Scar on the Melee vs Brawl debate: What does competitive really mean?

[Aesir]

I love Pocky, the person and the snack.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

What kind of snack is a "pocky?" I've never tried one.

Although, guessing from pocky's avatar, it looks like some type of pretzel stick.

 

[Dark Sonic]

What is the differance of options, the 2 major distinctions between melee and brawl are wavedashing and L cancal.

But in brawl there are alot of other things you can do that add nice tricks. Like snakes sliding motar and things of that sort. There are still alot of options. If your fighting an opponent you have alot of options to attack.

And in melee there was double jump canceling, jump canceled grabs, dash canceling (crouching to cancel a dash), crouch canceling, dash dancing, reflective powershielding, and ASDI. There's some more distinctions for you there buddy.

Movement is hindered, so approach is hindered, so defense is strengthened.

Then they took away to reflective property of powershiedling, denying many characters the ability to counter spamming, which made camping better.

Then they reduced hitstun on all attacks, which means even after getting hit you are immediately safe again, meaning that the most punishment you can get for camping is taking a single hit, which made camping better.

Then they made rolling have less lag, and more invincibility. Although that helps approaching a little bit, overall it helps defensive play more, which made campig better.

Do you see the problem here? Even if you successfully approach, all you've accomplished is getting one hit. It's much better to camp, because there's less risk involved and you actually land more hits on average.

 

[Jack Kieser]

What kind of snack is a "pocky?" I've never tried one.

Although, guessing from pocky's avatar, it looks like some type of pretzel stick.

OMG, you've never tried Pocky?! Go out and find some now; it's such a delectable treat. ^_^

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

OMG, you've never tried Pocky?! Go out and find some now; it's such a delectable treat. ^_^

I don't live in the US anymore.

 

[pockyD]

it's a japanese snack anyway

and snake's sliding usmash is for the most part inferior to samus's swd, and at best, equivalent

 

[Johnknight1]

I can appreciate that. I also think Brawl is as it best when you have more than two players. I've been having a blast with Brawl team battles, and I've come to suspect that this will be the future of the game for many (the slower pace compliments this mode nicely, and camping is less of an issue.)

And I really do think there is room for thriving Brawl and Melee communities. If fact, when Smash 64 comes to virtual console I'd like to see tourament organizers hold tournaments for the entirety of the Smash Bros trilogy.

QFT. A three game smash tournament would rock...if only Melee had online! It'd be TEH EPIC MINDGAMES! I could go from Mario main to Fox main to Toon Link main! TEH MINDGAMEZ! Seriously, having all three smashes in one tournament would be simply put AMAZING! I just love all three games SOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH!

I keep hearing this "Well Brawl has been out for three months deal is crap. We have a competitve community to find techniques, and the competitve levels of the game are at it's peak" crap, and it's DEAD WRONG! We haven't even reached Melee's peak. It's stupid, arrogant, and based on ill-informed information, and strictly a foolish, near-sighted, and close-minded opinion. We just found the Quick Attack Cancel, a useful Quick Attack Cancelling technique for Pikachu where you can pound defensive players, and dominate the battlefield from the far left to far right side of the field in a SNAP! I can go dig up AND FIND AT LEAST 5 techniques found last week on a forum somewhere on one of the many big smash internet forums. I'm not joking. 5 techniques that can be used, and add technical skill to the game. There are a lot of techniques in this game we don't know about. If there were like triple digit techniques in the game we HAVE NOT FOUND/discovered/made public, I would not be surprised. Not one bit. We still suck at the game, as the great HugS has stated. No one is good. No one is pro. We're still very new to this game, and we still know minimal about it. We haven't even fully expressed the option of having teams as the main game, or even heavy brawl (or light brawl, if you must mention it).

We're still really new to Brawl, and we STILL know minimally about it competitvely! >_< We still have a lot to cover, and easily and probably hundreds (I'm NOT joking!) of techniques to discover. That's a lot of ground. And the best has yet to come! I don't have anything but a feeling, but I know it's right! There is a new technique WAITING to be discovered, and once we discovered it, everything we think about Brawl competitvely will change. I guarentee you, without any evidence, it is THERE! And there might be more then one game-changing techniques that we will discover in the long run! Plus, we keep finding these minor yet still important and applyable techniques. I wouldn't be surprised if we found 100 techniques already, and still have 100 to find. Not to mention the 39 characters and their single/limited/few character-only techniques that we still need to find and apply!

