Scar on the Melee vs Brawl debate: What does competitive really mean?

[Jack Kieser]

Can people stop saying that Melee matches are, by default, more entertaining to watch? That's an opinion, guys, and it shouldn't be used as a factual argument. As I'm sure you could assume, I don't find tournament Melee matches too horribly entertaining to watch, personally; it's mostly WD'ing in and out or DDing around until one person leaves himself open for too long, which usually leads into some sort of combo, and then a F- or U-Smash for the kill (depending on what character we're talking about), maybe a spike at lower percentages.

Brawl matches may be slower, but they're much more suspenseful for me. That's my opinion. Does that make it fact? NO. So... stop treating your opinions as though they're concrete facts.

 

[Skalor]

To me, Melee destroys my hands, after 2 hours of melee I dont want to play anymore. I can play Brawl for a whole day and my hands are completely fine. You probably think im exagerating, honestly this is how it is with me, maybe im doing something weird, I dunno.

I know some will probably say "Melee is faster so hurts your hands more". I dont even think its that, I think its because im more tense with Melee. With Brawl, to me it just feel fluid, and just RIGHT.

So for me, thats one MAJOR reason why I love Brawl so much, I can play all day without my thumb dropping off. And no im not a 'casual' player, im taking brawl as serious as possible, check my Wolf Vids in my sig.

 

[Cort]

Can people stop saying that Melee matches are, by default, more entertaining to watch? That's an opinion, guys, and it shouldn't be used as a factual argument. As I'm sure you could assume, I don't find tournament Melee matches too horribly entertaining to watch, personally; it's mostly WD'ing in and out or DDing around until one person leaves himself open for too long, which usually leads into some sort of combo, and then a F- or U-Smash for the kill (depending on what character we're talking about), maybe a spike at lower percentages.

Brawl matches may be slower, but they're much more suspenseful for me. That's my opinion. Does that make it fact? NO. So... stop treating your opinions as though they're concrete facts.

Your opinion is completely wrong.

 

[Brookman]

I'd argue that, for the most part, Melee would make for a more entertaining game at the highest level. Brawl may be suspenseful, but so is Melee. To say that Melee is "just" Wavedashing or dash dancing around illustrates your lack of understanding of advanced game play. On top of that, Melee's greater speed and versatility through advanced techniques allows for a much less straightforward style of play in general.

Also, if a game is to have a chance at breaking into mainstream competition with games like Halo, entertainment value will be pretty important. Take MvC2 for example. You may say "oh blah blah blah spacing blahblah infinite combos blah blah." but that attitude just disregards the level of skill it takes to play the game at a highly competitive level.

Brawl is to football as Melee is to (insert fast paced sport with mdoerately few breaks in action)

Though I don't think competitive gaming will ever really have many fans solely interested in spectating, simply because many people take the attitude that these games are just that, games.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Can people stop saying that Melee matches are, by default, more entertaining to watch? That's an opinion, guys, and it shouldn't be used as a factual argument. As I'm sure you could assume, I don't find tournament Melee matches too horribly entertaining to watch, personally; it's mostly WD'ing in and out or DDing around until one person leaves himself open for too long, which usually leads into some sort of combo, and then a F- or U-Smash for the kill (depending on what character we're talking about), maybe a spike at lower percentages.

Brawl matches may be slower, but they're much more suspenseful for me. That's my opinion. Does that make it fact? NO. So... stop treating your opinions as though they're concrete facts.

So stop giving opinions because they're different from yours? Of course fun/boring are subjective, there's no need to call people out for not saying that it's only an opinion when it's obvious that it is.

 

[Jack Kieser]

@Cort: I'm going to assume that's sarcasm.

@Brookman: Oh, I understand high-level play just fine. That's all that ever happened to me, and the majority of videos that I've seen support my experience. Now, I didn't say that Melee was ONLY about WD'ing or DD'ing around, but to say that those two techs aren't two of the big three (L-canceling being the third) would be... well, I can't see how they aren't. They enable pretty much every strategy in Melee.

Oh, and as for gaming being a spectator sport... Korea just called. They would have to disagree.

