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Regarding outbursts, tantrums, anger, and disrespect.

Wobbles

Desert Eskimo
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
2,881
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Hi! Some of you might know me as the guy who threw a controller after losing to Silent Specter at Mango Juice back in early 2009.

So let's talk about throwing controllers.

You just won the BIGGEST TOURNAMENT OF YOUR LIFE. You jump up and celebrate because it came down to the fifteenth game of three distinct 3/5 matches against an incredible player, one of the best in the world! And you won! Hooray. Your friends are there. They are cheering for you. You are jumping up and down with joy. This may be the best day of your gaming career. You might even cry.

All of this, of course, is taking place next to your opponent, who is incredibly disappointed to have lost. He has to sit and watch you celebrate with tons of people who are excited for you, knowing that it could have been him, and it's hurtful after all of his time investment to have made the mistakes that led to his defeat. He remains calm and stoic, while you parade your victory around in front of him.

Because you're happy. And it's great. And this is totally okay in the eyes of the community, to basically wave your victory in the other guy's face.

I actually just made it sound like I disapprove of that kind of celebration. And in truth, I don't. But it's something to keep in mind.

Now instead imagine that you CAN'T celebrate like that, because it wasn't an incredible play that won you the tournament. It was him, SD'ing, or whiffing something incredibly easy that should have won it for HIM, but instead gets him killed and secures it for you. You just feel kind of bad. And he's mad.

Very mad.

Because this loss doesn't just represent the sum total of the mistakes he made in the game, or set, or series, or whatever. This point in time is the culmination of ALL his effort and investment into the game. Years of effort and training and struggle in an attempt to reach a level that would get him to these finals, in a botched and blundered moment that he will remember for some time to come.

There is sacrifice involved in this. Potential opportunities that he missed in order to practice more and get better. And he screwed it up. There is nobody to blame but himself. All of that time, in this moment, feels like a waste. And with the added pressure of the desire to succeed, with the pressure of all those people watching, he crumbled, and lost it. And all that comes pouring out because with all of the OTHER pressures and emotions inside, there's nowhere for it to go. We aren't even going to psychoanalyze him as a human being and go into any other anxieties or tendencies that could further amplify this. It doesn't have anything to do with him feeling like nobody else is allowed to win. It doesn't have anything to do with a superiority complex. He wanted it so badly that he sacrificed innumerable hours, immeasurable time and energy, put himself up on the stage, and screwed up big time. So he throws his controller.

What an *******, right? What a baby.

I can't understand that response at all.

There are certain types of responses to losing. You might throw a controller because you can't handle losing, EVER, and if somebody does beat you, it's because ****'s unfair and broken and stupid and eff this game. Not really any respect for this person. He just wants to win, not feel the achievement of being a successful competitor. He'll rub it in people's faces and be proud of stomping seven year olds. This guy has a lot of growing up to do.

Then there are people who have mental imbalances, and will immediately overreact to negative stimuli due to any number of factors. These people need medical/psychological help. Calling them "babies" or "spoiled" or "poor sports" completely ignores any kind of root problem, and basically derives from the school of "walk it off," where you ignore the causes of a problem and assume that the solution can be found if you would just try a little harder for god's sake.

And then there are people who put immense pressure on themselves to succeed. Who define themselves by how well they do at activities, and who put their self-esteem at risk by even ATTEMPTING something, and who conclude the failure is an indictment of their worth as a person.

No. It's not a healthy attitude. But it is a far cry from being spoiled or stupid. It stems from the very same desires that healthy individuals have, which are desires to be successful and achieve self-affirmation through what they do and how they are. It becomes skewed when individual points of failure are overemphasized as a complete representation of one's character.

This isn't something you look at and say, "what an ******* and an idiot." This is something you try to understand and help, especially if you have an ounce of sympathy for the person in that situation.

You may not though. You may not understand what it's like at all. You may not have experienced the power that those negative emotions can have when they reach an explosive bottleneck. It is easy to say that you would behave differently and judge a given behavior when you are completely separate from it.

I'm in 100% agreement that people shouldn't throw controllers. I think people should move towards more positive attitudes where their selves and behaviors are concerned.