Want me just to show you how LONG IT TOOK to find Melee techniques and whatnot? I'm basically taking this from the ever-smart and knowledgeable AlphaZealot (mainly one particular post), and a few other things. If I'm wrong, don't kill me, since the internet REALLY IS serious business! Don't get too serious now!

-Wavedashing wasn't found until 2003, 2 years after Melee's release.

-Azen admitted to not knowing how to short hop in one of the biggest Melee tournaments EVER in 2004 (that he won and beat Ken in).

-Short Hopping wasn't big competitively until after 2004.

-Moonwalking wasn't found until 2005. 2005! The competitve smash community had been around for 3 F***ING YEARS! Why wouldn't we have found that!?!?!? It's soooo f***ing easy to find, and yet it took us 4 years, and 3 years of being competitve.

-The Ness Yo-yo glitch wasn't fully discovered and known until sometime in either 2005 or 2006.

-The Ness Jacket techniques weren't all known until 2005 or 2006. It's not too hard to find, yet it took a while to find. Probably because Ness is fairly low on the tiers, and (in my opinion) underrated (Ness > Mr. Game & Watch in Melee; but that's just me! >_>).

Do some of you honestly think we've found even most the techniques in Brawl? We've had the game, and we still haven't even found anywhere near all the techniques, or have come close to developing the final meta-game. This is a new game, with new techniques. I know, that's said a lot, but the best techniques take a while to find. The Quick Attack Cancel is a prime example. Plus as I've previously said, there has to be a new L-cancelling (level of usefulness; L-cancelling is better and more important then wavedashing ever has or will be). There has to be a game-changing technique or two. In Melee (and mostly smash 64) we had L-cancelling, wavedashing, wavelanding, dash dancing, and so forth. There has gotta be new, deep techniques.

A meta-game doesn't pop up in a week, does it? In fact, it will take well over a year to fully develop the Brawl meta-game. We didn't really get Melee's down until 2005 and 2006, even with a competitve following partially for 3 to 5 years, and fully for at least 3 years. Street Fighter II had a HUGE COMPETITVE FOLLOWNG, and still does. Street Fighter III's competitveness still took years upon years upon years to even reach anywhere near the level of Street Fighter II's competitve level. They are both somewhat similar games, and are much more similar then Melee to Brawl. Yet it still took years for Street Fighter III to even get fully competitve. In fact, it probably took LONGER for Street Fighter III to get competive than Street Fighter II, because of a feel of ignorance, lack of the current development of the internet, and because people couldn't get over the fact that it wasn't Street Fighter II 2.0!

Therer are several things that really bug me. One of them is this "Melee is better then Brawl" as a undeniable fact attitude is just arrogant, and another one is this "Brawl is better then Melee" as a undeniable fact attitude is just arrogant. Both are wrong, or rather-it's all your opinion, and nothing more. Play smash, and enjoy smash. That is the only rule of smash, along with playing the game YOUR WAY! Seriously though, why can't I like BOTH Peaches (Brawl) and Orange Juice equally, despite their diffrences, and why can't I like eggs (smash 64) a lot (but not as much) as well? I just love and can't get enough of both peaches and orange juice, and I love them both! Peaches, orange juice, and eggs together can be healthy, and make a full and complete meal. Why not have them all? The more to love, the more to eat, and the fuller you are! If you have all of them, you are definitely much healthier and fuller then if you had just one or two. So, why not embrace and eat them all!?!?!?

The Squirtle super wavedash up smash thing (shellshock is what I believe it's called) involves skill, does it not? The problem is that defensive techniques are easier to find then offensive techniques. In Melee, we found wavedashing, wavelanding, dash dancing, and L-cancelling before offensive techniques. Offense is a bit deeper to dive into, and takes quite a bit longer. And last I checked, there weren't 5 super broken characters in Brawl like in Melee. That's depth that Melee didn't have, is it not? Brawl and Melee are, simply put, bipolar opposites. The only thing the same is 22 of the characters, jumping, tilts, smash attacks, special attacks, characters, stages, they are both video games and fighting games, items, single-player and multiplayer modes alike, teching, DI, and several/a few other of the smash "basics". We gotta find new stuff, and keep looking for it. We gotta keep drilling into the game, and find new techniques. Look for the unobvious, and look high and low. And when we find stuff, we gotta apply it, and see how it works, if it helps, when it helps, and what it can be used for. And you know what? We are.

