scene future

[SwiftBass]

In the future I'd love to see. I really hope someone agrees with me with some of this stuff.



--3 stocks instead of 4 stocks in melee--
too long.....but i know thats a HUGE stretch in the minds of some.(theres a theme of time and efficiency in this post and there are other ways to be more efficient time wise as well). This is just a hug preference thing with me and I have been advocating this EVEN in friendlies (where there arent lots of setups) and when theres MAD ppl at a major and pools are taking hella long. I guess ima have to create a major of my own.



--the usage of AV to VGA converters for LCD monitor setups--
EDIT:
this plan is kind of a bust. still looking into things but its very unlikely.

No they don'tn lag. Theres no digital conversion with the properties of the TV like HD/plasma. The conversion is within the wiring and the ground cables. I would really LOVE to see this. The converters are hella cheap. ppl bringing old monitors and thin LCD's lying around would boost the setup count at majors. I don't know about everyone else, but I have a few monitors lying around(some CRT and some LCD) and Im likely gonna bring the LCD's i have to majors. you can still pack ur huge TV but hey why not pack a few LCD's too. Or just take full advantage of the weight/mass ratio of LCD's and bring tons of them!

swift

idk if anyone mentiioned it yet

but i think if you used RCA/VGA adapters, you'd need to also get RCA/stereo adapters with speakers ifyou wanna play with sound.

its not a big issue, but its worth putting in the op

--The elimination of regional crews and other side events--

they are almost always more hyped on boards more than in person. They almost NEVER start, are not finished, and/or having missing players who left early. I feel like majors should work on perfecting the bare-bone stuff in smash like running singles and doubles in 1.5 days(especially with 300 man turnouts) b4 trying to provide everyone with all the this extra content(lol see what I did ther?)



--little more analytical commentary--

to each is own...but like i think we'd be taken more srsly with a great analytical system of commentating. That doesn't mean "no swearing" but like having only certain ppl do it at majors. I like husband and wife a lot but I feel like more current members should be able to commentate well too. We shouldn't have to fall back on vets for something that some of the more current ppl can do too. Not bashing husband and wife just saying we cant bring them to every tourney and we shouldn't cop out and fall back on them.





--Brawl and Melee separated--

not for spiteful reasons though. Running both events just takes too much time. Pound4(melee majority) had brawl start up day 2 and it drag into another day.....3 days for a tourney is not efficient for anyone with school/job/religious obligations. (luckily it was MLK weekend but like is it really THAT reliable to try to plan all majors around a holiday?)

also regardless of what you think, brawl vs melee animosity is still present and it DEF affects players outlooks on tourneys feat. both games. Pound4 got lots of melee hype and brawl def was missing some participants(still a good turnout tho being in melee's shadow on boards and during the event). Same thing happened with genesis. At the first APEX it happened backwards. It was run hella good but like lots of melee players didn't show. My main reason is def influenced by time constrictions and I'll stand by that for ever, cuz there will always be life outside of smash.


discuss tiem?

 

[JPOBS]

everything seems great and i agree except with the 4 stocks being changed to 3 stocks.

Im all for making 3 stocks for the purpose of saving time in pools, and on a tv of rotation friendlies, 3 stocks is fine too but it doesnt have to be standard.
all bracket matches should be 4 stocks always.

 

[Nintendude]

3 stock pools is actually a really great idea, especially for smaller tournaments.

 

[LLDL]

3 stocks isn't enough. The 4th stock can be the beginning someone's momentum. A lot of **** matches are only 1 minutes 50 seconds to 2 minutes. 4 stocks is fine imo. People just camp too much because they're nervous.

 

[SwiftBass]

why is the 4th stock so special? what makes it that much diff than the 3rd?

 

[pockyD]

why is the 4th stock so special? what makes it that much diff than the 3rd?

it's the way it affects the other stocks

why is the 3rd stock any more important than the 2nd? why not just have one-stock matches?