But I know from experience and from observing outbursts and frustrations, sometimes long-standing ones with deep roots, both in other people and myself, that calling somebody a toddler or a moron or a sore loser for acting that way can completely fail to address real underlying issues and does nothing but demonstrate your own ignorance.

So stop. You sound like an *******.

*

Let's relate that to respecting your opponent.

Respecting your opponent is not about "not getting angry if you lose," and "not acting too happy if you win." It's about acknowledging the efforts of the other guy and acknowledging that he's a person with his own attitudes and investments in the game. It's about saying, "whatever actually happened, the outcome is the outcome. No matter how angry I am about it, I won't try and debate whether it should have been one way or the other, because it is how it is."

When you john and say, "you only won because of your character," you disrespect your opponent. When you john and say, "you only won because of a gay counterpick," you disrespect your opponent. When you say, "I should have won, I'm better than you, and you got lucky, and you're a scrub," you disrespect your opponent. When you stand up and breakdance and start shouting, "I'm the best ****ing player in the world, unf unf unf, look at how good I am," you disrespect your opponent. When you shake their hand and say, "good game man," then go online and talk about how unimpressed you were with the result, and how if things had gone differently you would have won, and how your opponent was not actually any good... well, you're disrespecting your opponent.

When you throw a controller, what you are REALLY SAYING with that action is: "I'm so frustrated and disappointed with this outcome that I couldn't control my actions." Maybe your underlying motivation is, "I should always win and if I lose I'm going to throw a controller because I'm a giant baby." This is possible.

It's also possible that your underlying motivation is simply you wanted so badly to win that the emotional whiplash of failing to achieve your goal left you out of control of your behavior. Not healthy at all, no. But is that identical to demonstrating disrespect for your opponent? No, it's not that either. It is what it is, an uncontrolled expression of frustration, anger, and disappointment.

Players shouldn't throw controllers. Is that in dispute? No, it isn't. Players shouldn't disrespect their opponents either, whether it's through an inappropriate display of joy at victory, or a series of whining and complaints when they lose. I don't think that's in dispute either.

What I take issue with is some people's complete failure to even ATTEMPT to understand what might be going on in somebody's head when they experience the cluster**** of negative emotions that would lead somebody to punch a wall, or kick a chair, or throw a controller. That's disrespectful too.
 

Toya

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
80
Location
Crystal Lake, IL.
Players should remember that they are playing a game; even a child can remember such a trivial thing.

Respect for the adversary is the mark of a true warrior; disrespect is the mark of a fool.
 

Warhawk

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
1,086
Location
Mt. Pleasant/Highland, MI
Most people I think understand when a player is frustrated with themself and physically shows it, like when you or PP tossed your controller after losing a very frustrating match, as opposed to the person who complains the entire set and throws their controller and blames the controller and gives the other player no credit. The people who don't get it and think the outburst shows that the person is a baby are just ignorant. I remember all the people that got hung up on you throwing your controller were all like youtubers and non-players and failed to acknowledge that you did in fact give SS his credit after the match.
 

Bad Cupboard

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
168
Location
University Place, WA
Most people I think understand when a player is frustrated with themself and physically shows it, like when you or PP tossed your controller after losing a very frustrating match, as opposed to the person who complains the entire set and throws their controller and blames the controller and gives the other player no credit. The people who don't get it and think the outburst shows that the person is a baby are just ignorant. I remember all the people that got hung up on you throwing your controller were all like youtubers and non-players and failed to acknowledge that you did in fact give SS his credit after the match.
I pretty much agree with this. There's a huge difference between being visibly upset that you lost a match, which is understandable, and johnning, whining, or just being a poor sport in general.
 

BEHR

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
5,371
Location
NC
You Win some you lose some.

Good stuff Wobbles clarifying on this matter to players in the community who dont understand where being upset comes from and why players have certain reactions to losing.
 

Twinkles

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
1,022
Location
SoCal
I wish you just responded to my post in the original thread Wobbles =[

But I agree with you, and I recall someone else's comment talking about how violent outbursts are unacceptable because of asian upbringing. But, I dunno, I've had asian upbringing and I feel it's only encouraged violent outbursts from me because of increasing pressure to be successful and incredible shame in the face of failure. It's problematic behavior to be sure, but it's something that can happen to even the nicest people so it's not something to be used to condemn someone as a whole.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I've thrown controllers. Lots of them. The game can be frustrating.
 

darkatma

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
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Location
St Louis, Missouri/Fremont, CA
FWIW, I don't think it's a great or healthy thing to throw controllers. I'm just not going to attach some stigma to the action that means if you ever get angry and throw one, it means you're a 2 year old. And I'm going to defend MDZ because he didn't start ranting and raving about how he "deserved to win" and how he "should have won." His outburst was a result of a high level of emotional investment and self-inflicted pressure to win. Not because he thinks he should be the winner all the time.