@flyin: People can give their opinions. That's fine. This is a discussion board, after all. I just can't stand it when people speak as though their (obvious) opinions are gospel truth. Opinions are fine, but not when you honestly think that they are undeniable fact, like Brookman does below. Entertainment, by its very definition, can never be measured with any level of finality. No one can EVER say, with 100% certainty, that A is always more entertaining than B, because if one person disagrees... well, it's not like he has to defend his position... because it's an opinion. See what I mean?

 

[Brookman]

No, it really is a FACT that Melee is more entertaining. Speed = Emotion. He really is just a noob who is angry at how superior Melee's gameplay is in comparison to Brawl's.

 

[Brookman]

@Cort: I'm going to assume that's sarcasm.

@Brookman: Oh, I understand high-level play just fine. That's all that ever happened to me, and the majority of videos that I've seen support my experience. Now, I didn't say that Melee was ONLY about WD'ing or DD'ing around, but to say that those two techs aren't two of the big three (L-canceling being the third) would be... well, I can't see how they aren't. They enable pretty much every strategy in Melee.

Oh, and as for gaming being a spectator sport... Korea just called. They would have to disagree.

Again, illustrating your lack of understanding. The popularity of the competitive SC community in Korea is really exaggerated in the states. It may be more popular than other nation's gaming communities, but it still isn't on par with traditional sports like football, basketball, whatever.

 

[Tony_]

Loving this thread. The biasism couldn't be any higher ever.

 

[Cort]

It was fairly sarcastic. But I'd say whichever you picked up first and have more experience with will obviously be the more interesting game.

 

[Tony_]

No, it really is a FACT that Melee is more entertaining. Speed = Emotion. He really is just a noob who is angry at how superior Melee's gameplay is in comparison to Brawl's.

You don't really play Brawl do you?

Speed doesn't equal emotion. Its just speed, nothing more. Its just physics being used more or less to the players advantage.

 

[flyinfilipino]

You don't really play Brawl do you?

Speed doesn't equal emotion. Its just speed, nothing more. Its just physics being used more or less to the players advantage.

There's no point in trying to slap opinions in people's faces when they've already made up their minds.

 

[Brookman]

Conclusion:

Brawl sucks; Melee sucks.

Let's play Halo.

speed = emotion is an alliteration to a parody on metal, and my statement on Melee.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Again, illustrating your lack of understanding. The popularity of the competitive SC community in Korea is really exaggerated in the states. It may be more popular than other nation's gaming communities, but it still isn't on par with traditional sports like football, basketball, whatever.

I never compared it with traditional sports; I just said that the spectator community in Korea takes gaming much more seriously than any other country, something I think we can agree on. That scene is pretty important in Korea (comparatively speaking), and Korea has already proven to the world that pro gaming CAN be taken seriously as a spectator sport.

@Tony: Hey, speed TOTALLY equals emotion. I don't think a single person on the planet doesn't feel raw emotion when a DeLorean hits 88 mph, and if he doesn't... well, he's un-American, ****it.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Loving this thread. The biasism couldn't be any higher ever.

Biasism?


10rofls

 

[flyinfilipino]

Biasism?


10rofls

Oh, and this too. : )

 

[Tony_]

Conclusion:

Brawl sucks; Melee sucks.

Let's play Halo.

LOOOOL Halo.

 

[Tony_]

Biasism?


10rofls

Laughing at your attempts to make me look like a fool. You know **** well what I was talking about.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Laughing at your attempts to make me look like a fool. You know **** well what I was talking about.

This is serious business.

 

[Jack Kieser]

This is serious business.

QFT.

10squinty-eyes

 

[Tony_]

This is serious business.

=O OH SHI-

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Laughing at your attempts to make me look like a fool. You know **** well what I was talking about.

I wasn't trying to make you look like a fool, sorry, it was just a funny word.

I'm sorry I spammed once in a million years, it's out of my system now.

 

[Jack Kieser]

I wasn't trying to make you look like a fool, sorry, it was just a funny word.

I'm sorry I spammed once in a million years, it's out of my system now.

Too bad, because now we can never, ever forgive you for another million years! Nice job, failure!

[/sarcasm]

 

[Eggm]

Camping in other fighters isn't as bad as brawl camping I repeat, it isn't as bad...>_>

But basically you're just using blind optimism? You don't know it will you just assume things will get more defined?