--the usage of AV to VGA converters for LCD monitor setups--

No they don'tn lag. Theres no digital conversion with the properties of the TV like HD/plasma. The conversion is within the wiring and the ground cables. I would really LOVE to see this. The converters are hella cheap. ppl bringing old monitors and thin LCD's lying around would boost the setup count at majors. I don't know about everyone else, but I have a few monitors lying around(some CRT and some LCD) and Im likely gonna bring the LCD's i have to majors. you can still pack ur huge TV but hey why not pack a few LCD's too. Or just take full advantage of the weight/mass ratio of LCD's and bring tons of them!

is this real?

i'd like some documentation but this sounds awesome since CRT TVs are going waaaay out of fashion

 

[S l o X]

I like the idea of 3 stocks over 4 but not in brackets.

In majors where pools take a long time to finish, this seems like the perfect idea.
In small tourneys on the other hand, where there will be more than enough time to finish up the tourney, I'm sure people would prefer four > three. Three should just be standardized in major's pools.

I've always felt the commentary in the last year or so has been going downhill. I learn things from matches that were commentated two+ years ago but if I look at any match today, chances are I'm learning the players name and not the matchup. This goes for EC and WC commentary (EC needs to step up it's commentary game).

I don't know where I stand on the Brawl / Melee separation. @ Pound 4, it brought many spectators and I even played people who came for Brawl saying they wanted to learn Melee. I guess your point makes sense since I left but I didn't miss out on anything besides US vs EU which was nbd for me. The Brawl players also help bring setups so that contributes to help run the tourney faster, whether it be D1/2/3. I have no real ground on this one, mostly because I have no experience @ majors outside of Pound 4. (first tourney)

That being said I can't bring up past experiences for side events. If it's a national, side events definitely shouldn't occur. Regionals? Depends on the size. Weeklies? I don't see a problem with these.

 

[SwiftBass]

it's the way it affects the other stocks

why is the 3rd stock any more important than the 2nd? why not just have one-stock matches?



is this real?

i'd like some documentation but this sounds awesome since CRT TVs are going waaaay out of fashion

I've seen the wires on two occasions, one was years ago with marvel and the other with SSf4 recently. I've seen the av to vga on a CRT monitor used at a marvel tourney. That game is fast as hell and I would imagine that around the time that I saw it that they took marvel pretty srsly. I assumed that it was a PC version of the game but around that time(junior year college i think) there was no DC emulation that ran marvel more than 20fps.)

I've seen the microsoft AV to vga converters with the 360 logos and **** used on LCD's at a CT ssf4 tourney. I played on that TV then played on a HDTV that was considerably larger and a diff brand(these probly/most likely are factors too). The HDTV lagged(even with the component cables). I have a HDTV with an HDMI wire and it comes off as lagless. Its a shame that I am not versed in ssf4 as i am in smash to make some sort of analogy but from my experience I had yet to feel lag with HDMI...thats kinda off subject since gamecube HMDI doesnt exist.....i dun think WII HMDI exist either.



Cort also has told me tales of mofo having a setup with a AV-VGA converter. Cort/mofo posting about that **** right now would be god-like. . I dun doubt that it will be a success at all. In theory it seems good.

it's the way it affects the other stocks

why is the 3rd stock any more important than the 2nd? why not just have one-stock matches?

I mean yeah why not have 2 stock matches? I feel like the only significant game changing modification would be having 1 stock since it is ONE SOLITARY CHANCE. When you pass 1 tho, you have are just working with multiples. I feel like theres some invisible threshold passed when you go past one stock. On the other side of the coin(which I do NOT advocate at all) why not go with 5 or 6? I feel that it'll feel diff from the start, but it all be the same in time as long as you have a beginning stock separate from the ending stock. you will still have multiple chances as opposed to one chance. I feel like a change from 10 stocks to 2 stocks would be more of a significant dilemma than changing from 4 to 3. I kind of see it as wagering time to prove that you are the better player in that particular game.


I think that the only important stocks are the first and the last. They to me hold more significance in a match because they give you outcomes. The first is the existence of a match. The last is the end of the match. I dun think of it as the 4th stock...i think of it as the last one.





3 stocks in pools is something i want to PUSH HARD FOR!. majors run hella long and just seeing the other fighting communities finish in 1.5 days(with like 500 entrants) makes me aspire to be more efficient and either:

get more out of the time at majors

---or---

not have to run them as long(saving ppl money in hindsight and appealing to a wider scope of players with obligations, cuz we arent getting any younger)


edit: ima typo machine

 

[SwiftBass]

sry to whoever read the first draft of the latter.

