Regarding outbursts, tantrums, anger, and disrespect.

[Xyzz]

In standard German we have the double negatives canceling out and making a positive as well, but in the Bavarian dialect we have some cases where they are used to strengthen the negative. Talk about inconsistency ....

 

[Kal]

For what it's worth, I think English is a very goofy language with too many irregularities and twists, and it REALLY needs somebody to prune it and make it make sense. So... you're forgiven :D

I don't think this would be possible, given the language's history and the diversity of dialects.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Haha, don't take it hard, we all get embarrased sometimes . And at least you did it with style; it was ceremonially your thousandth message on these boards =].

Omg I died when I realized this lool xD

E:

Thanks Wobbles, I apologize because I think I wrote my thousand post drunk

In Finnish, double negatives are the standard, right? So you would not write "he does not go anywhere," but instead write "he does not go nowhere." I figure this might explain your earlier misunderstanding.

To be honest I don't even know, I presume double negatives are prohibited by the grammar altogether. Meaning they don't cancel each other out, they are non-existant. I know in English they cancel each other out making the sentence positive but that didn't seem to make sense in the context of the post.

E:

English is cool, my only real gripe is with the fact that you can't really know how a word is pronounced until you hear it.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Well its like that for a lot of languages...
Most of them actually...

Anyway, so after making a little rant here (which I deleted) i've become a lot more possitive and feel good about the game again ^^
yey venting ^^

so yea.

 

[Blu]

So I'm a lazy-*** mother****er and I didn't read all nine pages and 124 posts in this thread. If the point I'm about to make has already been mentioned, just ignore this...

All of this, of course, is taking place next to your opponent, who is incredibly disappointed to have lost. He has to sit and watch you celebrate with tons of people who are excited for you, knowing that it could have been him, and it's hurtful after all of his time investment to have made the mistakes that led to his defeat. He remains calm and stoic, while you parade your victory around in front of him.

Because you're happy. And it's great. And this is totally okay in the eyes of the community, to basically wave your victory in the other guy's face.

I actually just made it sound like I disapprove of that kind of celebration. And in truth, I don't. But it's something to keep in mind.

Celebrating in front of someone who is the byproduct--the loser--of what made your win possible isn't the same as rubbing it in their faces. In fact, denying that person the chance to celebrate goes against that which makes us human: our emotions. Since we are all looking to improve ourselves, if positive emotions and the expression of them is one method, who are you to deny this of anyone?

The only reason the loser is upset is because their expectations of the result of the match were not met. But this does not give them the authority to determine another's course of action, especially when something as simple as a celebratory jest cannot be proven to be a result of smugness to begin with.

Don't set expectations beyond that of supporting the game's soul (competition), and you have no reason not to celebrate--even when the win was not your own.

 

[Wobbles]

The point of that is that it's expected you will completely control your emotion out of "respect" for the other person, but only if your emotions are negative. We're all here for the same reason, to compete. Why should I expect that you WON'T be disappointed in the outcome if it doesn't favor you? Particularly if it's because of something really, really ****ty? On the other hand, you can celebrate pretty damn extremely without people thinking you've intruded into the realm of disrespect.

And in case I haven't reiterated the point enough: I don't think it's good to be throwing your controller and shouting ****-words every time you lose a pools match, just because it's "reasonable for you to be disappointed about a loss." I mostly just want this community to treat its members with more respect, whether as winners OR losers, even (and sometimes especially) when they're emotionally distraught.

 

[Blu]

There truly isn't any unfairness with being told to control one's negative emotions and tolerate excessive cheering by the opponent. I think the imbalance you're experiencing is that you presume an opponent is either (1) outright cheering for the other's loss because it secured their win, or (2) is not being courteous simply because they refuse to mask the joy that could have potentially been their opponent's.

Understanding that these would not even be an issue had you been an neutral bystander, the unfairness you're perceiving is a result of the anxiety of loss, and possibly envy... not rational thinking.

=

I made a post on "competition without strictly trying to win" on CFL Melee's Facebook group. If you're curious, I can add it here so that you can survey it for potential errors. ^-^
I honestly think a lot of people here could use the info.

 

[Wobbles]

Umm. I've been a neutral bystander, and on BOTH sides of the victory/loss spectrum. I have seen friends win hype sets, lose hype sets to amazing plays, and also to stupid ****. I've lost sets to stupid ****. I've won sets because of stupid ****. The end result is that I'm significantly more understanding of the causes behind somebody's emotions than a lot of other people, as I've been present for ALL of it, and also EXPERIENCED all of it.

