Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[Scar]

Help me stream lean!
http://leanmelee.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/lean-blogging-feedback-and-qa/

Update -- I thought it was a pretty good idea, but with 3 people and a one-game rotation (no sets) it really sucks to practice new things. I think for the future I'll just play rotation with a tournament mentality, and not try to do new things, but instead try to improve and refine my existing tourney strategy.

 

[Mizar]

I've always felt the Jiggs matchup was more about brawling and using Falcon's super fast speed and spidery legs to try to get under Jiggs and Uair
Also approaching fast Uair is pretty sick because Jiggs usually spend a good amount of time floating kinda high

Also if a Jiggs is ducking then she isn't in the air, what exactly is she going to do from a crouch that's so scary <.<

CC rest, shieldgrab which can lead to rest or an aerial that sends you back the way you came.
Can't grab either. Even projectile spam is alot harder.

 

[Walt]

You shouldn't get CC rested by anything because of spacing nair/uair correctly. Gentlemen maybe but why do you need to gentlemen puff ever? You can also just space grabs so that your body isn't right over her. Just don't be a derp and try to shieldgrab a puff crouching in front of you, just JC grab and if you're in shield then roll/WD OoS away.

 

[Palpi]

hbox said to my friend that gentlemen ***** puff :/ dont know if its true or not...just saying lol

 

[_Rocky_]

ya the knee hit on the gentleman can hit puff if she crouches and stuff

BUT you gotta be careful

 

[Windrose]

Scar, how do you do your nairs?

 

[Scar]

i basically always use Y and the c-stick, and I've never pressed R

the only exceptions are instant uair (where i use A) and nair (obviously use A)

 

[Windrose]

Oh. I meant like, your timings and stuff. Your aerial timings feel different when I look at your videos and I tried reproducing it but it wasn't the same. Do you just don't fast fall and do the aerial late or something?

 

[Scar]

lol i thought my aerial timings were pretty tight? news to me. link to show what you're talking about?

 

[GOTM]

lol i thought my aerial timings were pretty tight? news to me. link to show what you're talking about?

i think he means you get the last hit to come out right at the ground. which ****s some peoples timing up and hits a lot b/c of it.

 

[Deleted member]

one thing i notice is on floaties instead of doing quick shffl up-airs you do auto cancel version while still having forward momentum so you can easily n-air to continue the combo which is something i need to do

 

[mexicanmax227]

Hey everybody! i just recently got some experience for first time ever. here are the links. Tell me if any of this is still relevent? I play an older playstyle but took a game or too. BTW this is the first time ive played against people in al lonnng time. Im a marth main so if ya see something funny, or something that needs to be worked on. hit me up. Theres also a lot of fox games in there too so i will be posting this in the fox threads as well. Thanks smash community. Marth on the rise from mississippi.
http://www.twitch.tv/winnarly/b/310270234 First part of MSU get together.
http://www.twitch.tv/winnarly/b/310275888 falcon starts at 9min.

 

[Mizar]

What do you guys think about nairing with Z vs peach? Might take some practice to let it come out quickly without jc grabbing, but auto-catching turnips seems pretty good. Plus it feels faster than moving from the jump button to A.

EDIT* Mexicanmax which of the two are you lol?

 

[mexicanmax227]

Im marth lol. im first port

 

[Nakamaru]

ya the knee hit on the gentleman can hit puff if she crouches and stuff

BUT you gotta be careful

She can still punish the first two jabs really hard if the puff has a good enough reaction time.

 

[Windrose]

lol i thought my aerial timings were pretty tight? news to me. link to show what you're talking about?

There were like a bunch in this match in the Deep GFs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46hHKrHlzcA

The timings are tight I'm saying like there's a bunch of variations and timings that makes something just tick in my mind when I watch it.

Not only your nairs but like your other aerials too.

You do different fast falled timings (or sometimes no fast fall at all I think) and sometimes your nair comes out right away, sometimes it comes out really late and it messes up your opponents.

Got any advice on breaking down aerials into sub moves? (i'm not sure if i'm just on a completely different page right now with everyone else...does anyone else get what I mean when they watch scar vids?)

I know other falcons mix up the timings of their aerials too...there's just something about scar's...i'm trying to emulate it in practice matches but I can't get it to look like his.

Maybe i'm just crazy

 

[Deleted member]

i see it too

just learn to mix up spacings and use auto canceled aerials

 

[Violence]

****, Johnny, how the hell did you somehow make me significantly better at the Falcon matchup with 2 words? I still can't believe it.

I think my gaping weakenss has moved back to Fox/Falco now. Gotta get ready for manifest.

 

[Nakamaru]

@windrose
--One thing i found when trying to do something "the pros" do is not to have the goal to make what i'm doing "look like theirs." Instead i try to imagine what that feeling is of pressure, spacing, or rhythm. Then i just try to find that feeling when i play. I find (for me at least) that i will be more successful that way than worrying if it looks right. Because often times it may look wrong, but be better/exactly what you want.

Food for thought.

 

[Hax]

can't wait to team with my boy scar at zenith

 

[Mizar]

can't wait to team with my boy scar at zenith

Can't wait to see you team with your boy scar at zenith

 

[Wolfy!]

