Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[SonuvaBeach]

Also, did you guys know that you can go completely horizontally up with Sheik's upb; then turn around? Try it out, it took me like 10 minutes to recreate what I did on accident. It's really ****ing useful/cool if you can do it perfectly consistent.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=272950

I think that is what you meant by horizontally up? haha. But yeah, just haven't gotton around to practicing it. Seems hard.

 

[SPAWN]

I meant to say vertically. I thought I had discovered that.... **** YOU AXE FOILED AGAIN!!!

Lol. I seriously found out about this like 2 weeks or so ago on my own. T_T


Also, yes, it is difficult.


I swear, if I had AR and my capture card worked properly... I would actually get stuff done lol.

 

[SPAWN]

i could never get that upb edgecancelling. I dont think ive ever done it once without wind

im interested to see this

yo spawn i also made that japes video. that **** was a classic lol. only like 100 people watched it tho

I was 1 of those 100 people xD.

Links to all your amazing tech skill videos, soap?

/looks through threads you've made anyways


Ugh, stupid opening two tabs at the same time of the same thread xD.

 

[ChivalRuse]

LOL. Get ***** by yourself, Spawn. <3

Yo, can somebody please link me to Soap's video? I love his needle trixies.

 

[soap]

just youtube "katzy687"

chival is your avatar zhang ziyi? I think it is, but i can never really tell with asians lol

 

[ChivalRuse]

just youtube "katzy687"

Ah. Okay.

chival is your avatar zhang ziyi? I think it is, but i can never really tell with asians lol

Yep. You're right.

 

[booshk]

hey juys. i'm a marth main so i'm a big sheik noob , but i use her to counterpick against ganon.
everyone always says you can chaingrab ganon 0-80 but at like 0 percent or a tiny few percents higher i can't get the regrab when they DI away. am i not supposed to dash and jc grab, am i supposed to do standing near 0 percent? if its not possible to regrab at very low percents, what is the percent u can regrab?
thanks guys
sorry if the question is ********!

 

[Kaffei]

hey juys. i'm a marth main so i'm a big sheik noob , but i use her to counterpick against ganon.
everyone always says you can chaingrab ganon 0-80 but at like 0 percent or a tiny few percents higher i can't get the regrab when they DI away. am i not supposed to dash and jc grab, am i supposed to do standing near 0 percent? if its not possible to regrab at very low percents, what is the percent u can regrab?
thanks guys
sorry if the question is ********!

try practice CGing a Lv 1 & Lv 9 ganon.

 

[soap]

watch out for ganon jumping out of your chaingrab with neutral DI

in that situation, utilt

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Or tipper upsmash for the kill if they do it at the wrong percent.

 

[TLMSheikant]

I got owned by a fox in the tournament yesterday. I normally can cope with fox by tech chasing and gimping him. But this fox was way too fast and was all over me. :/ He's our best fox here. Beat Taj and Alukard in pound 4. I really need to learn how to deal with more of fox's stuff. Like his nair, spaced bair, shine, drill, etc. I got 5th btw.

 

[Tope]

for cging always use running grab over jc grab

fox vs sheik is a losing matchup... the general strat is to play keep away and get him near the edge, but good foxes will realize this and camp you with lasers until you get close enough to unleash their tech on.

I WD back ftilt nair, roll away from spaced bair, and always try to smash out of the drill and shine.

Good luck.

 

[DJRome]

what's there to do about shine spikes from close recoveries when fox just knocked u off? when i play as fox it seems pretty safe to just go out and down b

 

[TLMSheikant]

Yeah, if I approach him he beats me with his incredible speed and pressure. If I camp the edge, he lasers me @_@. So hard lol. I too try to ftilt his nair. But I was trying to punish spaced bair I guess Ill just roll away from now on. And thanks for the good luck ^^.

 

[booshk]

that wasn't really what i was asking for :O
i'm basically asking if i do a standing grab or a dash jc grab when they DI away at around 0 %?
or is it not possible to regrab until a certain percentage?

 

[Tope]

it's pretty safe for fox to go out and try to gimp. sheik can either try and attack him or up+B early


It's pretty easy to camp and dodge lasers unless it's FD... otherwise just run around on platforms.