Most Melee big name pros are playing in Brawl tournaments. They might be playing in Melee, or even smash 64 tournaments as well (to keep a healty diet!), but they are still coming back and playing Brawl. The way I see it is play all three smashes like a true smasher (competitvely; you can go play casually if that is what you want=play the game your way), and be happy. We keep finding new techniques. We're finding the new techniques, and that is currently the process and stage of the competitive level we are at. Next we gotta drill into these techniques, find some of the uses for them, apply them, learn them, master them in these situations/uses, and then find ALL the uses for them. We're still in a fairly early stage (one of the earliest?) stages of Brawl's competitve development. We still got at least 2 years to go before the competitve community maxes out (maybe 4). The best thing is, if we're "bored" of Brawl, we got smash 64 and Melee to rely on. Plus in couple of years, we will probably get a new smash game (announced). We can switch between the three, and play smash like a true smashers, by playing all three smash games (interchangeably).

Wanna hear something that people can't deal with? Tripping. Everyone I've faced (even pro-level Brawl players) can't handle tripping, except for me. They always charge in like a idiot. And I crush them. They think you're a sitting duck, like you are glued to the ground, and you can't move, just like if you shielded too long, your shield broke, and you are TOTALLY VULNERABLE! So you know what? I dodge roll in front/behind them at the proper moment, and CRUSH THEM with a tilt, or a combo, or something! Especially combos in Brawl 2.0 mode! My ability to handle one small insignifigant random thing is better then theirs. They don't even have the capacity to accept that tripping is in the game basically! Being able to handle randomness involves random factors involves skill, does it not? They can't even think "competitively" with randomness. All anyone ever thinks is "I HATE TRIPPING!", and they play like they act in that moment: Stupid. They play more like casual players then the competive players they claim to be in that situation 100% of the time. I wonder if I turned items on in any match if they would know how to dodge, use, or defend against them a lot of the time! If you aren't thinking, simply put, you are losing, and are clearly making a (competitve) mistake.

And has anyone mentioned Brawl 2.0, or rather, Heavy Brawl? Hitstun is better, less DI, as close to a perfect air vs. land vs. defense balance as you can get, balanced recoveries (Pit, R.O.B., and Meta Knight can't hide FOREVER anymore! ), and so forth are reasons why I think Heavy Brawl is superior. I've actually done real fighting game level combos. Like 50% combos, that are unavoidable when I trapped my opponents. That is technical skill, is it not? Plus, short hopping is probably shorter then in Melee, and fast falling is as fast as ever. The general gameplay is faster, and there isn't the super hitstun. O, and you die earlier, and there is a perfect level of use of recovering and edge guarding/reaching game. Edge hogging is now actually useful. And thanks to the ability to fast fall (faster! >_<), you edge hog faster. Every aspect of the game feels much better, and more fine tuned. Recovery, grounded offense, defense, aerial offense, edge guarding, combos, grabs, fast falling, hit stun, and everything is just better, and better all around balanced. It's a lot more competitve then Brawl 1.0. Brawl 2.0 (Heavy Brawl) in my opinion is simply funner, better, and more competitve on basically (if not entirely) all levels.

All in all, I find Brawl 2.0 to be much better. DI is still generally better then Melee (and in most instances in my opinion, smash 64 [I could be wrong on that one; don't kill me again with your serious business! ]). The DI is still incredible, and it's probably more flexible then ever. With Brawl 2.0, all that is wrong with Brawl 1.0 is fixed. And we still have the amazing character balance of Brawl 1.0, if not more and better balance. In other words, we don't have to deal with the same characters over and over again in Melee, and horrible character balance compared to Brawl. Yes-that comes from a Fox main, Link and Falco secondary-user, and Roy, Peach, and above all, Ness thirdary user. I've grown to love the fact that online I hardly ever face the same character twice in a row, everyone and anyone wins at the same skill level, and so forth. However, above all, skill should mean winning. With Brawl 2.0, the best, most skillful, most technical, and the best adapting player wins most of the time, easily. And of course, we still have the awsome stages, that now have a bigger impact than in Brawl 1.0. Which generally makes the stages feel tons better. But as always, that's just me, and is strictly in my opinion.

