Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[Mr. MR]

John-117

Chance: 21%
I can see him happening in this pass for a few reasons:

• Mascot character for a company that has two characters in the game already
• One of the fathers of the modern FPS
• Highly iconic
• Crossovered with other games already
• Microsoft has good relations with Nintendo

When it comes to characters that represent Microsoft, Banjo Kazooie and Minecraft Steve aren't the first characters that come to mind. Banjo is seen as a representative of Rare and is treated as such in his reveal trailer and Steve is seen first as a Mojang rep and then a Microsoft rep. If Doomguy or Dovahkiin found their way into this pass it would be seen as a Bethesda character and barely a Microsoft character. While technically all these characters belong to Microsoft they were not born from Microsoft. Microsoft has the habit of buying franchises rather than making them. Halo at one point was planned to be a Mac exclusive but that obviously didn't happen and it ended up in Microsoft's hands to become its flagship. Halo is different than the other acquired games because it went through a lot of changes from when it was first revealed by Steve Jobs to when the first game released on Xbox.

There has been a fan rule that states that every pass must have characters from different companies. This rule has a lot of merit and hasn't been broken yet but then again we only have gotten one full pass so far. The idea behind this rule I believe comes from not wanting one company other than Nintendo from dominating a pass. If we got three Capcom characters in one pass the pass would probably be called the Capcom pass despite them not all being Capcom. If three Capcom characters were planned to be successive DLC, Nintendo would probably just market a new Capcom pass with the three characters. The Fighter Passes are seen and marketed more as grab bags/variety packs. That being said, I think Microsoft falls into a gray area. I believe that we can get both Steve and Master Chief in the same pass and it not destroy the idea of a variety pack especially if he is the 6th character.

As previously stated Banjo and Steve weren't really Microsoft to begin with and don't actually represent Microsoft first. Banjo got in with fan demand and Steve got in by pure merit. Chief doesn't have as much fan demand as Banjo nor the title of best selling video game of all time, but he has something they don't have and that's being both Microsoft's flagship franchise and mascot. It's not as though Chief is lacking in fan demand or merit either. He has a sizable amount of fan demand and has merit in his own right. Halo is arguably one of the games that solidified the modern FPS and is almost synonymous with Xbox-live. Not only that but the Chief is the most iconic out of them making him one of the best FPS reps along side Doomguy. His iconic status has gotten the Chief many references and crossovers—Fortnite being the most recent.

I'm going to quickly mention that Microsoft and Nintendo right now are very chummy which is how Steve and Banjo got in in the first place. Also he's one of the few characters that I think could reasonably match Steve's reveal hype.

Want: 11*7% (77%)
Yeah, I want Chief. Played Halo 1-3+OST and had a blast with my friends. I only have vague ideas on how he would play but I think he would be unique enough and a good addition to Smash. I'm not too familiar with new Halo and haven't played the games in a while. One thing that keeps me from liking him more would probably be fears that his playstyle would be campy and item based. I would probably still have fun with him despite that.


Kratos from Fortnite

Chance: 1%
I don't have much to say about Kratos compared to Master Chief. The first hurdle to overcome is Sony and that's an almost impossible obstacle to overcome. On top of that, Kratos isn't the only Sony character that would be great for Smash. Sony is untapped potential and so there are so many Sony characters that would compete against Kratos and I'm not going to list them all. His edge over the competition is that he technically is already on the Switch via Fortnite. Even if its due to a crazy series of circumstances, I didn't not expect to see Kratos on a Nintendo console. That still doesn't solve the Sony problem tho.

Want: 80%
Despite not having played a God of War game, I know enough of Kratos to know that he would be awesome. The main reason I want him more than Master Chief is because him getting in would break the Sony wall and open the floodgates. I would be hyped just for that. I'm sure Kratos would have a fast paced and aggressive playstyle and that would be so fun. He has a lot of moveset potential as well with both his axe and his dual blades. Also, Kratos Kirby.

Another SNK: 5.34%
Stage without Fighter: 22.22%

Noms: 20x Noms to the next character nom'ed in the next Master Chief/Kratos Rating above 10 sentences. Otherwise 20x Noms to Stage:Tetris

 

[Lyncario]

Fixed Schedule part I think 13: Two Competitors

Master Chief

Chances: 1%

Master Chief is the protagonist of the Halo series, which is a very big and important game to it's genre, the fps genre. It has sucess worldwide, and even in Japan, where Halo 3 was surprisingly selling very well, despite how the Xbox series, and by extension, the Xbox 360, do not see extremly good sales. There was even an Halo anime, Furthermore, Master Chief is a character that the Halo team obviously wants in Smash, and with how he is the Microsoft character, this ovciously means that he's going to be in, right? Yeah, I don't believe that one bit. While Master Chief and Halo have been surprisingly popular in Japan compared to the rest of the genre, it's still not that popular in Japan, even if over 100000 sales is very good for an Xbox game in Japan, since that was a pretty long time ago, and since then, Halo got less popular worldwide, and so did Master Chief. But also, Steve is in the pass, and while some people think that 2 characters from a same company can happen in the same pass, but I personaly think that it's extremmly unlikely to happen if not impossible, but aparently him not getting mii'ed along Steve is something in his favor, aparently. Also I think that big pass sellers like Master Chief are less likely after Sephiroth and Steve, since after all we only had one big pass sellers in pass 1 being Hero (no, Banjo isn't a big pass seller, as his series has been dead for over a decade. Neither is Joker, as while Persona 5 is big, it's nowhere near being a cultural icon like DQ, FFVII, or Minecraft). Also fo rthe rumored Master Chief Collection coming to Switch, I'll take that into account once it actualy gets revealed, not that it would change my point of view on Master hief's chances in Smash anyway. He would have way higter chance in a potential fighter pass 3, but as far as know as of right now, it's not hapening, and probably neither is Chief.

Want: 40%

Master Chief is extremly iconic and recognisable, but to me, he doesn't make me feel a lot. FPS isn't a genre I really apreaciate, so I'm rather meh on most characters of that genre, with the exception of Heavy and maybe Doomguy/Slayer since I can see them being extremly fun in general, and I also like memes involving TF2 and Doom a lot too. The moveset ideas I saw for Master Chief are fine but not really very exicting to me, and while a Halo stage and Halo music would be nice, It wouldn't do that much for me overall, since Halo doesn't really means anything for me as I'm not big on Xbox, rather I prefer the Playstations and Nintendo systems by quite a lot due to the often very good games on them.

The angriest character- wait, Doomguy exist. The angriest dad- wait, Asura exist. he angriest grieving parent- wait Junko exist, and also both her and Asura are matches for Doomguy in term of anger. The angriest greek in gaming.

Chances: 0.0001%

Being real in any way, Kratos is not hapening. If a Sony character was to get it then it would most likely be either him or Ratchet and Clank with Kratos probably having an edge, and also e's not disconfirmed by anything, so that's why he's not 0. This is not eve ncomparable to Sephiroth, as the problem Sephiroth (or another Final Fantasy character) had was a ridiculously complicated copyright, Kratos is pretty much one of the face of a competitor Nintendo doesn't have a great relationship with, as while it is known that Nintendo and Microsoft are friends nowadays, the same cannot be said of Sony and Nintendo, as while Nintendo and Sony (also along Microsoft) stood against a thing that hapened some months back, it was mostly pr and basic human decendy to have, rather than them working togethers. Now, Kratos is in the Switch version of Fortnite, which doesn't change anything, this is a "2B is a costume in Phantasy Star Online 2" level of aparition, which doesn't really means anything in the end. Kratos would be the biggest "holy hell I can't believe this games is real, bt like I said earlier, I think that the big pass sellers of the pass are already both revealed.

Want

GoW 1-3 Kratos: 70%

The original God of War trilogy is a trilogy that I apreciate due to multiple of it's elements, even if I'm not the biggest fan of the spectacle it shows most of the time because it's too gory for my taste. One thing about it that I apreciate a lot is it's protagonist, Kratos, as he is a surprisingly deep charactr under all of that (justified) anger. To that, add having a fun moveset in GoW andnice abilities, you get a character that would work nicely in a platform fighter, and even worked nicely in the one he has been in before (Kratos is fun in PASBR, the problem he has is that he shares the "you need to use a super to kill" mechanic the entire roster sadly has). Even if I don't like Kratos as much as say Dante (who coms from the same genre, but that I find to have a far better everything and I also enjoy DMC a lot more than GoW), I still find him likeable, and that he would be pretty cool in Smash, especialy since he would be such a big "holy hell" character.

