Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[halcyon.days]

Why does SS counterpick on Brinstar?

 

[Keblerelf]

lava combos and it helps his recovery abit?



I'm just guessing.

 

[Kike_Ichigo]

Yes and is One of the best Optiosn for C. Falcon... one of the most problems for CF is the Recovery... and with the Lava + Falcon Kick... It would make you more unpredicteble... IMO is Good I use it sometimes when Im fighting some Player that doesnt have bad Normal-Stage

 

[Scar]

lava combos and it helps his recovery abit?

Yeah both of those.

 

[Scar]

Scar! I need help with the gentleman

What do you do to achieve it's awesomeness?

The best and most useful Gentleman is the one ISAI used, it's called the rapid gentleman. You MUST hit the other person with at least one of the first 2 jabs for it to work.

If you're going to hit them or their sheild, to do the rapid gentleman you hit A, fully release it, A, fully release, A and hold. Do this as fast as you can. It should come out almost as fast as tapping A, but make sure you release the button.

While still holding A, you can cancel the rapid jabs by shielding, running, jumping, etc. I have done gentleman > gentleman before but I'm not sure how, I think I crouched and then repeated. Vs Marth at like 80% gentleman>knee combos against certain DIs, and gentleman at the ledge>drop zone works A LOT.

 

[halcyon.days]

How come when you raptor boost and your opponent shields, maybe about half the time they'll be in range to shield grab you, and the other half they won't?

 

[Tero.]

How come when you raptor boost and your opponent shields, maybe about half the time they'll be in range to shield grab you, and the other half they won't?

Shield DI (and some other factors too )

 

[Scar]

yeah mostly shield DI

 

[Tero.]

It's pretty much unknown tho, so lets not talk about it

 

[G@BE]

Help for the marth question


What i like to do

1. Bait there forward air. Like most marth will do a full jumped f-air and then a f-air coming down. I try and bait and grab after the lag of the dropping f-air (or shield grab this f-air)

2. If marth is camping you with f-air to up-tilt. Try and guess when the up tilt is coming and do a running down tilt at them. You are below the range of you getting hit by the up tilt and they get swatted with your sweeping kick :D

3. I like to grab and up throw alot in this match up. I like doing up-air's and the always hit. Sure fire moves :D

 

[Scar]

After about 30% uthrow uair combos, but before that you'll usually eat a fair > grab, which sucks. Bait out the fair and regrab. Thx g-reg.

 

[halcyon.days]

Shield DI (and some other factors too )

Excuse my noobness but what is Shield DI?

Also, the matchup vs. Fox. Near the beginning I should be doing dthrow techchase. At around 70~ish percent I should uthrow once I grab -> dtilt and combos?

 

[Scar]

Excuse my noobness but what is Shield DI?

When you tilt the control stick just enough so that you don't roll/jump/dodge you are DIing in shield. If you hit the stick harder (like normal DI) while in hitstun, your character moves accordingly.

Also, the matchup vs. Fox. Near the beginning I should be doing dthrow techchase. At around 70~ish percent I should uthrow once I grab -> dtilt and combos?

Uthrow and dthrow are entirely interchangeable at lower percents depending on your style. Some people swear by uthrow at later percents, I like to dthrow a lot but I guess at higher percents the opponent can DI dthrows much more.

At 90% you can uthrow fsmash then edgeguard, and at 102% or so you can uthrow knee and they die. If Fox DI's in vs uthrow @ 70% then dtilt works often.

 

[Kike_Ichigo]

I do more Dthrow and the nair > My Imagination... The really difficult with Marth is the Priority that he have with his Sword... but is an Combo Player most of the Time...

 

[halcyon.days]

I have lots of trouble doing a knee RIGHT out of a jump. It makes me miss a few knees in my matchups, and every once in awhile, kills.

I'm not used to kneeing with the c-stick but I take it that's how I should start?

 

[JonaDiaper]

youll always get your first dtilt after a u-throw vs fox. then you regrab and do something else.

also i think u-throw is easier to tech chase. it gives you a little bit more time to stay still and relax a bit, instead of just having to guess right after you d-throw. thats just me tho.

 

[halcyon.days]

Scar! I need help with the gentleman

What do you do to achieve it's awesomeness?

I had the same problem but I found a way to do it 100% of the time.

A -> A -> A+Z (simultaneously).

Just be careful that you don't hit Z too early or else you'll rgba instead.

 

[Magus420]

Holding Z is the same thing as holding A and canceling it with a shield.

A->A->A & hold->Move/Crouch/Jump/Shield/Attack to cancel the jab window->Let go of A after the window is canceled

...is the best way, as it does exactly what is required to cancel it and leaves you with the most options.

