Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Oh Darc... if only he could actually give advice it'd be awesome being in the same region as him... instead I just get ***** and cry myself to sleep.

 

[Divinokage]

Keep getting *****, maybe you'll learn someday lol.

 

[NES n00b]

DI the upthrow of Falcon? I think it's possible.

It's improbable, but for real that chaingrab works. >_>

 

[outRAGEous]

ken combo on final stock ftw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15zYKH1y8_g

anybody know any other vids with it?

also what happened at 1:51, is there a way to do that consistently?

 

[DrewB008]

darkrain does that to colbol in their 5th match of their most recent set

and if youre talking about that grab thing, nah i dont think there is nor do i think you'd want to really

 

[outRAGEous]

i was talking about for general purposes, with other char.... as well. it just looks like the ganon di'ed out of the grab onto the ledge somehow. if you were to do that with falcon, you could simply go into another ledge attack, typical neutral, dair, uair, etc.


and yesss, darkrain's my favorite falcon to play and watch. his style is so different from anyone else in the world.

 

[halcyon.days]

Ahhh a few questions ...

If you're doing the Isai gentleman, all three jabs need to hit right? Otherwise you won't be able to cancel it with <insert move here>. I've just been practicing by cancelling it with a shield, but I'm assuming the best move would be to cancel it with a dash.

I can moonwalk the full distance but I've yet to have any idea on how to stickywalk. Yes, I realize it's impractical (just like the moonwalk) but it's just something I want to learn with Falcon.

Lastly, Falcon can edgehog like you can in brawl (run off the edge and then edgehog). I did it a few times by mistake but if you time the moonwalk perfectly so that you start to turn around at the edge with your forward momentum, you'll immiediately grab the edge. It's hard to visualize and sinc eI don't have any type of recording equipment... but does anyone know what I'm talking about?

 

[Mogwai]

Lastly, Falcon can edgehog like you can in brawl (run off the edge and then edgehog). I did it a few times by mistake but if you time the moonwalk perfectly so that you start to turn around at the edge with your forward momentum, you'll immiediately grab the edge. It's hard to visualize and sinc eI don't have any type of recording equipment... but does anyone know what I'm talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDiQ0qJd1p4

he starts by showing how to ledgehog with it

 

[halcyon.days]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDiQ0qJd1p4

he starts by showing how to ledgehog with it

No, I mean you run at the edge, then moonwalk RIGHT before the edge. It pretty much looks like you run at the edge and then you're magically turned around on the edge.

 

[JonaDiaper]

oh u mean the pc edgehog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0d7AxQdVVE

i dont think falcon can do it

oh wait you said something else nevermind...i read your post wrong....oh well lol

 

[j00t]

So how do you approach Sheik? (lol), or even play against Sheik in general?

I know the basic rules of don't get grabbed, stay away from the ledge, etc. etc...

Once I get a grab in I'm buying my opponent a ticket to **** city, but I basically have to wait for a botch-up and space my nairs. I also like to approach with stomp sometimes but I seem to get caught into her trickery more often than not.

 

[outRAGEous]

you can do the ledgedrop thing with falcon. just harder, and based on char. specific situations there are better options.

and moon walk can be effective, i just think its unexplored, as are most things in melee.

in the falcon ken kombo vid i posted, i moonwalked into bair.

in the following vid i knee into superfast ledgehog from the middle of fd at 1:29

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G98BHpocyk

basically same thing on poke stad with out ledgehog, but when your backwards momentum is going that fast.... lmao. too many options. watch what i proceed to do. at 0:33

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx9izaT7KBI

also these vids are super old.



jwt: you approach shiek by playing fox.

 

[JonaDiaper]

lol so much self promotion

but yea moonwalking im pretty sure we all do it..

 

[outRAGEous]

it's others that promote me by choosing to duel.

 

[halcyon.days]

oh u mean the pc edgehog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0d7AxQdVVE

i dont think falcon can do it

oh wait you said something else nevermind...i read your post wrong....oh well lol

I think it might be possible with every character (I'm probably wrong lol)

I've only tried it with Marth/Fox but who knows.

 

[DrewB008]

everyone can do it, its just really hard for some dudes like falcon

 

[Hax]

i am very good at this game, discuss

 

[Mogwai]

Aziz is really good. He's like, half as fast as Scar, but roughly 50 times as smart. He's also about 3 feet tall and he lulls you into a false sense of security by being somewhere between 3 and 10 years old.

