ROB Q&A!! Read this before asking questions...ALL OF IT!

[toasty]

= (






edit: well...at least there's a bright side:

when that happens, Melee may seem viable once again ^_^

 

[JCaesar]

Or MK-free Brawl maybe?

Not that I want to start this debate again, but why ditch the game entirely when there's such an easy fix, if people were only willing to give it a try?

 

[Overswarm]

hold tournaments with MK banned and see how it goes!

 

[JCaesar]

Thumbs and I are going to as soon as we find a venue.

 

[lord karn]

I might start banning MK at my biweeklies.

 

[noodles]

yes, everyone ban mk at their tournaments. maybe people will follow a trend then you will be the majority.

 

[noodles]

of course this is being completely optimistic

 

[JCaesar]

Yay Karn, you're awesome!

 

[Overswarm]

It would be fitting if ROB players started the trend of holding no-MK tournaments

 

[JCaesar]

Actually, that very thing is what makes me uneasy about it. I don't want people to think I want MK banned because I play a character that gets wrecked by MK worse than most. I truly believe Brawl will be a better game overall without him.

 

[Overswarm]

Search "metaknight banned" in the forums and your fears will be alleviated.

 

[Plairnkk]

Hahahah you guys are such huge scrubs, learn to beat MK. So ROB gets ***** by him, pick a character that doesn't.

Snake, falco, lucario all do really well, and there are a few other decent matchups too. In comparison to melee I don't even think MK is as good as fox or marth were, you don't see MK winning every tournament across the country just using MK the whole time like you did with fox/marth in melee.

Hmmm...Best melee players through the ages

Ken - Marth/fox
azen - Marth/fox
m2k - Marth/fox

oh yeah -.-

 

[Overswarm]

Hahahah you guys are such huge scrubs, learn to beat MK. So ROB gets ***** by him, pick a character that doesn't.

Snake, falco, lucario all do really well, and there are a few other decent matchups too. In comparison to melee I don't even think MK is as good as fox or marth were, you don't see MK winning every tournament across the country just using MK the whole time like you did with fox/marth in melee.

Hmmm...Best melee players through the ages

Ken - Marth/fox
azen - Marth/fox
m2k - Marth/fox

oh yeah -.-

There's a reason there are two characters listed and not just "Marth Marth Marth". They both had their ups and downs.

And I did pick a character that does decent to MK.

MK himself.

 

[JCaesar]

If you don't think MK will be completely dominating the tourney scene a year from now, you should get a new crystal ball because yours is broken.

And I picked up G&W specifically for MK. I've noticed that a lot of people have a secondary specifically for dealing with MK. Every other character can be dealt with.

 

[Plairnkk]

Yes overswarm because clearly all the best players in the country use MK and are sweeping tournaments with him alone.

Oh wait no, that's not true at all. Wanna have a rundown of the best of the best brawl players?

Okay, there's M2K who uses MK and d3, and actually has to use d3 to beat a few players he cant beat with MK (namely azen or anyone who uses wario).

Then there's azen who uses Lucario.
Chu who uses Kirby.
Chillin uses Falco/Snake/D3

DSF uses Snake, MK, d3 as well.

I don't see any people who use JUST MK ****** tournaments like you make it seem. Over here we usually have 1-2 MK's in the top 10. You guys are just idiots. Like seriously, really really huge idiots. LMAO

 

[toasty]

I just keep thinking of Akuma, but this isn't quite the same...iunno how I feel about this I hate the char. but a ban? haha maybe for the sake of keeping people "happy" but...still...a ban? on a character? it's not about MK being unbeatable. It's the idea of making the game more appealing competitively...gah. I never seem to land on any sort of decision about this so I'll just be quiet.

 

[frdagaa]

That's pretty much my problem. I don't think MK is unbeatable or anything like that, and the game's only been out for like, half a year, so.... there's still the possibility that MK won't be what I see him becoming. At the same time, I think if MK had never been included in Brawl it would have been a much, much, much better game. I'm fairly convinced that one of the reasons that Snake is on Ankoku's "God" level is the fact that he's one of the only characters, if not the only, that might actually have an advantage on MK.

If you take MK out of the picture, suddenly you open up the game to a lot more characters, and make the playing field a lot more even. Naturally skill is still the most important aspect of Brawl - Chu will still be winning tournaments because he's f***ing Chu. That doesn't mean that MK isn't bad for the game, it just means that he's not totally degenerate, like Akuma.

 

[-mugen-]

Okay, there's M2K who uses MK and d3, and actually has to use d3 to beat a few players he cant beat with MK (namely azen or anyone who uses wario).

Then there's azen who uses Lucario.
Chu who uses Kirby.
Chillin uses Falco/Snake/D3

DSF uses Snake, MK, d3 as well.

Pretty sure Chillin said that he's only going to use MK in tournaments now just so he can **** everyone for the sole purpose of supporting the cause of banning MK.

