KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
If your spacing is awesome your aerials don't lose to CC D-smash.
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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA
- Thread starter KirbyKaze
- Start date
Twin_A
Smash Champion
Flattered :D
Thats why I stuck with mostly back airs until i started learning the match up more. It's not hard to space well and most peaches have a hard time getting around it. It helped me almost beat Vanity Angel, MacD, and I beat every other peach I played at pound and apex with it. The only person it didn't work on: Armada XP
The best thing you can do vs him is set down your controller and ask him to make the combos memorable.
Twin_A
Smash Champion
My question for you guys:
What are some overall good strategies for the luigi matchup? I know D-throw nair works well and needle his wavedash approaches to frustrate them.
I beat a luigi player at our recent tourney in winners semis but then lost to him in losers finals >.<
(in part because everytime I chased him off the stage he misfired. And I mean EVERY time! Jerk >.>)
sorry for the double post
What are some overall good strategies for the luigi matchup? I know D-throw nair works well and needle his wavedash approaches to frustrate them.
I beat a luigi player at our recent tourney in winners semis but then lost to him in losers finals >.<
(in part because everytime I chased him off the stage he misfired. And I mean EVERY time! Jerk >.>)
sorry for the double post
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Wow noob learn to Luigi
God this is like when that noob nicaboy couldn't beat Blea Gelo all over again
D-throw Nair sucks
You can D-throw Uair him at every percent (until like 145%+) against every DI he does so like do that a lot because it ***** like nothing you've ever seen. Then you prey on Luigi players having a dependency on the Green button and shield grab the Nair after you Uair. Oh yeah don't Uair until 15 because he'll break out before you land, before like 15 you have to F-tilt and then do it if he DIs away, at like 0 you can U-tilt but otherwise don't.
If they don't Nair to try and combo break because they double jump you just go under them and wait because Luigi sucks when people are beneath him. If they don't Nair to try and combo break because they air dodge you just wait for the dodge and **** him because Luigi sucks. If they do nothing to try and combo break you Nair OOS or U-smash OOS if you're baller. Or make something hilarious up and it'll probably work because he's DOING NOTHING.
Needles ****
WD OOS ***** SUPER HARD
Dash into shield *****
DI his throws behind him unless you like being combo'd for some weird reason
It can be dangerous to get above him with simple jumps because his WD U-tilt ***** so don't be stupid with your aerials but they're really good against him if you use them carefully
Platform camping alright and by that I mean it's pretty **** but don't be a dumb dumb with it
Don't tilt when he's grounded. Tilts are actually not that good vs Luigi.
Edgeguard with awesome ****, so basically do Needles and invincible Bair/Nair, you can jump off but if you do then do your move kind of early so if he misfires you'll beat it because you're FAWKIN SHEIK
D-throw Fair to put him offstage is nasty
If you're baller after the D-throw Uair/F-tilt you can gamble your timing skills against his Nair and D-smash and try to get the invincible hit and then **** through his Nair and he'll be like "whoa" and you'll be like MOTHERFAWKER
Oh yeah never D-smash his shield for any reason unless you like being Up+Bed or D-smashed into combos
God this is like when that noob nicaboy couldn't beat Blea Gelo all over again
D-throw Nair sucks
You can D-throw Uair him at every percent (until like 145%+) against every DI he does so like do that a lot because it ***** like nothing you've ever seen. Then you prey on Luigi players having a dependency on the Green button and shield grab the Nair after you Uair. Oh yeah don't Uair until 15 because he'll break out before you land, before like 15 you have to F-tilt and then do it if he DIs away, at like 0 you can U-tilt but otherwise don't.
If they don't Nair to try and combo break because they double jump you just go under them and wait because Luigi sucks when people are beneath him. If they don't Nair to try and combo break because they air dodge you just wait for the dodge and **** him because Luigi sucks. If they do nothing to try and combo break you Nair OOS or U-smash OOS if you're baller. Or make something hilarious up and it'll probably work because he's DOING NOTHING.
