CaptainNanD0
Smash Journeyman
Tom R is Marth1? whaaat
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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]
- Thread starter Scar
- Start date
Juggleguy
Smash Grimer
lol, Nando with the epiphany
Midwest Falcon power rankings in my opinion (looking at tourneys in the past six months or so)
1. TomR
2. Bigy
3. BigD
but they are very close, and if BigD keeps placing well like he just did "out of retirement" at SG2 then he could possibly top the list
Midwest Falcon power rankings in my opinion (looking at tourneys in the past six months or so)
1. TomR
2. Bigy
3. BigD
but they are very close, and if BigD keeps placing well like he just did "out of retirement" at SG2 then he could possibly top the list
i had to use falco to beat rat at sg2 haha
tom r is definitely better than both me and bigy, i think me and bigy can go back and forth
vro is really good vs sheik though, way better than me at that matchup. i think his marth is his best character though by a longshot
tom r is definitely better than both me and bigy, i think me and bigy can go back and forth
vro is really good vs sheik though, way better than me at that matchup. i think his marth is his best character though by a longshot
legion598
Smash Ace
I can handle his marth but not his falco. of course I suck really bad against falco....
If you cant beat em with falcon then whats the point of it all?
If you cant beat em with falcon then whats the point of it all?
Tomacawk
Smash Master
vro is equally good with falcon falco and marf imo
he's mad good, regardless
and the coolest smasher in the world
he's mad good, regardless
and the coolest smasher in the world
GooeyBanana
Smash Lord
Hmmm...so if someone is playing Sheik just to be like..."Lololol tilts are broked"...would a suitable strategy be just to run in, CC, jc grab?
And holy friggin cow, what in the eff are my options when I'm right next to the ledge(back facing the edge) in my shield, and I'm playing....Fox/Falco/Marth/Sheik? Fox and Falco just do their silly shine -> aerial shenanigans, and Marth & Sheik kinda just stand there and wait for me to do something or just grab and **** me. All I can think of is spot dodge, roll, jump OoS, or possibly wavedash OoS to grab the edge, but that's hella risky. This situation is by far the most annoying of all, because 9 times out of 10, I get punished for whatever option I choose and end up dying =(....
Refresher question...Smash DI(just simply holding the control stick in the direction...optional smashing of the C-stick in that direction if I feel like it) wave shines AWAY until near the ledge, then Smash DI in to grab the ledge or out -> recover depending on the situation, correct? For some reason, I can not stop crouch cancelling waveshines >_<...It's kind of like when I hit R instinctively to wall tech even when I'm just being hit with a meteor spike, so I fail to meteor cancel it.
Fox lunging at you with nair/dair...I know you can dair OoS if they hit high on your shield with nair, but what would you do if they hit low on your shield with either nair or dair? Roll/spotdodge? I need to get better at telling if they're high nairs or not too...I keep thinking one when be high when it was actually low and do I dair OoS and the Fox is utilting at that time because that's what he always does when he nairs through my shield and ends up with our backs next to each other >_<
Marth...in general. I dthrow them, they DI away, I chase thinking they'll just go for the tech once they hit the ground....so I chase to where they're going and then get hit with a fair T_T Next time, I figure they're going to do the same thing, so I bait the fair, but this time they actually do tech instead and I = dun goofed again. Is there a sure way to tell if they're going to be able to fair or not when they DI a dthrow away at low %s? Like, if they're able to fair, does that mean they're not COMPLETELY DI'ing away as much as they could, but it still appears that they're DI'ing away somewhat? Starting to become real bitter about the Marth matchup >_< Seems like I crouch cancel the wrong things too xP
Yay Gooey wall of questions =D! Really starting to wish I'd start punishing silly habits better xP
And holy friggin cow, what in the eff are my options when I'm right next to the ledge(back facing the edge) in my shield, and I'm playing....Fox/Falco/Marth/Sheik? Fox and Falco just do their silly shine -> aerial shenanigans, and Marth & Sheik kinda just stand there and wait for me to do something or just grab and **** me. All I can think of is spot dodge, roll, jump OoS, or possibly wavedash OoS to grab the edge, but that's hella risky. This situation is by far the most annoying of all, because 9 times out of 10, I get punished for whatever option I choose and end up dying =(....