One thing I love to do is fast gentleman->instant dash JC grab at low percents. It works very well if you do it right, and I do it out of u-throws on semi-fastfallers at very low damage before you can combo them with aerials from the throw. I do A->A->A & hold->quarter circle forward to up to dash and immediately jump->let go of A immediately into pressing Z. I find it easier than trying to jump cancel grab with X/Y while holding A in that situation.

Finding the exact point you can begin to act out of the gentleman takes some getting used to though.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

How escapeable is gentleman->grab? Can they spot-dodge/roll out of it? (assuming they react fast enough)

 

[Magus420]

It depends a lot on their DI and damage, the character, and whether you hit them on the ground or above the ground. If they go really low and fall fast enough they'll land and can act too soon, and if they go high and are floaty enough/started from high enough they'll be able to jump out. If you hit them at low damage out of a shieldgrab attempt and do it at full speed it will generally work since they usually won't be DIing it well to avoid it.

 

[Cactuarz]

So, I was playing around on green greens with captain faclon and I noticed when i was trying to scar jump on the sides that it would auto wall jump me if i pressed away from the edge while still hanging on.
I had fun with this and rejumped into any attack i wanted cause of the high jumping that you get. It seems as if this auto wall jump doesn't work with other charactars though and only works on some edges (green greens, the middle edge in hyrule temple, the big rock in pokemon stadium, MK1) but I wanna know what stages can I do this on that are tourney legal, the only ones i found without having any stages unlocked was green greens and pokemon stadium.

If this isn't supposed to happen it may be because i have v. 0

Oh, and is green greens a good lvl for falcon? if so against what charactars?

 

[halcyon.days]

So, I was playing around on green greens with captain faclon and I noticed when i was trying to scar jump on the sides that it would auto wall jump me if i pressed away from the edge while still hanging on.
I had fun with this and rejumped into any attack i wanted cause of the high jumping that you get. It seems as if this auto wall jump doesn't work with other charactars though and only works on some edges (green greens, the middle edge in hyrule temple, the big rock in pokemon stadium, MK1) but I wanna know what stages can I do this on that are tourney legal, the only ones i found without having any stages unlocked was green greens and pokemon stadium.

If this isn't supposed to happen it may be because i have v. 0

Oh, and is green greens a good lvl for falcon? if so against what charactars?

I'm just going to throw this out there and say pretty much every character except for Fox. (and maybe Marth)

 

[Scar]

Magus knows more about the gentleman than I do so listen to him, but the one I do works all of the time and it's fast so I'm pretty happy with it. I'm pretty sure he does the same one.

If this isn't supposed to happen it may be because i have v. 0

Oh, and is green greens a good lvl for falcon? if so against what charactars?

Yeah this happens on a lot of stages, but Green Greens is the only legal one. It MIGHT happen somewhere on RC but if it does it's not even a significant portion of the stage.

I like to CP Green Greens, knee kills at very low %s and there is a lot of room to run around. Bombs are gay so watch out for them. Expect the blocks to gimp your recovery at least once a match.

I have lots of trouble doing a knee RIGHT out of a jump. It makes me miss a few knees in my matchups, and every once in awhile, kills.

I'm not used to kneeing with the c-stick but I take it that's how I should start?

Yes, that's how you should start. While you're at it, learn to shffl knees in place and while retreating. Get all the timings and stick motions down. Also, make sure you can do it fast facing both different directions.

youll always get your first dtilt after a u-throw vs fox. then you regrab and do something else.

Regrab does not work vs away DI. In that case uthrow>dtilt has no followup, which is why I try not to dtilt anymore unless it's at the ledge.

 

[Ja]

I would put the handicap up and the damage ratio down and shffl nairs at ganon. If that's for your timing then perfect. If you want timing for repeated nairs, I used to go into practice mode and set like Link's damage to 20 or so and then fB>nair>nair>nair him.

I guess I wasn't being clear. On anyone but ganon the first kick of the nair goes over their head (whiffs). I'm assuming that the nair's first kick isn't supposed to hit everyone, such as pichu. But, you're supposed to get both kicks off on some people right? Which characters should be hit by both kicks of the shffled nair when they are just standing there?

 

[JonaDiaper]

Regrab does not work vs away DI. In that case uthrow>dtilt has no followup, which is why I try not to dtilt anymore unless it's at the ledge.

yea thats true but if you hit with it there like a 80 percent chance theyre going to miss the tech. then you can go ss or just knee them

 

[CanISmash]

not really if they are experienced and have seen it before........ they'd call it the dark rain combo and... tech.