Whether you disagree or agree with me on this, please, just simply put give Brawl 2.0 (Heavy Brawl) a try. Who knows? You might think you are against it, and fall head over heels in love with it for it's diffrences from the standard Brawl. If you are tired of minimal hitstun, campers (ERGH! DIE ALREADY!), defense being the sole focus on the advanced meta-game (so far), too much DI, no focus on recovery and anti-recovery, no use for spiking in most cases, actual focus on edge guarding/hogging/hugging and whatnot, you want more focus on offense in general, and above all, you want combos, then AT LEAST give Brawl 2.0 (Heavy Brawl) a try. Being open-minded about things generally can open a lot of doors for you at anything and everything, and puts you ahead of the (close-minded) crowd, ya know!?

O, and Team Battles seem to be much better then 1 vs. 1. I've always said smash 64 and Melee 2 vs. 2 matches are more intresting, involve more skill (team coordinating), and whatnot, but I've always said I was a bad team player, and was never dedicated to it. Now I gotta find a permante (good) teammate, and start playing team matches. I always found team matches a ton funner, cooler, and more competitve, and I should go try and play a team match now. Teams and Heavy Brawl (for live tournaments) FTW!

Ya, I post a lot! Yae to fast typing and thinking! O, and leave it to HugS to say all the smart things. Like in this thread he made that I'm posting a link to (below this).

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143089

To be simple, give it time, try out new things, and look for the unobvious. And play smash your way. Items or no items (I prefer no items). Play only certain stages (I rarely play most banned stages). Single-player or multiplayer (MULTIPLAYER!). Teams or 1v1 (I play 1v1, but I like teams TONS MORE!). Simply put, PLAY SMASH YOUR WAY! I am DEFINITELY play ALL THREE smash games MY way, and I am, simply put, loving it! Are you? Give stuff a try, and just try experimenting with Brawl, and maybe a few things with other smashes. You can find out a lot, or find out something really important. Like wavedashing, L-cancelling, dash dancing, and whatnot! Okay, maybe not L-cancelling big, but anything is definetely something. The more you find, the more you know. The more you share and show what you know (publicly; on the internet), the more we learned. The more we learn, the more we know. The more you learn, the more you know. The more you know, the more you can apply. The more you apply (proplerly), the better you can become. So simply put, the more we find, the better we all become. And we can all definitely find and learn a lot more about Brawl!

I need to stop posting so long, and editing my post! Hope you had fun reading this post in it's longness! >_>

 

[RDK]

Holy ****ing hell, John! How long did it take you to write that? LOL.

Lemme get off this **** Wii and get on my laptop so I can respond to this.

 

[Fugue]

If you think you saying its less deep then melee is gonna make everyone go omg lets play melee in tourneys instead your wrong.

People play the newer game and thats how it is.

I rest my case.

This man has a point. Look at other fighting game communities. When Capcom Fighting Evolution and SNK vs Capcom: Chaos came out, everyone dropped their old, not-new SF and KoF games and started playing only CFE/SVCC tourneys instead.

Oh hey, I think your case woke up.

 

[talking_chicken]

This man has a point. Look at other fighting game communities. When Capcom Fighting Evolution and SNK vs Capcom: Chaos came out, everyone dropped their old, not-new SF and KoF games and started playing only CFE/SVCC tourneys instead.

Oh hey, I think your case woke up.

And yet, Super Street Fighter II Turbo is still being played at EVO (they played it in 07, and HD Remix this year), even though there's 3rd Strike, any of the Alpha games, and a ton of other newer fighters out there. I'm probably not the only one who will hang on to a "old, not-new" game if it still has plenty of competitive play in it.

 

[Pink Reaper]

DEAR ZEUS o.O

Someone please give me the tl;dr version of John's post.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Hey JohnKnight?

How long did it take us to find the L-cancel?

 

[Corigames]

For the rest of this page, posts will appear to be crushed under the shear stress of that post, but I fear we are getting off topic...

So, I must say that I hate Brawl. Why? Well, I think I've given every logical reason throughout this and all other threads on these boards. The only thing left to say is that I'm a complete fanboy who fears change. I'm not anything without my twitchy muscle memory and broken characters. Wavedashing was an exploit that ruined the game and I liked it. There?