The reason for this is, once the campings over, theres something more exciting than 1 or 2 hits to watch. xD

 

[Iwan]

I've come to the conclusion this thread could....

potentially....

never die.
ever.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I've come to the conclusion this thread could....

potentially....

never die.
ever.

That's just opinion, and it reeks with biasism.

 

[Skler]

Why would I ever want to watch Brawl instead of Melee? Do we need to compare the exciting, fast paced matches of high level (or even just earlier vids of the best) Melee with the campy, slow placed matches of high level Brawl again?

I'm going to go play Halo with brookman.

 

[thumbswayup]

I'm going to read a book.

**** it i'll just play melee.

 

[Jack Kieser]

I'm going to read a book.

**** it i'll just play melee.

Yeah, that's what I thought. You'd better not choose to read a book over playing video games.

...*****.

 

[Plairnkk]

? how is it an opinion for me to write about what i see in tournaments? it's not biased that i write about how nobody is enthralled by brawl tournaments, it's simply me looking around during big brawl tournaments - and well - everyone is falling asleep while azen is playing m2k in the finals.

also, m2k won the last brawl tournament. m2k hates brawl, thinks its shallow and takes no skill, and wishes melee was still the popular game.

i find that funny.

 

[Aesir]

The reason for this is, once the campings over, theres something more exciting than 1 or 2 hits to watch. xD

Honestly I think thats what it boils down too, I mean camping in brawl and camping in melee are more a less the same.

Melee's just happens faster so the entire match isn't just *camp camp camp camp* The face paced movement helps bring the match a long faster so more a less the camping doesn't become the primary action.

Plus it's more entertaining.

 

[Brookman]

? how is it an opinion for me to write about what i see in tournaments? it's not biased that i write about how nobody is enthralled by brawl tournaments, it's simply me looking around during big brawl tournaments - and well - everyone is falling asleep while azen is playing m2k in the finals.

also, m2k won the last brawl tournament. m2k hates brawl, thinks its shallow and takes no skill, and wishes melee was still the popular game.

i find that funny.

In other words, nothing is different from melee tournaments except that people don't want to play exorbitant amounts of friendly matches between tourney matches?

 

[Cort]

I don't think you read his post

 

[thumbswayup]

He needs to know what he stands to win.

 

[Skler]

In other words, nothing is different from melee tournaments except that people don't want to play exorbitant amounts of friendly matches between tourney matches?

Brookman Brookman Brookman, think about it. Nobody wants to play friendlies because Brawl gets boring after an hour, I can play Melee for 36 hours and not get bored.

Point and case, we should play some Halo at ESTICLE. For our tournament match if we play each other. No grenades, pistols only, hang em high.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Brookman Brookman Brookman, think about it. Nobody wants to play friendlies because Brawl gets boring after an hour, I can play Melee for 36 hours and not get bored.

Point and case, we should play some Halo at ESTICLE. For our tournament match if we play each other. No grenades, pistols only, hang em high.

That's interesting... I can play Brawl for 36 hours and not get bored! I suppose it must just be a matter of preference; that's the only thing I can think of to explain this bizarre phenomenon.

 

[Plairnkk]

Brawl is so newbie friendly, i wonder if that's why so many newbies cling so hard to it.

 

[Aesir]

That's interesting... I can play Brawl for 36 hours and not get bored! I suppose it must just be a matter of preference; that's the only thing I can think of to explain this bizarre phenomenon.

You must like watching paint dry, or think "Family Feud" is a good TV show.

 

[Pink Reaper]

You must like watching paint dry, or think "Family Feud" is a good TV show.

Dude, I once watched "Colored Bars" on TV for 3 hours straight. Even THAT was more interesting than Brawl.

 

[Jack Kieser]

You must like watching paint dry, or think "Family Feud" is a good TV show.

Man, when you said 'watching paint dry', all I could see was the 'Decline of Video Games' Flash series... (for those who haven't seen it, google 'Super Flash Bros'; you won't be disappointed) As for me not being bored, I think it has to do with the fact that Brawl is so different than what I've been playing for the last 7 years; it may have a few flaws, but the fact that it isn't old hat entertains me pretty well... aside from the fact that I think its a good game.