Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Razor]

i don't think the marth vs fox chaingrab is a valid analogy. the ic's grab works on like almost every stage and ic's have at least 3 different cg's on sheik. the ic's counter is not a myth.

plus, what stage does sheik have an advantage on? fod? rainbow cruise? i mean if you go to the moving stages they'll probably just switch chars and then it's a whole 'nother matchup.

 

[Cia]

^ it's my way of keeping interest in the game. as much as i hate to say this, it's becoming a bit repetitive to to me. but i've been having a lot of fun endlessly chaingrabbing/ tech chasing people lately. so i'm going to stick with ICz for a while.

Sheik v ICz.

Pros

- Dsmash destroys them
- Nana cannot crouch cancel, so just fair away. keep in mind that when you fair both Nana + Popo's Sheild, the hit stays out longer. and with ICz low traction.. i really don't see how they can punish it.
- PLATFORMS!! ledge canceled needle > Fair is sheiks version of DrillShineBackflip. and the longer you stay on platforms, less it is likely you will be death grabbed.
- needle ***** WD approach.

Cons

- ICz grab ***** her.
- Super combo-able weight class
- Single climber can 0-60 ish CG combo sheik
- grabbing while there are 2 climbers is generally a bad idea. sheik's slow grab animations will usually be punished by the other climber.

i personally give the match up a 6:4 in sheik's favor. even or slightly in ICz favor on FD. but thank goodness for bans.

oh and another thing. try not to be too predictable with your platform hopping. i've zero to death punished sheik's who've used their second jump with a series of Uairs > tech chase double Dsmash > death guard.

read this post. maybe you're just playing the match up incorrectly because it's not 'BAD' for sheik. ICz have a million chaingrabs on everyone (including wobbling) but that doesn't stop them from BARELY being in high tier. if you're still having trouble with the match up after this, then there's a chance that your opponent is just better than you.

 

[Razor]

vanz, you might be right about having better ic's opponents than myself. i'll never deny when a person is plain better than me.

but i mean would anyone here go sheik on chudat? or wobbles? i think it's a really scary matchup for sheik. like i consider fox having the advantage over sheik, but that matchup is fun bc both players have to play straight up against each other. gimps and shines may happen, but you have to earn your win. i don't like the idea that i have to be extra-super-careful against a grab like in brawl or something.

 

[thumbswayup]

i don't like the idea that i have to be extra-super-careful against a grab like in brawl or something.

This is the exact reason I hate playing against the ICs. Not fun at all. It's just running away from them the entire match. So stupid.

 

[Cia]

well.. if i had to play ChuDat in a tournament match right now, i would lead with peach. My peach is pretty solid and i'm pretty confident in it. Now, he would most likely pick pikachu knowing that i'm going to be Peach.

I'm pretty sure i could take his pikachu with peach, but if i lose, i'd counterpick FD (my favorite stage next to brinstar). this. at this point, he would decide to stay or switch to ICz. if he stayed, i'd switch to sheik. if he went ICz. i'd stay peach. Call me cocky or whatever, but i'm going to say that there's a 98% chance i'm winning this round.

Third game, i'd go Sheik. If i'd lost to his pikachu with peach the first game, it'd just make sense to go sheik because my peach having lost before would probably lose again. with sheik, i might be more successful seeing as how i'm prepared for both ICz and pikachu match ups.

I'd really like to play him in tournament though. His ICz are pretty entertaining to watch. and being that I'm playing them more frequently these days, i want to steal some stuff from him.. lol

 

[thumbswayup]

Chu's ICs are still ridiculous. I've never seen such crazy **** from any other IC play in the world.

 

[pockyD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE5YxKffCtQ

this is just when people were starting to get the guts to even try the matchup too

it's far better for sheik now than it was back then, it's at the VERY LEAST even, and I personally think sheik has the edge on every stage that isn't FD or corneria

 

[Teczer0]

Razor - Chu is a top player in the US and most of us are just above average players (Even though the average skill level for melee now is SO dam high >_>)

I wouldn't go Sheik vs Chu because I am far more comfortable in the Fox vs Icz match up rather than the Sheik vs Icz match up.

