lord karn
Smash Master
The most valid reason to ban metaknight is a ban would, in my opinion, make the metagame much more interesting. Metaknight isn't too good, just good enough that it's almost always better to play as him.
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ROB Q&A!! Read this before asking questions...ALL OF IT!
- Thread starter Overswarm
- Start date
JCaesar
Smash Hero
That's what I've been saying ALL ALONG. He's not Akuma, it's just that the game would be a LOT better if he had never been included in the first place. I don't understand why people are so afraid to change one aspect of the game (characters) when they have no problem changing another (stages or items). It's really NO different.
AfroQT
Smash Master
Tis true, tis true indeed.
I never saw MK as that bad but....apparently its really hard.
It could be because i use snake and thats the best char to fight MK with (I think?) but meh.
AfroQT
Smash Master
I dont understand why you dont just learn how to fight a single character.
In every fighting game, one character is above the rest. Its impossible to make a perfectly balanced game. In other fighters, NEVER has it been thought of (WITH THE SINGLE EXCEPTION of SF:ST2 AKuma) to ban the top character just because hes the best.
(I guess it could also mean other games are more balanced but still, the arguement to take out the best char "cuz it would balance the game more" isnt remotely logical)
lord karn
Smash Master
The point is not that players can't adapt to Metaknight and beat him. Metaknight is definitely beatable. Rather, the point is that Metaknight makes the game worse.
Let's see. Lukky and Yostir? No offense to them, they're not quite the calibur of player I am. And almost beating anyone never means anything.I will MM any of your secondaries, $5.
I **** all of Yoster's secondaries, and can barely beat his MK.
I can beat all of Lukky's secondaries, and his MK ***** me.
I almost beat M2K's DDD, and his MK ***** me (all in tourney).
I ***** Kirbstir's MK in tourney ... hmm that doesn't quite fit
I'll MM you with wario and pikachu for sure, and possibly ROB/d3
slikvik
Smash Master
*must defend crew member*. play him(lukky) in tourney. your probably better now, but its not a massive gap like your probably assuming. hes taken out a good portion of md/va's finest already not having gone to that many tournaments.
edit: jcaez, start ****** metaknights now
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Normally the "best character" is discovered fairly late in the game and people argue back and forth about who is the best... MK pretty much takes the cake in this game. It's painfully obvious that he's the best and that MK is actually improving as time goes on. Sheik did the same thing... but could be beaten by a plethora of characters... so wasn't that bad.
Yea but at the beginning of melee everyone thought sheik was the best and only got better as well, then look at what happened. Sheik ***** everyone at the beginning, even ice climbers, fox and falco.
Just because a character is the best doesnt make them banworthy, idiots. You guys are just spoiled from melee because it was more balanced. If you take MK out, another character will just rise up as the best and you will complain about them because you're all scrubs.
Just because a character is the best doesnt make them banworthy, idiots. You guys are just spoiled from melee because it was more balanced. If you take MK out, another character will just rise up as the best and you will complain about them because you're all scrubs.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
I never said they were, just that playing MK makes a large difference in how a player does.
And of course "almost" beating someone doesn't make a difference in the results, but it does say something about the matchup. There's a big difference between getting almost 3-stocked by his MK and leading most of the match against his DDD, a match which easily could have gone either way. My point was that I did a lot better against his DDD than his MK.
Oh and if you wanna do multiple MMs I'd rather do them for $2 a piece or something. I don't like large stakes.
Vik: That's why I picked up G&W, just to fight MK.
I have more practice against MK than any other character, yet I still do better even in matchups I've never played before. Brawl makes me a saaad robot
JCaesar
Smash Hero
No ****, they don't wanna lose the advantage they have over people who don't use MK. The only logical end is for everyone to play MK, but luckily I'm not logical, I prefer fun over money.
AfroQT
Smash Master
This is 100% true, the game hasnt been out long enough for the "best character" to be 100% decided. I in all honesty think Snake is just as good (if not better) then MK.