GoW 4+ Kratos: 5%

You know what I don't like? When I follow a character trough a big adventure where I dicover a lot about him, see him grow, be angry, be sad, fufil his objectives, but then in a sequel the game goes "lmao, character was very bad before, but now eh's good because he changed". In fact, I find that doing this, or as i call it, pretending the development a character got did not exist to pretend that he's now deep, which I find to be one of the cardinal sins of writing. And this is exactly what the writing said about Kratos in GoW 4. GoW 4 is overall a good game, but denying the games that preceeded it and made Kratos who he is now is just something I find unforgiviable, especialy for a game that likes to push how much Kratos is now better.

Nominations

Madeline Mii x20

Predictions

Stage with no one: 42.5%

2nd SNK character: 4.3%

 

[Inue Houji]

If it's no trouble I'd like to change my nomination to BILLY & JIMMY LEE x20.

It's easier if you just edit your original post.
Changing nominations(or anything really) is fine as long as it's still the same day.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Kratos Aurion.

Chance: 1%

Want: 0%

I don't see this guy happening before Lloyd Irving, and even then he has to compete with the likes of Yuri, Velvet and.........what? Not that Kratos? You mean we are talking about him? Really? Oh well. Here we go.

Chance: 1%

People are exaggerating the whole "MUST BE RELATED TO NINTENDO IS A FANRULE" thing. Yes, we have Joker, Cloud and Snake, but those aren't actual Sony characters, it's just that people ASSOCIATE them with Sony, same with Mega Man and Nintendo. Even if we have gotten a Microsoft rep, Sony is.................different. Sony is still a competitive company far more than Microsoft is or ever was with Nintendo.

Kratos has not made an appereance in any Nintendo System, not even a 3DS or GBA spinoff (you know, the one where the "ACHTUALLY" kind of guy would point out in order to justify their inclusion in Smash) and the developers AND publisher have no interest in bringing those games to Nintendo systems. I don't see why people think Cloud's inclusion will lead to someone like him. Maybe the likes of Lara, but not this guy.

Crash stopped beign a Playstation character since the 6th Generation. Kratos was and STILL is a Sony Player 100%. (well, and Java apparently)

Chance: 1%

It hurts me to put his chances this high. Microsoft oficially is now part of Smash, but that's all MC has really.

Yeah, MC is iconic...............in the west (namely America) but in Japan he might as well be Green Male Samus for them (not so different from the "another anime Swordman" crowd, eh Japan?) this wouldn't be so bad if the competition he had had much better reception there, had bigger longevity, and have.......ahem, Actual presence on Nintendo.

I mean, why do you think they added Banjo over him? Banjo is basically Nintendo's Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, a character that was once in Nintendo's hands and lost them to time. Microsoft knew this, because most of the Nintendosphere knows Microsoft as "the people who took Rare away (a narrative that simplifies the story to an absurd extent, yes, but they are still seen that way) and the good Public Reception they got due to approving Banjo for Smash was a good way of taking most of that negative reception away from years and years (DO NOT underestimate the power and influence of Social Media, im 100% sure that Banjo would have NOT happened if Phil didn't respond to that tweet or if the Banjo fan didn't tweet at all)

Master Chief?..........i mean yeah now Microsoft is willing to put their games on other systems. Except those games tend to be smaller Indie titles. Halo 3 did get ported to PC, but Microsoft has been doing that for a while (i mean, they also are known for Windows so they still have a market in the Computer side) and in the Banjo presentation Sakurai basically said "Go play Xbox if you want Banjo Kazooie games" which for me is an admission that Rare Replay and any major non-indie title from XBOX is NOT getting ported to Switch, at least for a loooooong time.

and this is not even taking into account other western competition like Crash, or even more of a death sentence to the Chief: Steve.

Steve has already his game on Nintendo Systems way before people were speculating Chief could get ports, is far more popular in Japan and among the general audience nowadays, and is actually requested far more than Chief. Banjo was an outlier, he was added because Microsoft KNEW the postive attention Banjo Kazooie would get, far more than Chiefs because people weren't talking about Chief, they talked about Banjo and Later Steve.

Even after Banjo's arrival, i still don't see Chief making it in, ESPECIALLY when there's another Microsoft Owned character who beats him at almost every category possible except for seniority and i guess Shock Value.

Nintendo may have allowed the Wonderful 101 to be released on other platforms despite claiming certain ownership of the game, but you sure as HELL will not see Mario in XBOX. Same goes to the Microsoft situation. Banjo in Smash? Cool, Microsoft got positive PR just by allowing a character they don't even care for (or isn't in line with their common demographic) into a game that was more in line with Banjo's audience, but allowing their only major player that's not a third party into Smash? No.

Want for both: 0%

Call me old fashioned, but these aren't characters i want in Smash. Yes i wanted Crash in Smash despite him beign seen as a PS1 character, but that is an idea that is no longer the case. If Crash was still a Sony exclusive series, i would not want him in Smash, same goes for Sonic in an alternate universe where Sega didn't implode and was still making Consoles. I want this to be a NINTENDO centric franchise, and guests are fine, but i can only tolerate them to certain point, and these 2 draw the line.

Im more critical of Guest characters in general as opposed to other people who are like "OH I LIKE THAT THING THEREFORE HE BELONGS WITH THIS THING". No, mindset like that only ends making **** like Tom and Jerry and Willwonka.

Keep in mind, i don't hate these characters or franchises, i just think there's a limit on how many stuff you can put before it feels absurd. I like Ed Edd N Eddy, but they should NOT be crossing over with say, a Harem anime. I love Mega Man, but i don't see the point of it crossing it over with Aqua Team Hunger Force. The Walking Dead is (well, was) Great but why would you put Negan in Tekke-Aw **** that actually happened.

I know this is an unpopular opinion in the age of crossovers where everything and everyone must meet, but i don't see any reason to add Master Chief or Kratos in Smash outisde of them beign well.........video game characters.

I rather keep Smash more Nintendo centric, instead of turning it "THA ThiAsTORY IF GAMING" as many people proclaim and want to turn it into. and no if i was making Smash's roster i wouldn't add Joker, Snake or Cloud.

Granted, Crash and Sonic were once Competition, and i dont' deny the possibility of Microsoft just quitting the console market, and if that happens and Master Chief ever becomes a third party with DECENT Nintendo Support, sure welcome aboard. But now? Blehgh.

......nothing has really changed for Kratos. Sony in Smash? Yeah no. Unlike Microsoft, Sony clearly still has some grudge towards Nintendo in the market, if only because both have a gaming market in Japan (well, if sources are to be believed, Sony may not longer even have that) but Sony has never been a team player in general. There isn't that much of a benefit for Sony to give any of their propierties to be in Smash.

and Master Chief honestly kinda bit the dust. We got another Microsoft character, and it was unsurprisingly Steve. The ONE who had Nintendo presence and Popularity in Japan, two things that Chief does not have and keep him out of Smash in my eyes. Could we get another MC character? Likely not, with so many companies in the sea wanting some of the Smash pie (or to have another chance like Sega or Namco) i don't see Microsoft pushing for another character as of now, and i believe FP2 is the end for Smash Character announcements.

Chance for both: 1%

and as always: 0% Want.

Muh Nintendo blah blah, you know the drill. I like Guest characters, I love Simon and Mega Man and Sonic and Banjo (even though for me he will ALWAYS be a Nintendo character), i wanted Bomberman, Geno, Rayman, Terra Branford, and still want Crash. I like Guests, when they don't feel so...........outsider like. and you don't get more outsider than a franchise that has never touched Nintendo series, from Developers that with LUCK have developed games for Nintendo Systems.