 

[Scar]

everyone can do it, its just really hard for some dudes like falcon

falcon is the worst char in the game

hax is pretty good w/ him tho

 

[MaNg0]

i like to think im good with falcon

 

[Reaver197]

Hey Mango, is it true that you played Cactuar's Fox with your Falcon?

 

[Scar]

Reaver197 please redirect your question to Mango's Captain Falcon thread.

This is your first warning, and please continue to enjoy your Smashboards experience while following the rules, guidelines, and Terms of Use, keeping in mind that the forum remains organized with your cooperation.

 

[j00t]

Hey Scar, I know I just asked this recently but I didn't get any responses so I'll ask you directly now :D

How should you play against Sheik in general? I'm having most of my problems with approaching and baiting her attacks because her tilts are so fast... It seems like once I get a grab I can do some nasty stuff, but getting that grab is so hard. :O

I also like to throw out stomps or knees for approaches but if they read me they can just wavedash backwards -> grab or ftilt, which really sucks. I'm afraid to do an nair approach because it seems like the Sheik can just CC it, so I mostly space my nairs if the Sheik is going aggro on me.

I could always play Fox against Sheik but for me it really depends on who I am comfortable with at the time, and at TO4 I was a lot more comfortable with Falcon.

 

[JonaDiaper]

Reaver197 please redirect your question to Mango's Captain Falcon thread.

This is your first warning, and please continue to enjoy your Smashboards experience while following the rules, guidelines, and Terms of Use, keeping in mind that the forum remains organized with your cooperation.

raaapppeeee

 

[demodemo]

yoo what are some good options for falcon out of shield?

there are some moves that just dont get shield grabbed.. D:

i used to do dair, but some characters like sheik can start hitting me before the hitbox comes out

so i do a bair, but its really impractical lmao. am i generally suppose to wd? or roll? idk

also, does falcon have any defensive strategies other than dash away > move? like i do a lot of dash>dair or dash >bair against my friends when they are trying to approach me.

 

[I.B]

falcon's defensive game sucks. dash more.

 

[j00t]

yoo what are some good options for falcon out of shield?

there are some moves that just dont get shield grabbed.. D:

i used to do dair, but some characters like sheik can start hitting me before the hitbox comes out

so i do a bair, but its really impractical lmao. am i generally suppose to wd? or roll? idk

also, does falcon have any defensive strategies other than dash away > move? like i do a lot of dash>dair or dash >bair against my friends when they are trying to approach me.

nair out of shield can be good.

 

[GooeyBanana]

Ok over the past week or so, I've really come to realize how terrible Falcon's priority can be xD. Nair approaches getting out prioritized by Marth SHFFL Fair, Nair, ftilt, dancing blade, etc gets so old lmao. Any other possible approaches against Marth? Also, what should I do in a situation where I'm shielding and my back is facing Marth, and he's using utilts a lot? I tend to always do something wrong like think I can get a dair off, but it fails every time... Another thing is I must be doing something wrong in my tech chasing. I'll get it off sometimes, but quite often I'll go for the grab off of their roll, and they'll simply spot dodge and yeah. Suckage. One more thing before I go, and that is raptor boosting. I don't quite see much success in having them connect because 80% of the time, they get shielded or spot dodged :S. I try to be sneaky with them and do them out of dash dances or out of L-canceled moves, but it just doesn't seem to work! Definitely would appreciate some help on this stuff :X.

Also, here soon I'll have more vids up of me vs. Marth, Fox, and Ganon so you'll get to see what I'm doing wrong, that is, if you watch the vids even ^^;;.

 

[MaNg0]

Hey Mango, is it true that you played Cactuar's Fox with your Falcon?

I DID

and i won

^_^

<3 cactus

 

[Scar]

How should you play against Sheik in general?

Darkrain's advice to Big D (apparently) was "combo her to death" and "grab her after she ftilts".

This is a good start lmao except it's really hard to grab her ftilt, and comboing to death is something you need to work on. But anyways yeah her moves are faster and better than yours, you need to be smarter than her and outplay her basically all match because her combos are very reliable and **** you very hard.

Approaching is generally a bad idea but if you have to and you know she's gonna wavedash back use the classic weak knee approach, or don't fastfall a nair approach. Yes she can CC **** but don't be afraid until she actually punishes you for it, then don't do it again.

Sheik isn't the only character where first hits are a problem, the better you get you'll find that you can **** really really hard from a hit but Falcon's real problem is manufacturing that hit.

yoo what are some good options for falcon out of shield?

Learning your OOS options is really important to becoming better at Smash. All of your options are entirely situational though, none are strictly better than the others besides roll being way better than spotdodge.