 

[Wiseguy]

EPIC LONG POST!

Wowzers, John. I haven't seen a post like that since the demise of my Character Predictions thread. I don't have much time, but here's a short reply.

I don't know if we'll discover a ton of advanced techniques in the future, but I sure wouldn't mind it. But I'm also not particularly concerned, as Brawl's gameplay seems perfect to me. (But hey, why do I know. It's not like I'm Azen or something.)

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4269020&postcount=53

I see much wisdom is your recomendation that folks try alternate modes like heavy Brawl and team battles before dismissing the game entirely. I suspect folks are so used to standard 1 vs 1s at this point that they think that's all there is. Good to see that some of us know better.

Anywho, let's see if I can't this this stupid essay finished.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Man, John... that was crazy. My eyes actually ached after I read that, but it was a good ache. Oh, and Wiseguy? I watched the video you linked to in the your Azen quotation post; it was a good match, but unless my eyes deceived me, I didn't see too many combos reaching over 3 or 4 hits long. I'm watching it again just to make sure (I just woke up)... but I'm pretty sure a lot of that fight consisted of running in, getting a hit or two, then starting over. Interesting...

 

[Cookiez]

Hey JohnKnight?

How long did it take us to find the L-cancel?

Lol also this:

"Everyone I've faced (even pro-level Brawl players) can't handle tripping, except for me."

A little... arrogant?

But still, JohnKnight your post was extremely well written and you made many valid points.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Man, John... that was crazy. My eyes actually ached after I read that, but it was a good ache. Oh, and Wiseguy? I watched the video you linked to in the your Azen quotation post; it was a good match, but unless my eyes deceived me, I didn't see too many combos reaching over 3 or 4 hits long. I'm watching it again just to make sure (I just woke up)... but I'm pretty sure a lot of that fight consisted of running in, getting a hit or two, then starting over. Interesting...

Yeah, and if my eyes don't decieve me, it was a pretty old match that wasn't very exciting either.

 

[Wiseguy]

Man, John... that was crazy. My eyes actually ached after I read that, but it was a good ache. Oh, and Wiseguy? I watched the video you linked to in the your Azen quotation post; it was a good match, but unless my eyes deceived me, I didn't see too many combos reaching over 3 or 4 hits long. I'm watching it again just to make sure (I just woke up)... but I'm pretty sure a lot of that fight consisted of running in, getting a hit or two, then starting over. Interesting...

ZOMG! Azen & Ken = not comptitive! Melee = Mario Party! We is d00med!!!!1!

 

[Fugue]

And yet, Super Street Fighter II Turbo is still being played at EVO (they played it in 07, and HD Remix this year), even though there's 3rd Strike, any of the Alpha games, and a ton of other newer fighters out there. I'm probably not the only one who will hang on to a "old, not-new" game if it still has plenty of competitive play in it.

Originally, I had been a bit worried about how thickly I had laid on the sarcasm, but apparently it wasn't enough.
I was being facetious. Nobody actually picked up CFE or SvCC. Both games were terrible in comparison to previous entries. The communities glossed over them because they were imbalanced and not enough fun.

 

[Crizthakidd]

i seriously wouldn't mind if the 4-5 years made in making brawl would of gone to the most epic online melee game. like smash melee with online and some new chars.

brawl is fun but watching it is not and thats the point of being competitive to strive to be the best and have fun, pwn others. if its boring doing that why do it!

 

[Steck]

I know its been said that being less competitive does not make brawl less of a game but really, be honest now, by saying that it is less competitive doesn't that really mean "You are wasting your time trying to be a pro with this shallow game, especially since melee has far more advanced techniques and doesn't have tripping"?
On the other hand most of us will never go back to melee now. For whatever reason. (My gamecube is broken and my disc is scratched.) And there is an advantage- for all us who never really knew about the metagame it gives us time to raise our skills, since brawl has done away with some of the advanced techniques of melee.

In brawl's defense- I think it does have a bit more strategy to it. Mindgaming your opponent is more important now since you can't simply own them since you know some advanced moves he doesn't (plus camping is easier in brawl- got to find new ways to get around that). Brawl is slower than melee witch means that racking up damage over time rather than combos is more important. Although melee may be slightly more competitive than brawl- I don't think its enough to abandon brawl for melee.