I don't care if this makes me the unpopular, i believe Smash should be about Nintendo, and any guests must have SOME overlap with Nintendo's core audience or at least have a presence in Nintendo systems, be it a major Attendance Member like Bomberman or at least having some the major entries on the Recent Nintendo systems like Adol Christin. Characters like these two im rating just don't cut it, and i don't want them anywhere close to Smash. If Hell Freezes over and we get their games in Nintendo Systems, i will be "okay" with their inclusions.......but i don't care about them. Plus if Sakurai's "Buy Xbox for Banjo LOL" is any indication, that **** ain't happening (which i was quite upset about) so no thanks.

 

[NintenZ]

Kratos

Chance: 1%

Tbh I don’t think I need to say much, he’s never appeared in a Nintendo system, Sony is notoriously hard to work with, and there’s just no overlap with Nintendo’s audience. I just can’t see them going for him honestly, they’ve shown no interest.

Want: 0%

I don’t really want him honestly, I feel like this is a pick that would be done for shock factor and I’m not crazy about the prospect of that. I like his games but I don’t think he’s a good fit for Smash at all. Also if we’re talking Sony characters I feel like Kat from Gravity Rush is a much better fit for Smash’s style and I’d rather have her even if she’s not as big as Kratos. Overall not very enthralled by the idea of this.

Master Chief

Chance: 1%

This is kinda echoing what I said with Kratos, though unlike Kratos, Chief has the distinction of being particularly overestimated by fans simply because of Microsoft’s relationship with Nintendo. When in actuality, unlike the characters in Smash from them already, they’ve shown no interest in Halo as a franchise at all. Additionally Halo is notoriously unpopular in Smash’s main demographic, the Japanese audience. With all this in mind I cannot see them going for him at all under any circumstance as a fighter. I could see him getting something VERY small like a Mii Costume but that’s literally as far as it goes.

Want: 0%

I’m not into FPS games and I don’t really like the Halo games. I was originally typing out a significantly more negative rant because I actually have a lot of grievances with the series and it’s fanbase and how it impacted videogames with it feeling like everyone was trying to copy it’s success for better or worse, but I want to be modest because I don’t want my feelings to negatively impact other people who may enjoy it. So I’m just going to leave it there. (Blinx is better though I’m not afraid to say that)

Nominations:
A Xenoblade Character (5x)
Kaede Akamatsu (5x)

 

[chocolatejr9]

Kratos

Chance: 1%

Tbh I don’t think I need to say much, he’s never appeared in a Nintendo system, Sony is notoriously hard to work with, and there’s just no overlap with Nintendo’s audience. I just can’t see them going for him honestly, they’ve shown no interest.

Want: 0%

I don’t really want him honestly, I feel like this is a pick that would be done for shock factor and I’m not crazy about the prospect of that. I like his games but I don’t think he’s a good fit for Smash at all. Also if we’re talking Sony characters I feel like Kat from Gravity Rush is a much better fit for Smash’s style and I’d rather have her even if she’s not as big as Kratos. Overall not very enthralled by the idea of this.

Master Chief

Chance: 1%

This is kinda echoing what I said with Kratos, though unlike Kratos, Chief has the distinction of being particularly overestimated by fans simply because of Microsoft’s relationship with Nintendo. When in actuality, unlike the characters in Smash from them already, they’ve shown no interest in Halo as a franchise at all. Additionally Halo is notoriously unpopular in Smash’s main demographic, the Japanese audience. With all this in mind I cannot see them going for him at all under any circumstance as a fighter. I could see him getting something VERY small like a Mii Costume but that’s literally as far as it goes.

Want: 0%

I’m not into FPS games and I don’t really like the Halo games. I was originally typing out a significantly more negative rant because I actually have a lot of grievances with the series and it’s fanbase and how it impacted videogames with it feeling like everyone was trying to copy it’s success for better or worse, but I want to be modest because I don’t want my feelings to negatively impact other people who may enjoy it. So I’m just going to leave it there. (Blinx is better though I’m not afraid to say that)

Nominations:
A Xenoblade Character (5x)
Kaede Akamatsu (5x)

You should NEVER be afraid to say Blinx is better. It's the truth that nobody wants to hear.

 

[NintenZ]

You should NEVER be afraid to say Blinx is better. It's the truth that nobody wants to hear.

Yeah that IS the facts

People aren't ready to understand that THIS is what perfection looks like

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yeah that IS the facts

People aren't ready to understand that THIS is what perfection looks like

Great, now I wish there was a Blinx support thread. I doubt anybody would give him high ratings, but hey, I'd managed to get Billy Hatcher in once. It was just nice to see people talking about him...

 

[NintenZ]

Great, now I wish there was a Blinx support thread. I doubt anybody would give him high ratings, but hey, I'd managed to get Billy Hatcher in once. It was just nice to see people talking about him...

You know that ain't a bad idea...

Hold on a sec I think I'm gonna try to fix that...

 

[Commander_Alph]

Yeah that IS the facts

People aren't ready to understand that THIS is what perfection looks like

Damn, I only know Blinx because of that gimmick twitter account. Now I want him.

 

[Ridrool64]

If Sonic and Crash were Mario's rivals back during the PS1/N64/Saturn era, then these guys took him on during the PS2/GameCube/Xbox era. (Though Kratos started a bit late.)

Chance (Kratos): 0%. I think it's clear as day why we will not get Kratos, and short of the loss of the entire old guard for both Sony and Nintendo (hopefully by retirement or resignation) probably never will. The Fortnite stuff is interesting, and hypothetically would allow me to see this happen, but remember that while Fortnite is available on Switch... it's also available for PS4 and PS5, which I would probably say is a factor in allowing this. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is not, and free advertising for the competition that hasn't become an ally the way Microsoft has... that's not likely on either's end. So for the purposes of this description I will rate him as if it's not a factor: 35%. Kratos has a few strong points, actually a boatload of them. In fact, all strong points!... which is also his biggest weakness. Kratos would hypothetically be such a no-brainer that there's no way he wouldn't make it in the first few slots. I could believe in him being a big budget reveal, but overall he's somebody I'm not counting on. Of course, that is what I'd be saying if he had a chance in my eyes.

Chance (Chief): 10%. I feel like his big break, if it exists, will be at E3 2021 or as the intended reveal around then. He's not getting revealed outside of it, he's too big of a deal to not be. I am among the "Steve is our only MS rep this pass" group because I don't feel like they went to Microsoft with Chief in mind at all. There is a chance that the third parties were all planned out by 2015, but while I'd wait on that for Japanese third parties, I can believe that this would occur with western third parties like Microsoft simply due to the communication barriers making things difficult for both sides. Even if Steve and Banjo were basically handed to Nintendo on a silver platter, Smash may not fly with how Halo's brand recognition is supposed to be, or it might not be popular enough in Japan, or there might be a bunch of reasons why we won't get Chief. But we could.

Want (Kratos): 50%. I'd rather have Sly, but Sly is not coming first, second, third or fourth. So for now I really wouldn't mind seeing Kratos get another chance at the Smash Bros.-style of games. That being said I do hope he isn't as busted as he was in PSAS. But I'd honestly rather have an attempt at a PSAS followup, I feel like that game got screwed over badly and given a bit more time in the oven we could've had something genuinely on par with Smash. Maybe as a traditional fighting game instead.

Want (Chief): 30%. On the Microsoft front, I'd rather have Conker or the Battletoads. Like with Tracer, on the FPS front I'd rather have somebody from Team Fortress 2. A lot of people think Master Chief can still "break the internet": I don't think he can do that anymore. He makes too much sense now to pull it off the way, say, a Sony rep, or a non video game character would. Those characters are widely accepted as genuine never-evers, like how Ridley became after seemingly being shut down for good, or how Cloud was a literal meme for years before it actually came to be, or even Snake just being a non-Nintendo character in the Nintendo All Stars game. While Sonic was realistic and also still broke the internet, I feel like Sonic's just noticeably more prominent in the public eye than Halo is. He would still be considered massively hype, don't get me wrong, and have a reach well beyond any third party in Ultimate so far besides Hero in Japan, but now he feels realistic which IMO kills the ability to break the internet. Even still, this guy is basically the guy who made the modern FPS what it was, so I'm not complaining if he finishes his fight here.