Refresher question...Smash DI(just simply holding the control stick in the direction...optional smashing of the C-stick in that direction if I feel like it) wave shines AWAY until near the ledge, then Smash DI in to grab the ledge or out -> recover depending on the situation, correct? For some reason, I can not stop crouch cancelling waveshines >_<...It's kind of like when I hit R instinctively to wall tech even when I'm just being hit with a meteor spike, so I fail to meteor cancel it.
Fox lunging at you with nair/dair...I know you can dair OoS if they hit high on your shield with nair, but what would you do if they hit low on your shield with either nair or dair? Roll/spotdodge? I need to get better at telling if they're high nairs or not too...I keep thinking one when be high when it was actually low and do I dair OoS and the Fox is utilting at that time because that's what he always does when he nairs through my shield and ends up with our backs next to each other >_<
Marth...in general. I dthrow them, they DI away, I chase thinking they'll just go for the tech once they hit the ground....so I chase to where they're going and then get hit with a fair T_T Next time, I figure they're going to do the same thing, so I bait the fair, but this time they actually do tech instead and I = dun goofed again. Is there a sure way to tell if they're going to be able to fair or not when they DI a dthrow away at low %s? Like, if they're able to fair, does that mean they're not COMPLETELY DI'ing away as much as they could, but it still appears that they're DI'ing away somewhat? Starting to become real bitter about the Marth matchup >_< Seems like I crouch cancel the wrong things too xP
Yay Gooey wall of questions =D! Really starting to wish I'd start punishing silly habits better xP
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Going to answer this because nobody else is.
There is no "best" way since how you can punish LHDL is based on stage position, and what stage you're playing on.
If Falco does low/mid height LHDL you can punish with double-jump aerials.
If Falco does a high LHDL (to catch double jump aerials) you can punish it with a variety of crouch cancel antics.
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
gooey. TLDR, break it up into parts.
legion598
Smash Ace
thats a huge ****in post Dave. Ill just deal with the second question cuz its easy. Do not get into that situation in the first place. If you do ur kinda ****ed. Against fox and falco I just keep my shield up and hope the shield push knocks me onto the ledge so I can do some tricky ****. Probly still die anyway, best thing is probly to roll or maybe full hop> as many hops as you need to get over them. Chances are though ur going to take some damage or die
GooeyBanana
Smash Lord
Muh bad. Usually when I have questions, they come in spurts xP
D
Deleted member
Guest
1. u can just waveland in place in front of them and grab them after a tilt. do it so you aren't in immediately risk of a grab and preferably at lower percents since you can still duck/punish them if they choose to dash attack
if you are too close to them though for whatever reason you can crouch cancel their tilt and **** them. or get grabbed...
2. it's very important to mix it up for whatever situation, definitely including the one you posted here. If you can't mix it up properly your intentions are too obvious, your opponent is dam good, you have horrible luck, or you are not using all the available options
I almost always buffer full jump backwards out of shield in your situation btw, most people suk dik at punishing it for some reason
if your opponent catches onto you ALWAYS doing something when pressured, they may spazz out and try to punish a roll or a jump so just sitting there helps too (not often but **** when it happens)
sometimes you should consider rolling inside and taking the hit, but at least you live.
you can also do the run. I sometimes run past them after i get on from the edge and it works more than it doesnt work cuz people don't expect it
if your opponent absolutely sux balls at punishing one option just keep doing it
3. for getting out of shines I smash DI extremely hard on the control stick, most people try to up-smash me or waveshine but they whiff. it's the 64 training i got even though i hate that game more than isai hates melee
another semi-related topic is when you recover onto the edge, a lot of foxes love to d-air, waveshine, up-smash. You can smash DI hard enough that their shine won't connect after the d-air
4. if a fox is in your grill you want to reset by getting away safely instead of trying to fight back most of the time. most foxes will run at you, n-air past your shield and b-air or n-air shine n-air like a homoe over and over again
mediocre foxes will simply try to pressure you but not think about when you are going to roll/wavedash out/buffer jump away. if your opponent is one of these foxes then you can pretty much roll to safety
better foxes keep track of your habits, mix up your escapes to keep them guessing (harder said than done). when i faced a rusty lucky i rolled the first 4-5 times he got in but stopped as soon as he started to charge smash moves and buffer jumped, wavedashed out of shield instead
i avoid the ghey fox shield pressure dilemma most of the time by spamming falcon's gayest move, n-air followed by pivot n-air's b-airs if they are too close. if you pull it off well it'll frustrate/**** almost every fox. Top tier foxes will still find a way in though or camp perfectly
5. i suk dik against marth
--
basically, just know what your opponent is capable of, if hes adaptive or not. never change it up against a n00b. roll all day if he absolutely cannot punish rolls
i think spot-dodging should almost never be used as falcon.
crouch-cancelling waveshines is good since it gives you less stun and allows you to buffer-roll away
---
sorta want to travel maybe in a month or so, cali tourneys only are starting to get old
if you are too close to them though for whatever reason you can crouch cancel their tilt and **** them. or get grabbed...
