Don't worry, he doesn't have a main.
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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA
- Thread starter KirbyKaze
- Start date
I think someone needs to rediscover Sheik and do something groundbreaking with her besides dsmash and ftilt to fair. Fox, falco, marth, falcon, jiggs, mewtwo and ICs have all had someone come along, change there metagame, and shake the tier list with them.
Sheik just hasn't had that many innovators in my opinion. I mean, people have been doing legde cancelled needles and her bread and butter combos for years now.. someone needs to break sheik again cause she still has so much potential. And not falling down from waveshine shouldn't be a reason she's worse than fox in the matchup, just don't get shined.
Sheik just hasn't had that many innovators in my opinion. I mean, people have been doing legde cancelled needles and her bread and butter combos for years now.. someone needs to break sheik again cause she still has so much potential. And not falling down from waveshine shouldn't be a reason she's worse than fox in the matchup, just don't get shined.
You don't need to be innovative, you just need to be smart. But when you're playing the best of the best foxes they'll still wreck you because well..It's hard to not get shined.
Think about the characters you named, mewtwo..well theres really only one or two nationally recognized m2's and even so they aren't doing anything really new, just doing what htey know with more precision. Fox, falco, marth, and jiggz are all pretty simple when you get down to it. Falcon...is just overly flashy, but its simply about reading your opponent and reacting. and Marth is really the same is sheik really, the game is all about spacing. The only big innovation that you've mentioned is in the IC's, to utilize two properly.
Really you aren't giving sheik credit. All her aerials other than like dair are stupidly good. People are realizing the usefulness of nair now too. Sure, the staple is still ftilt to fair because well, it will always work if you can set it up, but really its no different then marth, who has his own bread and butter but you have other options as well
I think this post makes no sense, but I'm hungry.
Think about the characters you named, mewtwo..well theres really only one or two nationally recognized m2's and even so they aren't doing anything really new, just doing what htey know with more precision. Fox, falco, marth, and jiggz are all pretty simple when you get down to it. Falcon...is just overly flashy, but its simply about reading your opponent and reacting. and Marth is really the same is sheik really, the game is all about spacing. The only big innovation that you've mentioned is in the IC's, to utilize two properly.
Really you aren't giving sheik credit. All her aerials other than like dair are stupidly good. People are realizing the usefulness of nair now too. Sure, the staple is still ftilt to fair because well, it will always work if you can set it up, but really its no different then marth, who has his own bread and butter but you have other options as well
I think this post makes no sense, but I'm hungry.
Marth had been dominated by ken. But then ken started getting beat.. then mew2king came along and changed how he was played. Dancing blade was used to better effect. Sh nair was abused. edgeguarding with counter, jumping off and side b, chainthrow to fsmash.. completely changed and moved up the tier list again.
Falco. Pc chris had changed falco and he was high tier, but then dashizwiz/zhu/whoever used shine, dair, utilt, w/e to zero-death half the characters there are.
Falcon - um people always tech chased, but now falcons can do more than just nair to knee to bair edgeguard.
You don't think sheik has potential? She just seems to vanilla to me, and I think she can. I think dair could combo people better, and maybe chain edgeguard. She does. Also something like ftilt >wavedash> ftilt > dair > fair..
And jiggs is different. Watch king vids in 2006 and now watch mango/sliq. Movement and spacing for jiggs has changed, nair is used more, wall of pain is not the only fallback strategy.
Being smart is knowing what else could be done. It's knowing how to get that extra percent and how to keep somebody in a combo and then lead them to the edge and finish rather than just send them flying away with the ability to get back.
We here at the sheik boards discuss alot of different options that i am way too lazy to think of right now. If you've watched any recent sheik videos recently you'll see its much more than ftilt fair
dair sucks. Not alot of priority, a good amount of start up.
k it doesnt suck, but it still sucky compared to her other aerials
if i feel goofy ill dair thru a platform then fair :D
dair sucks. Not alot of priority, a good amount of start up.
k it doesnt suck, but it still sucky compared to her other aerials
if i feel goofy ill dair thru a platform then fair :D
m2k is the best sheik and places top 2 nearly every tourney. He plays sheik nearly exclusively probably against everyone except Jman and maybe Mango I guess.
He showed us top level sheik, great edgeguards, great needle game and some tricks along with it.
We don't need to break sheik, m2k did it for us already.
He showed us top level sheik, great edgeguards, great needle game and some tricks along with it.
We don't need to break sheik, m2k did it for us already.
Yeah what he said.