Speaking of, TF2 rep x max. Solo Stages but paid I think they'd have done by now if they were going to. 16.75%. Terry came with so much from SNK a lot of people are gonna think he's it. 4.25%.

 

[Pillow]

Want (Chief): 30%. On the Microsoft front, I'd rather have Conker or the Battletoads. Like with Tracer, on the FPS front I'd rather have somebody from Team Fortress 2. A lot of people think Master Chief can still "break the internet": I don't think he can do that anymore. He makes too much sense now to pull it off the way, say, a Sony rep, or a non video game character would. Those characters are widely accepted as genuine never-evers, like how Ridley became after seemingly being shut down for good, or how Cloud was a literal meme for years before it actually came to be, or even Snake just being a non-Nintendo character in the Nintendo All Stars game.9

I don't think the actual chances of appearing effects their aptitude for breaking the internet. MC would break the internet because he's the Master Chief, and not because he's unlikely for Smash. Steve broke the internet despite being a relatively expected character that was leaked over a year before his announcement.

 

[Lionfranky]

I see people still bring up Japan issue like newcomers never had that issue. Don't bring bs like Banjo and Terry were much more famous than Chief in Japan. And if we bring declining popularity, they shouldn't have picked Banjo or Terry. Tekken eclipses KOF in Japan, but see where we are.

 

[Bobthealligator]

I see people still bring up Japan issue like newcomers never had that issue. Don't bring bs like Banjo and Terry were much more famous than Chief in Japan. And if we bring declining popularity, they shouldn't have picked Banjo or Terry. Tekken eclipses KOF in Japan, but see where we are.

Tekken's gameplay wouldn't translate very well into Smash though.

 

[Lionfranky]

Tekken's gameplay wouldn't translate very well into Smash though.

My point is reasons get complicated. If you bring one reason like Japan, you would be bound to sound like hypocrite.

 

[NintenZ]

Don't bring bs like Banjo and Terry were much more famous than Chief in Japan.

Dude they literally are though lol

Banjo was a heavy request in Japan and SNK games are widely popular in Japan, literally America is one of the only places the games aren’t popular in

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Ending the day now, seeing as discussion has slowed down a bit.

Today we got two concepts on the mind, Concept: Another SNK Rep and Concept: Stage without a fighter as paid DLC. Rate these two in Chance and Want.

Tomorrow will be a big one. Concept: Third Fighter Pass. Predict it.

 

[3DSNinja]

Abstail for both yesterday and today
Nominations: Peppino x5

 

[Sari]

Some SNK songs to get in the mood for today:

Spoiler: SNK Music

Also another round of songs because the other rating isn't really applicable for a music post:

Spoiler: SNK Music Again

 

[BowserKing]

Second SNK Rep.

Chance: 10%. I don’t know if we are getting a second rep. While Microsoft (counting Mojang), Square Enix and Nintendo got two reps in the Fighter’s Passes (and I assume Nintendo will get at least one or two more), SNK is already decently represented, especially in the music department. But who knows what will happen.

Want: 60% Anpther SNK Rep would be fun to play as, but the question is who. I think either Nakoruru or King would be great choices for a Smash Bros Rep, and I can see either one of them team up with Terry against Ryu and Ken. But overall, a new SNK rep would be a good choice.

New Stage

Chance: 10%. So far, the stages we got are either part of the fighter’s pass, or is free thanks to an update. Another thing is that stages would need some music to go along, but it depends on certain factors like popularity and representation

Want: 100%. New stages are great ideas, and if there are some stages that should be in Smash, they would include Bowser’s Castle, Clock Tower, Castle Dedede, Battle Tower, Alola Tour and a Dr.Mario Stage. Overall, a new Stage would be a great idea.

Prediction: Third Fighter’s Pass (5%)

Noms: 5 for Boss: Rayquaza

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Concept: Second SNK Rep

1% Chance

Yeah, I am not too hot on this. Ironically, it is due to how good of a deal Terry got that I am skeptical. It seemed to me that Terry was repping SNK as a whole rather than just Fatal Fury. He came with spirits from KoF, AoF, Samurai Showdown, and even some of the non SNK fighting game stuff. I guess you could argue he did not come with Metal Slug stuff, but even then I am not sold that this would happen. It also does not help that some of the main other candidates, such as Kyo, are spirits in Terry's DLC board. Now, we know spirits do not deconfirm, but these are spirits that you have to have paid for in order to get. To me, it is Metal Slug or bust since it is the biggest gap in the SNK representation in Smash. I think KoF, Samurai Showdown, and the ones repped by Terry are likely gonna remain as Spirits in Terry's board.

Abstain Want

Look, I love SNK music, but I am not as familiar with the games. I got Metal Slug X for the PS1 for Christmas, and plan on playing that. Terry came with a ton of awesome music, so getting more SNK music is something I am down for. At the same time though, I have almost no connection to most of SNK's roster which hurts this. I seem something I might like with Metal Slug, but I am not familiar enough to make a solid judgement. Would love something like a run and gun character though, so there is that. When I think of run and guns, Gunstar Heroes, Contra, and Metal Slug are the main ones that come to mind, so I would be somewhat down if I had more experience.

Stage without a Fighter as DLC

30% Chance

We have full precedent for this happening. We got Mario Maker and Pirate Ship in Sm4sh, alongside the 64 stages as DLC. As such, we know this has happened before. It just has not happened now...which to me, is the problem.

Let me start with the Stages not in Ultimate from previous Smash games. I do not think any of them are likely to come back as DLC.

Let me start with a few that we know were made with pre existing assets. Poke Floats and Rainbow Road re used assets from other games, and I do not think that they could come back in their current forms without massive amounts of new assets. Then you have stages that were cut likely due to overlapping hard with other stages, such as Sector Z, Zebes, Mute City, Mushroom Kingdom, and the Flat Zones. That leaves Pyrosphere, Orbital Gate, Wooly World, Pac Maze, Icicle Mountain, and Rumble Falls. Being frank, I think Pac Maze is the only one with a snowball's chance of coming back. It is a super iconic location (even if the stage ain't the most iconic), while most of these other stages are not that popular at all.

So that gets rid of the Pirate Ship and 64 precedent, what about Mario Maker? Well, it is true that Nintendo could push out a stage to promote a new game coming out or a third party that works better with a stage than a character. In terms of the latter, the main one I could see happening would end up being a Tetris stage. Tetris is hard to work as a fighter, has more than earned a place in smash, and the concept of a stage for either it or 99 is easy to envision. In terms of promoting a specific new game or IP, that is where things are a bit harder. While theoretically Nintendo could want a stage made to promote a game, it is all at the end of the day just that: a theory. Until it happens, we can't know if it would happen or not in the end. We can spitball on what games would likely be the main choices, but honestly I just can't think of too many obvious candidates.

Honestly, this would be lower without the precedent. The real stages I am rating in this are Pac Maze and a Tetris stage tbh, since they fit the best with adding any stages as DLC.

100% Want

Why would I not want this? It is just a bit of extra content. I guess in theory a character I would want would not end up with the stage, but I personally doubt that would happen. In the end, it just means I get another cool location to mess around with when I play a nonsense free for all. So long as the stage is not 75 M levels of unplayable, I am good.

Also Tetris needs to be in smash. I know the license might be complicated, but it is such an iconic piece of video game history that it honestly needs to be included. The fact we do not have a tetris stage yet angers me slightly. Please put it in.

Neku x 10
Haggar x 10

 

[Sari]

Concept: Second SNK Character

Chance: 1%
I speak for just about everyone in that Terry wasn’t repping just Fatal Fury: he was repping SNK as a whole. We got an above average amount of both Fatal Fury and King of Fighters content and even content from Samurai Shodown and Metal Slug. This is the exact opposite of the situation that Final Fantasy was in since there is perhaps too much content to warrant another character especially in a single game's DLC cycle. Because of this as well as most of the serious SNK contenders being background cameos and/or costumes, it's hard to see us getting yet another SNK character.

I will say that if we get another Sega character then I will be very suspicious of this actually happening. Another Sega character would mean that all of the companies from FP1 would've gotten an additional fighter in FP2 aside from SNK. That alone would probably boost this score by at least 10% for me.

