Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[Zephyr]

Which characters should get hit with both hits of the shffled nair? Right now I miss with the first hit on pretty much everyone but ganondorf.

My question is how do you miss the second hit on Ganon? o_0

 

[JonaDiaper]

he never said he missed any hits on ganon.

ultimate fighter finale nowwww

 

[Zephyr]

whoa misread

oh well

 

[Ja]

Everyone besides floaties who DI up? I mean how do you miss? lol

I mean against CPUs with no DI. I press it too fast so the first hit comes out above their head. I'm not really sure on what's the ideal timing for shffl nair, so if someone could tell me the shortest character that I should get both hits on with shffl nair I can fix my timing.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

\
Kneeing their shield is a pretty good idea because the hitstun is too much for them to shieldgrab, do this to apply pressure.

omg, azen's falcon vs. IC's secret is revealed.

We need a list of what characters can not shield grab which of falcon's aerials. I know jiggs can't grab bair.

 

[Brentos4o8]

What stages are Captain Falcon's advantage/disadvantage?

 

[G@BE]

OverB spam Ic's


It's what i used to try and do on wobbles... it kinda worked well :/

The stages i like to play are

FoD
Dreamland
Kongo Jungle


avoid
......... jungle japes? lol
Falcon is pretty decent everywhere... you just need to learn the stage.

 

[Captain Grenade]

OverB spam Ic's

It's what i used to try and do on wobbles... it kinda worked well :/

if you spam raptor boost against ic's, they're gonna shield it then blizz grab you.
at least that's what choknater does. lol.
you have to space ridiculously well in efforts to avoid getting grabbed.
(since we all know what happens when ic's grab falcon... lol)
i suggest spamming bairs and dairs while being sure to land behind climbers so they can't shield grab.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Scar you said earlier in this thread that SHFFL Stomp OOS is a good strat vs mid-level fox's (i think you did... lol). Would this strat work vs a fox who Nair's my shield and then pressures with Utilt aswell?

 

[Captain Grenade]

shield pressure with utilt???
i used to try that and get punished hella bad for it.
if they're spamming utilt to your shield you can just shield grab, right?
and if they're behind you, you can always reverse upB oos.

 

[Bil]

The Machine. Use it wisely.

 

[RaynEX]

If they utilt your shield just block and grab. I can only imagine that if you try to dair oos shield when he utilts you'll eat the utilt and get combo'd.

I know this an old question but how the **** do you do the gentlemen consistently? I can't do it for ****. lol

 

[JBM falcon08]

A A A Hold on the last one, practice the timing of which you can do it to release faster.

works everytime for me.

 

[Scar]

I mean against CPUs with no DI. I press it too fast so the first hit comes out above their head. I'm not really sure on what's the ideal timing for shffl nair, so if someone could tell me the shortest character that I should get both hits on with shffl nair I can fix my timing.

I would put the handicap up and the damage ratio down and shffl nairs at ganon. If that's for your timing then perfect. If you want timing for repeated nairs, I used to go into practice mode and set like Link's damage to 20 or so and then fB>nair>nair>nair him.

Scar you said earlier in this thread that SHFFL Stomp OOS is a good strat vs mid-level fox's (i think you did... lol). Would this strat work vs a fox who Nair's my shield and then pressures with Utilt aswell?

No, it usually doesn't work then. The ideal Foxes to **** with that strat is the ones who always aerial shine then WD, and a lot of mid-level foxes do that without even thinking about it. Unfortunately, utilt will almost always hit you out of your jump, and so will Foxes that can nair>shine>jc aerial.

Foxes that predictably utilt can be ***** pretty easily though. If I'm behind a Fox and he utilts my sheild, I usually short hop out of shield, wait for a second utilt and then time a knee, don't fastfall. upB OOS works but it's not really a great option, just free damage.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

SCAR..SPOC is OVER...where IKM2??

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Not a relevant question

Do you have any tips on Doc v Falcon? It's definitely one of my worst matchups hands down Dx

 

[EWC]

Scar, what can falcon do to beat foxes who use aerial->shine-> JC grab on your shield?

 

[G@BE]

if you spam raptor boost against ic's, they're gonna shield it then blizz grab you.
at least that's what choknater does. lol.
you have to space ridiculously well in efforts to avoid getting grabbed.
(since we all know what happens when ic's grab falcon... lol)
i suggest spamming bairs and dairs while being sure to land behind climbers so they can't shield grab.