I'm not sure how this leads to an irrational viewpoint.

A viewpoint which you seem to have missed, anyhow. Which is not "don't control yourself" but "don't label people as incompetents when they get really upset." The side-point, which you're overemphasizing, is that I *noted* people are more comfortable with extreme displays of joy. This is mostly because those don't make them uncomfortable, and it doesn't have anything to do with the principle they're claiming to uphold, i.e., "control yourself." If it's not about self-control, then what IS it about? "Don't make people uncomfortable." What if your joy makes the loser uncomfortable, particularly concerning unfortunate losses? Nobody cares, because it doesn't make *them* feel uncomfortable.

When my opponent is excessively distressed by a loss to me, I try to show respect for that and give them space before exhibiting my joy. I'd argue this is more rational and considerate than your viewpoint.

AND AGAIN THIS ISN'T THE MAIN POINT 3KLERUARUITYGPAESRKAEUYP

 

[Wake]

Thank you Wobbles.

Edit: Whoa, I posted this in response to his defense of his grammar immediately after his post. Guess I got ninja'd.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Wobbles posts are so fun to read.

 

[Blu]

ksjandksmaidomaksjnasddnoasj first double post ever

 

[Blu]

LOL! I'm sorry for sidetracking, Wobbles. I understand what you meant now. =p

Also, I'll see if I can find that post anyhow. It'll be fun to reread.

EDIT:

Found it! =D (Well, the summarized version anyways.)

True competition should be practiced with none other than oneself:

Winning a match should be merely a byproduct of the player's goal to become more consistent and improve. Additionally, losing a match should be embraced; for without loss, the need for improvement could in no way be realized--let alone the specifications thereof.

Caring about the outcome of any one match puts the player dreadfully close to the credentials that could potentially halt, or falsely present to others, their improvement and should be readily avoided.

 

[Kal]

Wobbles point that people should be more respectful is a really good one. It's usually people who have no issues controlling negative emotions giving facile advice; "just don't get angry" is no more useful advice to someone with anger issues than "just don't get drunk" is to an alcoholic. So, while we certainly shouldn't condone that sort of behavior, we should at least empathize with those who go through it.

 

[Wobbles]

And in case anybody thinks I'm really taking this ALL THAT SERIOUSLY, I wrote you a song.

Hey, I just beat you,
you're going crazy.
You break controllers,
this must be AZ.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I died xD
10deads

 

[Divinokage]

Wobbles, I do have a question. Why do you care so much about what others think of you?

 

[Dark Hart]

"And then there are people who put immense pressure on themselves to succeed. Who define themselves by how well they do at activities, and who put their self-esteem at risk by even ATTEMPTING something, and who conclude the failure is an indictment of their worth as a person."

Me

 

[Wobbles]

Wobbles, I do have a question. Why do you care so much about what others think of you?

Because it's an ingrained mental habit instilled in me from self-inflicted pressures during my development when I didn't know any better.

 

[cannedbread]

Wobbles, I do have a question. Why do you care so much about what others think of you?

i think it's not so much "caring what others think," it's more like "before you shoot baseless criticisms, here's why i did it."

 

[GMhyprid]

Hopefully this relates to a point Wobbles has been making.

Don't make huge negative generalizations on someone's character because of one bad event. We all have moments in which we do something we regret in a strong emotional state. It's something so human and relatable that people shouldn't look down on it so much. Almost anyone who says, "That guy is a spoiled immature child for raging" is being hypocritical if they don't think they are one also.

Maybe Person X making the criticism doesn't rage while at tournaments, but being human, there are certain situations (Situation Y) in which he has more difficulty controlling is temper. Someone could just as easily make some completely unfair judgement of Person X because because of how he acted in Situation Y. We all have Situation Ys, so I believe raging after a disappointing loss should not be treated so harshly, even if it's not a good thing.

Judge others as fairly as you judge yourself. Don't call some who raged after a disappointing loss a terrible human being and then give yourself much more leniency when you rage in your Situation Y. Treat the other person with the respect you'd like to be treated.

 

[Divinokage]

Because it's an ingrained mental habit instilled in me from self-inflicted pressures during my development when I didn't know any better.

But now you do know better so then why wouldn't go participate in tournaments like you used to?