Needles ****
WD OOS ***** SUPER HARD
Dash into shield *****
DI his throws behind him unless you like being combo'd for some weird reason
It can be dangerous to get above him with simple jumps because his WD U-tilt ***** so don't be stupid with your aerials but they're really good against him if you use them carefully
Platform camping alright and by that I mean it's pretty **** but don't be a dumb dumb with it
Don't tilt when he's grounded. Tilts are actually not that good vs Luigi.
Edgeguard with awesome ****, so basically do Needles and invincible Bair/Nair, you can jump off but if you do then do your move kind of early so if he misfires you'll beat it because you're FAWKIN SHEIK
D-throw Fair to put him offstage is nasty
If you're baller after the D-throw Uair/F-tilt you can gamble your timing skills against his Nair and D-smash and try to get the invincible hit and then **** through his Nair and he'll be like "whoa" and you'll be like MOTHERFAWKER
Oh yeah never D-smash his shield for any reason unless you like being Up+Bed or D-smashed into combos
Twin_A
Smash Champion
I love you David. Will you marry me?
And I've had zero Luigi practice my entire smash career. To me he's always been like the boogie man and smart blondes. You're warned that they're out there but you never see one.
And I've had zero Luigi practice my entire smash career. To me he's always been like the boogie man and smart blondes. You're warned that they're out there but you never see one.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Dude I grew up with fawkin Luigis.
Don't let his identity as a clown fool you - he only has a few good jokes. The rest of his act is stand-up garbage.
edit:
If you're facing offstage and are kind of close to the edge when you D-throw Luigi and he DIs behind you at a decent percent (like, 50+) then just dash into Bair or Nair so you hit him offstage, or jump back and Fair him so he goes offstage. Don't be scrubby and Uair lol. And don't do garbage like F-throw lol.
Don't let his identity as a clown fool you - he only has a few good jokes. The rest of his act is stand-up garbage.
edit:
If you're facing offstage and are kind of close to the edge when you D-throw Luigi and he DIs behind you at a decent percent (like, 50+) then just dash into Bair or Nair so you hit him offstage, or jump back and Fair him so he goes offstage. Don't be scrubby and Uair lol. And don't do garbage like F-throw lol.
MacD
Banned via Administration
looks like i'm going to have to 4 stock someone next time i play him
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
MacD I hear Kira is playing again
Is he helping you get the Sheik practice you want/don't want?
Is he helping you get the Sheik practice you want/don't want?
Twin_A
Smash Champion
Getting 4 stocked by macD and flirted with by kirbykaze. Can this day get any better!? :D
I love typing in people who names search BANKS and just seeing if they pop up.
Thanks for the luigi advice KK :D
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
That's only the beginning of my anti-Luigi strats.
But that should suffice for now.
But that should suffice for now.
Twin_A
Smash Champion
Just read the revised version of it. Good stuff kk.
If you're baller after the D-throw Uair/F-tilt you can gamble your timing skills against his Nair and D-smash and try to get the invincible hit and then **** through his Nair and he'll be like "whoa" and you'll be like MOTHERFAWKER
Too good :D
If you're baller after the D-throw Uair/F-tilt you can gamble your timing skills against his Nair and D-smash and try to get the invincible hit and then **** through his Nair and he'll be like "whoa" and you'll be like MOTHERFAWKER
Too good :D
Banks
Smash Hero
and here i am
MacD
Banned via Administration
if by playing again you mean starcraft then yes
and if by sheik practice you mean zerg then not yet, i'm still too noob for his 600ish point diamond level
GawdImFoxy
Smash Journeyman
Didn't feel any love the first time.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Her Bair is a sex kick.
A sex kick is any move that stays out for a while and gets weaker the longer it's out. Usually done with Nairs.
Sex kicks are good.
kira is a bidoof. I want to play him.
A sex kick is any move that stays out for a while and gets weaker the longer it's out. Usually done with Nairs.
Sex kicks are good.
kira is a bidoof. I want to play him.
Iron Dragon
Smash Lord
Luigi is pretty simple imo.
The biggest part I really think is as KK said, WD OOS into stuff. Luigi can't really use anything to beat what you do except maybe f-tilt and even then I don't know, so just WD OOS and grab him. Any time they're below a percent that you can dthrow them into a move, just sit there and wait because chances are they'll nair 100% of the time so then just run in and slap his ***** ***.