Now if we were to actually get another SNK character for Ultimate, it'd probably be one of the following:

• Geese
• Kyo
• Iori
• Haohmaru
• Nakoruru
• Metal Slug character

Looking at their chances for just Ultimate, I think all of these characters have a roughly equal chance of getting in over each other. Kyo is the protagonist of KoF while Iori is more popular and is clearly more liked by Sakurai. Same applies to Samurai Shodown, with Haohmaru being the protagonist but Nakoruru being more popular and even appearing in the Terry trailer. Both Iori and Nakoruru however are currently Mii Costumes which may also affect their chances for better or for worse. Geese is of course super popular but they may want to move to a different series to prevent another Smash Bros. x Fatal Fury since we already got that with Terry.

I'm slightly leaning towards the next SNK character being a Metal Slug rep (at least for Ultimate). It's the biggest SNK series with the least amount of content right now. Plus unlike any of the other characters listed, no one from Metal Slug is a costume/spirit/background cameo.

Want: 100%
Pretty self-explanatory. Terry is awesome but I would still be totally down for a few additional SNK characters. If I had to rank the main candidates by how much I'd want them, it go like this:

Kyo > Iori > Metal Slug rep > Geese > Nakoruru > Haohmaru​

Kyo is one of my most wanted characters ever. Iori is just as cool and tbh I think would get more people hyped than Kyo. I've been growing on the idea of a Metal Slug rep with Hero styled alts so I'd love to see them as well. Geese would also be super hype while Nakoruru would be fun with how she could use her bird. I've also been in the mood for playing as a character with a heavy emphasis on sword fighting so I would also be comfortable with Haohmaru. Honestly I don't think there is any SNK character that would really disappoint me.

-----

Concept: Paid Stage DLC

Chance: 25%
This happened with Mario Maker in SSB4 so I can see the same happening here. If they can't work out some sort of promotional character for a new game then they could just add a stage instead of making a full fighter. For now, I feel like the best candidate for this would be a Gen 8 Pokemon stage because I really do feel like we're getting more Galar representation soon. Other options for DLC stages include any of the past Smash stages that aren't in Ultimate. There aren't that many past Smash stages left so I can see a few of them being added.

Want: 80%
It mainly depends on what the actual stages would be but I'd be alright with this. New stages is always great and I really like how Ultimate has been making fairly normal stages without too many crazy stage hazards (something which SSB4 definitely did not do). As far as new games go I'd be down for something from Astral Chain or Age of Calamity. For retro stages, I'd really like for Melee's Mute City to make a comeback. Lastly for just completely unique and out of nowhere stages, I would really like to see a Tetris stage.

-----

Concept: Third Fighters Pass chance prediction: 19.43%

Nominations:
Curly as Quote's alt/echo x10
Trevor Philips x10

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Second SNK Rep

Chance: 1% - I'm in full agreement with TCT, this more than likely just isn't happening. Terry's pack was extremely generous and represented almost all of SNK at once, and other major candidates like Kyo are a part of Terry's spirit board. Having a DLC spirit basically means you're out. Now, Metal Slug remains the only major SNK franchise left unrepresented, and it is reasonable to consider it a candidate. But considering how much SNK got previously Sakurai and Nintendo may consider it enough, plus there aren't many fans clamoring to get Metal Slug into Smash. Overall I just don't see it happening, though I'll leave the door open just in case.

Want: 20% - Eh, not really too interested in Metal Slug, plus SNK basically got a loveletter in Terry's pack. Of course, that isn't a bad thing, Terry's super significant and a celebration of SNK as a whole was a super cool idea, and I'm very happy for his fans! I've just personally had my fill of SNK content for awhile, and with only three slots left Metal Slug is not one of my personal choices. Though I will agree that including one of their characters would being some cool things to the table! We have yet to se a Run n' Gun rep in Smash and I think Sakurai could do a lot of cool things with the idea! But I personally don't see Metal Slug as a priority.


DLC Stage Without a Character

Chance: 50% - This concept is about as much of a coin toss as it gets! There's basically precedent in both directions! Supporting it, we got tons of DLC stages individually (with music, too!) in Smash 4, including Mario Maker, which was a completely original stages (while the rest were returning). We also got Small Battlefield for free recently, which also helps a bit. On the other hand, Ultimate has a much more rigid DLC structure than 4 did and so far every DLC has been in the challenger pack format, leaving little room for individual stages. Furthermore, most of the remaining stages choices, outside of Pac Maze, Poke Floats, and Rainbow Road, would overlap heavily with existing stages in the game. There's the possibility of first party promotional stages (we got Mario Maker just a month after it came out), though with almost no upcoming third party titles aside from the still no release date BoTW2, and even then BoTW has a stage already. It'd also be difficult to go for a third party promotional stage (it can happen, but I don't think Nintendo would negotiate for just a stage). There is one exception though, and that is Tetris, like TCT mentioned. A game deserving to be in and historically significant, but extremely difficult to implement as a challenger pack. Nintendo has been pushing Tetris 99 hard as well, with frequent events and crossovers with their own franchises, so as a promotional choice I think Tetris might be able to make the jump.

Want: 100% - Sure! Why not? Adding more content to the game is always a good thing, and an individual stage wouldn't take up any pass slots, so I'm game! Now, if it's first party, I hope it goes to a franchise that needs it. Though for third parties I think it'd be an excellent way to get more franchises represented without having to fight for character slots. And representation with a stage can work very well, it was fantastic for Animal Crossing back in Brawl! One franchise in particular that I'd love to see this for is the Civilization series (if it isn't able to get a character, of course!), since a Civ map could easily make for some cool stage concepts. Plus 2K has been working with Nintendo throughout the Switch's lifespan so this is feasible, too! I'd also love to see Pac-Maze come back, it was one of my favorite stages in handheld Smash 4! Really, there's no reason to dislike this concept at all, it's more content and more music!


Nominations:
4x Strategy Rep x10
Concept: Miles Edgeworth as Ohoenix Wright's alt/echo x10

Predictions:
Third FIghter's pass - 38.12% - Expecting tons of overrates and underrates, really it's way too early to call something like this, and we have to wait until two characters from now to get a Pass 1-esque "but wait, there's more!" announcement.

 

[Louie G.]

SNK

CHANCE - 1%
The answer for this is pretty simple. Terry already covers the bulk of the SNK content that we could have realistically seen. He is from Fatal Fury, his stage and a lot of his music is from King of Fighters. Metal Slug and Samurai Shodown have music as well, the latter also having a Mii Costume of its most iconic character (where are the Metal Slug costumes???). If there was any intent to add content from these series later, Terry wouldn't have been pushed as a celebration of SNK as a whole and probably would have just covered his series like a normal character.

WANT - 75%
I don't really want it immediately because again, Terry got so much love for the company as a whole, but there are plenty of characters I'd love to see from SNK. I would love to get a Metal Slug character someday (Marco and/or Fio), with how much personality and creativity is bursting from this series it's practically begging to see additional content. I wouldn't mind any number of characters from KOF either - Iori, Kyo, Athena... Nakoruru is cool too. And don't even get me started on Neo Turf Masters! In any case, lots of great potential here and I hope we get to see more of it someday.

STAGE WITHOUT FIGHTER

CHANCE - 50%
I kinda expected to rate this a LOT lower, but I think we could see this happen for a few reasons. We got Small Battlefield dropped pretty randomly not that long ago, and while this may be considered a special case it at least gives us an idea that we could get more. We even got the ability to play any song we want on the general Smash stages, so we could have tracklists offered and shuffled across a few stages if necessary. And yeah, it's not really ever a reliable thing to put stock in, but there are gonna be a few blank spaces once everything is said and done that would be really nice to fill in with a few bonus stages.

There's no precedent for it yet, so it's pretty safe to assume that we won't get one until further notice. It's not a far stretch for me to think up some opportunities for bonus stages for series collaborations that may not be ready to make the jump to playable yet (Monster Hunter? Fortnite?) or simply returning stages like Pac-Maze. For now it just remains a hypothetical, but it's one that I don't think there's any real downside to aside from "it hasn't happened yet". So it could go either way really, it really just hinges on whether or not they want to or if the right opportunity presents itself.