 

[pockyD]

1-stock bo9 with each stage being played once

 

[SwiftBass]

lolwut

is that your dream format?

seems pretty

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

1-stock bo9 with each stage being played once

Naw, first person who gets to 50% can counterpick another stage duhhh

 

[pockyD]

lolwut

is that your dream format?

seems pretty [fair?]

not really, i like the ruleset we have now, though i could be convinced to favor 3-stock bo5 if someone ever gave it a shot

i'm just sayin' that the whole "ONE CHANCE" thing with one stock matters a lot less if you're playing more games in a set

 

[SwiftBass]

not really, i like the ruleset we have now, though i could be convinced to favor 3-stock bo5 if someone ever gave it a shot

i'm just sayin' that the whole "ONE CHANCE" thing with one stock matters a lot less if you're playing more games in a set

agreed.

kinda like checks n balances but its goes against my purpose. what do we accomplish time wise if instead of 4 stocks bo3 we have like 2 stocks bo7?(i tried two pick to formats that would appear to have roughly the same duration to illustrate a point.)


I mean if I wanted to save time and not effect the stocks would I make a best of 1? I mean I feel like its obvi that 3 stocks bo3 is more traditional and will go easier with the community than the idea of a bo1 with 4 stocks. we used to be at 5 stocks way back in the day and japanese used to play with 3 stocks. stocks appear to be more expendable.

 

[Nintendude]

We should try 3-stock pools at No Johns.

 

[UltimaScout]

We should try 3-stock pools at No Johns.

Agreed. I have been to multiple events where pools was 3 stocks.

Swift in regards to your statement about what's so special about it... (4th stock)

Matches with 3 stocks or less can be 100% decided from a suicide or 1 screw up. Where if you have a 4th stock you can typically overcome such a disadvantage.

It's one of those things, kinda like "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".

Basically gives people a get out of jail free card having 4 stocks, but don't mess up again or you can't recover from it unless you're really that much better.

Namsayin'?

 

[AvaricePanda]

I don't see how changing the stock count from 4 to 3 would make matches run faster, especially in Melee where camping isn't nearly as prevalent.

In theory it cuts a few minutes in actual sets, but
1) You shouldn't be planning your tournament for matches to only last 3 minutes, that's just bad organization.

2) Cutting a few minutes in sets may not make a difference in the long run if a tournament's still run in a way that would allow for it to run overtime. Basically, if the organization's already loose, people aren't getting kicked off TVs for friendlies, the gap between doubles and singles is huge, tournament starts 2 hours late, not enough set-ups, etc, cutting the matches to 3 stocks won't save it from running overtime. Conversely if you don't do all of those bad things, the tournament should run on time regardless of 3 or 4 stocks.

Plus, Melee's been played with 4 stocks for like 9 years IIRC, so a change like that just to help TOs run on-time — which they should be doing anyway — seems drastic.

tl;dr: Keep matches 4 stocks.

I agree with everything else, but I'm iffy on the Brawl/Melee thing. Sometimes I think they should be seperated, other times I don't know. At any rate, I don't think there should be B/M regional level tournaments; those seem like they would just be more stressful. Pound4 seemed very successful but it was held during a 3 day weekend; Genesis Brawl went overtime and APEX Melee was largely overshadowed.

 

[Alukard]

nah 4 stocks is fine ... but what i'm really interested is in the LCD stuff ...


anyway ... i like this thread. I was actually thinking about making one like this. Although it was going to touch the subject of losing interest and how to gain it or how to keep every monthly at a steady 35+ because seriously we just hit confirmed like 60+ at no johns. It should at least be able to always be at 35+ if we can get that many without reaching out too too far u know.

but good stuff swift ... if people take this game more seriously ... i'm pretty sure we would have a much better scene OVERALL. Especially more upsets which imo is what keeps this game sooo good ... because people keep getting better ... but dont get to always attend. anyway i can go on forever LOL ... good stuff!

 

[DJ Nintendo]

You want commentary? I got everyone on that. Hopefully it doesn't keep getting corrupted lol.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Id like to know about the LCD stuff if anybody finds something out.

Ive seen the original GC use the digital out to hook up using vga, but you had to make the adapter.

But are you talking about something like a converter box that you plug your AVs into and then plug the box into an LCD. Or something else?