Needle him when he's recovering. Do this and he will not make it back. I don't care how much he misfires, needles **** everything. Also as KK said dashing into shield is rly good because Luigi's if they're smart will space ftilt a lot on people and when they do that and u run in and shield u get the "power" part of the shield. it's not like u powershielded the attack but ur shield is just stronger as u dash in it seems. you can grab them. make sure that when u get luigi off the stage he NEVER comes back. im also like 99% sure that spacing fair on him works effectively even if they CC it and try to grab(KK can correct me on this if im wrong =D).
The biggest part I really think is as KK said, WD OOS into stuff. Luigi can't really use anything to beat what you do except maybe f-tilt and even then I don't know, so just WD OOS and grab him. Any time they're below a percent that you can dthrow them into a move, just sit there and wait because chances are they'll nair 100% of the time so then just run in and slap his ***** ***.
Needle him when he's recovering. Do this and he will not make it back. I don't care how much he misfires, needles **** everything. Also as KK said dashing into shield is rly good because Luigi's if they're smart will space ftilt a lot on people and when they do that and u run in and shield u get the "power" part of the shield. it's not like u powershielded the attack but ur shield is just stronger as u dash in it seems. you can grab them. make sure that when u get luigi off the stage he NEVER comes back. im also like 99% sure that spacing fair on him works effectively even if they CC it and try to grab(KK can correct me on this if im wrong =D).
HT F8
Hostile Takeover
Best edgeguard vs spacies' UpB from below? I always panic and Fair-suicide. -_- Or Dsmash and get hit.
MarsFool!
Smash Lord
Down smash if they don't Sweet spot. Sheik can bair gimp pretty well too so depending on the amount of room given just drop off the ledge, rising bair, get the ledge before them. Needles to fair worked for me once...
If you're getting hit out of the dsmash back away from the edge a little. You want your feet to stick out but not your body.
If you're getting hit out of the dsmash back away from the edge a little. You want your feet to stick out but not your body.
nicaboy
Smash Champion
um that blea gelo kid beat plank so i hear.... **** you kk
after playing him stoned i got some new tricks. if your a campy sheik(me
) you can platform camp with needles. also if your really good (not kirbykaze ) you can full hop n air above luigi ang begin to pull out as the attack ends. luigi has no move to trade if your above him with nair. he will lose almost every single time.
after playing him stoned i got some new tricks. if your a campy sheik(me
) you can platform camp with needles. also if your really good (not kirbykaze ) you can full hop n air above luigi ang begin to pull out as the attack ends. luigi has no move to trade if your above him with nair. he will lose almost every single time.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Plank also lost to Kage. But beat Ka-Master.
Whatever though. I'll MM Blea at the next event we're both at lol.
Also his U-tilt, Uair, and U-smash all eat through your Nair but sure if you want to try that you can.
Whatever though. I'll MM Blea at the next event we're both at lol.
Also his U-tilt, Uair, and U-smash all eat through your Nair but sure if you want to try that you can.
nicaboy
Smash Champion
its hard to explain. you can platform camp so hard and use n air as a method to escape safely. if its full hopped up tilt/smash cant hit you. blea tried up air and that **** wasnt working. gotta love that sex kick.
anyway so who here is going to to6? Im going to make everyone so proud!
anyway so who here is going to to6? Im going to make everyone so proud!
iamthemicrowave
Smash Master
plank beat ka master theres no way hed lose to blea
blea is the **** i played him at p4, funny guy
blea is the **** i played him at p4, funny guy
unknown522
Some guy
blea's cool. I 4-stocked him with fox/falco/mario many times during pound 4.
Some were on the livestream.
Some were on the livestream.
DJRome
Smash Hero
unknown is just not a cool person
MacD
Banned via Administration
i agree with the first part
Twin_A
Smash Champion
Unknown is awesome what are you smoking? 
Blea was pretty cool too. Didn't play him though.