WANT - 100%
Well why not? The more the merrier, I was actually pretty disappointed in the lack of new stages in base Ultimate so I'd like to see more that don't hinge on a new character. Would be especially exciting if it results in some brand new arrangements. There are really endless possibilities here.

PREDICTIONS:
Third Fighter's Pass - 21%

NOMINATIONS:
Billy & Jimmy Lee x10

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Sakurai gushing about Neo Geo for a 2nd time
Chance: 0%
The music selection, stage cameos and Mii costumes in Terry's pack makes it pretty clear he moreso reps SNK as a whole than just his own series. Simply said, it's a one&done deal for SNK. They just don't have many new things left for another spot in a fighters pass.

Want: 10%
I suppose a Metal Slug character would be neat but it's not a must have and it wouldn't necessarily be that series. Honestly, I'm satisfied enough with Terry.

Abstaining on stage without a character

Third Fighters Pass: 15.42%
Henry Stickmin x5

 

[JOJONumber691]

Second SNK Character is more likely than people give credit. It would be extremely easy to obtain more content, and acts as a cheap backup plan for later on when the budget is lower than expected. Metal Slug and SamSho are perfect for this spot btw. 60% Chance, 50% Want. Wants Wise it depends entirely on who it is.

 

[fogbadge]

hmm why not ill have a go

2nd snk

chances: a tricky one to be sure. just about all of snk came with terry so that seem to make it unlikely but sakurai seemed to loooooooove snk so that puts it back up. but then maybe nintendo suggested "an snk rep" rather than specifically terry so that might put it right down again. so im gonna go 10%. i wonder how many people think mai was actually left out so she could be part of this pass and didnt believe sakurai's "good boys and girls" comment. a statement which would make you think he wasnt on twitter.

want: 0% not for me. ive not played any games by this company (i dont think) and not a single one of them appeals to me. ive got no reason to want one.

stage on its own

chances 1% sakurai seems to be focusing on package deals this time around. and what with the smaller team and unusual working conditions im not sure theyll bother with much outside of the pass. i gave it a one percent on the off chance they port one of the remaining old stages.

want: 50% it would depend on what it was. so as it could just as easily be a stage id love as one i hate ill give it 50/50.

ive lost track of the noms err qbby x5

 

[GoodGrief741]

Spoiler: Nominations post-Master Chief/Kratos pre-Concept: Second SNK Character/Concept: Stages without fighters as DLC

[Rerate] Monokuma x360
Concept: Characters that don't have games on Nintendo platforms x340
Qbby x335
[Rerate] Neku x329
Marina Liteyears x320
Beat (Jet Set Radio) x315
Mii Costume: Madeline x310

350 - 301

Concept: Among Us character x305

300 - 251

Henry Stickmin x300
Concept: A 4X strategy rep x275
[Rerate] Velvet Crowe x265

250 - 201

Worms x245
Crazy Dave x245
Concept: Team Fortress 2 rep x235
[Rerate] Concept: League of Legends rep x222
John Marston x220

200 - 151

Peppino (Pizza Tower) x182
Tetra x180
Mike Haggar x175
Concept: Far Cry rep x174
Concept: A 3rd party company gets more than one fighter in the same pass x170
Zagreus x165
Excitebiker x165
Agent 47 x165

150 - 101

Concept: Curly as Quote's alt/Echo x145
Concept: Miles Edgeworth as Phoenix Wright's Alt/Echo x140
Riptor x140
Mii Costume: Monika x135
Boss: Ender Dragon x118
Stage: Bowser's Castle x117
D.Va x115
Boss: Rayquaza x115
Kaede Akamatsu x115
Concept: A BioShock protagonist x111
Mii Costume: 2B x110
Estelle Bright x110
Senator Armstrong x110
Mii Costume: Alex Kidd x108

100 - 51

Concept: A Challenger Pack with 2 Fighters x100
Fulgore x94
Giygas x90
[Rerate] Concept: Any new Xenoblade character x90
Trevor Philips x90
Echo (Bowser) x85
Junpei (Zero Escape) x81
Concept: Darksiders rep x80
Sackboy x80
[Rerate] Carmen Sandiego x80
Billy & Jimmy Lee x80
Concept: More ATs as one new item x75
Dwight Fairfield (Dead by Daylight) x75
Concept: Rocket League rep x75
[Rerate] Concept: New Zelda character x70
Echo (Olimar) x61
Ghirahim x60
Concept: SNES-era Final Fantasy rep x55
Gooigi x55
Vi (Bug Fables) x55
Echo: Zeraora (Lucario) x55
[Rerate] Jin Kazama x55
Magolor x55
Jin Sakai x55
Rallen (Spectrobes) x55

50 - 25

Stage: Tetris x50
Ryza (Atelier) x45
Filia (Skullgirls) x31
Mii Costume: Zagreus x25
Concept: Large and Normal Final Destination made into separate stages x25

Under 25

Regigigas x20
[Rerate] Metal Sonic x20
[Rerate] Agumon x20
Concept: From Software rep x20
Yarn Yoshi x15
[Rerate] Shovel Knight x15
[Rerate] Zhao Yun x15
[Rerate] Louie x15
Tetris x10
Slash Kamei (Snowboard Kids) x10
[Rerate] Yuri Lowell x10
Jesse (Control) x10
Infernape x10
Concept: Danganronpa protagonist x10
Concept: Rocket League content x5
[Rerate] Thrall x5
[Rerate] Lara Croft x5
Stage: Tetris 99 x5
Concept: Raizing shmup rep x5
Donbe and Hikari x5
Soma Cruz x5
Concept: KOS-MOS with T-elos alt x5
[Rerate] Master Hand x5
[Rerate] Arthur x5
Pyramid Head x5
Firebrand x1

Neku dashes past Marina Liteyears and retakes fourth place. Beat skates past Among Us character and into sixth place, and Among Us character is expelled from the top seven by Mii Costume: Madeline.

Agent 47 sneaks past 150 noms.

Joining the nominations list is Concept: From Software rep, with 20 noms.

Some SNK songs to get in the mood for today:

Spoiler: SNK Music

Also another round of songs because the other rating isn't really applicable for a music post:

Spoiler: SNK Music Again

Damn, SNK even gets the deluxe treatment here

 

[GoodGrief741]

The people who can't catch a damn letter

Chance: 15%
Yo, SNK could totally get another character. Terry came with a lot of content, sure, but in no way that's the end of all we could get. King of Fighters XV should be releasing around this year, that's a whole game's worth of content that could come with Kyo. But hey, maybe the KoF-verse is too represented. The stage certainly features all of the realistic candidates from it and while there's stages to bring (obviously, it's a freaking fighting game) it's hard to get more definitive than a stage literally called King of Fighters. However, there's still Metal Slug and Samurai Shodown. Metal Slug is huge, ****, it's probably bigger than King of Fighters and would have gotten a character if it wasn't for the fact that fighting games are SNK's bread and butter. We still don't have a run-and-gun character and the only competition is Contra. Samurai Shodown doesn't have the legacy but it was the game that spearheaded SNK's comeback, plus Nakoruru has her fans. Both of them have a lot of room to grow, especially Metal Slug (SamSho has two Spirits, a Mii Costume and 3 songs; Metal Slug has only 6 songs and nothing else). I don't think anyone would be blamed if they thought that Metal Slug had no content in Ultimate, which speaks volumes to how little it got in proportion to its status as a series.

Want: 100%
I'd love the Peregrine Falcons as Hero-style alts. Though I really just need Fio, Fio's the best. And of course I'd gladly take Kyo because Kyo's rad, and I wouldn't even be mad if Mai got in to make up for her snub or if Iori got in because Sakurai's a fan.

Introducing: Upside-Down Battlefield

Chance: 8%
I guess I could see it happening. Nobody expected Small Battlefield. But COVID kinda makes these small "would-be-cool" projects a lot harder. It looked like stuff was going back to normal in Japan but then they declared a state of emergency so it looks like it's going to be work from home for Sakurai and pals for the foreseeable future. Maybe they could pull it off but like Echoes I see it as unlikely given priorities.