You look at somebody throwing a controller and think, "what a baby, what a poor sport, how immature." That's where your attempt to understand his mindset stops. So I lose respect for you when you do that.
I appreciate your response immensely and thank you for giving me insight into some of the issues underlying the frustration. I feel like I should apologize for making blanket statements about controller throwers, and I realize that if I do end up playing MDZ or you, or my friend Julian Kao, you guys most likely wouldn't be chucking controllers anyways. While I care about the game a lot and understand people's drives to improve and to win (I have the same drive), I feel like the controller chucking would be more justified (in my eyes) if the controller had been malfunctioning during the match. To me, throwing it is more of a projection of emotion, similar to taking it out on your dog on a bad day. I realize the analogy is garbage, since controllers aren't animate, but y'know, good controllers are hard to come by.

I'll definintely keep your post in mind and think more along the lines of "he's disappointed", but I think we can all agree something should/can be done about people blowing up after matches, no matter how invested in the game they are.

Great post by the way, challenging people to see the other side is definitely important.
 

Wobbles

Desert Eskimo
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
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Gilbert, AZ
Something should indeed be done. Something infinitely more helpful to a person with a troubled mindset than "quit being a baby."

People overgeneralize and caricaturize things as a means of saving time and mental energy. It's a lot EASIER to say, "somebody threw a controller in a fit of anger. That makes him stupid/childish/whatever." Is it accurate? Is that a complete portrait of the causes leading to that kind of behavior? Probably not. When you and other people reinforce that amongst each other, you only ostracize the person who--probably--needs help more than anything.

That kind of behavior makes people uncomfortable (and rightly so, because if people were A-OK with such obviously unhealthy actions this world would look a lot different). Expressing that discomfort through mindless judgment and mockery doesn't make the other side look good either, though. Except to themselves, I guess, and since there are more of those people, maybe they don't mind?
 

♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡

Anti-Illuminati
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,863
I've never thrown controllers (dropped sometimes though which counts as the same), but I tend to get frustrated, even angry when playing this game.
I have developed few strategies to cope with this.

To be honest, I have never even seen anyone throw a controller.

To me, this kind of behaviour is, and always will be a sign of bad sportmanship & disrespect towards the other person.
If a person absolutely cannot help with their anger outbursts & throwing controllers, I at least expect them to apologize for behaving rudely, because such behaviour is rude towards others. I also expect them to focus on their issue.
I don't respect players who throw their controllers on a frequent basis.

All this talk about mental illnesses explaining anger tantrums & outbursts sounds mostly like an excuse to me. At least it should not be generalized because I believe this is quite rare, also I believe OP is referring to a mostly personal issue.
I actually think most people have anger & frustration issues with this game but (at least in my community) it's very rare to see people throwing controllers & having outbursts.
That kind of behaviour is looked down upon in my culture & country .

People can have strong traits toward emotional outbursts without any illnesses. Whether a person has a diagnosis or not it sounds simply like a bad excuse. I apologize in advance for this statement/opinion.

So I do disagree with the OP. I see the ability to control one's emotions (shut them down actually), keeping the anger bottled up, as a feature of a truly good player (whether one is suffering from mental illness or not). I believe when you are truly concentrated in the game you shouldn't feel anything really. Learning to control your emotions & being patient will benefit you as a player greatly.

I do agree however, that instead of judging ("That's childlish!"), people should try to understand other's reactions.
Anyone acting this way is in a very emotional and sensitive state and such comments can really leave their mark upon.
Another thing people should understand is that some are much more sensitive emotionally. This feature comes with many benefits but also with downsides.

We are human beings after all, and this is NOT just a game, it's more like an socially accepted addiction with some positive aspects.