 

[Scar]

I guess I wasn't being clear. On anyone but ganon the first kick of the nair goes over their head (whiffs). I'm assuming that the nair's first kick isn't supposed to hit everyone, such as pichu. But, you're supposed to get both kicks off on some people right? Which characters should be hit by both kicks of the shffled nair when they are just standing there?

I guess I don't understand your question because you're being extremely broad. Both kicks are "supposed to" hit situationally. If you ever hit with the first, you want to hit with the second almost all the time.

To answer your question as best I can, nair is "supposed to" miss most characters with the first kick. The second one is the one with all the knockback anyways so you usually want to hit with that one and combo it into grab.

Nair as an approach will catch players out of jumps and then hit with both kicks, but otherwise you're only trying to get a first hit and run away afterwards anyways.

yea thats true but if you hit with it there like a 80 percent chance theyre going to miss the tech. then you can go ss or just knee them

This is only true for inexperienced players. The more you do it, the more they tech it. Cactuar will DI away and tech it every single time.

btw lulz bandwagon

 

[I.B]

Cactuar will DI away and tech it every single time.

****ing Cactus

 

[Ja]

I guess I don't understand your question because you're being extremely broad. Both kicks are "supposed to" hit situationally. If you ever hit with the first, you want to hit with the second almost all the time.

To answer your question as best I can, nair is "supposed to" miss most characters with the first kick. The second one is the one with all the knockback anyways so you usually want to hit with that one and combo it into grab.

Nair as an approach will catch players out of jumps and then hit with both kicks, but otherwise you're only trying to get a first hit and run away afterwards anyways.

Okay, I think I almost understand. Should the first kick miss on a standing peach or a standing marth?

 

[DrewB008]

dude just do the nair as soon as you jump, worry more about the second hit than the first.

 

[Dogysamich]

Yo.

I've already asked this question in here (might have been g-reg's thread, i dunno), but im just curious if I get some new stuff I never thought about. Hell, im going to word it different and hope I get something good.

__

How does capfal fight Doc? Like, what all does capfal have to look out for? Can Doc stop capfal's nair? Does capfal have guarenteed throw->knee's on doc?

 

[I.B]

definitely be careful not to get grabbed

 

[Dogysamich]

I meant besides that, i kinda know that one.

Hell, that's the only chance i've really stood against capfals thusfar.

 

[Oskurito]

nair and uair ***** doc, nair can stop pills if well spaced.

And no throws dont guarentee combos or a knee, you've gotta hope your opponent screws up his DI or something... I think doc can just nair out of d-throw or upthrow everytime, but if you could upthrow into full jumped double uair and trade hits for the combo ...

On the other hand, doc can and will **** falcon with just grabs. lol

 

[JonaDiaper]

no down throw knee works after like 85 percent, gaurunteed, you just gotta follow his di.

pills arent a problem if we're being gay.(just nair approaching)

bair is all doc has on falcon (besides chaingrab) so if you spam bair your probly good.

falcon needs to start out the life with like dair>grab , grab, or raptor boost. so i guess you could watch for those.
try to out space the nair's (run away from them) even tho thats almost impossible.

docs jab>dsmash or jab>jc grab is confusing when you mix those up its hard to know which one is coming next, so we either stay sheilding and get grabbed or get our shield hit too far to do anything

 

[Scar]

nair and uair ***** doc, nair can stop pills if well spaced.

Yes, nair destroys Doc.

I think doc can just nair out of d-throw or upthrow everytime

Uthrow he can sometimes nair out, Doc can't do anything vs dthrow, he is combo fodder at any and all percents.

Yes if you're playing Doc you want to grab CF, but you have very few options vs spaced nairs so that should be something fun for you to figure out.

 

[Kike_Ichigo]

The problem is the Up-B from Doc is almost thge combo breaker for the Dthrow so... you have too mix both of them Uthrow and Dthrow... cause Dthrow is more the opening for a Knee or a Nair > Knee but the Uthrow let you do Uair twice and keep going.... and another tip... In like... 60-68% the Uthrow Let you do a Knee with too full jump... I have a video when I do that... cause most of the Kill is with Dthrow and the Up-B is the breaker of that Throw > Knee

 

[Scar]

Yeah upB is gay, which is why I don't really rely on throw>knees and instead just nairspam vs Doc.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

love nair spam...btw i realized something this week...i love falcon... i want to second falcon.

 

[Kike_Ichigo]

Against a Doc is good too look for a Mistake cause the Spam Pils is like you onl have too spam Nair... and if you want you could get more close for him too make pressure and when the Doc try too hit you with a Nair just Jump Back and Grab Throw Fast for less DI...