Want: 100%
More stages are always good. One of the worst things about Ultimate was that we only got 4 new stages. We could really use more. Plus it's always fun to have unrepresented franchises repped through stages. If Astral Chain and Ring Fit Adventure can't get characters, then stages would be the next best thing, especially as they both take place in pretty spectacular locales. But I'd take something wacky and random like Miiverse or Mario Maker too.

Noms: Marina x20
FP3 prediction: 18.92%

 

[fogbadge]

The people who can't catch a damn letter

that made me laugh

 

[Pillow]

2nd SNK Rep
Chance - 1%
I'm not really seeing it. There's certainly plenty of series to pick from, though none of them are really big household names. I'd be more hopeful if Terry brought less content with him, but he even arrived with Metal Slug music. When Terry came to Smash he came to rep SNK, rather than Fatal Fury or KOF. Even Terry, mister SNK himself, was met with a lot of "??? who's that" responses when he was revealed.

Want - 60%
It'd kind of depend on who it is, but there's certainly a lot of SNK characters I wouldn't mind seeing in Smash. I just really adore Nakoruru and Fio's designs especially. They're just cute as hell. I also like Iori and Geese. But none of these characters really have the weight that 3rd parties need to show up in Smash. Sad to say, but pretty much any of the potential SNK characters are small time relative to Smash.


Solo Stage
Chance - 10%
Real talk, this'd be higher if Smash didn't already have so many goddamn stages. The stage select screen is already somewhat cluttered as it is. That said, I'm giving this a non-negligible chance just because I feel there are tons of environments that would heavily fit Smash that don't / have low amounts of content in the game that don't have a suitable character to come with. The most glaring example to me here is - Tetris. I'm really surprised there is no Tetris stage. It could conceivably come with Arle Nadje but it's a big enough game to come by itself. Other environments in a similar boat would be Aperure Science Portal stage with GlaDOS in the background, or Skyrim.

Want - 50%
Could take or leave it. I'm not actively against it or anything, but I'm also really not pining for more stages either unless they are both 1. designed to be legal for competitive (which is never the case) and 2. based on extremely iconic settings that fit Smash to a tee

Predictions:
DLC 3 - 60%

Noms-
From Software Rep x20

 

[DanganZilla5]

Concept: Another Chance of Getting a ***** Ton of Music

Chance: 15%

I do think this is possible considering that SNK seems to be really easy to work with and there are still prime candidates such as Marco, Geese, Kyo, Haohmaru, etc. Some of SNK's series have some content, but not a lot. Metal Slug has about 5 songs but no spirits and no Mii costumes despite it being a very good pick for a Mii Gunner. Samurai Shodown has 3 songs and 2 spirits. And Ikari Warriors, a classic and influential game, only got one spirit. So there is still some room for more content (King of the Monsters content please!!).

But the thing is that Terry really does feel like he represents all of SNK. Most of SNK's biggest series have some kind of representation and it's a lot of content overall. A large part of why SNK was approached was most likely due to Sakurai's love for their fighting games and the fact that Fatal Fury directly impacted Smash. But with Fatal Fury and King of Fighters having so much content, it really feels like SNK is done for this game unless if Nintendo has a strong interest in some of their other series. And I know that Sakurai didn't choose the characters, but it's clear with Joker and Terry that he does have some say, at least for the first pass.

Want: Abstain

It really depends. If they choose Marco, Ralf/Clark or even Geese, I would be down for it. Plus we might end up with King of the Monsters music and/or spirits and that would be awesome. But for the rest of their characters, I don't particularly care for and I am not a big SNK fan in the first place. So I'm satisfied with the content we already have and I would rather see a new company get some content.

__________________________

Standalone stage as DLC

Chance: 10%

I have a funny feeling this could happen, but so far there is not much pointing toward it. Smash 4 had standalone stages but that game's DLC was more scattered. Plus the only new individual stage was Mario Maker, which was a special case as it was a part of Mario's anniversary celebration. The rest of the stages that didn't come along with newcomers were older stages which could be brought back easier. I guess they could bring back older stages like Pac Maze and Rainbow Road, but it doesn't seem like they have much extra time for that. At the most, I only see us getting minor stages like Small Battlefield in free updates, like maybe the Monster Hunter stage (If a hunter isn't becoming playable). There is precedence, sure, but Ultimate's DLC has been consistent and for all we know this second fighters pass is all we are going to get.

Want: 100%

Pac Maze and Rainbow Road need to be brought back. Period. Those were great stages and there was no strong reason for why they didn't come back. I loved those stages and would happily pay money for them. Other than those, Pokefloats, Orbital Gate Assault, and even the Yoshi Woolly World stage would be good picks. New stages would also be hype too. Bowser's Castle, a Tetris stage, a stage for any upcoming game, etc. Those first two in particular need to happen one day and it's shocking they aren't a thing yet. I would also be interested in a Civilization stage too. There are just so many great choices and I'm always up for more content.

Prediction: FP3 - 30%
This day is going to be heated. It's hard to tell where the majority will lie in.

Noms: Among Us character x20

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

BRING BACK US SPORTS TEAM YOU FILTHY COWARDS.

Chance: 1%

If there's one thing im sure it's not happening, it's this. I mentioned how Sephiroth being rated so low in my part was dumb, i was simply too fixated on the Doll instead of noticing how FF7, Square's most important game was basically neglected in Smash. One Character that doesn't even speak English, 2 songs, 1 stage, 2 Spirits (not even original Artwork btw) Cloud didn't appeared in World of Light cutscenes, etc. FF7's inlcusion in Smash Ultimate felt so rushed and lacking that it really put into perspective that the idea of "Square wanted Cloud again as DLC but Sakurai wanted all veterans to be Base game" rumor that was going rampant 2 years ago.

Im a hundred percent sure that if we got all of the Seph's DLC songs, all the spirits and all that extra stuff in base game for FF7 content, we wouldn't have gotten Seph as DLC, and he would have been an Assist Trophy or Boss instead. But instead, Square held that content to Seph so they could get some extra cash for DLC.

If this "hold content back for future DLC" theory i have is put into work with the rest of the Third Parties, the SNK really has no real chance anymore. They blew their load all in with Terry's pack. It wasn't really just Smash X Fatal Fury, it was Smash X SNK. they put all the content they could cram in. Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Metal Slug, Art of Fighting, Samurai Showdown, all in one package with Spirits, Cameos and Music.

Want: 0%

I think i got my fill with Terry, no thanks.


Predictions:

FP3: 50.23

Lots of people will see this as a likely outcome because they want it, not because it is i feel.

 

[Perkilator]

Abstain on SNK. I'm pretty good with Terry,

Moar stages
Chance: 45%
We did get Small Battlefield, so (for better or worse) we could get a stage completely unrelated to a Challenger Pack. There are chances those 3 empty spots could just stay empty, or Sakurai could be working on auxillary stages (which I understand is a lot of work).

Want: 100%
I mainly just want Rainbow Road, Wooly World and PAC-MAZE back. They can totally add them back in free updates. if they want, and I'm all for it. If those last 3 spots are left empty, I'm never gonna let Sakurai live it down when DLC ends.

3rd pass: 50%

Noms:
Crazy Dave x5

 

[Jomosensual]

2nd SNK Rep

Chance 0 - I think this is pretty much dead. With how much content we got with Terry's pack and FP2 obviously being decided by then it feels pretty clear that if there was anyone else SNK related coming they would have held something back. Instead they did the opposite of that. I'm sure there's some content they could bring but it felt like the pack was designed to rep the entire company last time which makes me think we're done with SNK for at least this pass. Maybe Metal Slug has a chance but once again, it feels like the decision to do the pack how they did it feels like that's not in the cards.


Want 20 -Eh, I'm good I think. I don't know much about SNK outside of what Smash has given me and while it seems fine, I feel like Terry's representation is a good enough cover for the entire company right now. It really is one of the better challenger packs they've done. I'd rather them make a play for a lot of other companies or series first. There's some picks that could be fun like Nakaruru but overall I don't feel like I want or need it.