Let's try to understand & respect each other under all circumstances.
 

rawrimamonster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
745
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dearborn heights MI
tl;dr version, dont act like a stupid **** talking jerk to others and be a good sport. :awesome:

Too many people in this community have always acted like edgy ****heads trying to be the "cool kid", its been that way since i started in 04. Sometimes people need to just chill the hell out and be bros to eachother, thats all there is to it.
 

S l o X

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
2,838
Location
bridgeport, ct
i always feel bad when people throw controllers or throw a fit after i beat them.

sometimes i say sorry even though i did nothing wrong.

): sorry matt. i never mean to win our matches.
 

Massive

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Kansas City, MO
I read everything in this thread and I still have no idea what Wobbles is advocating the treatment of the rage-men should be.

Why so ambiguous?
 

kd-

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
1,235
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Body City, BO
Players shouldn't throw controllers. Is that in dispute? No, it isn't. Players shouldn't disrespect their opponents either, whether it's through an inappropriate display of joy at victory, or a series of whining and complaints when they lose. I don't think that's in dispute either.

What I take issue with is some people's complete failure to even ATTEMPT to understand what might be going on in somebody's head when they experience the cluster**** of negative emotions that would lead somebody to punch a wall, or kick a chair, or throw a controller. That's disrespectful too.
He's saying don't throw controllers, respect your opponents with grace after a match, and understand what they might be going through - elation of victory/agony of defeat - so that you aren't disrespecting their hopefully respectful post-game actions

edit:
I'm not preaching tolerance and understanding for the violent behavior. I'm preaching an understanding of the ROOTS of the violent behavior, in favor of helping the person who perpetrated it, to help them not to do it again, without automatically condemning them for being babies.
 

Shadic

Alakadoof?
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NNID
Shadoof
If a person can't control yourself in a high-stress situation, you shouldn't be entering these tournaments then.

It's a game. Yes, money is on the line. Yes, stuff happens. But you should be in control of your actions at all times. Slips do happen, but physical aggression is NOT just a "slip."

I see no reason to sympathize or excuse those who are an embarrassment to the scene. We're already playing a "kiddy" game. Let's not act like children while playing it.

:phone:
 

Jockmaster

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
873
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Athens, GA
Maybe I'm really cool-headed or something but I've never grown more than mildly frustrated with this game.

I think it's just the mindset that any time I lose it was my fault, and by taking responsibility for it and understanding what went wrong I can try to do better in the future.

Like seriously, why the **** do people throw controllers?...

edit: except I do rage against Ike in P:M but that's just more of a comical rage than an actual rage because Ike is stupid
 

Morin0

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
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People who perpetrated it? What? Wobbles, I was there when s2j beat you at NYTE and he did not start doing a victory dance or whatever. He just sat there and took a sip from his gallon of water while you were yelling and ****. What could've s2j done to prevent that?
 

TheZhuKeeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
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Philadelphia, PA
great post

kinda sad that this stuff needs to be spelled out for people





side note, i'm very guilty of not respecting other players. will work on that. am afraid i won't respect myself if i respect others too much though, strange balance to maintain.
 

Morin0

Smash Lord
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You know what would be respectful? If you said GGS, shook their hand (or not) and then go outside the venue or somewhere where there's no people to cool down. There, you can throw your controller and even break it if you want, but please don't do it when there's other people there. It's not respectful towards your opponent and the other people nearby. Like I said, when people do this sort of crap, it makes me really uncomfortable.

Seriously. This one guy was playing on my Gamecube and he got mad or whatever so he yanked his controller from my Gamecube and now the port he was on doesn't work. So damn disrespectful. So yeah, please don't do that around other people.
 

Xyzz

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
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Gensokyan Embassy, Munich, Germany
It's really awkward to sit next to somebody who is visibly pissed at the game... :(

I'd love to say something along the lines of "take it easy, man, in the end it's just a game", but that would probably only make them more pissed :x
 

CableCho57

Smash Lord
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Jul 18, 2007
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Goleta/Santa Barbara, CA
yeah it really kills the mood during friendlies

like the name implies, it should be a friendly game so they should take it easy


tourney matches however are more understandable, but we should all try our best to conduct respectable behavior. From trying our best not to rage to not calling someone an ******* because he's raging

coincidentally this thread was recently bumped and was good read kinda on this subject
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=129236
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
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Springfield, MA
even though i'm not going to tournaments anymore

i owe proskater an apology for the way i acted after our set at Dissention

i didn't throw a fit or anything that i can recall, but i was pretty verbally disrespectful afterwards

so if you read this proskater, i apologize, even if you don't remember me being a d*** to you after the set. (which has happened before)

good thread, this is an issue that doesn't get seriously adress all the time

:phone:
 