 

[Morin0]

Kage, the keyword in Wobbles' post is habit and maybe to a certain extent, instilled.

It's like if someone asked me why do I write my B's in a certain way and I respond by saying that it was a habit instilled on me since elementary school. So it's not so much a conscious habit but one that you do without thinking about it.

One can know better and be aware of their habit, but it would still be hard to change that habit.


tl;dr changing a habit (such as the one Wobbles mentioned) is easier said than done.

 

[LLDL]

So it sounds to me like some players get involuntary bursts of frustration that cause them to throw their controllers. It was habitual at a young aged and can't be helped. No

Yes, the habit of throwing it whenever he gets angry or loses may have been instilled in a person when he was younger....they are predisposed to do it, I understand that. But you make a conscious choice to do it, right there, at the moment. We're adults, we know better. You can't tell me that you can't control your anger or frustration for 2 seconds...shake hands and then go cry in the bathroom like I've seen a few smashers do (lol) but if you are unable to or absolutely can not stop from embarrassing yourself...fail.

 

[Divinokage]

Oh wow.. how many times have I heard that a lot of things are easier said than done.. if changing anything worthwhile was easy, man we would be living in a strange world. Though saying like that makes it seem you won't actually deal with the problem and leave it for another day because it's not that important for you to change it right here and now. Anyways, yes I understand changing bad habits is hard but you should always try your best everyday to realize every consequences of your actions. If you can do that, it's already much easier to motivate yourself to be a better person.

 

[Stylez]

can not stop from embarrassing yourself...fail.

That seems like a big indicator that they're not in the right mind-set though, right?

Those few who refuse to accept defeat (despite their opponents accomplishments) are the ones making conscious, disrespectful decisions. And they are usually more passive about how they carry out their gayness.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Its not about refusing to accept defeat.

 

[Morin0]

So it sounds to me like some players get involuntary bursts of frustration that cause them to throw their controllers. It was habitual at a young aged and can't be helped. No

I didn't say that. I just said it's hard.

Yes, the habit of throwing it whenever he gets angry or loses may have been instilled in a person when he was younger....they are predisposed to do it, I understand that. But you make a conscious choice to do it, right there, at the moment. We're adults, we know better. You can't tell me that you can't control your anger or frustration for 2 seconds...shake hands and then go cry in the bathroom like I've seen a few smashers do (lol) but if you are unable to or absolutely can not stop from embarrassing yourself...fail.

Rationality goes away when emotion takes over. Though I have been saying this the entire time that people who do get upset like Wobbles should say GGS, shake hands, or something, and then leave the venue or somewhere where there's nobody so they can vent. Also, this:

That seems like a big indicator that they're not in the right mind-set though, right?

Oh wow.. how many times have I heard that a lot of things are easier said than done.. if changing anything worthwhile was easy, man we would be living in a strange world. Though saying like that makes it seem you won't actually deal with the problem and leave it for another day because it's not that important for you to change it right here and now. Anyways, yes I understand changing bad habits is hard but you should always try your best everyday to realize every consequences of your actions. If you can do that, it's already much easier to motivate yourself to be a better person.

Well, I'm a Zen Master according to Battlecow's post so...ha! And I agree with what you've said. However, me saying that fixing Wobbles' condition is easier said than done, I didn't mean it as a cop-out to not do anything about it. Which is why I agree that slowly, but surely, you can work through it.

 

[Wobbles]

So it sounds to me like some players get involuntary bursts of frustration that cause them to throw their controllers. It was habitual at a young aged and can't be helped. No

Yes, the habit of throwing it whenever he gets angry or loses may have been instilled in a person when he was younger....they are predisposed to do it, I understand that. But you make a conscious choice to do it, right there, at the moment. We're adults, we know better. You can't tell me that you can't control your anger or frustration for 2 seconds...shake hands and then go cry in the bathroom like I've seen a few smashers do (lol) but if you are unable to or absolutely can not stop from embarrassing yourself...fail.

1) I wasn't talking about throwing controllers. I was referring to what Kage said about caring what others think of you. So... you missed the point?

2) Sounds like you've never dealt with serious emotional problems. I'm happy for you. But even so, you're missing the point; "knowing better" isn't always the answer. If anything, "knowing better" can make it worse, piling guilt regarding one's lack of self-control onto the stress of the situation.