Awesome... well If you have ever heard of Wobbles... He is ridiculously good with IC's

Everything you do vs ice climbers should be spaced really well... But over b still hurts IC's a lot

Scar? A little help lol

@EWC
Don't even let them get that far... Roll out of there before they even Shine. If you just sit in you're shield while Fox is on ya. You won't last to long.
Learn "when" to roll

-G@be

 

[DrewB008]

over b is good vs ice climbers, they wont shieldgrab you most of the time

i pretty much just jump around doing strong moves focusing on killing nana, then when you get down to just popo you just fight patiently, they cant really pressure you and you can start going for grabs. dthrow knee works really well if they dont DI away, otherwise theyll be able to get out of there. chus popo is the only popo who has consistently gotten out of this against me, and uthrow uair is pretty reliable in that case.

 

[G@BE]

I also remember another thing!

If you can pick a stage that has plenty of platforms. FoD, Pokemon, Yoshi and that is kinda small

Camp platforms
Ic's really have no good game for platform ****. Just stay on them and jump around doing d-airs... it usually works... for me at least >_<

 

[Captain Grenade]

well i'm pretty sure ic's can't shield grab overB, but they can blizz grab.
and maybe wd oos to grab but idk if that's fast enough.

ic's on a small stage + plat camp = a pretty decent strat imo

 

[Kike_Ichigo]

IC´s has the worst Air game... IMO cause they dont have a hit that hurt too much in around 60 - 80% like a Knee or a Fair from Sheik... o a Bair from Fox and Falco... so if you can Recover or Camp in a Platform will be the best Stage against them... well and... How you fight with a Needle Camper, Presure Ftilt/Utilt/Dtilt Sheik? is Hard... most of the Time you need a Platform... I do too mucho Dair for Save "control The Game" but I dont have a really strategi with that Kind of Sheik cause they have Range Wepon and an Amazing control in a Face-to-Face with her incredible priority Tilt... so any advice?

 

[Scar]

Scar, what can falcon do to beat foxes who use aerial->shine-> JC grab on your shield?

If they are doing it predictably, you have time to jump and dair after the shine. Wait for the stun to end of course, then the grab should miss and a dair on Fox is pretty sick. Knee should work too.

Rolling away is probably the least risky and best option here, I am pretty sure that if you buffer a roll (hold left or right on the c-stick while in shield) you will roll away before the grab.

Magus, do you know the timing on Fox's jc grab after shine? Is this information accurate? I haven't played many Fox/Falcos who do this.

Scar? A little help lol

You don't need my help, listen to DrewB (even though what he said is what I said before LULZ)

i pretty much just jump around doing strong moves focusing on killing nana, then when you get down to just popo you just fight patiently, they cant really pressure you and you can start going for grabs.

Perfect advice, platform camping is good too but the best way to fight ICs is to be really safe, DON'T GET GRABBED, kill Nana asap.

 

[DrewB008]

yeah people were still talking about it and there wasnt much else to say so i just sort of backed you up

hey scar do you know if pakman recorded the crew battles from smashtastrophe 2, and if he still has them? i fought chu in that and did pretty good, but never got to see it.

 

[G@BE]

I was really just asking for more of a back up situation thing lol

Cuz its either i know what im talking about.... Or the people im playing are horrible and don't know what they are doing.... and I'm Amazing????

-g@be

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

I mean against CPUs with no DI. I press it too fast so the first hit comes out above their head. I'm not really sure on what's the ideal timing for shffl nair, so if someone could tell me the shortest character that I should get both hits on with shffl nair I can fix my timing.

CPU's DI up like madmen and smash DI randomly

Foxes that predictably utilt can be ***** pretty easily though. If I'm behind a Fox and he utilts my sheild, I usually short hop out of shield, wait for a second utilt and then time a knee, don't fastfall. upB OOS works but it's not really a great option, just free damage.

I see... thanks alot dude

 

[Wangster]

wat can i du against dr.mario n mario, i cant seem to combo dem cuz of deir floatiness

 

[Pakman]

I don't have the crew battles from Stash2. I actually have very little footage from smashtastrophe. My Hard Drive ran out of space like half-way through and the program I was recording with didn't alert me. I had this one combo against eggm I wanted in my combo vid and I didn't get it.

