Official Seizon Senryaku: Marth General

[Shaya]

Fair and nair don't kill anymore in this.

Forward smash tipper is definitely buffed from Brawl.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I was initially a bit let down with Marth but I've adapted and now he feels pretty great to use. It was quite an adjustment but he feels so smooth.

 

[Xeylir]

The transition isn't nearly as bad as I feared, either. Loss of SH fair sucks but isn't the end of the world. I'm not really seeing a range nerf (actually the majority of my spacing errors have been me getting too close for a tipper rather than whiffing it), and while dair doesn't spike as easily, I'm willing to give that up for much safer offstage use without risk of self-destructing.

Dthrow now sending the opponent up still gets me, though. I'm still used to it being "viable bthrow." >_>

 

[feardragon64]

Fair and nair don't kill anymore in this.

Forward smash tipper is definitely buffed from Brawl.

I've been struggling a bit against faster characters in getting kills. I feel like I'm mainly relying on tipper bairs as a kill move or gimps. On other characters, tipper fsmash works well if you can land it.

Also counter hits a hell of a lot harder in this game. Has anyone else noticed that? I've gotten a suprising number of K.O.'s off of counters of smashes.

 

[Shaya]

http://www.twitch.tv/hiyashaya

streaming again, this time with marth custom specials mostly :D

 

[Emblem Lord]

Did a round robin tourney yesterday. NJ has gotten stronger in my absence. I think I took 5th? EVERYONE had customs on except me lololol. I gotta jump on that custom train. I will say this though. The mentality of higher level players that actually understand the game is way different. juice.doom and I were talking about Marth and without me even saying anything he basically said what I have been saying about Marth. Marth and by extension Lucina are about slowing the game down to their pace and forcing reactions and punishing. He also agreed that latency on 3DS hurts them alot. The verbage that he used...my goodness it was so refreshing. idk i respect anyone that has strong fighting game knowledge and vernacular and can apply that to smash.

I also lost to a few players I used to WRECK in Brawl/Melee, but I'm happy the young ones that once looked up to me have gotten stronger. Its a warm feeling.

 

[LordShade67]

Well, after playing some For Glory matches(Yes I know. Online, Lag, etc.), it has become clear that I've forgotten virtually everything about keepaway(Samus and ROB in my case), and I don't know **** about FIGHTING Greninja. I've got vids of virtually all my matches coming up, since I'm making it a point to save replays, wins or losses, so I can see where I effed up.

 

[Xeylir]

Also counter hits a hell of a lot harder in this game. Has anyone else noticed that? I've gotten a suprising number of K.O.'s off of counters of smashes.

It definitely hits a lot harder now, yeah. I've gotten some pretty good KOs with it so far--a guy in my last FG match started charging an fsmash way, way too early while I was recovering, so I fastfell into it and countered for a free KO. Feels pretty nice. I'm a little worried about relying on it too much, though.

 

[Zano]

someone tell me how I have a near perfect connection playing wifi sometimes but every 5 seconds on local play it freezes.

 

[Remzi]

Anyone know which has more shield pushback, tipper nair, or tipper fair? The landing lag difference is only 4 frames (in favor of nair), so shield pushback may be the bigger factor in terms of safety on fastfall. I've noticed that as a whole, grab range has been nerfed- so with any decent pushback, both of these moves could be safe on block against a lot of characters (if spaced well).

 

[Xinc]

Tipper is definitely more rewarding, but it looks like grabs got nerfed again? Thoughts?

 

[pants name guy]

I've gotten quite a few shield breaks online, if anyone else wanted to go into that move. I also feel like the counter hitbox misses a lot compared to other counters.

 

[LordShade67]

I've gotten quite a few shield breaks online, if anyone else wanted to go into that move. I also feel like the counter hitbox misses a lot compared to other counters.

I don't know. I swear I countered a Toon Link Dair successfully, and it couldn't hit in Brawl.

 

[pants name guy]

I don't know. I swear I countered a Toon Link Dair successfully, and it couldn't hit in Brawl.

I think it hits mostly above him now, so you can't counter grounded moves as easily from the air.

 

[Reizilla]

Is it just me or do Marth and Lucina have a lot of holes on the inside of their hitboxes?

 

[Zano]

I know marth does, just ask shaya

 

[Shaya]

Yeah there's definitely some. I'm not sure of what moves in particular, stuff like neutral air doesn't have body hitboxes anymore at least.

 

[Emblem Lord]

To be honest, they really just made his hitboxes..make sense. Alot of characters got these changes. Its a nerf for sure. But it just means you cant just swing your sword. You actually need to space and know your ranges and options at all times.

 

[Zano]

but it's hard to know your spaces when your actual weapons just go through them.

 

[Reizilla]

It's the anti-brawl...

Up tilt seems to be the one that whiffs most when it wouldn't before. This'll take a lot of getting used to for me. Or maybe I'll just main Lucario.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Do whats best for you bro

 

[TL?]

What do you guys think about marth compared to lucina? At this point I really feel like marth is better. Both of them rely on up smash and side smash for KOs. Marth's sourspot on these moves still kill and only a little later than lucina does with them. Meanwhile his sweetspot kill much earlier, and as player skill goes up you'll be able to land those more often. A lot of what they do is very comparable such as their spacing game, reach, throw game, recovery. But I feel like marth has a distinct advantage when it comes to KO potential. Is there anything I'm overlooking with lucina?