Blea was pretty cool too. Didn't play him though.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I assure you at least one of his aerials can be positioned to beat it pretty easily. Either his Fair or Uair.
Nair is still okay against him though because for him to Uair or Fair it means he has to jump and when Luigi jumps around he can't CC or, well, move for that matter.
soap
Smash Hero
unknown just tells it how it is
some people can't handle that
some people can't handle that
Twin_A
Smash Champion
He does!?
So that means when he said I was cool he meant it? Oh awesome day!!!!
Time to burst out into random song and dance! Who's with me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc1am3KyYgA
And this still needs to be addressed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm1Lfmo3dps
Ok I'll go now
fsdlkfjlsfjklajf
Social thread it or I'll burn you.
I meant for next time lol
Social thread it or I'll burn you.
I meant for next time lol
Twin_A
Smash Champion
Alright my bad
Question:
IC's match up. Pretty tricky but not impossible.
I saw Plank plank Kyupuff at apex and time him out to win their pools match. Is playing defensive (not necessarily planking but just staying back) the way to go in this or would an aggressive playstyle also work?
Question:
IC's match up. Pretty tricky but not impossible.
I saw Plank plank Kyupuff at apex and time him out to win their pools match. Is playing defensive (not necessarily planking but just staying back) the way to go in this or would an aggressive playstyle also work?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Conversation with Fly Amanita on it...
kirbykaze3038 12:41 am
kirbykaze3038 (12:41:37 AM):
I should move to Irvine and play smash with you a lot
kirbykaze3038 (12:41:54 AM):
Also quick ICs question
kirbykaze3038 (12:42:12 AM):
Does Sheik absolutely have to run super heavy defense in the matchup?
kirbykaze3038 (12:42:29 AM):
Someone was asking about it
kirbykaze3038 (12:42:45 AM):
I said that it's usually better to play safe vs characters like ICs because of punishment disparity
kirbykaze3038 (12:43:05 AM):
You do less by camping, so you have fewer chances of being death combo'd by their grab
Fly Amanita 12:44 am
Fly Amanita (12:44:28 AM):
I think Sheik should actually be kind of aggressive.
Fly Amanita (12:44:52 AM):
She shouldn't be rushing in headstrong or anything, but she should try to stay close enough to keep the ICs on their toes.
Fly Amanita (12:45:26 AM):
The thing with running away from ICs is that Sheik isn't that great at applying pressure from a distance.
kirbykaze3038 12:45 am
kirbykaze3038 (12:45:43 AM):
Her air needles don't fire horizontally
Fly Amanita 12:46 am
Fly Amanita (12:46:14 AM):
Well, yeah. If Sheik is doing that, then ICs can usually just sit outside of the needles range and wait for an opening.
Fly Amanita 12:46 am
Fly Amanita (12:46:59 AM):
Needles on the ground aren't that bad, but I feel like if you're in a position to be using them, then it's better to try to fight for a better position than camp
Fly Amanita (12:47:16 AM):
Like, most of the time I see Sheik's go for standing needles, they're near the side of the stage.
Fly Amanita (12:47:48 AM):
ICs can just waveshield in repeatedly to get close to her. Even if they can't punish the needles, they still gain a pretty good position relative to her
Fly Amanita (12:48:16 AM):
and I think ICs can wavedash OoS -> grab Sheik after she throws needles if she gets close enough, too
Fly Amanita (12:48:17 AM):
*if they get close enough
Fly Amanita (12:48:49 AM):
Also, back on the topic of platform camping;
Fly Amanita 12:49 am
Fly Amanita (12:49:11 AM):
I think Sheik still has more to lose from that than she has to gain, although I'm not positive about that
Fly Amanita (12:49:26 AM):
She can hit ICs with isolated needles for minor damage here and there
Fly Amanita (12:49:44 AM):
and she might be able to get an aerial off every now and then, which actually can lead to pretty good momentum shifts
Fly Amanita (12:50:11 AM):
but I think ICs more often than less will win in the long run against that sort of thing
Fly Amanita (12:50:34 AM):
They can usually just maneuver around until they coerce the Sheik into going back onto the ground, in which case they're playing on their own terms again
Fly Amanita (12:50:43 AM):
well, not necessarily, but most of the time;
Fly Amanita (12:51:04 AM):
Or they can try to uair Sheik, which typically combos into bair/uair/nair
Fly Amanita 12:51 am
Fly Amanita (12:51:23 AM):
and that tends to do a lot of damage and can put Sheik in a terrible position
Fly Amanita (12:52:26 AM):
So, yeah. Every time I feel like I'm having trouble with a Sheik, it's because the Sheik is keeping me in my shield, not letting me get under her short hops easily, and pushing me to the side of the stage often.