People are just complaining, instead of learning the matchup they'd rather say lets ban the char.
I dont use MK (i think i used him for 1 set vs a king d3, and only cuz king d3 has a realb ad matchup vs mk) and i don't think he has that much of a advantage over the other top tier characters (falco, GaW, Snake)
AfroQT
Smash Master
funny how 90% of the people asking to ban MK are people who've never played MK (well)
I can play that game to.
its just as illogical on both sides.
R.O.B.O.T.
Smash Cadet
Um, I don't think any characters should be banned. If people are too lazy to deal with a challenge, then they shouldn't be playing smash.
AfroQT
Smash Master
I have no response to this LOL, all i can say is i never had problems with MK (even M2K's btw though i lost, at no point did it seem unbalanced atleast in snake vs MK). Falco, GaW and Snake (I hear diddy kong does well as well, but am not to informed on this) all do well against MK (atleast MY snake)
This is extremely rude to say but, lol have you considered improving at the game? To be SO stumped by MK that you think he deserves a ban.....Iunno what to say.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
I started off by winning that ridiculous wifi wars tournament with a zillion players in it online and everyone said "oh, it's just a fluke".
I started playing in real tournaments that were popping up around the MW and won somewhere over a dozen in a row before I started placing lower; I've never not gotten money from a tournament and have only placed out of the money in singles twice. Once I started losing, people said "oh, he's lost his edge".
Now I main Metaknight, because I didn't like the idea of maining ROB, who sucks vs. MK, and having to play 7 in a row. Which I did. I had choices of maybe G&W or DK or MK.... and chose MK because he was obviously a 50-50 even matchup... and realized MK goes even at worst... so I just main MK and bit the bullet.
So you have fun maining Snake and having uphill battles with D3's and ROB's, and I'll say "****, a G&W; now we're on even ground".
I'm constantly improving at this game, and am pretty good at it as is. I picked up MK because he's the easiest to win with and has an advantage in every matchup save a few. Any and all "counters" that were "discovered" have proven to be one-time deals and only work because MK didn't know the matchup.
toasty
Smash Hero
yeah..made up mind...definitely not banning this char at my tournaments.
The main thing was that I didn't have much information, specifically with who can "deal" with MK. Seems like it's most of the other "top" characters just like it was in Melee. You could argue that the future is doomed to be MK dittos, but considering there are viable options and they seem to be good characters overall, I doubt that'll happen to the scene. But you WILL see more "high/top tier" matchups more often than not in the future...just like in Melee [if you say that it's always Fox dittos or Marth dittos or even Sheik dittos...you either have a really shltty scene, or you're dumb/misinformed]
out of the top characters MK is the easier of them [as most will argue Melee Sheik was] for people to pick up, be decent with, and yield better-than-decent results.
how many times have you heard decent players grumble in Melee about losing to some scrub/n00b-tech Sheik [or even a C-stick Marth, a run-away-laser/uthrow uair spamming Fox, a dsmash Peach, a gay SHL Falco?]? There are things that you can exploit, but only to a certain extent. That's why shltty Sheiks can beat better players who use different characters [not necessarily worse characters, either] but that's also why they can't beat GOOD players. Could you beat good top tier char players in Melee with Samus/Doc? or in some cases: Captain Falcon? Of course. Was it crazy difficult? Probably.
Call me a sell-out but I was a low-tier main for effing EVER in Melee...I was whoopin up on some of the best Spacies, Peaches, and Marths in our area with NESS ...but then our region got a lot better [and proved to be good/decent competition at Pound 3] and it was near IMPOSSIBLE for me to get more than 2 or 3 stocks off. I was losing to mediocre Sheiks that I used to train. Even without chain-grabs. Once I became a competitive player, I had decent placings with Ness and Pikachu...but I knew my skill wasn't represented by my placings. My characters' limitations became too obvious to ignore and be satisfied with.
