Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[Roneblaster]

Tech skill practice....meh.

I have no1 to play where i live.

Small ****ing town, the only prospect i have is maybe introducing one of the guys i work with to melee. Then theres that long road of training before i can even use him as practice.

 

[Roneblaster]

Or i could just play dota and RAPEEEE ppls face, or record for my gears 3 montage.



Double post, you jelly?

 

[Da Shuffla]

That's basically what I do. During the summer when I'm home I can smash with my buddies but when I'm at school I just have one person to play against maybe every week-ish and just practice my tech skill at random, somewhat infrequent intervals outside of that.

What's your ideal solo techskill practice look like though? Of course it depends on what you decide you need to focus on, but what methods (stages, exercises) do you use for specific skills? I'm trying to find more efficient ways to practice.

Lol, I considered posting my own overly-complicated training schedule when I came up with it a month or two ago. I also only get to play with people so often because of school and such. I'll post it in this thread later today. Kind of busy at the moment.

 

[0Room]

That's basically what I do. During the summer when I'm home I can smash with my buddies but when I'm at school I just have one person to play against maybe every week-ish and just practice my tech skill at random, somewhat infrequent intervals outside of that.

What's your ideal solo techskill practice look like though? Of course it depends on what you decide you need to focus on, but what methods (stages, exercises) do you use for specific skills? I'm trying to find more efficient ways to practice.

Right now I'm just trying to play as quickly as possible
Be able to dash out of EVERYTHING
Combo as quickly as possible [getting things I didn't think I could before is really satisfying]

I work a lot on holding edge->ledgehop->wavedash back->immediately jump->waveland on platform
You can do it on every stage [yes even Dl64] so that's a really good skill to learn and practice

Basically I'm trying new things with uair too
Like S2J's said before, uairing missed techs are like 40% into a grab is super good because knee just knocks them down again and uair doesn't

So yeah just going through all the edgecancels, platform dashes, movement speed, grab comboes [uthrow->double uair is something I've always neglected], speeding up comboes [like if you don't uair->knee fast enough you're just not gonna get it]
so those are some good ideas

If you don't know how to do the "play by yourself" sometimes that's really useful. FZero took the video down but basically you do this

Click on the "name" box [to put on a tag] and hold B
Press "make new name" at the exact same second B is going to take you back to the menu
Select stage
Profit

Just make sure it's on Time attack, infinite, if it's on stocks you'll instantly win because there's no enemy
The camera's really close on you though so that takes some getting used to, you can do it in fixed camera mode if you want.

Anyway, that's my stuff

sheik

you guys dont even know, kaffei4lunch2good

except you do know, im just stumped as ****

I do know bro
Whatchu wanna know

Sheik is a patience and a speed test. I feel the MU is pretty much even these days. I feel like the only advantage she has is her combos and edgeguarding are easier but whatever, just **** her.

Definitely. I honestly think that CF is top 3 in this game
He has winning match ups with Peach & Marth [Marth could go either way but I'm thinking he wins, personally], even with Jiggs, leaning towards winning imo, and even with Sheik. The only two high tier match ups he's bad at are the spacies but it can be really bad there sometimes.
So
Random thought of the day

Punish people for sleeping on

He's sooooo fast and has such good moves
Almost all of his moves are super good

So make people believe what I believe through kicking their *** multiple times

 

[Beat!]

Marth beats Falcon.

 

[Divinokage]

No, he doesn't.

 

[Strong Badam]

0Room's posts are too long and not useful enough to validate reading them. Anyone else agree?

 

[Tekk]

He does that thing
When he goes down a line
In the middle
Of every single sentence
I guess he writes like he speaks
But that's kinda disturbing
imo

 

[Beat!]

No, he doesn't.

Yes, he does.

0Room's posts are too long and not useful enough to validate reading them. Anyone else agree?

Even if I did, that's a pretty rude thing to say >_>

 

[Divinokage]

0Room's posts are too long and not useful enough to validate reading them. Anyone else agree?

Just like people saying to me stop posting your posts are annoying. Ya.. I get it... 2011 is where mankind, because of the internet, became insensitive *******s.

 

[Strong Badam]

He does that thing
When he goes down a line
In the middle
Of every single sentence
I guess he writes like he speaks
But that's kinda disturbing
imo

Yeah it's mostly this. It's like Mango without the fact that it's from Mango

 

[crush]

I used to post like this

Quite frankly

All the time

Ahhhh

****

 

[ryankam10]

0Room's posts are too long and not useful enough to validate reading them. Anyone else agree?

lol r00d .

 

[Strong Badam]

damn now I feel bad... Sorry 0Room <3

 

[DuckPimp]

Just like people saying to me stop posting your posts are annoying. Ya.. I get it... 2011 is where mankind, because of the internet, became insensitive *******s.

dude where have you been

maybe in canada people are a LOT different

but people have been *******s for a long time






but not everyone




in regards to 0rooms syntax, i find myself doing that often as well... although not always in the middle of sentences, but phrases.

its pretty pointless, but... stylistic?


i just need to GET IN against sheik. combos will come, sure, getting combo'd will teach me how to get out

but i dont know of how to semireliably start my own rapetrain

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I generally don't read long posts unless they are targeted at me. I don't even read PPs long *** posts even though they are probably super enlightening and stuff.