 

[talking_chicken]

Originally, I had been a bit worried about how thickly I had laid on the sarcasm, but apparently it wasn't enough.
I was being facetious. Nobody actually picked up CFE or SvCC. Both games were terrible in comparison to previous entries. The communities glossed over them because they were imbalanced and not enough fun.

Yeah, I'm an idiot. Sorry. I knew something was up.

 

[LouisLeGros]

I know its been said that being less competitive does not make brawl less of a game but really, be honest now, by saying that it is less competitive doesn't that really mean "You are wasting your time trying to be a pro with this shallow game, especially since melee has far more advanced techniques and doesn't have tripping"?
On the other hand most of us will never go back to melee now. For whatever reason. (My gamecube is broken and my disc is scratched.) And there is an advantage- for all us who never really knew about the metagame it gives us time to raise our skills, since brawl has done away with some of the advanced techniques of melee.

In brawl's defense- I think it does have a bit more strategy to it. Mindgaming your opponent is more important now since you can't simply own them since you know some advanced moves he doesn't (plus camping is easier in brawl- got to find new ways to get around that). Brawl is slower than melee witch means that racking up damage over time rather than combos is more important. Although melee may be slightly more competitive than brawl- I don't think its enough to abandon brawl for melee.

More reliance on mind games does not mean it requires more then Melee.

Then the way Brawl games turn out they don't really suit themselves very well for tournament play.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Lol also this:

"Everyone I've faced (even pro-level Brawl players) can't handle tripping, except for me."

A little... arrogant?

But still, JohnKnight your post was extremely well written and you made many valid points.

Lol seriously JohnKnight? You're not that good.

You got ***** by me and my friend (Who doesn't even play competitive smash) in teams last night. How do you think that you can handle tripping if you can't beat me?

 

[HipsterGarbage]

Ah, tourneyfegs taking smash more importantly then it ever should be, always an interesting read. Seriously though, do you guys have lives? All that matters is that the too-stubborn-to-learn-a-new-game melee losers will keep playing their game and the rest of us will keep playing brawl. What's the point in arguing?

 

[Jack Kieser]

Ah, tourneyfegs taking smash more importantly then it ever should be, always an interesting read. Seriously though, do you guys have lives? All that matters is that the too-stubborn-to-learn-a-new-game melee losers will keep playing their game and the rest of us will keep playing brawl. What's the point in arguing?

Of all the times for Yuna to not be here to rip someone a new a**hole... Listen, guy. No 'tourneyf*gs' **** will be tolerated on these boards. That kind of flaming is ********, and totally unwelcome. If you want to defend Brawl, state your case, but if you aren't going to, then GTFO.

 

[LouisLeGros]

Well said Jack,
if he continues posting habits like that I wouldn't be surprised to see him banned.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

He's a joke account. Or should I say troll, check his other posts. He'll be banned soon.

At least his avatar is fitting

 

[Fletch]

He's a joke account. Or should I say troll, check his other posts. He'll be banned soon.

At least his avatar is fitting

Beat me to it...

 

[shadydentist]

Theres no way to 'handle' tripping. Something that happens randomly is not something you can 'handle', only take advantage of if possible.

Also, saying Brawl has more mindgames is meaningless. Sure, there are fewer combos, but there are also fewer options to punish your opponent. You can't punish roll spamming by wavedashing/dash dancing to grab anymore. You can't crouch cancel your dash to surprise your opponent with a forward smash to the face. Fewer options = fewer mindgames.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Ah, tourneyfegs taking smash more importantly then it ever should be, always an interesting read. Seriously though, do you guys have lives? All that matters is that the too-stubborn-to-learn-a-new-game melee losers will keep playing their game and the rest of us will keep playing brawl. What's the point in arguing?

Ironic how you would purposely make an account just to repeat the same dribble in some hope that you'll rekindle an old flame with the forum members. The fact that you sunk down to our level just to argue shows that you don't have morals. Stupidity often leads you to lose everything, and in this case, it's your sanity.

Come back when you have something positive to say, or a case to bring so that you may back up your follious hatred towards are community. Until then, you don't have a pot to pee in, or a window to throw it out of.

Bye troll.