 

[DrewB008]

man pakman youre on top of these boards. bummer though, i had a hot combo in there

 

[Scar]

I summoned him for you, Drew. My commitment to this thread is that deep.

 

[Ulti]

I have a few random questions.

First, regarding the Marth match-up, I read your write-up on it but I have a question regarding marths that camp with fair and up-tilt. I can sometimes get in-between all the swings with a grab, but I am worried about what happens when he catches on. Any advice? Also, sometimes I mis-judge my timing and get caught in an up-tilt juggle and I can't seem to find a way out of it, is there a particular way to DI to avoid the nastiest of his stuff?

Also, how useful is pivoting with Falcon? I can pivot f-smashes about half the time now, but I don't know how practical it is. I imagine between his long dash-dance and the lean-back animation of the smash that this would have some good counter-attack potential, but having not had the opportunity to play anybody since learning this I don't know.

Next, how useful is cc-ing and jab-canceling for Falcon? Is it something I should bother with? Finally, I honestly have no idea how to cc grab. Pressing z results in a d-tilt -- how do I do this?

Thanks.

 

[Scar]

First, regarding the Marth match-up, I read your write-up on it but I have a question regarding marths that camp with fair and up-tilt. I can sometimes get in-between all the swings with a grab, but I am worried about what happens when he catches on. Any advice? Also, sometimes I mis-judge my timing and get caught in an up-tilt juggle and I can't seem to find a way out of it, is there a particular way to DI to avoid the nastiest of his stuff?

Fair is Marth's counter to your approach. Marth should not be sh double fairing against you. If he is spamming it and camping with it, fair does have enough lag for you to be able to **** him with a quick nair > grab (or any other nair combo).

If he's shffling fairs, then that's a different story, but remember that the battle vs Marth is a battle for positioning. If he's advancing on you and approaching with fairs, you can bait it out and shieldgrab him when the time is right. If he's sitting still fairing then leave him alone or maybe even sneak in with a fB if you're too impatient.

Utilt is a killer move vs Falcon, but if it misses Marth is in a lot of lag. If they utilt predictably, then you should be able to bait it out and **** him for it. If he's utilting as a counter to your approach, stop approaching.

I hate Marth.

Also, how useful is pivoting with Falcon? I can pivot f-smashes about half the time now, but I don't know how practical it is. I imagine between his long dash-dance and the lean-back animation of the smash that this would have some good counter-attack potential, but having not had the opportunity to play anybody since learning this I don't know.

SS seems to do it a lot, but pivot nair is incredibly useful all the time, if you can do it then you should. Also you can just run away, smash down on the stick and then fsmash the other way, no need to learn how to pivot it.

Next, how useful is cc-ing and jab-canceling for Falcon? Is it something I should bother with? Finally, I honestly have no idea how to cc grab. Pressing z results in a d-tilt -- how do I do this?

Gentlemaning is more important than jab-canceling, CC is always important at high level play but you really need to just know when to do it, this comes with experience and even if I told you when to do it, you wouldn't really learn to implement it until you just CC everything and figure out for yourself what is good and what doesn't.

Also, I JC grab out of habit (except for turn around grabs) so I'm assuming that you just CC, then press x/y then z.

 

[Captain Grenade]

LMAO @ IKM2: DIODIA in your sig hahahaha
i felt like i was decoding a secret message while i was reading it.

 

[DrewB008]

yeah jump canceling while crouching works, or holding l/r and mashing a while crouching works

 

[Zero_P]

Scar! I need help with the gentleman

What do you do to achieve it's awesomeness?

 

[Da Shuffla]

A>A>pause> hold A. That's how you do it. I'm not sure of its uses.

 

[I.B]

sometimes i do AAZ

 

[Captain Grenade]

sometimes i do AAZ

me 2. but i fail. i wait too long and grab on the 3rd one.

 

[I.B]

sometimes i light shield >.>

 

[DrewB008]

i used to hold z until i light shielded then jumped out, but im more consistent now by doing a a then holding a, the only trick is to make sure you do some other movement before letting go of a, otherwise you gotta wait a long time before releasing. jiano does it like this i know, but i think darkrain does a a z with some kind of precise timing that i cant duplicate. i dont know what everyone else does