 

[Revan Skywalker]

@TL
I agree with your reasoning, I like both, but Marth just seems better because of the reasons you mentioned.

When I first played Marth I really hated him for not having SHFF Fair and his double Fair. I lost a lot of matches and just sucked, so I thought about switching my main, but EmblemLord gave me some new hope
Guess he's right, you just have to adapt. The more I play Marth the more I think he is amazing. Even with lag and ****ty controls (that give me a lot of trouble) I'm doing pretty good now. Shield Breaker is phenomenal, even the standard one (wish Dash Breaker was legal in for glory). I broke so many shields by catching people offguard.
However, you really need to focus. It's hard so stay patient and to keep your focus at times, but it's definately rewarding.

 

[Emblem Lord]

My first tourney I was breaking shields left and right and I wasnt even doing actual set-ups. I was just doing it in response to my opponents blocking or using it to poke. Its really good.

Marth IS mid tier. He DID lose options but his overall match-up spread is solid. What hurts him is that all his bad matches are vs high/top tier characters. But more testing when Wii-u version drops is needed. I think Diddy is the worst then maybe Greninja, Sheik and little mac but Sonic, ZSS and some of the others seem much closer.

This is without customs btw. With customs on Marth those matches get way closer and are probably even. Little mac probably turns into Marths favor.

 

[Reizilla]

Neutral B 3 is the best. It's like wow, so this is what a lingering/moving hitbox feels like.

 

[Foodies]

Question for those who have tested custom moves: Does regular counter or Iai counter have more knockback? I tried testing it in training mode, but it's hard when you can't control the CPU.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Might as well introduce myself here while I hoard everyone's information to be the bestest Hero King possible. Hello, my name is Azure J and I'm addicted to tiaras and handing out tips like I'm a Super Guide. I've been playing this character forever now (2001 - present) in every Smash available simply because he was the best sword in Melee and I naturally gravitated to the combination of movement, spacing and reads the character thrived on. (Still want me a samurai though.) Coming from a Project M background specifically it's been kinda hard to deal with 4 Marth but as both a character loyalist and someone who likes to rise to the challenge, I'd like to try and stick around watching this meta develop and maybe contributing to it if possible. Haven't played in a competitive environment but I go hard when I play at home.

With the intro out of the way, I'd like to ask how other long time Marths have adapted to this game so far. What are the dos and donts?

 

[Foodies]

Nevermind, I got a friend to test it and Iai counter has more knockback.

Hi Azure Don't try to short hop double aerial in the game, it won't work. Do use shieldbreaker more because it's more useful compared to Brawl. There's a looot more but that's just 2 quick things.

 

[Tenryuga]

What are opinions on storm thrust? Currently I run it, Dancing blade 1, dolphin jump and Iai counter. I use this setup because I find I like to be very aggressive with my edgeguarding. Dolphin jump allows me to take more risks due to the height and Iai counter can net kills on someone that's trying to edgeguard me. Even if it doesn't kill it puts me in a position to reverse the momentum by allowing me a chance to edgeguard the opponent if they havent been killed by it.

 

[InfinityCollision]

assault dash assault dash assault dash assault dash assault dash

Seriously, just try it. Totally opens up Marth's midrange and approach game. I was riding the Storm Thrust bandwagon hard leading up to release but it ended up not being as good as I'd hoped (windbox doesn't push against shields) while Assault Dash is a significant improvement to Marth's kit.

Iai Counter has an interesting concept, but the window is very unforgiving and it's less powerful than the standard Counter. I can see the appeal but I've stuck to the default option there.

 

[Zano]

Tried marth for the first time, it was k. More to come someday

 

[Reizilla]

Do: Switch to Lucina

Don't: Win T_T

 

[ClickDecision]

Yo so who can fill me in on how we deal with projectiles in general? I've tried power shielding and I don't think it's in the game...right? I dunno I feel like there's something I probably don't know about that would make my life a bit easier. So hey if there is.. then any input would be great

 

[Zano]

I'll just drop both for Robin, I'll be with you soon Raziek

 

[InfinityCollision]

Yo so who can fill me in on how we deal with projectiles in general? I've tried power shielding and I don't think it's in the game...right? I dunno I feel like there's something I probably don't know about that would make my life a bit easier. So hey if there is.. then any input would be great

Power shielding is in, but works like it did in Brawl. Shield/clank/jump, the usual options apply. If you're close enough you can jump or powershield into Assault Dash to pressure them in response, just don't get too happy with that option lest they start baiting it out.

Do: Switch to Lucina

Don't: Win T_T

Dunno, I've done fine with both (Lucina online, Marth off). The local salt factories are rapidly approaching full production.

 

[ClickDecision]

Power shielding is in, but works like it did in Brawl. Shield/clank/jump, the usual options apply. If you're close enough you can jump or powershield into Assault Dash to pressure them in response, just don't get too happy with that option lest they start baiting it out.

I'm unfamiliar, how did it work in brawl?

 

[Rad]

So does Ganondorf beat Marth now?

 

[Zano]

everyone beats marth

 

[Emblem Lord]

ummm..no? Are you insane?

 

[Rad]

Just terrible. Seems pretty similar to DK