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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

D

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Big useless post

falcon being even with shiek/puff is terribly optimistic

falcon/marth is even although i'd say even BUT very slightly marth's advantage

falcon/peach is even but very slightly falcons advantage

falcon loses to fox, but fox is a tough character/ prone to mistakes/ most foxes aren't that good vs good falcons. So falcons worst matchup is normally a 70/30 or 65/35 but fox mistakes make it 60/40 foxs favor

falcon loses to falco, but this matchup isn't as bad as people think but any mistake is costly, but very little to no mistakes and its tough for falco to land that hit on you

falcon vs puff i don't have a lot of experience in but I don't think its worse than fox

falcon utterly ****s on lower tiers

falcon in theory ***** icies but nobody knows how to face icies since they are rare

falcon vs samus is probably not as bad as i thought for samus but still bad

falcon ***** ganon really hard as long as u don't get hit like a dummy

falcon beats doc but not many good docs for matchup experience but I think falcon beats him at least 60/40

falcon beats pika, ban FD and ur good

===

Fox belongs in the #1 spot in THEORY. He at worst ties and pretty much wins all matchups. But he is the toughest character to use technically. Him getting ***** for a mistake sucks too
====
Falco is interesting, because I don't think in theory he beats, or might not even tie with some of the other top/high tiers. But as it stands now, Falco is currently the best tourney results wise.

What he offers is great control with lasers and shield pressure that is inferior to foxes but easier to pull off, 98% of people get wrecked by his shield pressure, the other 2-3% can deal with it and not get ***** instaneously.

Falco does get ***** like fox does, perhaps more so due to worse recovery. But it is much easier to not mess up with Falco than Fox IMO

So falco's the king of control, but get past his wall and he's just a glass cannon. Personally, he is one of the easiest characters to do well with once u get decent at the game that you don't get ***** and actually know to space/ attack properly

Falco = Fox

Falco vs Marth/Shiek/Puff/Peach

all 4 of these are pretty debatable and will be questioned by the community for probably forever.

my bad opinion is that falco loses very slightly to ghey marths and slightly to ghey shieks

Falco vs puff/peach is even IMO

Falco beats Falcon but its not a straight up counter matchup

So, Falco might not have as good matchups as a well-played fox but you don't make nearly as many mistakes with falco, kinda easy to regain the pace of the game with lasers

===

Shiek vs Fox is even but even with very slight fox's favor

Shiek beats Falco SLIGHTLY. Shiek's n-air out of shield is often a really answer to Falco's shield pressure game that most other characters lack, although good falcos mix it up well enough that shieks can't auto pilot use it every time

Both **** each other though

Shiek loses to puff

Shiek beats Marth (either slightly or good amount, i personally don't care)

Shiek beats Falcon. Best case scenario is 55-45 shieks favor IMO

Shiek beats Peach

Shiek vs Icies I seriously do not have a ****en clue

==

Marth=Fox, but my biased opinion is that fox very very slightly wins

Marth > Falco by very tiny amount. Marth has tools like shiek that can stop brain dead shield pressure.

Marth < Shiek

Marth > Peach but not a counter matchup

Marth ? Puff, i sincerely have no clue but its probably not far off from even

==

Puff definitely beats Shiek

Others seem even/ slight disadvantage puff

I have a suspicion that puff doesn't belong in 3rd spot tbh. Her various weird matchups with young link/ Doc also somewhat support my belief
==

Peach, loses to everyone except maybe falco

some iffy mid tier matchups too. Young link too MAYBE

==

So, I didn't really back up my opinionated thoughts on the matchups, but it seems like Peach is higher on the tier list despite Peach having more bad matchups than Falcon. IDK if puff truly belongs in 3rd spot either

But historically, peaches have done better than Falcon both in terms of fighting spacies and in overall tournament results.

I can see Falcon moving up 1 spot at BEST and peach going down 1 spot. In the end, I truly do not give a flying **** since 1 spot up/down on a tier list is not something that really matters. But I do think too many Falcon players whine about how 'bad' Falcon is. Falcon's pretty good IMO

Based on current tourney results only tier list:

Falco

Fox/Peach/Puff w/e order you like but seeing peach 2nd would be really weird

Shiek/Marth

Falcon
==
just looking at this list and not seeing fox on top or top 3 is blasphemy to most.

Tier list based on matchups:

Fox

Shiek/Marth/Puff (w/e order)

Falco

Falcon

Peach

Now this seems more correct than tourney results only but results don't show it for fox/shiek/marth

so current tier list, is more of a double standard that combines the 2. I personally think its alright. But is it a tier list based upon fighting spacies or who has more generally good matchups compared to others + tourney results?

The tier list is a big mash up of different things factoring in, but even when viewed from different standpoints, most tend to overlap/ be fairly close to current metagame "truth"
==
for fun, Johnny's completely biased NO SILLY MISTAKES MELEE tier list:

Shiek/Marth

Fox

Falco

Bowser cuz i trust magus420

===

johnny's golden advice:

don't worry about tier placements too much. Tiers change your character 0% and they've remained the same since 2001. Just be better than your opponent so you win 100% of the time even when playing like complete dik

Falco is EZ to get good with IMO. Shiek is also easy but suffers from not having a real approach. Puff you have to live with being a homo and the entire world hating on you. So if you want results with a clear conscience play Falco
 
S l o X

S l o X

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Sveet said:
Both of them lose those match-ups, though i guess marth v fox is evenish. Peach has a better match-up vs falco, sheik, ICs, Samus and ganon.
Click to expand...
What?

Falcon >> Peach vs Sheik, Samus and Ganon.

I also think Falcon poops on ICs but from what I hear Peach is the best vs them.

that's a long *** johnny post
 
0Room

0Room

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Messages
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Oh yeah we're not worrying about tiers
Or at least I'm not.