2. it's very important to mix it up for whatever situation, definitely including the one you posted here. If you can't mix it up properly your intentions are too obvious, your opponent is dam good, you have horrible luck, or you are not using all the available options
I almost always buffer full jump backwards out of shield in your situation btw, most people suk dik at punishing it for some reason
if your opponent catches onto you ALWAYS doing something when pressured, they may spazz out and try to punish a roll or a jump so just sitting there helps too (not often but **** when it happens)
sometimes you should consider rolling inside and taking the hit, but at least you live.
you can also do the run. I sometimes run past them after i get on from the edge and it works more than it doesnt work cuz people don't expect it
if your opponent absolutely sux balls at punishing one option just keep doing it
3. for getting out of shines I smash DI extremely hard on the control stick, most people try to up-smash me or waveshine but they whiff. it's the 64 training i got even though i hate that game more than isai hates melee
another semi-related topic is when you recover onto the edge, a lot of foxes love to d-air, waveshine, up-smash. You can smash DI hard enough that their shine won't connect after the d-air
4. if a fox is in your grill you want to reset by getting away safely instead of trying to fight back most of the time. most foxes will run at you, n-air past your shield and b-air or n-air shine n-air like a homoe over and over again
mediocre foxes will simply try to pressure you but not think about when you are going to roll/wavedash out/buffer jump away. if your opponent is one of these foxes then you can pretty much roll to safety
better foxes keep track of your habits, mix up your escapes to keep them guessing (harder said than done). when i faced a rusty lucky i rolled the first 4-5 times he got in but stopped as soon as he started to charge smash moves and buffer jumped, wavedashed out of shield instead
i avoid the ghey fox shield pressure dilemma most of the time by spamming falcon's gayest move, n-air followed by pivot n-air's b-airs if they are too close. if you pull it off well it'll frustrate/**** almost every fox. Top tier foxes will still find a way in though or camp perfectly
5. i suk dik against marth
--
basically, just know what your opponent is capable of, if hes adaptive or not. never change it up against a n00b. roll all day if he absolutely cannot punish rolls
i think spot-dodging should almost never be used as falcon.
crouch-cancelling waveshines is good since it gives you less stun and allows you to buffer-roll away
---
sorta want to travel maybe in a month or so, cali tourneys only are starting to get old
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
come to B.E.A.S.T.
the thread isnt up here yet but it should be soon
the thread isnt up here yet but it should be soon
Tomacawk
Smash Master
thank you for an outstanding post s2j. Maybe I'm just too high but I feel that I'm much more prepared for HDR this saturday, working harder to disguise my intention and your fox shield pressure reads
only thing I have to add is that good foxes will combo you after a waveshine even if you cc'd. I'm not sure if it reduces your knockback or not (I know it reduces the distance you travel), but I know things still combo
only thing I have to add is that good foxes will combo you after a waveshine even if you cc'd. I'm not sure if it reduces your knockback or not (I know it reduces the distance you travel), but I know things still combo
GooeyBanana
Smash Lord
Wow, **** post S2J =D
Just one thing that's got me thinking now, and that's my idea of Smash DI'ing. I've heard many iterations of it, and recently I've been informed that it's either A.) Repeatedly hitting the C-stick in a direction or B.) Holding the control stick in a direction before the hit actually connects. I'm now assuming that B is just ASDI, whereas A is SDI, but you could do the same thing with the control stick AKA smash it repeatedly in a direction(If this is true, wouldn't that mean you could ASDI the initial hit, then release from the holding position just repeatedly smash the control stick in the direction you're wanting to DI?) I swear, DI is by far the most confusing concept for me in this game when it comes to SDI xD
Also, I've now realized how important buffering rolls & jumps is, your post just reinforced that. But you said buffer jumped, wavedashed OoS...I'm assuming you meant like buffer jumping out of your shield, but wavedashing right afterward? So like the input would be holding L/R, holding up on the C-stick, then hitting diagonally on the control stick then wavedashing with L/R? If so, dayum xD But I'll take your word for it so long as I interpretted what you said correctly. If this is correct though, I'm gonna have to force myself to learn how to shield with L...I do everything(including wavedash OoS) with R, but that has wayyyy too much action going on for just my right hand alone to handle xD