JPOBS

Smash Hero
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I'm not understanding the distinction being made here. You're saying throwing controllers, punching walls, kicking chairs etc aren't disrespectful because it's "possible that your underlying motivation is simply you wanted so badly to win that the emotional whiplash of failing to achieve your goal left you out of control of your behavior", and should therefore be pardoned (or something?). But how is that different from an emotional whiplash of failing to achieve your goal that left you out of control of your words?

You say that we should not disrespect players by johning and saying various examples you pointed out, but sometimes we get angry and just say stuff when we are emotionally distraught. I simply fail to see the distinction. We have executive cognitive functions for a reason, and the very same mental imbalances/pressure/anexity/whatever that causes you to throw a controller are exactly the same that cause you to say things disrespectfully.

I'm not understanding why you claim one reaction (controller tossing) isn't disrespectful, when the other (johning) is.

For the record, I'm in agreement that you shouldn't call people a baby/moron/etc because they threw a controller, that's just human decency. I also agree that the underlying issues should be adressed and helped by those able to help. And I also agree that disrespect from the winner is probably the height of disrespect, and should not be tolerated ever. But I'm not convinced controller tossing isn't disrespectful because of the reasons outlined in OP.
 

Morin0

Smash Lord
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JPOBS, did you read my post about s2j beating Wobbles? If that's not a giant contradiction to what he's saying, then I don't know what is. Also, just as a FYI, the bit where he said "perpetrated" set me off because that's like saying the other person instigated it. Like, "oh, it was his fault that made me throw my controller and then furiously punch the walls."

That's why I mentioned s2j doing nothing to "perpetrate" his anger and yet he did it anyways. Rfrizzle made a very valid point. Somehow the person who rages expects the other person to respect them by not celebrating their win or just knowing why they throw their controller etc. but the person who doesn't visibly rage didn't commit mistakes in the match at all or put in X amount of years into the game? If I'm not mistaken, that's why someone would rage according to Wobbles. Why didn't that person throw his/her controller and start punching walls if that person were to lose?

I don't mind losing if I know I straight up got outplayed (and even then that's objective because where do you draw the line between your "best" and just plain out johning). I get a bit upset when I know I could be doing better and I think it's like this for a lot of people. (But even then, I still don't care.) But ****, throwing your controller, yelling, and punching walls is something else, dude. But I digress -- I don't think you can change someone when they're already like this. My only suggestion is that if you're so adamant about respect, please step outside before you lose your ****. Have respect for others, please.
 

Get Low

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
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948
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Niles, Ohio
There's a certain player whom I've played against a few times, and in every set that I've played with him, he always says things such as, "such bull****", "so gay", and "not even good", during the first game of our set. I usually **** him the first game, but his words of anger that have been directed toward me make me feel like ****, which in turn causes me play like **** for the rest of set, and I end up losing.

The point is, disrespecting your opponent during a set can affect the outcome also. Even if it affects it in the angry person's favor, it just isn't right.
 

Izuhu

Smash Journeyman
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Sep 12, 2012
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If hypothetically I did win a tournament, my approach will be to throw a compliment to them about their main, a compliment for being able to make it so far, and if they didn't get so far.....I'll compliment them for trying their best. I would also throw a compliment to them and respect them for being here, helping the community grow. A lot of people wanna learn how to play the game good but don't have that confidence to go to tournaments and play in front of people because they feel that they'll fools of themselves or choke while playing. But yea.... thats how I'll approach x3

As for me if I was too lose, I take every lost as a opportunity to see my flaws.
 