I found that not getting trapped in your shield is very important, and the best way to get mobile again is to WD OOS and then dash away, so when in doubt that's what I do just because aerials and rolls are more punishable.

Nair approaches getting out prioritized by Marth SHFFL Fair, Nair, ftilt, dancing blade, etc gets so old lmao. Any other possible approaches against Marth?

No. Never approach Marth, never challenge him. All these moves flat out beat yours, so wait until he does a move and THEN nair him.

Also, what should I do in a situation where I'm shielding and my back is facing Marth, and he's using utilts a lot?

Roll away like a n00b. Utilt is too slow for him to punish you for the roll, the only way he can do anything is if he predicts your roll and runs towards you, but if he starts that **** then dair oos ***** him.

Another thing is I must be doing something wrong in my tech chasing. I'll get it off sometimes, but quite often I'll go for the grab off of their roll, and they'll simply spot dodge and yeah. Suckage.

You're just doing it too slowly, it takes a lot of time and practice and reaction speed to get good at tech chase regrabs, and even then you need to know what to do when they miss techs etc. If you know you aren't going to get there before the dodge then you can wait for it and punish after, but that requires a lot of restraint and is harder than it sounds.

One more thing before I go, and that is raptor boosting. I don't quite see much success in having them connect because 80% of the time, they get shielded or spot dodged :S.

There are some raptor boosts that are guaranteed, like after most dairs at mid percents, but besides them just never use the move ever. Midwest calls it the "hope for the best," for very obvious reasons.

Raptor boost is best used vs certain people/playstyles, mostly vs the inexperienced who are just trying to learn how to react and space and stuff. Raptor boost is good because it makes that sound and he acts like he's attacking but really he backs up for a few frames, this very often leads to people utilting/fairing/whatever too fast, and then the fB hits them and then you **** them. But honestly it's not worth the trouble.

 

[GooeyBanana]

Alright, thanks for that, I'll definitely try to implement that all into my game ^_^.

 

[Hax]

raptor boost is broken and gives falcon the best techchases in the game IMO. it is just amazing against spacies and other falcons. falco especially, cause even if you miss he's too slow to do anything but laser you. in fact, the only reason i use it against fox's and other falcons (who can punish you if you miss) is because, well; i don't miss.

also, it c0cks you back and combos into knee against sheik and marf unless they have perfect wiggling. use it to dodge grabs

 

[Magus420]

Raptor boost covers every option they have when hitting the ground except for a tech roll in the opposite direction you choose to do it in.

 

[tubes]

Raptor boost covers every option they have when hitting the ground except for a tech roll in the opposite direction you choose to do it in.

so in the end they have 2 options: tech towards you or other.

 

[Ayaz18]

K since this is THE most active melee thread (I think?) I was wondering if anyone could honestly tell me if melee is reviving or not..........cause Brawl is Balls compared to melee.........don't get me wrong, I like the game but I can't play it competitively, cause it's a joke next to melee. So yeah jus inputs regarding the scene would be helpful.

Also Scar, I have a problem with my L-Cancels, I do them at the right time, but hold my shield for a split second. Anyway to get over this defensive playstyle?

 

[NES n00b]

K since this is THE most active melee thread (I think?) I was wondering if anyone could honestly tell me if melee is reviving or not..........cause Brawl is Balls compared to melee.........don't get me wrong, I like the game but I can't play it competitively, cause it's a joke next to melee. So yeah jus inputs regarding the scene would be helpful.

Also Scar, I have a problem with my L-Cancels, I do them at the right time, but hold my shield for a split second. Anyway to get over this defensive playstyle?

If there is a big enough scene for me to play competitively in MS, there should be enough people in Ontario for you to play against. Canada seems to be pretty active in the Melee scene.

 

[Ayaz18]

If there is a big enough scene for me to play competitively in MS, there should be enough people in Ontario for you to play against. Canada seems to be pretty active in the Melee scene.

yeah, I know the GTA scene is, and Niagara is making their way to being o.k but in terms of huge tournaments and hype, is melee becoming even with brawl?

 

[MaNg0]

we can try =D

 

[tubes]

I have a problem with my L-Cancels, I do them at the right time, but hold my shield for a split second. Anyway to get over this defensive playstyle?

push buttons faster

 

[strangely mundane]

Also Scar, I have a problem with my L-Cancels, I do them at the right time, but hold my shield for a split second. Anyway to get over this defensive playstyle?

You don't have press L all the way down to L-cancel, just press it as if you are going to lightshield and you should be able to press it fast enough that you don't shield. If you still have trouble let go of L faster.