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Gonna say real quick that I found not 1, not 2, not even 3, but 4 CRT TV's on my street THIS WEEK, waiting to be thrown away. I picked up all of 'em.
I think CRT's are the cheap option right now and money isn't exactly flowing through the smash community. That's not a place I can base an argument from but hey i'm just sayin'.

If there's a 3 stock tournament I'll play 3 stocks, but I think in a 4 stock mentality, I guess. I can't die once and think "OK, time to bring it back".

@commentary: Agreed, fully. I've been waiting forever to hear sort of a 50's baseball commentary style applied to smash.

 

[Eggm]

3 stocks are fine for pools, but for regular matches its not enough. You need time to warm up and read your opponent. LCD"s might not technically "lag" they are still inferior tho. The way the screen updates during the game is wayy different and more stressful on the eyes if i'm going to be playing for 10 hours at a tournament. I would personally quit if LCD's became the standard. Its not fitting for professional gaming (See starcraft). I can't look at a LCD screen intensely like reading for something for more than an hour without getting a headache. Watching football in HD or a DVD is fine or whatever. But having to look at it intensely and concentrate I can't do it. CRT's have better color and are brighter and just more pronounced. They also don't get that weird interlacing type feeling of lag when the screen is struggling to update with melee's ridiculous speed. I have personally found 11 CRT tv's in the garbage just like irish mafia said they are like 5$ or free on craigslist too. Yeah they take up more space but IMO is worth it. Also if some one were to steal and LCD your out a lot of money and they are pretty easy to slip into a big back pack or bag. Or just walk out with it. CRT's have like 0 incentive to steal you gotta carry a huge thing and they are basically worthless (price wise). And if some one does steal one your out like 5$ LOL. Everything else you posted I"m cool with I guess.

Edit : If certain people are ok with LCD's for friendlies that would be fine wth me, but if I were forced to play on it as oppose to a CRT in a tournament match I'd forfeit and just leave.

 

[omgwtfToph]

I can't look at a LCD screen intensely like reading for something for more than an hour without getting a headache.

idk that sounds like a personal problem

i play faster games than melee for hours at a time on LCDs lol

trust me, it's not that bad

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I agree with almost everything.

I disagree intensely about crews though. I've always viewed Smash as a 3 event game (singles, doubles, crews). Some of Smash's best moments are from crews...if we start getting rid of them, we'll never have those moments again. Back in the day, crews were held on the last day not because they are easily cancellable (like they are now) but because they were the grand finale. So many tournaments, particularly old school ones, have crews as their most memorable event...

Its a shame what has happened to crews over the years. Its the most watchable form of Smash.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

I think LCD's should be tournament legal but if a player objects to it then the match can be moved to a CRT

 

[EPsilon933]

We don't need games cut down to 3 stocks. Our game isn't 95% camp, 4% attack, 1% trip. Why can't we all just enjoy the tournament instead of rushing it? People with a car and extra room in their car should bring a set up to help run the tournament.

 

[KAOSTAR]

If there is nothing wrong with LCD's then you shouldnt be able to object to it. You should get a preference.

You are prob only concentrating for around 8-10 minutes with breaks in between.

If they dont lag, or can accurately display the game then they should be legal.

 

[Hax]

what Crimson said, there need to be more crew battles and people need to be more enthusiastic about them. i'd say have them at the beginning to ensure people participate cause after everyone loses in singles they just wanna go home

word to melee being separated from brawl

yes to 3 stock pools, but imo bracket matches should be 5 stocks. an SD in a 4 stock match is still too much

 

[DJ Nintendo]

Crew battles are meant to be in the beginning of a tournament or else there's pretty much no point in doing them.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

crews could be used as another warmup before bracket. I could get behind that.

5 stock matches in bracket. . . I would do that. Just don't change the time limit and I'm fine.

 

[KAOSTAR]

could be tight.

 

[Frames]

I've seen the wires on two occasions, one was years ago with marvel and the other with SSf4 recently. I've seen the av to vga on a CRT monitor used at a marvel tourney. That game is fast as hell and I would imagine that around the time that I saw it that they took marvel pretty srsly. I assumed that it was a PC version of the game but around that time(junior year college i think) there was no DC emulation that ran marvel more than 20fps.)