 

[crazygoose]

Of all the times for Yuna to not be here to rip someone a new a**hole... Listen, guy. No 'tourneyf*gs' **** will be tolerated on these boards. That kind of flaming is ********, and totally unwelcome. If you want to defend Brawl, state your case, but if you aren't going to, then GTFO.

Yuna doesn't so much rip @$$hole as he gets his @$$hole ripped into.

God, I love being such a d!ck.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Yuna doesn't so much rip @$$hole as he gets his @$$hole ripped into.

God, I love sucking a d!ck.

hey, whatever makes you happy man >_>

 

[dj_pwn1423]

I dunno, even though brawl is certainly slower than melee I wouldn't consider it a particularly "slow" game. Most people already know that you can cancel all lag of pretty much any aerial atk if you time it right. heck I went to one of those crappy playntrade tourneys two weeks ago, and I can tell you the matches were pretty fast paced (well the matches with other competitive players at least -_-). I didn't see anyone lose a match because of tripping (It can certainty happen though), or any newbie beating a competitive player AT ALL.

the only reasons I would see for people to stop playing brawl is the lack of depth compared to melee, and the lack of combos. But I f you look at a game like street fighter there aren't many things you would need to learn(compared to melee) before you could start kicking *** at tourneys. Also in SF tourney matches you don't see as many combos as you would think. With the exemption of some characters, most of the combos involve getting 1-3 hits on your opponent and then performing a super move. oh yeah there aren't as many ways to perform "mindgames" in SF as there were/are in melee.

the reason SF has managed to stay alive for so long is because of balance. If brawl is balanced enough (thank god no moar fox ****... hopefully) it could even manage to be bigger than melee. Of course camping is BAD (*coughunbalance>_>) but not as bad as people seem to think, maybe I haven't been camp'd hard enough >_>.

oh I would like to mention melee was cool before wavedashing, thats all I guess

if someone has a problem with the SF part of my post please tell me, I'm not as knowledgeable of SF as I am of smash.

 

[Corigames]

Ah, tourneyfegs taking smash more importantly then it ever should be, always an interesting read. Seriously though, do you guys have lives? All that matters is that the too-stubborn-to-learn-a-new-game melee losers will keep playing their game and the rest of us will keep playing brawl. What's the point in arguing?

No, don't play Brawl. First, you'll be like, "Brawl is fun, forget competitive play." Then you'll start playing with your friends. Things will be cool until they stop wanting to play. You are too good and they don't want to put up with it anymore. So you start looking for other people to play. You meet up with some people here on the boards. They're cool, and some of them can even beat you! So you get better. Then, one of them will do the unspeakable. He'll tell you about a tournament!!!

I know what you are thinking, "This will never happen to me. My friends aren't like that!" You'd be surprised at how many teenagers fall victim to competitis. Warning signs may include loss of challenge in gaming, boredom with friends, irritated eyes, sweaty palms, addictive playing.

So, ask your game vendor to prescribe you Casualzak! Casualzak will inhibit the skill receptors in your brain. You will find a general lack of need to succeed or improve in every day gaming. You will become sterilized form the competitive scene. Everyone will like you because you are just as bad as they are. Fun will know no end because you will be forever stuck in a time loop of items and poorly made stages! What joy!

Call today!

 

[LouisLeGros]

I dunno, even though brawl is certainly slower than melee I wouldn't consider it a particularly "slow" game. Most people already know that you can cancel all lag of pretty much any aerial atk if you time it right. heck I went to one of those crappy playntrade tourneys two weeks ago, and I can tell you the matches were pretty fast paced (well the matches with other competitive players at least -_-). I didn't see anyone lose a match because of tripping (It can certainty happen though), or any newbie beating a competitive player AT ALL.

the only reasons I would see for people to stop playing brawl is the lack of depth compared to melee, and the lack of combos. But I f you look at a game like street fighter there aren't many things you would need to learn(compared to melee) before you could start kicking *** at tourneys. Also in SF tourney matches you don't see as many combos as you would think. With the exemption of some characters, most of the combos involve getting 1-3 hits on your opponent and then performing a super move. oh yeah there aren't as many ways to perform "mindgames" in SF as there were/are in melee.

the reason SF has managed to stay alive for so long is because of balance. If brawl is balanced enough (thank god no moar fox ****... hopefully) it could even manage to be bigger than melee. Of course camping is BAD (*coughunbalance>_>) but not as bad as people seem to think, maybe I haven't been camp'd hard enough >_>.

oh I would like to mention melee was cool before wavedashing, thats all I guess

if someone has a problem with the SF part of my post please tell me, I'm not as knowledgeable of SF as I am of smash.