 

[Walt]

it's not pointless it's another way of imparting inflection into text as text is not especially strong in that area.

by doing it you leave a sentence, or a concise thought, with a particularly long pause at the end. it is similar to a paragraph but because the idea is so short the longer pause seems like a lot of breathing room in sentence : pause ratio. which is intentional as it makes the sentence more poignant.

as you have learned in early english classes different length pauses change the meaning of what you're expressing. changing the length in a pause is extremely important when trying to dictate the flow of your words. by using the comma, the period, semicolon, the colon, the hyphen, the ellipses, and new paragraph/line break you alter the meaning of how your phrasing is read.

don't sleep on line breaks.

you see how that point is stronger than if I'd typed

don't sleep on line breaks. they are useful.

 

[Divinokage]

I generally don't read long posts unless they are targeted at me. I don't even read PPs long *** posts even though they are probably super enlightening and stuff.

I've read them but it's not really insightful to me since I do have a unique way to look at things. I understand what he says but the meaning behind it is complicated for me lol because it comes from his mind, it's still fascinating though. Truly understanding someone that is higher level than you is certainly something... I mean how the hell can you break down Melee as if the game were sub-atomic particles? That's what I get when i read PP's posts lol.

 

[tarheeljks]

falcon's spacies matchups alone are enough to make him not top 3


edit: not trying to whine about falcon being a bad character or something, just seems like an indefensible position even if you are viewing his bad mu's in the most positive light

 

[Divinokage]

dude where have you been

maybe in canada people are a LOT different

but people have been *******s for a long time






but not everyone




in regards to 0rooms syntax, i find myself doing that often as well... although not always in the middle of sentences, but phrases.

its pretty pointless, but... stylistic?


i just need to GET IN against sheik. combos will come, sure, getting combo'd will teach me how to get out

but i dont know of how to semireliably start my own rapetrain

I've been here all the time since 5-6 years ago and I've definitely seen people change, ya people trolled back in the day too but it was actually funny, now it just seems like people don't care at all.

 

[0Room]

Yeah I press enter to end a thought. Mahone brought that up to me too and it's something that I noticed on my own so I try to work on it but I forgot there.
Also I apologize Strongbad if my posts are not interesting to you. It wasn't really anything you really needed to read anyway, as that information was more for someone who wouldn't know those things. So unless you didn't know the single player glitch or something, I understand why you wouldn't get anything out of that.

Tarheel, why do you think that?
My personal view of the tier list is how many good match ups you have.
If Falcon has a good match up against every but two characters, I feel like that would put him up to the top 3/top 5 area. Maybe you have a different criteria, in which that would be useful to share

But basically he
beats low tiers [though players will **** that up for Falcon]
beats high tiers previously mentioned
----
goes even with sheik
----
loses to Spacies


That's my idealistic match up list. And so, with those match ups, what is stopping him from being top 3/5? Is there something in particular that stands out, or another character that you feel tops him? [or again, back to the differing criteria]
I mean honestly it's not even really an argument just an idea. Do I honestly believe this? Yeah. But I'm not really going to push super hard for it, it's really not that important. Considering our flame wars on here require a lot of time and energy I'd rather save those for something that's actually super importnat lol.

 

[Strong Badam]

It's not so much Falcon's inability, but the greater comparative ability of Peach/Puff/Sheik/Marth that's preventing him from breaking into the top 5. Those characters have at least 1 debatably even match-up with the spacies, while Falcon loses to both.

 

[tarheeljks]

yeah pretty much that. like i said above, even when you view his mu's in the most positive light (i.e. sheik even, marth favored) he still comes up short in the spacies matchups relative to marth/sheik.

to be fair the top of my tier list weird too b/c i think sheik is the 2nd best character after fox (thought this when i mained falco fwiw)

 

[BigD!!!]

i know falcons are doing better vs sheik these days, but i'd still hesitate a lot before saying falcon goes even with sheik

this is probably more like a case of pikachu players saying they go even with falcon, only because the other good characters are notably harder. if you look at it from falcons perspective, however, we think of characters like marth as even matchups and pikachu is pretty easy

falcons might be able to keep up with sheik, but its only out of necessity. im willing to bet most sheiks would choose fighting a falcon over fighting fox, falco, peach, puff, and icies at the very least, and depending on the sheik maybe some other junk like marth or even doc or something

so really youre looking at something more like: loses to fox, loses to falco, loses to sheik, goes even with marth, goes even with puff, slightly beats peach, i wouldnt say more than slightly beats ice climbers but ive seen that matchup go all over the place, and then from there starts handily beating characters

i could make lists of matchups for other characters like marth, puff, sheik, or peach, detailing their best attributes as characters and why their matchups vs other top tiers are pretty good, but im not gonna do that unless it seems necessary

 

[0Room]

BigD is pretty much the current match up list
But yeah the ideas there make sense, in everyone's response

And I'm proud of you guys for stating opinions without being hostile about them
So what would be your tier lists then? If we looked at Falcon's MU in the most positive light. Or everyone's in the most positive light.