Basically to me it's a way to talk about all of the characters, their strengths, weaknesses, and ways they fight each other,
The placement itself really isn't as important imo.
 
ryankam10

ryankam10

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Messages
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when i think of falco I see spaced dair on shield into fmash LOL
over and over and over again just in my head
 
Da Shuffla

Da Shuffla

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Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
1,810
Training Schedule

Ughhh, tired, so I'll keep it concise.

Monday/BF
Part 1: Gentleman
Part 2: Comboing

Basically, 5x a week(once for every stage), you practice for however long you have. I only have about 30 min a day, so each of my parts are only 15 minutes long.

Part 1: You pick a tactic that you can't do, and then drill it for 15 minutes. Let's say you can't gentleman consistently. Go to practice mode, and jab>jab>Knee the computer until you can do it consistently. You can use the play by yourself glitch if you need to practice something like wavelanding and you really aren't comfortable with Dr. Mario watching you practice. It's a good way to move unhindered throughout the stage.

Part 2: Fight 4-stock matches against Lvl 1 cpus on the given stage. This is just where you practice being smooth and fluid, while comboing a CPU. You can also practice your Part 1 tactic under a little bit of pressure. A little bit of pressure is good.

30 minutes a day.

5 times a week.

And you'll be in the best shape of your life.

Call now.
 
0Room

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Boone, NC
s2j said:
"what stops falcon from being top 3/5"
Click to expand...
Yes but again, it's back to that idea that the actual specifics of "do you think he's like this and you shouldn't because this" of the actual placement isn't as important as the reasons behind it.

As in, where people were telling me why Falcon wasn't as good as top 5 because of the spacies even match ups that other high tier characters have.
Tier lists are a good way to talk about the different characters and how they react to each other, in a way that talking about simply Falcon doesn't work. For example, I used to really like going into all the character guides and just reading all of them, looking for things that if I used the character I could look for, and things that aren't necessarily used in the match up as much that could be useful.

Same thing here.
By talking about their strengths and weaknesses against other characters, there's a better chance of understanding the characters, and therefore forming ideas on what to do with them and against them. So yes, the discussion is about "why isn't CF top 3/5", but it's not really about that at all.
 
BairJew

BairJew

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It's quite hilarious that almost every falcon main is a body builder.

Also having trouble with following MU's:
Worst MU: Sheik/Falcon everything I do never works and I get crazy *****.
Second Worst: Marth/Falcon seems to COMPLETELY outspace everything falcon has and he can never ever ever approach.
50/50: Falco/Falcon it depends on the day of the week, basically the mu sucks and is highly highly in falco's favor just wish i knew how to deal with some of falco's garbage.

I know the puff and peach mu's pretty well so no trouble their. and fox can become easy but their is still show crazy **** I forget about in that mu.

but anyways any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
 
ryankam10

ryankam10

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Joined
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Messages
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Walt said:
more reps lighter weight > less reps more weight

more reps builds better muscle.
Click to expand...
not true
lesser reps and more weight builds new muscle mass
like ideally you do 8-12 reps and you struggle on the 12th rep, and do around 3-5 sets of 12 reps. that would be a workout schedule for one day, for one muscle group (alternate with other muscle groups in between, like bicep curl/behind the head raises (triceps))
more reps just tones...
 
Walt

Walt

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I too am mad skinny but it's cool I dress sorta hipster douche lite and get those hipster chicks.

All about those hipster chicks.
 
Winston

Winston

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CC is hella good vs almost everybody

Falcon doesn't get hurt by it much harder than the other characters do imo. Sure it stops you from doing nair -> grab all the time, but other characters don't get to do that either. Landing a nair still lets you do janky pressure stuff.

Sometimes they can cc dtilt the gentleman but you can cc that back and grab them if they do it a lot.

And Falcon pretty much never gets CC grabbed directly cause his range is pretty good.

Stomp and knee are great tools to call excessive CCing with
 
Walt

Walt

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Messages
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Eat small amounts multiple times day to make your metabolism work all the time. do not eat right before you sleep, that slows the hell out of you metabolism. do a lot of squats. don't eat a ton of stuff you obviously know you shouldn't.

/notexpertjustgeneralfacts
 
ryankam10

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
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i dunno im 90% sure im gunna get fat when my metabolism dies
i suspect walt is right, eat lots of small snacks that are full in fibres and other nutrients
like nuts and crap
and also run alot
 
Walt

Walt

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Messages
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I eat a ton of trailmix with dried fruit. I buy the Kirkland Fruit & Nut Medley's from Costco, they're like $12 for a 3lb 8oz bag, has dried kiwi, pineapple, mango, cherry, papaya, raisins, banana; peanuts, almonds, and walnuts. Comes out to be a pretty good deal(at least in expensive *** California) since you spread it out into multiple meals. Throw some in a sandwich baggy and go to school/work/out eat a little every so often. Don't get trailmix with M&Ms btw. Another thing you can eat is half a sandwich every 2 hours.

keep your metab rolling son

edit lol at offtopic as ****. Marth CC grabbing gentlemen is laaaaaame.
 
B

BigD!!!

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Messages
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yeah man, the marth i used to play at one point started just holding down and mashing A as soon as i hit his shield so that whenever i finished jabbing, he'd get a grab
 
Walt

Walt

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Messages
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Location
Concord, CA
Hella topics have been off topic the last day or two and no one has been trying to quell the freedom. I say we bask in the brilliance.
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
I think it's actually safer to attack Puff when she's in the air with Falcon
You have your long Falcon legs to compete with the aerial penis and when she's grounded she'll just duck your **** and rest you like a jerk @_@
 
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