Morin0

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If hypothetically I did win a tournament, my approach will be to throw a compliment to them about their main, a compliment for being able to make it so far, and if they didn't get so far.....I'll compliment them for trying their best. I would also throw a compliment to them and respect them for being here helping the community grow. A lot of people wanna learn how to play the game good but don't have that confidence to go to tournaments and play in front of people because they feel that they'll fools of themselves or choke while playing. But yea.... thats how I'll approach x3

As for me if I was too lose, I take every lost as a opportunity to see my flaws.
Too bad that when they're already in that train of thought (anger), you saying stuff like that would make them even more angry. It's like telling someone who is angry to calm down but yet does the opposite and makes them even more angry. Sometimes it works, though. It depends on the person. Someone might find your comments about making it that far a bit condescending while someone doesn't. -shrugs-
 

Battlecow

Play to Win
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I hate the saying "It's just a game." Seriously? We've all spent so much time on this game that it really should be a lot more than just a game to the tournament player. Losing a big set SHOULD be upsetting, and if it's not, you're either some sort of enormous zen master or you've wasted all those hours practicing in your room with the lights off on a "kiddy game."

That said, you shouldn't throw controllers. Wobbles is absolutely right--johns and other forms of disrespect are absolutely to be frowned upon. Likewise, the mature thing to do is to control your rage. To stand up, say "Good game," shake hands, and then go outside and kick a wall until your toes break. However, not everyone is capable of this, especially in tremendously high-pressure situations. If someone tosses a controller once a year, or maybe screams a little after a high pressure tourney loss, cut them some slack. It's not hurting you in any real way. It's something they need to work on, but it's absolutely understandable.
 

Izuhu

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Too bad that when they're already in that train of thought (anger), you saying stuff like that would make them even more angry. It's like telling someone who is angry to calm down but yet does the opposite and makes them even more angry. Sometimes it works, though. It depends on the person. Someone might find your comments about making it that far a bit condescending while someone doesn't. -shrugs-
Thats true sometimes things like that do make a person more angry but its understandable. I rather say my compliments knowing that I respected this person for what he did than to just rub it in his face. I'm alright with the anger only if its taken well, but if things start to get physical and out of hand I just lowered my respect for you.
 

Morin0

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I hate the saying "It's just a game." Seriously? We've all spent so much time on this game that it really should be a lot more than just a game to the tournament player. Losing a big set SHOULD be upsetting, and if it's not, you're either some sort of enormous zen master or you've wasted all those hours practicing in your room with the lights off on a "kiddy game."
I often find throwing in your ego into the mix yields bad results. People take it personal when they put their ego on the line. That's, what I believe, when people say "it's just a game." Admittedly, it irks me too, but I guess it's part of high profile tournament matches. The only thing that is at stake here is your ego (and maybe your flight back if it's an out of state tournament, lol). Unless you make a living off of Smash and it inhibits to pay your rent when you lose, there's not much reason to be that mad.

I guess I'm some sort of big zen master.
 

Wobbles

Desert Eskimo
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JPOBS: I'm making the claim that becoming extremely upset with the outcome of a match is not _inherently_ disrespectful to the opponent. Because both players want to win, and one player may have a lot of emotional factors that would lead to a rage-explosion. It may not be directed at the opponent whatsoever. It may not involve johning. It may not involve any kind of attempt to justify the outcome in an ego-saving way. It might just be anger at one's self for not performing better. So it's not *on its own* a sign of disrespect. It's a sign of anger.

If you start yelling and calling the other person a ****** who plays a broken-*** character, then THAT would be disrespectful. If you threw your controller as part of that tantrum, then the controller throw would be.

Morino: I didn't say that "because an opponent is rubbing it in your face, you have the right to flip the **** out." I'm not sure where you got that. I said you CAN be disrespectful by being overly excited over a victory IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT to the loser, who may be upset. And that if we're preaching emotional stoicism in the face of loss, then it follows you should maintain some level of decorum during victory. That's hardly disputable. And it's not even the main point of my post, so why are you singling it out?

You're taking what I'm saying to an end of, "ALWAYS BE SUPER NICE TO THE GUY WHO GOT REALLY MAD." I didn't say that. I said somebody might have other **** going on under the surface and immediately calling them babies or ******* for getting upset doesn't do justice to potential things they're struggling with. And it can also hurt somebody who could actually use assistance.

You also misread use of the word perpetrate, because it referred, as I used it, to the person getting overly angry. The person who threw the tantrum/controller. Not some imaginary instigator, like a breakdancing opponent.