I've seen the microsoft AV to vga converters with the 360 logos and **** used on LCD's at a CT ssf4 tourney. I played on that TV then played on a HDTV that was considerably larger and a diff brand(these probly/most likely are factors too). The HDTV lagged(even with the component cables). I have a HDTV with an HDMI wire and it comes off as lagless. Its a shame that I am not versed in ssf4 as i am in smash to make some sort of analogy but from my experience I had yet to feel lag with HDMI...thats kinda off subject since gamecube HMDI doesnt exist.....i dun think WII HMDI exist either.



Cort also has told me tales of mofo having a setup with a AV-VGA converter. Cort/mofo posting about that **** right now would be god-like. . I dun doubt that it will be a success at all. In theory it seems good.

this sounds pretty cool but i'm not entirely sure it would work

the marvel thing from what you are saying it sounds like they just had a dreamcast vga cable, dc could output at 640x480 and they sold a vga cable for the console it just plugged right in the back

hdmi is lagless because the source material ouputs at a high definition resolution, melee outputs at 480p so it seems like it would lag anyway just because the monitor would have to upscale it to the lcd's native resolution (which is most likely greater, although some lcd's have more than one native resolution which is sometimes at 480p)

from what i've read the cables are usually crappy and don't work so well and the best results come from having vga boxes that do the conversion but those are kinda pricey plus extra hardware to bring

component/rgb cables help but all gamecubes made after 2004 don't even have the port so that's useless

i think it could work hopefully like you said cort/mofo or someone else who tested it can verify

 

[SwiftBass]

did a bit of research on it today.......lots of reviews floating on this
http://www.superufo.com/product_html/Playstation_3_Wii_PS3_VGA_Cable.html


pretty bad.



yea frames i saw many suggestions to getting a dedicated box so the conversion would be good. lowest I saw was like 60 and i dun even know if it could do multiple systems(some of these boxes look like they could)

argh.....CRTs are fullproof and also john proof. cant win'em all i guess

 

[jugfingers]

lolwut

is that your dream format?

seems pretty

LOL


that took me a few seconds

 

[Eggm]

Yeah I honestly don't care what techincal mumbo jumbo people feed me. I have never played on an LCD that does not lag. Period. In any game. Theres a reason the starcraft pro's who are playing for like 50,000$ matches use CRt's still. Also they are forced to play around 9 hours a day cause its their job and I've read interviews from at least 5 of them saying CRT's are much easier on the eyes. And they are.

 

[Purple]

Dogysamich is a really good commentator, you should pay him to come to your tournaments.

 

[Alukard]

Yeah I honestly don't care what techincal mumbo jumbo people feed me. I have never played on an LCD that does not lag. Period. In any game. Theres a reason the starcraft pro's who are playing for like 50,000$ matches use CRt's still. Also they are forced to play around 9 hours a day cause its their job and I've read interviews from at least 5 of them saying CRT's are much easier on the eyes. And they are.

i agree with the i rather play on crts for dinero ... but i mean next gen consoles dont lag on non crts eggm

BUT .. LCD playability ... will give yet another life span to melee!!!! =]

 

[Nø Ca$h]

counterpicking is a HUGE part of crews. crew captains should have lots of exp and know everyone on the team.

 

[LLDL]

i agree with the i rather play on crts for dinero ... but i mean next gen consoles dont lag on non crts eggm

BUT .. LCD playability ... will give yet another life span to melee!!!! =]

actually next gen consoles do. I've never played on a non crt that didn't lag either. Or is it that those
dozens of people just don't have it hooked up right with the components or hdmi or whatever? For the most part I'm pretty sure that some gamers just don't
detect lag because they can't tell the difference (not directing this at u of course, but my friends seriously
couldn't tell the difference between a full second lag and normal gameplay)

 

[-ACE-]

I can't help but feel like lowering the number of stocks will ultimately lead to more conservative, overly cautious play, which goes against what a lot of us love about melee (high risk flashy combos, edgeguards, etc.). I'm not saying everyone does that but I guarantee that people will be going for safer (and often more boring) options more often, as they'd be afraid to lose that valuable stock. Random SD's would also be much more likely to have a huge impact on the outcome of a match. 3 stocks isn't really that bad but I feel like 4 is the best overall. 4 stocks matches in melee really don't take that long anyway, imo.