I'm going to say I have a problem with your Street Fighter comparison. It doesn't work when comparing it to smash bros. Also you are wrong on the balance part. The balance of the characters has little to no correlation with the success of a competitive scene... look at MvC2 or well Melee.

The whys for my responses can be found in other posts in this thread.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

No, don't play Brawl. First, you'll be like, "Brawl is fun, forget competitive play." Then you'll start playing with your friends. Things will be cool until they stop wanting to play. You are too good and they don't want to put up with it anymore. So you start looking for other people to play. You meet up with some people here on the boards. They're cool, and some of them can even beat you! So you get better. Then, one of them will do the unspeakable. He'll tell you about a tournament!!!

I know what you are thinking, "This will never happen to me. My friends aren't like that!" You'd be surprised at how many teenagers fall victim to competitis. Warning signs may include loss of challenge in gaming, boredom with friends, irritated eyes, sweaty palms, addictive playing.

So, ask your game vendor to prescribe you Casualzak! Casualzak will inhibit the skill receptors in your brain. You will find a general lack of need to succeed or improve in every day gaming. You will become sterilized form the competitive scene. Everyone will like you because you are just as bad as they are. Fun will know no end because you will be forever stuck in a time loop of items and poorly made stages! What joy!

Call today!

If only I can put entire post in my sig...

 

[Plairnkk]

brawl is so boring, lmao

intense melee match ::everyone watches in dead silence waiting for something epic to happen::

intense brawl match:: 3-4 people watch periodically while chatting amongst themselves about random petty things to help pass the time while every once and a while grazing their eyes to the tv to see that each player has chipped away 40% more damage each. -.-

 

[Fletch]

No, don't play Brawl. First, you'll be like, "Brawl is fun, forget competitive play." Then you'll start playing with your friends. Things will be cool until they stop wanting to play. You are too good and they don't want to put up with it anymore. So you start looking for other people to play. You meet up with some people here on the boards. They're cool, and some of them can even beat you! So you get better. Then, one of them will do the unspeakable. He'll tell you about a tournament!!!

I know what you are thinking, "This will never happen to me. My friends aren't like that!" You'd be surprised at how many teenagers fall victim to competitis. Warning signs may include loss of challenge in gaming, boredom with friends, irritated eyes, sweaty palms, addictive playing.

So, ask your game vendor to prescribe you Casualzak! Casualzak will inhibit the skill receptors in your brain. You will find a general lack of need to succeed or improve in every day gaming. You will become sterilized form the competitive scene. Everyone will like you because you are just as bad as they are. Fun will know no end because you will be forever stuck in a time loop of items and poorly made stages! What joy!

Call today!

This is too good.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

No, don't play Brawl. First, you'll be like, "Brawl is fun, forget competitive play." Then you'll start playing with your friends. Things will be cool until they stop wanting to play. You are too good and they don't want to put up with it anymore. So you start looking for other people to play. You meet up with some people here on the boards. They're cool, and some of them can even beat you! So you get better. Then, one of them will do the unspeakable. He'll tell you about a tournament!!!

I know what you are thinking, "This will never happen to me. My friends aren't like that!" You'd be surprised at how many teenagers fall victim to competitis. Warning signs may include loss of challenge in gaming, boredom with friends, irritated eyes, sweaty palms, addictive playing.

So, ask your game vendor to prescribe you Casualzak! Casualzak will inhibit the skill receptors in your brain. You will find a general lack of need to succeed or improve in every day gaming. You will become sterilized form the competitive scene. Everyone will like you because you are just as bad as they are. Fun will know no end because you will be forever stuck in a time loop of items and poorly made stages! What joy!

Call today!

Ahh, nothing like the aroma of a bit of epicness in the afternoon! Just in time for tea, too!

brawl is so boring, lmao

intense melee match ::everyone watches in dead silence waiting for something epic to happen::

intense brawl match:: 3-4 people watch periodically while chatting amongst themselves about random petty things to help pass the time while every once and a while grazing their eyes to the tv to see that each player has chipped away 40% more damage each. -.-

So true, so true. *Sigh*