I'm fairly convinced that one of the reasons that Snake is on Ankoku's "God" level is the fact that he's one of the only characters, if not the only, that might actually have an advantage on MK.

Or there's way too much of a gap between Snake and Wario and not nearly that much between Snake and MK...

 

[JCaesar]

Yes overswarm because clearly all the best players in the country use MK and are sweeping tournaments with him alone.

Oh wait no, that's not true at all. Wanna have a rundown of the best of the best brawl players?

Okay, there's M2K who uses MK and d3, and actually has to use d3 to beat a few players he cant beat with MK (namely azen or anyone who uses wario).

Then there's azen who uses Lucario.
Chu who uses Kirby.
Chillin uses Falco/Snake/D3

DSF uses Snake, MK, d3 as well.

I don't see any people who use JUST MK ****** tournaments like you make it seem. Over here we usually have 1-2 MK's in the top 10. You guys are just idiots. Like seriously, really really huge idiots. LMAO

It's because those players have their own character preferences that matter more to them than strictly winning 100% of the time *gasp*. If they were only playing to win money, they'd be using MK. Some of them apparently still like to have fun with the game, even in tournament. They consistently win because they are simply playing on a different level than everyone else and they don't need to play as MK to win tourneys. Not that the characters they're using are bad, they just aren't the best.

Why do Azen and Chillin go double MK when you counterpick them to a nonneutral stage? It's because they don't like those stages and it pretty much guarantees them victory. It's their "punishment" for picking a "gay" stage. Why don't they use MK on neutrals? They don't want to, that's it.

DSF is a little different, and OS falls in the same boat. They aren't on the same level as people like Azen, and they can't just win any tournament with any character they want, so they both moved to MK because they had to if they want to win.

The point is, most of the top players don't like MK, and that's the only reason he isn't dominating. It's their choice who they win tourneys with, the specific character they're using doesn't matter much (though they're all still high on the tier list for sure).

 

[toasty]

Just like Chillin (EDIT: ****, I thought mugen said Chu), apparently, said that...except his wording was "to show everyone how dumb this character is." which is why he went all MK at the 2nd set of Grand Finals at Jubilee a couple weeks ago. The first set was beyond exciting when Chu was Kirby and Chillin used DDD/Snake/ZSS. Seeing Chu take Chillin's MK to the 5th match with Kirby was pretty exciting, but mostly as a concept

heh, I wonder how massive turnouts would be if someone dared to ban MK. I know a good number of people in my area who said they'd gladly enter if it weren't for MK.

I can only see it being done for the sake of Smash's heart. But not because of similar programming flaws that Akuma's design highlights in SF2 Turbo. "similar" only to the extent that there are some stupid qualities to MKs design that upset the balance. Not because he has anything as infinitely ******** as Akuma's moveset/design.

 

[ipitydatfu]

so umm, yeah, sorry about MK the retardedly hard character discussion. but really, how do you DI when MK upB's you, all i know is thati've been doing it wrong cuz, im being sent off in a semi spike angle (like when link edgegaurds spaces with upB)

 

[Overswarm]

Your DI has not much effect... it's generally where he hits you. DI up and towards or towards MK, and you've got the best you can get.

 

[ipitydatfu]

oh ok then, thats the only thing i dont like about MK his ******** upB

 

[toasty]

Fu...if only you knew you'll find out one day. *hug, in advance*

 

[omegawhitemage]

lol yeah his up-b is the least of the problems with him. But I still refuse to change, for the simple fact that robot is the only character I have fun playing as. MK isn't even my hardest match-up right now. And I never lose to any local ones but would the game be better without him? God yes. I just see no reason to ban him this early in the game's lifespan despite how soulcrushingly difficult he makes it to win without him. I hold out hope that there is something we haven't discovered yet that will make it better.

 

[ipitydatfu]

actually at the moment, that is the only thing i hate about MK for now (what OS did to me with the upB was too disheartening), the other stuff doesnt soul break me as much

*hugs back*

 

[frdagaa]

lol yeah his up-b is the least of the problems with him. But I still refuse to change, for the simple fact that robot is the only character I have fun playing as. MK isn't even my hardest match-up right now. And I never lose to any local ones but would the game be better without him? God yes. I just see no reason to ban him this early in the game's lifespan despite how soulcrushingly difficult he makes it to win without him. I hold out hope that there is something we haven't discovered yet that will make it better.

This is pretty much my situation to the T. Then again, OWM also lives in an area with competitive players.... I haven't been able to find an MK in my area that gives me trouble, but I know that's 'cause they suck more than anything else.

 

[Mr.E]

I've dedicated myself to trying to learn ZSS as a secondary except I need people to play her against to improve it... Unless you're selling out and maining MK straight up, it's still a better option to learn a [presumably] neutral matchup to fight MK with than it is to just play an MK ditto. Surprise factor and better knowledge of the matchup is about the only advantage anyone CAN get against an MK, so I say take what you can get.

MK's Up-B sends you nearly straight up if he hits you with the startup or on the way up. It "semi-spikes" if he hits you past the top of his trajectory, once he starts looping back around to go into the glide.