Sheok exclusively? that's not true. HE plays sheik and marth nearly equally along with fox for some matchups, he posted something about it on youtube or on here, I forget the exact usage but sheik is not his main, he uses multiple characters.
Mew2king didn't break sheik, everyone had already done what he did consistently, he just did the few things better. Like nair.
He does have a lot of characters he can use but he's been using sheik a lot.
Like nearly every singles games = sheik.
And what do you want? Him to use like dair all the time?
Some moves are just inferior and others are just superior. m2k uses the CHAIN thats about as far as sheik can go I mean the only thing m2k hasn't done with sheik is turn into zelda and fight.
Like nearly every singles games = sheik.
And what do you want? Him to use like dair all the time?
Some moves are just inferior and others are just superior. m2k uses the CHAIN thats about as far as sheik can go I mean the only thing m2k hasn't done with sheik is turn into zelda and fight.
That would be cool to switch to zelda during a match. then your opponent would be so confused.
And no nearly every singles game is not sheik. Look on youtube/vid discussion/ his own words.. he uses sheik in teams more than singles from what I've seen.
And dair would be nice. When marth juggles space animals with uair at higher percents, sheik could juggle with dair. Just something that could make sheik more viable against space animals or ics. Even juggling with uair at low percents, or something like uthrow>ftilt> regrab> continue..
I'm surprised so many people, on the sheik boards no less, think that sheik has nothing more to unlock (or is that not a good interpretation?).
edit: So seeing him in person playing is qualification to think you know about sheik?? He said he played marth and sheik equally in some thread.
Dair would be a terrible idea. Also you know not all of his matches are on youtube so unless you've seen him play in person recently I don't think you are in much of a position to talk. I know he says Sheik is the best character in this game.
Cia
das kwl
fox still has the advantage in this situation
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
What he said in the past and what he has done recently in tournaments is completely different. At RoM he used Sheik for all but a few matches. I'll also agree that M2k Sheik is the best right now. The best original innovator for Sheik would have to be Captain Jack or KoreanDJ. Isai was also great in doubles (still is if you watch those old vids).
Razor
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2005
- Messages
- 265
i didn't know that. does jman wreck m2k's sheik???? so i'm guessing he goes marth on jman or does he fox ditto?
cuz his marth is still better, even though he thinks sheik is the better character
GOD! - Youtube is a pretty poor indicator of who m2k plays. Like Arcnatural said he plays LOTS AND LOTS of Sheik.
Also at this point in the game I think the game is broken into its not just Sheik.
Arcnatural - KDJ is imo definitely by far the most innovative sheik player eva =D.
Also at this point in the game I think the game is broken into its not just Sheik.
Arcnatural - KDJ is imo definitely by far the most innovative sheik player eva =D.
soap
Smash Hero
drephen sucks against ice climbers in general cuz the way u have to play the matchup contradicts his style. He stays on the ground and camps wavedash back dsmash and grab and does dash attacks and stuff. does not work against ic's.
drephen fails at spacing sheik aerials + needles. He doesnt even use cstick for aerials, i dont know how he spaces ground shffls at all. he ***** characters that most people actually play though so this is not a big deal.
soap
Smash Hero
she does not need to be completely reinvented, her **** works. She is very versatile and IS played many different ways and does place well. drephen, forward, m2k, reno (all very different sheiks that win tournies or place well) There are alot more sub-amazing level sheiks with individual styles as well. Also who cares about the tier list?
dair combos are underused.
i was watching some kira vids recently, he uses usmash to dair combos nicely.
around 2:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBAJ4quF4bc&feature=related
even with good DI on the dair, kira combos it into fair.
mango + forward use them good too. It is a risk that they will escape the combo before being sent offstage, but a risk worth taking provided the situation is right.
KDJ didn't innovate the character. his style was innovative in that he did cool random stuff that ***** but isnt necessarily a staple technique that can be replicated in matches. He did different **** every match and showed that just playing smart and intuitive is ****.
drephen actually plays kinda like DJ now, he is very adaptive and versatile with his 3 moves.
u should look past WHAT they are doing(the same moves), and more into the HOW they are doing it or their thought process behind their techchasing, comboes, edgeguards etc. and it is quite versatile in different situations.
I was talking to drephen about sidestepping today and he was like, "ya, i dont just do it at the same time, i use a different reactionary beat based on the situation" He is a music major btw lol.
LOL
I guess what I meant is dair is very situational and most of the times you can use it I find that there is normally a better option, but I suck so that's just me
soap
Smash Hero
its better mid-combo rather than an approach.
could be used to tech chase after downthrow around 70% and to tech chase on platforms.
not a bad approach either if u cross over shields with it.
could be used to tech chase after downthrow around 70% and to tech chase on platforms.
not a bad approach either if u cross over shields with it.
