***Sheik Community Walkthrough, Move #5: N Air, Sex Kick***

[Blistering Speed]

*sigh* This is why we need the frame data, we don't even know the effect crouching has, are we even sure it cuts down cooldown? What are the mechanics behind it? I knew it was in Melee, and I believe it worked from the time of pressing down on the control stick to it returning to neutral.

 

[East]

Is the only way to figure out frame data by soft modding your wii? If there are others, I am gladly willing to help.

 

[Voyeur]

we could postpone summaries of the Jabs and future moves and keep progression by talking about the next move you had in mind Blistering, until then we'll keep things on the back burner and you can save the info in word or notepad until then I guess.

 

[choknater]

IMO the best options after double jab are
1. grab
2. dtilt

grab obviously since it almost always connects

dtilt shield pokes and is the most wonderful setup ever for aerials, and since you're crouched low you usually don't get shield grabbed. it pushes the shield a little bit and has decent shield stun to prevent you from getting punished. that is if they DO block it

3. ftilt is good but i usually don't do it after jabs for some reason
4. charged needles, but they're usually blocked

double jab is the best way to bait shields

single jab is alright if you wanna jab cancel it, but it has pretty much the same role. single jab is much better for shield pressure

 

[Zankoku]

ftilt is harder than dtilt to follow up from double jab, because part of the motion for dtilt involves jab canceling anyway. It is, however, a way better idea when at the correct % for a lock.

 

[<π]

dtilt is actually a really good move over all, yeah it shield pokes, but it's hit box is abnormally high; higher than you are, meaning a lot of the time you can hit through your oppenents aerials and like chok said it lets you follow up with your own aerials.

we need to switch moves.

 

[choknater]

ankoku good point on the lock. i don't ftilt lock nearly as much as i should, i could probably win matches in a gayer way than i already do

i play a lot of floaties but i guess it kinda gives me bad habits when i decide not to tilt lock heavier chars/fast fallers

 

[Blistering Speed]

Woah, forget all about this thread.

The OP's updated finally and there is now a Pending Testing section.

Move #2 is D Tilt.

Discuss...

 

[Zankoku]

dtilt is mediocre.

Has good range and ducks under things. Doesn't really set up for much and has lots of cooldown. Not very quick startup either.

Really easy to use out of jab cancel because you can buffer crouching A.

 

[Villi]

Dtilt works well with ftilts against some characters who can nair or dolphin slash out of an attempted lock. If they're trying to do an aerial while you're ftilting them, they'll miss and sometimes fall on top of your dtilt... otherwise you can take advantage of their lag and do more ftilts. If they dolphin slash, you duck under that, too, and can take advantage with more ftilts.

Dtilt is also a trap I guess. The foot sends at a vertical trajectory, and if you time dtilts to hit them before they land, it will keep them juggled. The only way I've seen this escaped is with a double jump, so if they don't think of it, it's free damage. You could probably predict and fair them the next time to send them off stage without a double jump.

 

[<π]

dtilt isn't slow at all, but compared to ftilt it's hit box is obviously lacking. It's good to punish poorly timed or more lateral aerials (jiggs falling fair, wolf's bair I think) the hit box is actually pretty high up.

It doesn't set up for follow true ups even at low percents, but it's a good "get off me" when you don't have an answer that will win priority wise.

 

[SinkingHigher]

My least used move after d-air. It's got a few uses, though.

1. Countering upward attacks that you can't get too close to (f-tilt works better here though)

2. Proping up people for f-airs and n-airs and such.

3. The occasional edgeguard. Chain and b-air stagespike works better here, though.

Basically there's always another move better suited for every situation. It seems to be inescapable after f-tilt locks on larger characters. Once again, though, u-tilt > d-tilt.

 

[Thee Incubus]

Yes, the Uptilt seems to be better in any situation you could possibly use the Dtilt, but I do like how the Dtilt pops the opponent right into perfect Fair position. I don't use it too much, only to sometimes mix up my Ftilt, jab, grab, Utilt game and keep them guessing.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Anyone happen to know if her thigh has spikish properties? I highly doubt it, and I've never seen it, but just checking. Her u-tilt thigh has spike capabilities, and not as much knockback as her foot with f-tilt, so...

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Dtilt locks are possible when the conditions are just right. Dtilt hitbox at the foot is abnormally large, giving it some uses as a pseudo-disjointed move. You can also crawl backwards with this move and slide, giving it a minor form of spacing.

Case is point, if dtilt doesn't hit the target it just ends in tears thanks to its lag.

 

[stealth3654]

You can crouch under DDD's Bair. So from there, you can use Dtilt.

 

[<π]

dtlilt isn't too bad of a move on connect a good anti aerial. and also keep inmind the more you vary the moves you use the higher your damage output.

 

[rinoH]

i usually use ditlt after a jab or ftilt

 

[legion598]

so this is a shiek only guide and leaves that fatty zelda out of it right? if so I would like to congratulate you
as for the discussion
I never use jab or Dtilt : (
my move list consists entirely of Fair, Bair, Nair, Dsmash, Usmash, DACUS, Ftilt, and grabs I cant seem to find a use for jab or Dtilt that isnt already taken by another move although crawling in conjuntion with Dtilt seems quite useful against maybe Falco and DDD
I think my best strat is poking with Bairs and spacing Fairs and comboing Fairs into tilt locks and then chasing appropriately with Nairs, Fairs and more Ftilts

 

[FrozenFire13]

Well there are those that like the Dtilt for Fair follow up possibilities, but then there are those that say you can't TRULY follow up because they have time to dodge or counter. Well then instead of following up with the Fair all the time (like they will most likely expect) follow up, but try and bait the airdodge out of them for free damage. Baiting airdodges is too fun of a mindgame lol.