Just one thing that's got me thinking now, and that's my idea of Smash DI'ing. I've heard many iterations of it, and recently I've been informed that it's either A.) Repeatedly hitting the C-stick in a direction or B.) Holding the control stick in a direction before the hit actually connects. I'm now assuming that B is just ASDI, whereas A is SDI, but you could do the same thing with the control stick AKA smash it repeatedly in a direction(If this is true, wouldn't that mean you could ASDI the initial hit, then release from the holding position just repeatedly smash the control stick in the direction you're wanting to DI?) I swear, DI is by far the most confusing concept for me in this game when it comes to SDI xD
Also, I've now realized how important buffering rolls & jumps is, your post just reinforced that. But you said buffer jumped, wavedashed OoS...I'm assuming you meant like buffer jumping out of your shield, but wavedashing right afterward? So like the input would be holding L/R, holding up on the C-stick, then hitting diagonally on the control stick then wavedashing with L/R? If so, dayum xD But I'll take your word for it so long as I interpretted what you said correctly. If this is correct though, I'm gonna have to force myself to learn how to shield with L...I do everything(including wavedash OoS) with R, but that has wayyyy too much action going on for just my right hand alone to handle xD
D
Deleted member
Guest
for smash DI i only use control stick and fuken mash in one directon really hard when i am shined
i do use c-stick though for a lot of other things like when i want to DI the best possible way but c-stick DI another direction for complete optimal DI
i duno the intricacies of DI, something u should ask Magus420 about
for the buffer jump, wavelanding i meant those as separate options buffer jumping to wavedashing sounds difficult
i do everything with R, i think it works fine if u practice enuf
i do use c-stick though for a lot of other things like when i want to DI the best possible way but c-stick DI another direction for complete optimal DI
i duno the intricacies of DI, something u should ask Magus420 about
for the buffer jump, wavelanding i meant those as separate options buffer jumping to wavedashing sounds difficult
i do everything with R, i think it works fine if u practice enuf
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
whats the best way to do early full jump uairs with full momentum forward? (ie with the uair early in the jump)
example of what im talking about is 2:30 in this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVOU9GgLqqU
example of what im talking about is 2:30 in this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVOU9GgLqqU
mers
Smash Ace
Run, jump with x/y, quickly c-stick the uair.
I used to have trouble getting the uair out quickly enough, but if you practice a little its not that bad. I'm now running into the problem of doing them too fast and JC usmashing.
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
lol scars wall-jumps shenanigans on Yoshis are completely ridiculous.
Tomacawk
Smash Master
i claw for this. i also claw uthrow knees.
legion598
Smash Ace
I claw for those. Like I just run and hit X with the side of my index finger and C-stick Uair. If you know ur gonna do it at the end of ur combo than it shouldnt be too mentally taxing to go claw for just that. This is really good on Peach and pretty good on marth and shiek. dont know the exact percents I just do this when the opponent is rising from my Uairs so I know their DIing up it also catches second jumps. On peach however this should get her even if shes not DIing in
oh lol didnt see all these posts
oh lol didnt see all these posts
D
Deleted member
Guest
full jump with y, hold up and press a and fast fall c-stick up
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
this is what ive been doing to, the problem is i either start holding up to early and dont get full forward momentum or i tap up to far and accidently double jump. guess i just need to practice stick control.
i guess switching to claw would be the most consistent way, but it seems a bit unpractical to me
Bamesy
Smash Ace
I don't even know what I do LOL
I just play.
Pretty sure someone commented how I mix up A and Cstick use for the same things (I think it was Pika Uairs OOS) almost randomly once. Probably still do that.
Whatever my fingers feel like doing. hahaha
Nice S2J
I LLOOOOOOOVE how you mentioned WD OOS as one of the first things in your post.