If ganon DIs away at 0 you have to run and grab, I usually don't start trying to cg him until around 20, just so there's less of a margin of error, but you can do it at 0

 

[nicaboy]

i got 5th yesterday i dont like brainstar vs fox anymore

here are some matches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjoonGjdtcw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU2oZxloJok

colbol beat me really bad on my own ****ing counter pick

So i decided to mm him after only playing on neutruals and did way better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFJfZsa12og

in tournament i lost to blea again and col bol.

but i beat linguini colbool apollo and cash mooney in mm's so at least i made some cash.
IM try and step it up at ceo cant wait to play tope and plank. Djrome you going bro?

 

[DJRome]

nez bra. im maaaaaad broke

 

[Teczer0]

Tope, do you let Ganon hit the floor if you dthrow at 0? And just tech chase for the next grab?

Cuz omg I do if you do I'd be like =D

 

[Spife]

Nica, sad to admit I haven't watched enough of your matches but it looked like you went hard argo, so is that your play style, or is that your strat vs peach? And does that work against other peaches or just Apollo (or only for that set even)?

 

[nicaboy]

Na niether one man. Im actualy a really camp happy sheik.

Apollo says he likes the match up but lacks sheik experiance. Im the only sheik really in Florida thats active.
The others play brawl lol namely seibrik and sheikssbm.

When I fight peach I just use needles(alot) spaced aerials alot of wd oos and make sure that when she is off stage to make sure i hit her as best I can. I dont know how well agro sheiks do against peaches but i know camping along with spaced aerials make it difficult for her.

 

[Kaffei]

How many frames does it take to WD oos?

 

[soap]

i'd imagine it would be jump + airdodge lag

so 3+10.

that's like 17 or something

 

[Kaffei]

dang lol. ok thx

 

[KirbyKaze]

hey juys. i'm a marth main so i'm a big sheik noob , but i use her to counterpick against ganon.
everyone always says you can chaingrab ganon 0-80 but at like 0 percent or a tiny few percents higher i can't get the regrab when they DI away. am i not supposed to dash and jc grab, am i supposed to do standing near 0 percent? if its not possible to regrab at very low percents, what is the percent u can regrab?
thanks guys
sorry if the question is ********!

You need them higher than 0. That's a misconception. It's like 4-7 or something for starting it. You can actually just tech chase him like Falcon for like 15% or so if he DIs away and then do it if it's troublesome to get it at 0-whatever. I've done that a few times.

If I'm practiced I can do it at like 10.

You can dash grab the whole time on away, standing/JC grab for everything else. If they're good at jumping out, just U-tilt > Uairs and then eventually Fair at some point.

 

[TLMSheikant]

I usually just let the ganon hit the floor and tech chase him. Then, after hes higher in percent I start CG him to gg . I adore both the falcon and ganon matchups, because its so one sided.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Actually Falcon Sheik is Sheik > Falcon, probably about 6-4 for us now.

 

[Mew2King]

it's pretty safe for fox to go out and try to gimp. sheik can either try and attack him or up+B early


It's pretty easy to camp and dodge lasers unless it's FD... otherwise just run around on platforms.


If ganon DIs away at 0 you have to run and grab, I usually don't start trying to cg him until around 20, just so there's less of a margin of error, but you can do it at 0

you can't chain grab ganon below like 10 or something if he DIs away I Think. I don't think 0 is possible? I usually don't start trying until like 15 or something. I forget exactly.

 

[Tope]

well maybe you can't do it at 0


and tec0 tope always tech chases... sometimes even with uthrow!!!!

 

[booshk]

thanks very much m2k, kk, and tope!

finally cleared up for me :D
btw i love u jason LOL

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

spawn u gotta teach me to ledge guard. ive gotten much better, but i want sleepyk to add me to the list of sheiks who dont let him come back once he goes off

 

[KirbyKaze]

Anti non-tech and you:

Shamelessly ripped from Magus. Simple strat that should be added to the front page (not that anyone will ever check it) is the duck nonsense.

I think we should discuss reaction-based answers to non-tech because non-tech + stick rolls is growing as a response to Sheik's tech chase.