 

[Walt]

I always want to make like, 3 tier lists. One for theory bros, one of what I think the metagame will turn into within 1 year, and one of the current metagame.

currently I'd say it's like this:

falco (playing really strong defense) (even or wins all lower MUs)
fox (playing stage control+tech skill offense) (barely loses to falco, even or wins everything below)
sheik (playing defensive with gay needles) (loses to fox, even or wins everything below)
peach (silly peach BS I don't even know how to explain) (same as sheik)
marth (defensive, plays extremely reactive) (loses to falco and sheik, even with everyone else)
falcon (punish any mistake real hard) (loses to spacies, even with everyone else, maybe beats peach)
puff (tests your patience and spacing, rest is silly) (practically even with everyone except peach YL lol)

IC's, Doc, and samus would probably be next but Shroomed may be an outlier, then IC's and Samus are hard to judge because of my lack of knowledge.

 

[tarheeljks]

fox/sheik/falco/marth/puff/falcon/peach. i'm not totally sure of separation, but i see a gap b/t marth/puff and think sheik is closer to falco than fox. could even go w/marth over falco tbh.

i like to view character strength not only in terms of representation at the tip top of the highest levels (i.e. winning tournaments), but also by looking at the distribution of demonstrated play levels for characters once you move down lists. fox really stands out in this respect and i believe him to be the best character for this reason. i haven't sat down and actually made a list of characters/players and i can't claim to be up to date with every region, but the fox list seems to run the deepest when i name people of the top of y head. also, think falco is overrated for similar reasons. he is highly represented, but has a very top heavy list (shoutouts to homemadewaffle's falco btw)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

peach is not that low and marth is not that high

 

[tarheeljks]

show yours, since i showed mine?


i'm not too hung up peach's placement. could go above falcon/puff, just think that entire group is worse than marth

edit: thinking a little harder i wouldn't put peach over puff and should move puff into the next group

 

[JPOBS]

I think Wavedancing is better than dash dancing: It's more nervous, keeps you closer to your opponent.
Hax is a good example of "wavedancer" (sounds so gay LOL)

hax literally JUST started doing this lmao

edit: mad late. watevs

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

show yours, since i showed mine?


i'm not too hung up peach's placement. could go above falcon/puff, just think that entire group is worse than marth

edit: thinking a little harder i wouldn't put peach over puff and should move puff into the next group

fox falco
sheik puff peach marth
falcon ICs

 

[BigD!!!]

i wouldnt put peach over marth

i think ICs should be way way better than they are, i think their grab game outside of cg/infinites is undeveloped

they look like they should be able to tech chase regrab on reaction with sopo, which should allow you to wait for nana to catch up for the good infinite stuff

 

[S l o X]

hax literally JUST started doing this lmao

i always "wavedance". i find myself in better positioning and i suck at consistently wave dashing and being in perfect positioning like that so i just wavedash where i want to be. (unless i'm misinformed as to what wavedancing is . . . yea)

i'm so ****ing hype for rom and apex. i could make a combo video (kind of janky) with the last smashfest i went to.

 

[ryankam10]

fox higher than falco imo
and theres no way falcon beats peach ever lol

 

[Winston]

No way Peach is above Marth. One of them is disadvantaged to Fox and Puff and one of them isn't..

they look like they should be able to tech chase regrab on reaction with sopo, which should allow you to wait for nana to catch up for the good infinite stuff

Probably only 2/3 of the tech options (in place and towards you). Their dash isn't fast enough to get the away.

WD techchasing on reaction is something I haven't entirely ruled out of possibility but I've never seen anyone be able to do it, ever, and I can't do it myself, so...

 

[Roneblaster]

People dont even know what trolling is.

Saying "hey youre a ***" thats not trolling, and 95% of "trolling" is just people lobbing insults at each other.

Falco fox
Sheik Puff Marth Peach
Falcon ICs

ICs with wobbling are just as good if not better than falcon.

 

[crush]

Only a real warrior can understand the true meaning of trolling

-cage the warrior

 

[Divinokage]

Nah I'm too dumb for that. I only know how to slay trolls.

-Cage the warrior

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

No way Peach is above Marth. One of them is disadvantaged to Fox and Puff and one of them isn't..

Both of them lose those match-ups, though i guess marth v fox is evenish. Peach has a better match-up vs falco, sheik, ICs, Samus and ganon.

 

[crush]

Nah I'm too dumb for that. I only know how to slay trolls.

-Cage the warrior

I like to contradict myself and make no sense

-Cage the warrior