

Discuss?

I need more uses for dtilt

 

[KirbyKaze]

D-tilt has more range than her D-smash.

 

[Teczer0]

Hmm but usually for me range isn't an issue with Dsmash.

I use dsmash rarely and I only really use it for tech chases, edgeguards and as a CCC.

>_>

 

[Devil Ray]

i think the space animals bair beats sheiks bair at certain angles. i swear it beats almost everything in the game. and if their bairs don't go thru, it trades.

i lost to kels' pikachu in a $1 MM. i got fronzled badly. pika is weird. i don't even know what moves he's doing half the time. it's stupid.

about jabs, if the opponent is CC'ing they get sucked in closer to you(this happens with all CC's i guess). so if you keep on jabbing, they can get closer and closer to do a dtilt or some move that works with cc'ing. that's why you have to space it. jab cancelling is incredible on shields tho, it's like my new favorite thing.

 

[Teczer0]

Don't jab too often.

I only jab on my opponent's shield. And I do it occasionally.

Jabbing a lot is begging to get CC grabbed .

 

[KirbyKaze]

Teczero should win more tournaments.

So he can enter other tournaments.

And show everyone how **** he is.

 

[soap]

i pressure shields with dtilt alot after an ac fair

particularly against ganon and marth.

tall people cant grab u out of the crouch

i still dtilt against jiggs alot. it sneaks right in under their sh fair spacing before they can float away again