 

[DarkThundah]

The single jab comes out frame 2, making it the fastest ground option in the game and coming out the same frame as a shield.

I am pretty certain that zss's A jab comes out at frame 1, which would mean that sheiks is the second fastest in the game. But I could be wrong...I suppose

 

[Blistering Speed]

No, you're completely correct, thanks, I'll edit the post.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

I think Squirtle's jab comes out in one frame too.

Anyway, Dtilt.

Admittingly, I'm not an avid user of it. Granted it is one of the only moves you can do when crouching/crawling, so it has some use in that sense if you want to stay low to the ground, but I don't find the hitbox to be fantastic when I can simply Ftilt. The semi-disjoint of the Dtilt isn't really all much of a positive when Dtilt doesn't have good ending speed and you can buff well after it.

Compared to other characters, Sheik has at best, an average Dtilt. It's not extremely disjointed like Bowsers, and it's not as long range as say Peach,. It doesn't have a reliable property to it like Zelda's trip or a spike, but it's not too bad either since you can easily combo it into one of Sheik's aerials.

6.3/10

 

[FrozenFire13]

Compared to other characters, Sheik has at best, an average Dtilt. It's not extremely disjointed like Bowsers, and it's not as long range as say Peach,. It doesn't have a reliable property to it like Zelda's trip or a spike, but it's not too bad either since you can easily combo it into one of Sheik's aerials.

6.3/10

Awww just 6.3? What a hardass. I would have at given it a 6.7, but maybe I'm too gracious, lawl.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Awww just 6.3? What a hardass. I would have at given it a 6.7, but maybe I'm too gracious, lawl.

I'm a hard grader actually. Moves hardly get up to the high 8 points for me. Then again, moves hardly get below 5 so it's inbetween like 5 and 9 most of the time.

 

[FrozenFire13]

I'm a hard grader actually. Moves hardly get up to the high 8 points for me. Then again, moves hardly get below 5 so it's inbetween like 5 and 9 most of the time.

I was just given ya crap, lol. I don't ever actually use the dtilt, ha.

 

[<π]

sheik lacks priority in ftilt, dtilt's hit box differs in that it allows you to hit opponents that are already attacking when ftilt can't.

 

[choknater]

Just use dtilt when it needs to be used... gosh lol.

(Usually after jabs or when it's spaced perfectly against someone's shield)

 

[stealth3654]

This thread should be stickied

 

[Voyeur]

it doesn't need to be technically and under Blistering's own view, an active good thread will stay at the top and I have it under my index sticky and I usually go in and post to bump threads I feel are important to keep them going when they're not getting a lot of use.

 

[stealth3654]

I think we should change moves...

 

[saviorslegacy]

Here are my uses of the D-Tilt:


When a Foe is at 0 or a very low % I will do either a jab or a F-Tilt. Then I will follow up with D-Tilit, into another F-Tilt, a jab or two, another F-Tilt, D-Tilt and then I will F-Tilt lock them. (BTW... all jabs are canceled.)

I will also jab, D-Tilt into an airiel at high %'s.

Then again... F-Tilt, D-Tilt, Fair and repeat is fun. (If the foe doesn't see it coming.)



Basically... this move sucks on it's own and IMO is only good when mixed into other moves.

6.8/10 IMO (cuz I use it a lot for combo's lol)

 

[Blistering Speed]

I'll update tomorrow after my driving test. Also, rating moves with a numerical value isn't useful or practical. Smash has too many varying situations to simply denote a move to a number.

 

[stealth3654]

I don't mean to sound rude or impatient, but could we please change moves to liven up the Sheik boards a little?

 

[Blistering Speed]

No problem.

Move #3 is U Tilt.

Discuss...

Fun fact, Marth can DS out between the two hits. Anyone know how big the frame window between hitstun and the second hit is? If it's larger then one frame then a significant number of characters will be able to escape it in comparison to the only two that can do it at the moment.

 

[Zankoku]

It's like a mini-Snake utilt. It hurts, has deceptively good "priority," and is somewhat usable as a faux reversal.

 

[East]

What exactly do you mean when you say "Faux reversal"?

 

[RyokoYaksa]

It has failed to double hit more times than I like to remember. Aside from tagging an opponent who happens to be in its optimal, double hitting range, I'd rather go with something else when ending an ftilt string.

Also, you score major respect points from me if you can do this move IRL.

 

[Zankoku]

Reversals traditionally have invulnerability frames (Ryu's Shoryuken, Balrog's little... whatever he does to quickleap forward, Bowser Fortress, Marth's Dolphin Slash) that allow you to cut straight through an attack and beat it with your own. Sheik's utilt doesn't have invulnerability frames, but you can pretend like it does and use it for the same situations and it'll work occasionally.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Utilt is quite good. It has the vertical hitbox of the usmash, if not just a tad more. It can double hit when it is optimal respectively to range and DI, doesn't decent damage, comes out rather quickly, and sends opponents away far enough so that you can't really be punished unless they shield and OoS. Unfortunately, it's also rather easy to punish at the same time because the intervals between the first and second hit is rather long for a single move, and can easily be perfect shielded to OoS. It's not the best option to go though since rarely you find yourself in a situation to use it when you can risk for a tipper Usmash or grab from a Ftilt lock.

In comparison to other characters, Sheik's Utilt is good, unfortunately, so is everyone else's. It doesn't have the range of Marth's utilt, the crazy power like Zelda's, nor does it have the crazy disjointed hitbox like Peach or Snake's. However, it still is useful when the situation calls for it, and if you need to refresh some of your more used moves.

6.8/10

@ Blistering: I don't know, I like attaching a number to moves since I tend to compare a move with other characters instead of Sheik's moveset. It gives me a sense when comparing one Utilt to another.