And finally, I'm talking about AFTER the fact. Where people go online and start talking endless **** about a rager without being constructive. Not that everybody should go give a massive group hug to the guy who is trying to storm out of the venue after spiking his controller.

Since you decided to bring me up, I'll level with you: I have a tough time dealing with my imperfections. I struggle a lot in other areas, and turn to Smash as an endeavor that I understand. I started playing seriously in July 2004, putting me at about 8 years and 2 months. I still make extremely basic errors that frustrate me, and I make them on an extremely regular basis, which frustrates me more. I do not come from a state with a large smash population, so people are almost always cheering AGAINST me wherever I go. I play an unpopular character so people will cheer against me based on THAT. I popularized a controversial move, so people don't like me because of THAT. Now, I'm in a weird limbo where people expect me to win--since I'm a big name--and also expect that I'm bad and I'll freak out. It's stressful. It's not easy to ignore a community that has this kind of perception of you, especially when you spend a lot of time on the boards and in person trying to teach them things about the game.

Then I had an infamous experience losing to SS, and now just about every video on youtube of me losing involves comments on me raging. It's assumed that I'm an arm-flailing four year old who has to be DA BEST and despises losing and can't handle it whatsoever, under any circumstance. I lose all the time. I don't always flip out. I do sometimes, because I have emotional issues, and when I make long strings of fundamental errors that completely shut down my ability to play (in a game that I love and want to succeed at, giving more ammo to people who believe I'm not actually that good).

People meet me and have an amazingly hard time believing that I'm actually me. Because I seem like a nice person with a (mostly) good attitude who really enjoys the game. And then people get surprised that I'm actually, like, okay at this game. And then I have a bad experience and it starts over again.

This post was not even about me. It was about MattDotZeb, because even though he apologized and explained the emotional reason for his reaction at FC, people continued to talk about how rage throwing means you are a ******** baby, doing no justice to his motivations OR his attempt to make good.

RFrizzle: What you said is completely incorrect. I barely even know how to explain why.

Massive: If you know the person and care about them, help them overcome the issues. If you DON'T know them, then ACT LIKE IT and don't start ****-talking them without understanding their motivations, because it makes you look like a judgmental *******.
 

tarheeljks

Smash Lord
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complex issue. one the one hand i can appreciate the call for empathy, but on the other i feel you are playing up the victim role too much (even if unintended)
 

Wobbles

Desert Eskimo
BRoomer
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It's not about the rager being a "victim." They have **** to work out, whether they're being childish or troubled. It's their responsibility.

If there's a thesis statement to this, it's that "ragethrowing and getting pissed is not always intended as a sign of spoiled behavior or disrespect, and in some cases may indicate the person needs help and understanding rather than mindless criticism."
 

tarheeljks

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
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Location
land of the free
It's not about the rager being a "victim." They have **** to work out, whether they're being childish or troubled. It's their responsibility.

If there's a thesis statement to this, it's that "ragethrowing and getting pissed is not always intended as a sign of spoiled behavior or disrespect, and in some cases may indicate the person needs help and understanding rather than mindless criticism."
agree mostly but it's no more fair to call it mindless criticism than it is for observers to assume the worst about those who rage. oddly enough, i think people rush to judgment in these matters not due to lack of empathy, but precisely b/c they too have been angry and demonstrated adequate emotional control. that doesn't make it good, but i don't think people are completely misguided in this regard
 

Oskar

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
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38
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Copenhagen, Denmark
I'm sorry, but getting upset over the game to the point where you throw would throw a controller *is* disrespectful to your opponent and really anyone in the vicinity. Speaking from personal experience, both in and out of smash, watching people throw fits and rage in general is really unpleasant and always puts a big dampener on whatever fun you're having at the time. It's 'disrespectful' because you're ruining everyone's fun on account of not having control over your inner turmoil BS or whatever.

You keep bringing up the whole 'lend them a helping hand' thing. But I'm not really sure what you're expecting of people here. Most smashers are not trained psychologist (as far as I know). I suppose it could be something as simple as a pad on the back or a "You okay, man?", but I would personally feel pretty wary about trying to calm someone who just smashed their controller against the wall.

I'mnot trying to make light of mental issues or anything here, but stuff like this really need to kept separate from smash tournaments IMO.

Fake edit: this video is kinda funny in the context of this thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czqt2EFYYGg
 
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