I've used it to tech chase on platforms but thats really it
Sometimes ill platform drop dair for lolz and if i get it it leads into a nice fair
Sometimes ill platform drop dair for lolz and if i get it it leads into a nice fair
soap
Smash Hero
try it on fastfallers after a dash attack or usmash at mid percents.
if they repeatedly survival DI u can string a few dairs together before fair. usually do just one though
if they repeatedly survival DI u can string a few dairs together before fair. usually do just one though
Jartravious
Smash Journeyman
ok so i'm noticing that i'm shielding way to much and that because of it i'm getting grabed a lot but when i watched some sheik videos (excluding drephen) i don't see many sheiks using down dodge or rolls mostly just wave dashes and shield is there a reason for that?
Because roll is really punishable. WD OoS is usually a better and leads to more options.
The main reason is to be as unpredictable as possible.
It also has to do with baiting your opponent and stuff like that.
Don't side step or roll too often, its bad for your health. And by your health I mean sheik's stocks. That goes for any character you play really.
It also has to do with baiting your opponent and stuff like that.
Don't side step or roll too often, its bad for your health. And by your health I mean sheik's stocks. That goes for any character you play really.
Jartravious
Smash Journeyman
i totally see that but it seems like you would want to use all the reliable options to mix it up as much as possible i guess i should just work on when to apply WD OoS, shielding, and some spot dodging?
Well the thing is WD OOS is pretty difficult to punish.
Its very safe and reliable, hence thats why it gets used so often. Also just because someone is shielding doesn't mean they are gonna WD OOS either. They can just jump or attack OOS.
In other words kinda hard to punish. Side stepping isn't bad in moderation either, but most players tend to try to stay away from it because it very easily becomes a habit.
Its very safe and reliable, hence thats why it gets used so often. Also just because someone is shielding doesn't mean they are gonna WD OOS either. They can just jump or attack OOS.
In other words kinda hard to punish. Side stepping isn't bad in moderation either, but most players tend to try to stay away from it because it very easily becomes a habit.
yeah...tho roll is really easy to predict. So i try not to use that at all.
Jartravious
Smash Journeyman
all right i'm guessing its the same with teching/getting up options? are there any that specifically sheik should avoid?
always remember
switch ya swag up!
switch ya swag up!
CanISmash
Smash Lord
why d-air when you can f-air or anything to put yourself into a position to edge guard?
i d-aire spiked someone on yoshis before lololol a wall spike but it looked really weird like almost a legit spike
i d-aire spiked someone on yoshis before lololol a wall spike but it looked really weird like almost a legit spike
Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqcgA2TVSUk&feature=channel_page
I think I should have grabbed more and done more with them. Also there was a stock I should have taken (at around 0:45) Also I carelessly got above him, and have a poor edge game (still not comfortable with sheik).
But thanks for the lookie.
Edit: 2:23 was stupid too >_<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqcgA2TVSUk&feature=channel_page
I think I should have grabbed more and done more with them. Also there was a stock I should have taken (at around 0:45) Also I carelessly got above him, and have a poor edge game (still not comfortable with sheik).
But thanks for the lookie.
Edit: 2:23 was stupid too >_<
soap
Smash Hero
how do u jump out of chaingrabs in shek dittoes?
ive seen forward do it multiple times
and drephen does it too.
anyone familiar with the DI and mechanics of this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfLWOuj7vFM&feature=channel_page
ive seen forward do it multiple times
and drephen does it too.
anyone familiar with the DI and mechanics of this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfLWOuj7vFM&feature=channel_page
To me it looks like Forward just didn't DI and just mashed jump.
I mean its just speculation though.
We would have to ask Forward probably. Forward's sheik is sooooooooooooooooo good >_<
I mean its just speculation though.
We would have to ask Forward probably. Forward's sheik is sooooooooooooooooo good >_<
soap
Smash Hero
also, note forwards dair use. It combos most of the time
Meh I think they coulda been replaced but hey what do I know.
The double dair was funny though.
I wanna see more of Taj's sheik. Cuz red sheiks are cool
The double dair was funny though.
I wanna see more of Taj's sheik. Cuz red sheiks are cool
Yeah I think the dair could've been replaced with a few other things but hey its good to know it works in different situations.
R3N0
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2006
- Messages
- 1,899
yo neighborhood p got really good =x
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235874
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235874