WD OOS in place (not going anywhere) to me is by FAR the best thing OOS if you're in one of those 'false pressure' situations. Just move FAST to give them less time to react, whether it's jumping, attacking, rolling, WDing, whatever.
If you see yourself even for a second in that situation, do something quick. Quick doing can include doing nothing though. Just make sure it's an intentional nothing instead of a fear nothing.
I just play.
Pretty sure someone commented how I mix up A and Cstick use for the same things (I think it was Pika Uairs OOS) almost randomly once. Probably still do that.
Whatever my fingers feel like doing. hahaha
Nice S2J
I LLOOOOOOOVE how you mentioned WD OOS as one of the first things in your post.
WD OOS in place (not going anywhere) to me is by FAR the best thing OOS if you're in one of those 'false pressure' situations. Just move FAST to give them less time to react, whether it's jumping, attacking, rolling, WDing, whatever.
If you see yourself even for a second in that situation, do something quick. Quick doing can include doing nothing though. Just make sure it's an intentional nothing instead of a fear nothing.
how do i play against good falcos guise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQTPgmMthIE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWho1cnaUIc
Was having pretty fun in the set though =)
could probably have made the matches closer if i'd played safer. oh well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQTPgmMthIE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWho1cnaUIc
Was having pretty fun in the set though =)
could probably have made the matches closer if i'd played safer. oh well
leffen
Smash Champion
Pools were so bad at skn2, there wasnt any rivality and everyone just fked around as a result :/
Didnt watch much of the matches, cw plays the matchup like friendlies ( tho could very well b his tourney style, cw is awesum leik dat ).
You also seem very lost in the matchup and general pointers etc other cf mains would do better
Didnt watch much of the matches, cw plays the matchup like friendlies ( tho could very well b his tourney style, cw is awesum leik dat ).
You also seem very lost in the matchup and general pointers etc other cf mains would do better
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
imo the best way to play against falco is NOT TO COUNTER-PICK CALLEW TO FD.
lololol.
no but seriously. FD is an awful choice vs falco.
lololol.
no but seriously. FD is an awful choice vs falco.
i was fooling around dawg
literally said it to him as i took him there, lets just have fun, idc
Da Shuffla
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,810
What IS a good stage vs Falco?
And general matchup advice.
All I know is that Bair is pretty good.
And general matchup advice.
All I know is that Bair is pretty good.
CanISmash
Smash Lord
fd is mad good. chain grabs.
and platforms help falco 20x more than they help fox so you take away that advantage.
and platforms help falco 20x more than they help fox so you take away that advantage.
this is a falcon thread..?
ETWIST51294
Smash Hero
Actually, i have to agree. Stages with platforms and smaller spaces suck against Falco, but on FD you can just SH/powershield/DJ or basically Mario your way through lazors. And when you get a grab, DONE *****. **** DAT GAY AZZ BIRD.
the only neutral i think is better is DL.
the only neutral i think is better is DL.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Or just Falcon sucks in general. =P
ryankam10
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 279
Hey guys,
how does falcon waveland from side platforms to upper platforms on yoshi's/battlefield so nicely like jeff does? By nice wavelands I mean the sexy ones that go all the way, I figured you can run off the edge of yoshis and immediately jump backwards airdodge to waveland the side platforms perfectly, how does it work for side => to top platforms?
Do you run off the side platforms and immediately jump + airdodge or do you have to delay your jump (fall a bit fof the side platforms,in which case I would have to learn the timing for how long to wait before jumping)
how does falcon waveland from side platforms to upper platforms on yoshi's/battlefield so nicely like jeff does? By nice wavelands I mean the sexy ones that go all the way, I figured you can run off the edge of yoshis and immediately jump backwards airdodge to waveland the side platforms perfectly, how does it work for side => to top platforms?
Do you run off the side platforms and immediately jump + airdodge or do you have to delay your jump (fall a bit fof the side platforms,in which case I would have to learn the timing for how long to wait before jumping)
ETWIST51294
Smash Hero
LOL at Kage stating the obvious. IIRC Ganon sucks worse.
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
im pretty sure i just run off and jump right away, im not sure if this is the only way.
also DL and BF > FD.
just di shines off the stage. the spike wont kill you unless ur at a ridic percentage if ur above top plat height. also i thought the same thing (platforms are bad) vs a good falco, I struck yoshis instead of FD and got 4-stocked.