Luckily, I ****ing love the styles of Marth and Fox (Melee), so I don't feel like a sell-out at all hahaha...
You don't have to go the easiest route, just find a better one.
The main thing was that I didn't have much information, specifically with who can "deal" with MK. Seems like it's most of the other "top" characters just like it was in Melee. You could argue that the future is doomed to be MK dittos, but considering there are viable options and they seem to be good characters overall, I doubt that'll happen to the scene. But you WILL see more "high/top tier" matchups more often than not in the future...just like in Melee [if you say that it's always Fox dittos or Marth dittos or even Sheik dittos...you either have a really shltty scene, or you're dumb/misinformed]
out of the top characters MK is the easier of them [as most will argue Melee Sheik was] for people to pick up, be decent with, and yield better-than-decent results.
how many times have you heard decent players grumble in Melee about losing to some scrub/n00b-tech Sheik [or even a C-stick Marth, a run-away-laser/uthrow uair spamming Fox, a dsmash Peach, a gay SHL Falco?]? There are things that you can exploit, but only to a certain extent. That's why shltty Sheiks can beat better players who use different characters [not necessarily worse characters, either] but that's also why they can't beat GOOD players. Could you beat good top tier char players in Melee with Samus/Doc? or in some cases: Captain Falcon? Of course. Was it crazy difficult? Probably.
Call me a sell-out but I was a low-tier main for effing EVER in Melee...I was whoopin up on some of the best Spacies, Peaches, and Marths in our area with NESS ...but then our region got a lot better [and proved to be good/decent competition at Pound 3] and it was near IMPOSSIBLE for me to get more than 2 or 3 stocks off. I was losing to mediocre Sheiks that I used to train. Even without chain-grabs. Once I became a competitive player, I had decent placings with Ness and Pikachu...but I knew my skill wasn't represented by my placings. My characters' limitations became too obvious to ignore and be satisfied with.
Luckily, I ****ing love the styles of Marth and Fox (Melee), so I don't feel like a sell-out at all hahaha...
You don't have to go the easiest route, just find a better one.
AfroQT
Smash Master
I personally dont think RoB or D3 are uphill for snake. I know about you btw, your really good from my understanding though i've never had the chance to play you. My placings in tourney is almost the same as yours (i finished 1st for 13 tourneys in a row, then top 3 for 3 and then back to 1st since ). If you wanna main MK, go ahead, i honestly am not scared of MK's, but i think there are multiple characters that go even with MK, people are just to busy complaining/trying for a ban to improve.
I didnt mean my post to be insulting either.
Hey_Its_Nacker
Smash Lord
Sooo can this not be a "lets ban MK " thread anymore? also OS its gay that your not comming down for ch4 .
Mr.E
Smash Lord
Not only can I say with confidence that Snake is absolutely NOT a better character than MK overall, but even if it was true it's not nearly the same issue because Snake has obvious major weaknesses in his game that can be used against him. His aerial game is terrible, which makes him bad on certain stages (i.e. Rainbow Cruise) and weak against chaingrabbers (Falco, Pikachu, Dedede) that put him off the stage. He's also weak against characters that outcamp him, such as ROB. In contrast, MK plays well on every stage and against every character. Other than his light weight, which can't really be "used against him" so much as being mere fact, MK has no weaknesses. At least, as far as we currently know...
Pansy.
It's still to your advantage to know how to play other characters. I'm sure you'll be able to play ROB at tournament caliber for at least a bit longer, even continuing to use MK, but that's not what I mean. If a "one-time deal" is good enough to plow through a series of MK players for the next tournament (even if ONLY the next tourney), why not take that advantage? Maybe it'll even prove to be a true character advantage. Experiment is the best way to figure this stuff out.
Learning different characters gives you a better chance of being able to play an advantaged matchup. Why play MK against Snake when you already know how to beat him with ROB, arguably his toughest matchup? MK is merely the "safe" choice, especially for a double blind first game pick, but he's not always the best choice for any matchup and every stage.