@windrose
--One thing i found when trying to do something "the pros" do is not to have the goal to make what i'm doing "look like theirs." Instead i try to imagine what that feeling is of pressure, spacing, or rhythm. Then i just try to find that feeling when i play. I find (for me at least) that i will be more successful that way than worrying if it looks right. Because often times it may look wrong, but be better/exactly what you want.

Food for thought.

I agree with this. It's definitely more useful to try to emulate the feel rather than the look.

 

[Da Shuffla]

That's really true. I found, in many cases, that I was moving my hands way too fast when trying to perform certain tactics, because high level Falcons seemed to be moving that fast. Only when trying to do it right, as opposed to trying to do it fast, have I seen success.

Do it right first, speed will come.

 

[Couch]

What does one mean when he says 'auto cancelled' aerials? is that like last second u-airs that end before the full animation?

 

[_Rocky_]

no, that would be an uair that ends in the air, making you able to double jump, do another aerial or land without needing to l-cancel

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Autocancel is similar to Lcancel or Float Cancel. After a certain point of the animation, you can touch the ground and there will be no lag*. There are tons of examples of this used all the time, but one is Falco's short hop bair without fast falling.




*technically 4 frames, which is your standard landing lag. You get the same thing if you jump and don't attack and land on the ground again. Peach also gets this with her FC aerials.

 

[Couch]

Ahh, I see. Responsible for those delicious double u-airs I always tend to see

 

[Wizzrobe]

can't wait to team with my boy scar at zenith

I cant wait for those vids

 

[j00t]

Need help with Fox/Falco. **** those space****s

Also Samus. She's a spacevag

 

[JonnyW]

Need help with Fox/Falco. **** those space****s

Also Samus. She's a spacevag

Spacies - Tech chase 100% of the time. Grab > Chase > Re-grab > End with stop or knee or something. Be fast OoS when the overshoot aerials or dash attacks. When edgeguarding always get on the edge so they are forced to recover on the stage, practice kneeing through platforms on Yoshi story and FoD. Full hop knee works on Dreamland too.

Samus - Shield a lot, seriously. Wavedash OoS if she tries to do her lame jab/tilt d-smash thing. Get under her and u-air a lot. If you can knee OoS really fast it will own her. Just let her hit your shield and punish with a knee or stomp OoS. If she starts whoring CC then run around her until she unprepared for some stomps.

 

[Windrose]

Guys....this Vish falcon is really fast....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG8rYRWOz9c&feature=related

Also, why is he able to recover so well? Is he SDI'ing everything that falco unleasehs so he can tech at those ridiculouspercents? or is the falco just not edge guarding well?

Here are a few moments i'm talking about in the match:

1)can't really tell here cuz pkmn stadium is blocking
2) Same here
3) Here?
4) Here?

I'm not really usre upon rewatching.

 

[Nakamaru]

looks like SDI imo.

 

[Scar]

@windrose and all, can you guys please start putting timestamps on vids? i want to see what you're talking about but don't want to watch a 9min set, and others may feel the same way

p.s. i saw 1 dsmash from falco and decided that he's not good at edgeguarding falcon. you have to hit him with the gish (not-so secret norcal technique for the free-est edgeguard in the game)

 

[Windrose]

Alright, it's done.

 

[unknown522]

he's edgeguarding him inefficiently.

there's nothing more to it.

 

[Scar]

what unknown said. thanks for the timestamps! that was incredibly helpful :D

 

[Zhea]

Hey all, back with what I hope isn't a stupid question:

What is the value of Stomp? This is something I have been thinking of a lot as I slowly improve with falcon. What situations is Stomp a better call than Knee? Stomps lead to Knees on most of the cast of course, but I feel that any time I could have stomped and hit, I could have Kneed and hit, or there is something that covers more options ( IE edge guarding ). Don't get me wrong I don't think it's a bad move, I am just wondering compared to the rest of Falcon's roster it might be over shadowed.

 

[Brookman]

Bobby, you're tha man keep up the good work.

 

[It's me Q]

Hey all, back with what I hope isn't a stupid question:

What is the value of Stomp? This is something I have been thinking of a lot as I slowly improve with falcon. What situations is Stomp a better call than Knee? Stomps lead to Knees on most of the cast of course, but I feel that any time I could have stomped and hit, I could have Kneed and hit, or there is something that covers more options ( IE edge guarding ). Don't get me wrong I don't think it's a bad move, I am just wondering compared to the rest of Falcon's roster it might be over shadowed.

It's a better setup for combos at low % maybe? When a knee can be recovered from.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Hey all, back with what I hope isn't a stupid question:

What is the value of Stomp? This is something I have been thinking of a lot as I slowly improve with falcon. What situations is Stomp a better call than Knee? Stomps lead to Knees on most of the cast of course, but I feel that any time I could have stomped and hit, I could have Kneed and hit, or there is something that covers more options ( IE edge guarding ). Don't get me wrong I don't think it's a bad move, I am just wondering compared to the rest of Falcon's roster it might be over shadowed.

Its great for setting up combos. If you knee them, they will get knocked back but they can come back and hit you or something. With stomp, you can combo them and give them a lot more damage and end with a knee potentially, which could possibly take a stock off them. Plus you don't always want to use knee you will want to mix things up so you won't be so predictable.