In pound 3 I went sheik vs an ICz in pools, granted I had no idea he played Icz but I wasn't like omg I'm screwed in my head.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Yeah using Chu and Wobbles as your examples isn't usually het normal scenario. I'd feel confident against most IC players other than a select few, on which I would try fox (cuz I'd lose anyways) and just be gay with shine stuff.

 

[GOD!]

Question:
Sheik is supposed to be the best character (or tied with fox) and he has so many easy and automatic combos, tech chases, chaingrabs, etc. Why does sheik never win major tourneys like fox does?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Because playing sheik is gay and people want to play someone who is flashy and fun. And Fox seems to have the slight advantage on sheik because of waveshine grab gayness.

 

[pockyD]

fox is better than sheik

 

[Binx]

cause not very many REALLY good players use Sheik. Also Sheik has an advantage vs Fox except at the absolute highest level of play, oh yeah and if Fox is supposed to be SO **** good (he is) why does Marth win all the largest tournaments (except when jigglypuff wins them)

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Also Sheik has an advantage vs Fox except at the absolute highest level of play

Isn't that what we usually assume when talking about matchups? Or I do at least.

 

[pockyD]

i feel that once people learn to tech consistently, waveshine, and CROUCH CANCEL, fox beats sheik

and it's only at the 'highest' level (once the sheik player can punish near perfectly) that sheik starts to pull back towards even

 

[DtJ Jungle]

When fox learns when to CC sheiks **** the match becomes very gay.

 

[Cia]

because the marth is usually Mew2king.

and Sheik wins when she's Mew2king.. or Drephen sometimes.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

KDJ was known to win once in a while too

 

[Teczer0]

KDJ, Ken and Azen taught me the basics of melee.

KDJ taught me that charging Smashes = extreme win

Ken taught me to stand still so people roll/side step into your grabs.

Azen taught me that fsmash is ridiculously amazing.

What does this mean?

I have no idea. I like to post stuff that doesn't mean anything now.

 

[soap]

KDJ, Ken and Azen taught me the basics of melee.

KDJ taught me that charging Smashes = extreme win

Ken taught me to stand still so people roll/side step into your grabs.

Azen taught me that fsmash is ridiculously amazing.

What does this mean?

I have no idea. I like to post stuff that doesn't mean anything now.

i can like.... barely remember those people anymore.

i need to watch some smash history channel

 

[Cia]

Mew2King taught me to overwhelm people with frame perfection

 

[Binx]

I was just proving a point, even though Fox is recognized as the best he doesn't always win, I know WHY Marth wins big tourneys, people need to realize it isn't the character its the person.

But yeah I basically agree that you have to have near perfect punishment to pull the matchup between Fox and Sheik back to even. And I think most people only really focus on their personal match ups when asking advice or giving input, not the highest level of the metagame. Cause to be honest how many people does that apply to? 10? 15? so yeah most of us, even really good people lose to Sheik, I just like to point out that if you are very very good you can keep it about even. But Fox is a sheik counter at my level of play still, so... i dunno where i was going with this.

 

[Binx]

So guys I'm thinking that I need to play more carefully and use less tilts, cause I got the **** CCed out of me the last tourney I went to.

 

[soap]

So guys I'm thinking that I need to play more carefully and use less tilts, cause I got the **** CCed out of me the last tourney I went to.

do u go mostly ic's or sheik in tourny?

im thinking of using fox on falco. It is so much easier. I play the same pretty much, except everything i do is now safe on cc cuz i can shine.

from a competitive standpoint, sheik needs to be totally phased out imo. Keep her as a secondary for lolz.

 

[Teczer0]

So guys I'm thinking that I need to play more carefully and use less tilts, cause I got the **** CCed out of me the last tourney I went to.

I feel the same, I need to tilt less and just grab more or something.

Soap - I think sheik is useful, sheik isn't that obsolete, I'm planning to keep my sheik personally =D.

 

[soap]

she has the marth + samus matchup down slightly better than fox imo. Other than that she is just a curveball.

i remember talking with my friend, if the whole game was just "super starfox brothers"

u had only fox+falco, one level, FD. would u still play it? I would, hehe. the level of general tech would be insane.

Being good at fox dittoes makes other matchups feel like slomo. not that im good at fox dittoes. just playing them for a while has that effect on me though.