kirbykaze3038 12:52 am
kirbykaze3038 (12:52:42 AM):
Do you mind if I post that?
Fly Amanita 12:52 am
Fly Amanita (12:52:48 AM):
Go ahead.
kirbykaze3038 12:52 am
kirbykaze3038 (12:52:51 AM):
You phrased it very nicely
kirbykaze3038 (12:52:56 AM):
I don't feel like editing it
Fly Amanita 12:53 am
Fly Amanita (12:53:08 AM):
That's fine.
kirbykaze3038 12:41 am
kirbykaze3038 (12:41:37 AM):
I should move to Irvine and play smash with you a lot
kirbykaze3038 (12:41:54 AM):
Also quick ICs question
kirbykaze3038 (12:42:12 AM):
Does Sheik absolutely have to run super heavy defense in the matchup?
kirbykaze3038 (12:42:29 AM):
Someone was asking about it
kirbykaze3038 (12:42:45 AM):
I said that it's usually better to play safe vs characters like ICs because of punishment disparity
kirbykaze3038 (12:43:05 AM):
You do less by camping, so you have fewer chances of being death combo'd by their grab
Fly Amanita 12:44 am
Fly Amanita (12:44:28 AM):
I think Sheik should actually be kind of aggressive.
Fly Amanita (12:44:52 AM):
She shouldn't be rushing in headstrong or anything, but she should try to stay close enough to keep the ICs on their toes.
Fly Amanita (12:45:26 AM):
The thing with running away from ICs is that Sheik isn't that great at applying pressure from a distance.
kirbykaze3038 12:45 am
kirbykaze3038 (12:45:43 AM):
Her air needles don't fire horizontally
Fly Amanita 12:46 am
Fly Amanita (12:46:14 AM):
Well, yeah. If Sheik is doing that, then ICs can usually just sit outside of the needles range and wait for an opening.
Fly Amanita 12:46 am
Fly Amanita (12:46:59 AM):
Needles on the ground aren't that bad, but I feel like if you're in a position to be using them, then it's better to try to fight for a better position than camp
Fly Amanita (12:47:16 AM):
Like, most of the time I see Sheik's go for standing needles, they're near the side of the stage.
Fly Amanita (12:47:48 AM):
ICs can just waveshield in repeatedly to get close to her. Even if they can't punish the needles, they still gain a pretty good position relative to her
Fly Amanita (12:48:16 AM):
and I think ICs can wavedash OoS -> grab Sheik after she throws needles if she gets close enough, too
Fly Amanita (12:48:17 AM):
*if they get close enough
Fly Amanita (12:48:49 AM):
Also, back on the topic of platform camping;
Fly Amanita 12:49 am
Fly Amanita (12:49:11 AM):
I think Sheik still has more to lose from that than she has to gain, although I'm not positive about that
Fly Amanita (12:49:26 AM):
She can hit ICs with isolated needles for minor damage here and there
Fly Amanita (12:49:44 AM):
and she might be able to get an aerial off every now and then, which actually can lead to pretty good momentum shifts
Fly Amanita (12:50:11 AM):
but I think ICs more often than less will win in the long run against that sort of thing
Fly Amanita (12:50:34 AM):
They can usually just maneuver around until they coerce the Sheik into going back onto the ground, in which case they're playing on their own terms again
Fly Amanita (12:50:43 AM):
well, not necessarily, but most of the time;
Fly Amanita (12:51:04 AM):
Or they can try to uair Sheik, which typically combos into bair/uair/nair
Fly Amanita 12:51 am
Fly Amanita (12:51:23 AM):
and that tends to do a lot of damage and can put Sheik in a terrible position
Fly Amanita (12:52:26 AM):
So, yeah. Every time I feel like I'm having trouble with a Sheik, it's because the Sheik is keeping me in my shield, not letting me get under her short hops easily, and pushing me to the side of the stage often.
kirbykaze3038 12:52 am
kirbykaze3038 (12:52:42 AM):
Do you mind if I post that?