Ch0zen0ne
Smash Lord
qft .
soloSHADOWROB
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 299
Actually MK just breaks the game lol
A mediocre MK player can give me trouble just cuz hes MK
But a pro MK players will either beat me or gimmie a good run for my money.
A mediocre MK player can give me trouble just cuz hes MK
But a pro MK players will either beat me or gimmie a good run for my money.
ipitydatfu
Smash Master
Ike likes Florida.
i hope Ike doesnt screw up the electricity cuz this is probably the best thread/discussion about everything
i hope Ike doesnt screw up the electricity cuz this is probably the best thread/discussion about everything
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
This is true; however, learning one character well is, overall, your best chance. The only time you should ever need a secondary is if you are
A) at a disadvantaged matchup
B) the opponent is better than you by a significant margin
C) you don't know the matchup or playstyle you are faced with
I will never have to deal with A every again, save for counterpicks.... maybe about the CPs.
B.... I hope I won't run into. If I do, it would be secondary time.
C? That's ROB time for sure.
AfroQT
Smash Master
Snakes aerial game is slow, but IMO far from terrible, NAIR is ridiculous, and Uair and Bair are difficult to space but the reward is very well worth the risk (Uair is more powerful then Uptilt, kills at decent percents). The Chaingrab thing sucks, but i believe can be worked around, though i have problems with D3's i've never had trouble with falco or pikachu (vs falco i can do 30% to myself through grenades, and no longer have to worry about being spike killed, at that point falcos only advantage vs me is gone). Though RoB can outcamp snake, snake has amazing tools for dealing with campers even RoB, and obviously his heavyness is a great advantage.
But this isnt a snake thread lol.
Honestly if you wanna go MK, then go MK, more power to you. Just do what you gotta to win/have fun, its not a big deal.
CJTHeroofTime
Smash Lord
Edited for stupidity
CJTHeroofTime
Smash Lord
Edited for stupidity... Double post ftl?
lol @ afro on the ROB boardz.
AfroQT
Smash Master
lol @ u on snake boards!
ipitydatfu
Smash Master
hey remember what OS was talking about, dair-ing somebody when they're rolling on the stage after their invincibility frames ran out? it does work. I tried it today at AiB matches thingy
Black Mantis
Smash Hero
Ok I hate to sound like a noob (and forgive if I do) but where can I receive instructions on glide tossing with ROB?
Sudai
Stuff here
It's the same with every character. Oh, and read the thread? I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in there. If not, read stickies until you find it. Either way, read this thread first as it has way too much good info to skip over.
CJTHeroofTime
Smash Lord
Im sorry if I missed the snake discussion, but the other day I played my friend, who used snake, and since we last played he got really good with all of Snake's grenade techniques. I mean unbelievably good for someone who hasn't played any serious tournaments and whatnot. He learned Snake's moveset so well that I had a lot of trouble fighting him while dealing with his unpredictable grenades... Any ROB strategies you have found to work well against grenade-happy snakes? Or should I consider a back-up character?
DonTe
Smash Cadet
Laser when he pulls out a grenade. It will explode on him if its in his hand, or if he doesnt shield in time.
Perfect Shield/Spot Dodge the grenade. Snakes usually snakedash at this time, so prepare to grab.
Catch it and throw it back at him (make sure it wasnt primed).
Read the thread. These were all discussed.
Perfect Shield/Spot Dodge the grenade. Snakes usually snakedash at this time, so prepare to grab.
Catch it and throw it back at him (make sure it wasnt primed).
Read the thread. These were all discussed.
Boolossus
Smash Ace
126 pages man. It can't be easy to pinpoint that one discussion. =P
Boolossus!! ^_____^
Rev Boolossus? Do you remember me? Am I mistaken?
If it is you, HEY! What's up? Good to see you again, you were such a beast.
If not, sorry, haha, and still Hi.