Basically you duck in front of them if you're under 100% and they're
1) good at SDIing the Jab reset or SDI the Jab reset randomly
2) hit the percent where ASDI > Jab reset

You duck and CC the wakeup attacks and then anything else you dash grab or **** with ****** power. Standing grab, basically. This only works below 100% (ish) because you will be knocked over after that and you have to switch to different strategies. Fortunately, those are plentiful and include hitting them with moves that knock them over, standing as opposed to ducking (covered later), and awesome fantabulous ****. Because Jab Reset sometimes works anyway even though it shouldn't because people like to shield.

Second paragraph is most important. The whole thing is actually important though.

Why is shielding less consistent than crouch cancel? Could we get by with just shielding?

Dashing backwards out of crouch is difficult. Are there any tricks to it?

Dashing forward is easy though -- could immediately DDing to hit behind you work?

Alternative strats include tilts, D-smash, dash attack, and shielding the get-up attacks. The tilts are actually very underrated IMHO because they induce knockdown after a while (percentage based) and if they DI down they will simply ground themselves, whereas other directions will launch them. Sometimes into you. The premise of the rise in non-tech at low percents to escape tech chase is that you roll C-stick and do a bunch of control stick inputs to bulk up your likelihood of SDIing the jab while producing an immediate roll, wakeup, or attack (you can't produce attack with C-stick to my knowledge but we should note that it's a possible outcome -- they have an A button).

However, if we can just hit them, immediately, sometimes that kind of input can backfire. DIing up on a Sheik F-tilt accomplishes nothing except giving us another move. Unfortunately, our F-tilt only does 7% so it can be difficult to use in this manner, especially since it's such a good defense against these characters (Falcon, Falco, Fox). D-tilt also takes a while to cause knockdown. D-smash has very low combo potential, and while it's an easy solution I think we can do better.

I'm open to talk more about this, these are just my initial thoughts on the matter.

 

[nicaboy]

I hate reading techs in place. On fox and falco specifically. I can read left and right easy in place is hard for me.

 

[KirbyKaze]

That's because you have 14 more frames to hit tech rolls than tech stands. That's 40 frames to react versus 26. It's actually less for both of them when you actually get down to it because you have to wait and react to a difference in their tech animation, which has to register in your brain, and has to exist in the animation, but I don't have that information so yeah lol. Or you react to the screen shake, but again that involves waiting for the shake, which takes time.

 

[Lawrencelot]

Reaction time is about 0.2 seconds, so 12 frames in this game

 

[KirbyKaze]

So, assuming you can write it as [ Tech Time - 12 frames (for reaction) = Time to React ] you have a good amount of time to get tech stand (14 frames of animation remaining, so you have like 7 to hit them because if you miss they Shine to escape -- this can be rectified in other ways but ideally you hit them while they're still in their animation) and like 28 for the tech rolls (in terms of animation left remaining it's 28 -- you'd again have to input the grab before then, so really more like 20-21). That's quite a difference.

And then it's probably easier the faster your reaction time is.

Still, there's significant enough room for error that I think we can get this down and kill everyone. Maybe not PAL players, because of how far Fox goes, but definitely a possibility in NTSC.

 

[Tope]

ive been trying to do the immediate dash attack on missed techs, one of the few times that I'll use that move so it's typically fresh

 

[gm jack]

Recently I've been following their DI with a dash to crouch, and if they miss the tech, I tend to do a small WD back. That way, if they do a get up attack, I can grab afterwards. However, t does take good reactions and a boost grab to follow the roll away. I'll need to try out the CC then react properly.

Though at higher middle percents, if they miss, I often do a dash attack if they miss the tech. They either DI it down and the situation is reset with them on a higher percent, or they get knocked up for a couple of hits which often leads into a Fair to edgeguard.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I've done that one too. I find get-up attacks a sometimes gigantic (see: Falcon's two-side leg kick) but I think that spacing is a good idea at high percent.

Tope I've done the dash attack too. I find it is especially good on Falcon because if he doesn't DI away from your throw you can actually D-throw U-tilt him at any percent after like 10 even if he DIs behind you. But if he doesn't DI behind you it even works at like 0. So you can force him to be positioned for the dash attack just because of the nature of her throw game, which is dandy.

 

[Tope]

ooooo isn't that just delightful.... and shield get up attack is what i try for everytime... even if they roll i try to react with a WD oos and get em