Fly Amanita 12:52 am
Fly Amanita (12:52:48 AM):
Go ahead.
kirbykaze3038 12:52 am
kirbykaze3038 (12:52:51 AM):
You phrased it very nicely
kirbykaze3038 (12:52:56 AM):
I don't feel like editing it
Fly Amanita 12:53 am
Fly Amanita (12:53:08 AM):
That's fine.
Twin_A
Smash Champion
Thank you very much Fly and KK
Iron Dragon
Smash Lord
A nice option is to run off and bair them and they'll hit the side of the stage and if they dont tech you just grab the edge and they'll die. If they do tech you can jump immeadiately after the bair and slap them, it's pretty cool.
I would also usually say to grab the edge and fall back WITHOUT JUMPING and slap them. This works similarly to how bair does in that if they hit the stage and tech you can jump and BAIR LOL. So yeah, really useful stuff. If you learn to space the dsmash really well like Drephen does then you can do that too
Space fair on the tip of their shield, jump back with the fair though. This way if they try to WD oos after u land from the slap u should be able to shield or just run away from them. I also think spacing nair the same way works pretty decently, a combination of those comes in hand well. I'm also like 90% sure you can dtilt after you space fair and hit them and then proceed to separate them through that. Do use needles on platforms imo but also mix it up. The worst thing you can do in any matchup is be predictable but it's especially important in the case of ICs because their attacks are so powerful and do so much damage and with Sheik's somewhat floatyness you die really early.Alright my bad
Question:
IC's match up. Pretty tricky but not impossible.
I saw Plank plank Kyupuff at apex and time him out to win their pools match. Is playing defensive (not necessarily planking but just staying back) the way to go in this or would an aggressive playstyle also work?
This MU is also kind of annoying because it's one of the few where ftilt doesn't **** as much as the Sheik would like
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
I don't think nair is very good against ICs. On the topic of ftilt/dtilt, you only want to do it in the following cases:
- If ICs have just started a wavedash or an initial dash animation so that they can't CC it.
- If you just spaced an aerial into their shields and want to continue pressuring them, although I think jabs or more aerials are probably just as good for this purpose
-If Popo is at too high a percentage to CC it.
There are probably other cases I'm forgetting, but you really need to be careful about when you throw out tilts against ICs.
- If ICs have just started a wavedash or an initial dash animation so that they can't CC it.
- If you just spaced an aerial into their shields and want to continue pressuring them, although I think jabs or more aerials are probably just as good for this purpose
-If Popo is at too high a percentage to CC it.
There are probably other cases I'm forgetting, but you really need to be careful about when you throw out tilts against ICs.
GawdImFoxy
Smash Journeyman
That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure if her B-Air was like Falcon's B-Air. Not like a sex kick, but only a sweet spot and sour spot. Does this mean that Falcon's B-Air COULD, if slightly altered, be a sex PUNCH? Wtf, Falcon is sex incarnate.
Iron Dragon
Smash Lord
In the case of dtilt like I mentioned I meant it mainly for the 2nd point you just outlined, in which I thought of it like Falcon where you can continue pressure with jab, dtilt, or more fairs
.And yeah I wasn't thinking nair was that good but I wasn't completely sure. I have faced IC players before but I almost never use Sheik on them for the purpose of matchup hate aha.
This MU is stupid because there isn't really any videos Sheik players can watch to go off of =/
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Sheik's Bair has a sweetspot and a sourspot. The higher foot and lower foot respectively. Her move also behaves like a sex, kick, however. The move gets weaker the longer it stays out (to a point).
soap
Smash Hero
i always liked this vid. u see stuff that both works and does not work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE5YxKffCtQ