Like... I have a tough time explaining this to people. Because unless you've experienced that loss of self-control, it's hard to imagine it. You're accustomed to your lucidity and awareness in difficult situations. You're considering the scenario USING that lucidity. So how are you going to imagine not having it?When you start throwing out words like "fail" and "no," you are clearly judging from a position of ignorance.

I don't think it's okay. Do I have to repeat this a gajillion times? I'M NOT CONDONING THE BEHAVIOR. I'm trying to help people realize that the mindless judgment that you're throwing out here DOES NOT HELP. And it doesn't always accurately reflect the situation.

"Hey man listen. I know you're depressed about everything that's happened to you lately, but I really don't feel comfortable when you're this sad. So could you get over it? You're supposed to be an adult, and your depressive condition is making me unhappy." My emotional distress is making *you* unhappy? How do you think *I* feel? I am the one experiencing it.

There are things that don't help the person overcome difficult situations. Self-pity is one of them. "Hey man it sucks you feel this way, and there's nothing you can do about it. You're the victim here." Nope, I don't agree with that viewpoint. "You're a ****ing baby. Man up." Nope, not that helpful either (unless the person IS just being a baby, in which case this might be what they need to hear).

"Look, when you go through this, you hurt yourself and you upset people around you. You need to take a look at what's causing this and try to find a solution, for the sake of yourself and others. If you can't handle competition, don't compete. If you can, but something else is bothering you, take care of that before you put yourself in this stressful situation." That's a lot more helpful. I find it weird that many people struggle with giving that kind of advice, and opt for "gtfo you idiot haha what a baby," instead.

 

[JOS.fm]

Hey man listen. I know you're depressed about everything that's happened to you lately, but I really don't feel comfortable when you're this sad. So could you get over it? You're supposed to be an adult, and your depressive condition is making me unhappy

 

[Wobbles]

Hey man listen. I know you're a smartass about everything that's happened to you lately, but I really don't feel comfortable when you're this sarcastic. So could you get over it? You're supposed to be an adult, and your smartass condition is making me RAGERAGERAGERAGERAGERAGERAGERAGE.

 

[Tee ay eye]

And in case anybody thinks I'm really taking this ALL THAT SERIOUSLY, I wrote you a song.

Hey, I just beat you,
you're going crazy.
You break controllers,
this must be AZ.

will you marry me

 

[bertbusdriver]

Yo wobbles is this (partially) why you pulled out of FC and won't be entering the big house? Don't feel obligated to answer...

 

[Battlecow]

yeah, when are you gonna start taking names at big tournaments again?

Actually not sure if I like your matches or your commentary better

carry on

 

[Deleted member]

thread sucks and is only fuel for nobodies to take shots at wobbles

as for people raging i dont give a **** as long as they don't physically assault anyone, playing like **** and losing is a pretty terrible feeling

playing ur best and getting ***** though, way better

 

[choknater]

the strongest controller throw i saw was from julian kao

 

[Sinji]

If it was me vs javi fanals, and he won I wouldn't feel anyway. I had fun at apex 2012 (him and shiz). When you play Javi, you feel as if you can express yourself and play for fun instead of play to win.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yes, the habit of throwing it whenever he gets angry or loses may have been instilled in a person when he was younger....they are predisposed to do it, I understand that. But you make a conscious choice to do it, right there, at the moment. We're adults, we know better. You can't tell me that you can't control your anger or frustration for 2 seconds...shake hands and then go cry in the bathroom like I've seen a few smashers do (lol) but if you are unable to or absolutely can not stop from embarrassing yourself...fail.

I don't think you understand just how satisfying it is to throw your controller with the force of a 1000 suns while you're extremely frustrated. The only thing I'm scared of is the bouncing the controller splitting someone's skull.
Crying doesn't even come close to hitting a wall, throwing your controller, whipping with your belt, punching your opponent in the face or whatever you do to take out your anger.

EDIT: I'd advice against the latter though.

 

[Kal]

whatever you do to take out your anger.

 

[Popopidopop]

Wobbles, if you aren't going to be competing in alot of tourneys, would you consider maybe focusing on commentating instead? I really liked your commentary at FC!
I'm sure alot of people did, mostly (I think) because it really does take top lvl experience to know and tell what's going on in the high lvl matches, and you certainly have that!
Informative casters are my favourite, and I'm sure you can find a co-caster thats all for the hype too!

 

[iRobinhoood]

thread sucks and is only fuel for nobodies to take shots at wobbles

This.

When I play bad I just have to take a break walk away and come back and watch what I did wrong.