 

[Binx]

I mostly go sheik in tourneys because ICs don't have enough range to compete, although I have less bad habits with them than I do Sheik, I feel like a super character when I play sheik cause ICs aren't very good. And I think I occasionally play worse for it. My problem is I practice with people who CC less often than they should be /less than the tournament players I played against, so I'm used to spaced aerials into tilts into tech chases/combos.

But that doesn't work cause its like spaced aerial into get grabbed cause they CCed my tilt/jab. But I have trouble stopping myself cause I'm used to getting such a good payout on them after aerials, I should just play it more like I'm Marth and fair all day ha, or play like I do fox and just run around and bair when they mess up. Sheik prolly wouldn't be able to do it the same way though cause she doesn't fall as quickly.

 

[soap]

I mostly go sheik in tourneys because ICs don't have enough range to compete, although I have less bad habits with them than I do Sheik, I feel like a super character when I play sheik cause ICs aren't very good. And I think I occasionally play worse for it. My problem is I practice with people who CC less often than they should be /less than the tournament players I played against, so I'm used to spaced aerials into tilts into tech chases/combos.

But that doesn't work cause its like spaced aerial into get grabbed cause they CCed my tilt/jab. But I have trouble stopping myself cause I'm used to getting such a good payout on them after aerials, I should just play it more like I'm Marth and fair all day ha, or play like I do fox and just run around and bair when they mess up. Sheik prolly wouldn't be able to do it the same way though cause she doesn't fall as quickly.

that full hop autocancel nair i found out about a while ago has really been useful. Just trap people in situations where they are going to jump and u do full hop nair then fastfall. if they jumped u get a free grab. i feel like i have a frame advantage on cc and shields too, cuz i just do moves and hit them first. i started autocanceling everything and dont worry about cc as much anymore. u can like always dsmash before their counter comes out if u fastfalled right, or just shield.

get the timing down and try spamming it in some friendlies, u will see what i mean

i was just playin with the fox talk. Its hard to play the character that everybody plays, even if he is slightly more efficient.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Playing fox dittos for an hour makes the rest of hte game seem like it's on painkillers.

 

[soap]

backwards roll is quicker and longer than forward roll correct?

u could like dash dance forward and pivot into a backwards roll to get behind people quickly.

 

[KirbyKaze]

cc fox ***** sheik

well not **** but it's pretty good against her

 

[Razor]

here's my analogy of the ice climbers vs sheik matchup:

(marth vs sheik) is about as bad as (sheik vs ice climbers)

if that even remotely true, then it's pretty bad -_-
that bad of a matchup, i'm gonna skip.

 

[pockyD]

if that were true, maybe

 

[Teczer0]

here's my analogy of the ice climbers vs sheik matchup:

(marth vs sheik) is about as bad as (sheik vs ice climbers)

if that even remotely true, then it's pretty bad -_-
that bad of a matchup, i'm gonna skip.

I think thats about right .......

Well... I guess it depends how bad you think the marth vs sheik match up is.

 

[Razor]

LMAO how bad is it?
whenever i see a marfy, my pants buldge so hard my buttons pop off.

jk, but seriously it's not fun for marth. i lose to marth fairly often, but i always feel like i have such an upper hand. in that perspective, i would never go sheik on ice climbers just like i would never go marth on sheik.

someone get drephen in here, i hear he's never beaten hochimntrail before. that's pretty crazy.

 

[Teczer0]

I like the match up its one of my favorite match ups since its **** for either side imo.

I think Marth does fine, I think people blow it outta proportion.

Imo its not ALWAYS in sheik's favor, I think its more often in her favor but not all the time.

 

[Spife]

lul I'm glad I main link for IC's, who eat projectiles, nairs and uptilts.
>_>

 

[Teczer0]

I'm glad I'm actually not a sheik main and play fox.

Cuz fox does good everywhere vs anyone

 

[thumbswayup]

I'm glad I'm actually not a sheik main and play fox.

Cuz fox does good everywhere vs anyone

Against Jiggs on Mute City?

>_>

You must be crazy.

 

[Teczer0]

Hey,

PC could do it.

But since I'm not PC I'd just go Peach and proceed to play the most boring match in melee =D. (Right under Jiggs dittos on Mute)