 

[AfroQT]

IF anyone compares MK to Akuma, you should seriously shoot yourself for being ********.

MK is nothing like Akuma, and MK is definitely not worthy of a ban.

 

[toasty]

sorry -__-

What I should have said [was hurrying with posts since I'm not supposed to be online at work aside from my lunch break] was he's NOT like Akuma in that his moveset is hella broken [trust me...Akuma's is beyond what people say is "broken" about any top/god tier character in any of the Smash games], but the ban or "soft ban" [in Japan there's no enforced ban but all good/top players have a tacit agreement to never use him in tourney] on MK would have slightly similar grounds as the Akuma ban purely because true competition for money would eventually drive the tournament scene to MK dittos just as people feared the SFII Turbo scene becoming Akuma dittos.

Didn't mean to imply that the character designs were similar, just the situation and the reasoning behind the ban. Unfortunately, for people who want MK out, there isn't enough ground to really support that fear. I hope >_<

That's what it would take, though. The scene would have to be driven to the top level of competition being MK dittos. But to me, that's the ONLY thing that may merit, at most, a "soft ban" on MK.

I'm just speaking logically...not necessarily my position for a character to be banned, even if it IS Metaknight. That's not to say I won't attend a tournament without MK. But I won't push the idea. If I host one, it'll be for shiz'n'gigz...but nothing major [unless it has a great response hahaha].


Personally: I just wanna be able to beat this character with ROB. Then again, I was a Ness main who tried to beat top tiers in Melee >_>

NAAAACKKKERRRRRR: can you still beat Plank's Metaknight with ROB? If so...is it mostly based on personal experience with him? [no homo]

 

[ipitydatfu]

all i know is that P Diddy aint got **** on ROB http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEeQFe2thzM

 

[Krayn]

I looked through a bunch of videos, but do you know any really good ones of ROB vs Snake? Ones where i could learn off of? Thanks.

 

[frdagaa]

Ummmm.... Any of the ones in the video thread? Maxxxpower's vids are (in my opinion) the best showcase of anti-Snake. But seriously, the ones in the video thread would be all people would suggest anyways.

 

[ipitydatfu]

yeah maxxx's vids are a good example, but it takes time and practice to play like that, if not, you could be easily be punished

 

[Crizthakidd]

do you guys pivot grab a lot. i see that alot now like pple sometimes walk away form attacks and come back with ROB. his grab game is ridiculous and i see him as the shield grabber of this game .

 

[-mugen-]

What I should have said [was hurrying with posts since I'm not supposed to be online at work aside from my lunch break] was he's NOT like Akuma in that his moveset is hella broken [trust me...Akuma's is beyond what people say is "broken" about any top/god tier character in any of the Smash games], but the ban or "soft ban" [in Japan there's no enforced ban but all good/top players have a tacit agreement to never use him in tourney] on MK would have slightly similar grounds as the Akuma ban purely because true competition for money would eventually drive the tournament scene to MK dittos just as people feared the SFII Turbo scene becoming Akuma dittos.

You're just defining what a soft ban is right? For a second I thought you said that top Japanese players have agreed not to play with MK.

 

[toasty]

haha yeah I was just defining the soft ban with respect to Akuma

also: pivot grab is great. I keep forgetting to implement this into my game. Like dashing at them to bait a shield grab but you dash back a bit, pivot-grab [since it covers extra awesome distance] or jab them once [they may try to shield when they land if they were in the air so they can shield-grab the next jab] and then do a pivot-grab...things like that.

 

[AfroQT]

I could understand the soft ban, which i could see happening in the future, but a full ban definitely is out of the question.

I honestly dont have problems with MK's, i fought M2K's MK at FAST and though i lost, all 3 games were still close, at no point did i feel as if meta knight was this impossible to beat killing machine.

 

[Plairnkk]

I could understand the soft ban, which i could see happening in the future, but a full ban definitely is out of the question.

I honestly dont have problems with MK's, i fought M2K's MK at FAST and though i lost, all 3 games were still close, at no point did i feel as if meta knight was this impossible to beat killing machine.

Probably because you are a talented player who, rather than complaing, learns the matchup and adapts to MK's gayness.

Tornado is extremely easy to avoid/punish, up+b is very predictable, etc. Don't get me wrong I think MK is the best, but it's definitely not nearly bad enough to warrant a ban. 99% of the people I would wreck with MK (jcaes you are a perfect example of this) I would wreck with my secondaries. Jcaes you aren't losing to random metaknights, you're losing to people who are already better than you who do play metaknight.

 

[JCaesar]

I will MM any of your secondaries, $5.

I **** all of Yoster's secondaries, and can barely beat his MK.

I can beat all of Lukky's secondaries, and his MK ***** me.

I almost beat M2K's DDD, and his MK ***** me (all in tourney).

I ***** Kirbstir's MK in tourney ... hmm that doesn't quite fit