Stages outside the pass

Chance 50 - Either it happens or it doesn't at this point. I doubt that we'll get a huge splash return of a stage like Pokefloats or anything like that. I wouldn't be shocked to see some odd stage variants though, something like the small battlefield stage we already got. Covid related issues make me think that this is a probably not. However, Small Battlefield was made during covid too so.... I guess I don't know. Sakurai probably has the call either way on this and with him who knows.


Want 50 - I don't really care either way. There are a few stages that I'd really like to see back personally. Something like Pac Maze or Poke-Floats would be really nice. Don't really see it though. Granted, Sakurai is Sakurai and we don't really know what he's doing. Some random new stages from series unrepped would be really sweet but I'm not going to get my hopes up for that.

Predictions:
Fighters Pass 3 - 42%

Noms:
John Marston x10
Far Cry rep x10

 

[Commander_Alph]

2nd SNK rep

Chances: 0%

it's really phenomenal to see SNK get a representation among the big league of the video game industry (not counting Atlus or MonolithSoft who fall under a bigger umbrella that is SEGA and Nintendo) which means that it open up other possibilities for small video game company to make it in, and it's also the downside especially SNK whom already give everything they got to Terry. Samsho character? We already got Nakoruru as a mii with her and Haohmaru's theme. How about Metal Slug? I mean that could work but we already got several music from that game.


Want: 0%

I'm already happy with Terry and I don't really need another character from the company, even if I'm going with my favorite it doesn't seem pretty realistic considering they're just supporting character.



Stage Outside the Pass... Abstain

Noms:
Danganronpa Protagonist 5×
Agumon 10×

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah I'll take ****ing uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Chance 0% Yeah nah this is straight up not happening. I firmly believe that more DLC was at least considered when the first pass' characters were locked in, we also know that dev documents for the characters aren't finalized when the pass is locked in as Sak outright said one character was unable to get that on time due to COVID last year and SNK has a ludicrous amount of content. If we were getting an additional character, we wouldn't have gotten all that stuff but rather Fatal Fury in particular, with maybe a dash of KoF. But not all that, SamSho and Metal Slug

Want 50% Usually I'd abstain due to how varied it is but Geese, Kyo, Iori, Leona, Mai, Nakoruru, Fio, Marco, King, Athena, Kula, Vice, Rugal, K' and many, many more are so cool that I'm at the very least down for the idea, I'm not an expert on SNK but their cast of characters is so goddamn large and varied that I've remembered characters like Rock, Blue Mary, Joe, Haohmaru, Shuri and Hibiki when writing this sentence, all this just goes to show how goddamn cool all these characters are. Besides, Terry was objectively speaking the best character in the first pass due to the sheer amount of content and he was also my favourite of the characters to play and added possibly the most fun stage in the series, to get even more would truly be spoiling us and I'd love it.

STAGE SELECT

Abstain, depends entirely on the stage and music, too varied as not even a franchise is specified here

Velvet Crowe x10
Zagreus x10

 

[Lionfranky]

Dude they literally are though lol

Banjo was a heavy request in Japan and SNK games are widely popular in Japan, literally America is one of the only places the games aren’t popular in

I guess agree to disagree. I gave my reasoning and evidence. If we bring votes and ballots, Geno looks much more famous. Smash votes don't reflect overall fame in general. The last KOF didn't do hot in Japan the last time I checked. And let's end this here.

Another SNK

Chance: 0%

It's beating a dead horse I know, but amount of contents Terry brought was kinda overkill that didn't leave any room for another SNK character. They would have left out music and Mii costumes from series like Samurai Showdown and Metal Slug if another SNK character was down the line. It doesn't make any business sense overall to bring another SNK. It would be redundant to do so. The whole point of each slot isn't just a playable character, but also new additional contents that only that character can bring. SNK is pretty well covered at this point.

Want: 90%

Metal Slug is one of my childhood memory. Putting lots of coins in aracde machine still brings memory. Marco would bring interesting mechanic with his weapons and vehicles. There are tons of stuff to pull from Metal Slug franchise. But on the other hand, I think he could be an excellent assist trophy. It's bummer that all Metal Slug got was music.... which is pretty shame.

Stage DLC

Chance: 50%

There is precedent. I think it can happen. Sure, stage would take more resource and time than Spirit would do, but series like Tetris could use stage to represent one of the most iconic game series of all times. But Sakurai would most likely want to focus on this pass. It depends on how he splits and manages his team.

Want: 100%

I would be fine with this. We can definitely use more extra stage especially for series like Tetris. There are many series that can at least use stages. Some could bring interesting dynamic although that may require more effort than Sakurai would want. Even updates on existing maps would be welcomed.

Nom: Characters that don't have their games on Nintendo platform x 5
3rd party company gets more than one fighter in the same pass x 15

 

[Lyncario]

Fixed schedule part 14: Double Dealing SNK

SNK 2: Electric boogaloo

Chances: 0.1%

Let's start with the positives that SNK have at first. They are more than willing to give their content to Sakurai and Nintendo so that it can be in Smash, as evidenced by Terry's pack being so full of references, cameos, and music. More than probably the easiest 3rd party to work with that got a playble fighter in Smash as of now. But here's the thing. Terry was a perfect addition to represent SNK and KoF, a series that helped in the creation of Smash, as Terry is their most popular character, and came with so much content. What else is there to add, now? Like, with Sephiroth, we know that they are willing to add content to a series trough dlc, but Final Fantasy had 2 tracks before Sephiroth and no spirits, not 50 tracks and many spirits, KoF is nowhere near badly represented as FF was by a very wide margin, especialy not when you take all the cameos there are in KoF stadium. I just see little to no point to add another SNK character as dlc right now, with the exception of Metal Slug since it's not part of KoF, but even then I don't see why Nintendo would want another SNK character now since Terry did such a great job of representing his company with his pack.

Want: 90%

Terry became one of my favorite dlc character very quickly due to his personality, his extremly fun playstyle, the great stage that came along, and the insane ammount of tracks he brought. And while another SNK character just wouldn't be able to bring as many songs, they could still have an amazingly fun playstyle and entairtening personality, like for example, Geese Howard, or Kyo Kusanagi, or Iori Yagami, or Haohmaru, Nakoruru, or Marco Rossi, or Mai- wait, no, she's not for good boys and girls. But the thing is that most SNK characters could be so fun to play as, especialy since I like the gameplay of Ryu, Ken, and Terry so much. Man, I really hope that they get someone else in Smash one day, even if I think that their best shot would be for the base game of the next Smash.

Hey, the Mario Maker stage in Sm4sh was like that

Chances: 35%

I'm not too confident on that hapening, but I still think that it has a pretty good shot overall. One big plus it has is how it already hapened in Sm4sh, with for example the Mario Maker stage, so it's possible that for example BotW2 could get a new stage like that. Another thing in the favor of it hapening, but also going against it, is Small Battlefield, which we got as downlodable content post release, even if it was free. We could get more like Small Battlefield, or nothing, or smaller stuff like a BotW2 stage, and while I'm unsure of it hapening at all, I'm still more confident on this concept as a whole that on any specific characters as of now.

Want: 50%

Yeah, sure. It would be nice to have more stages, especialy if they come with musics. It would also be very nice if we get some old stages that weren't in base Ultimate, like Rainbow Road or Pac-Maze. It would especialy be cool if they were tournament legal, though I wouldn't mind some casual stages too.

Predictions

Fighter pass 3: 33.3%

Nominations

Madeline mii x15

 

[Inue Houji]

2nk rep
Chance: 1%
As many people have said, it seemed like SNK gave Nintendo all they could already. Pretty much the only thing that remains is Metal Slug. I don't think a Metal Slug character is planned, it's just a coincidence.
I can't find any sales numbers for Metal Slug, so I'll just go by observations. As far as I know, Metal Slug was a mid-size franchise in the late 90s - early 00. Nowadays it has fallen into obscurity though.
With that being the case, I don't see much incentive for Nintendo make DLC out of it. And it doesn't(as far as we know) have Sakurai's adoration to back it up like KOF/FF did.

Want: Abstain
It's too broad for me to give a rating. I haven't played many SNK games, but the character designs are nice for the most part. If we were to get one, I'd lean towards a Samurai Shodown character. The visuals in thoss games are awesome, and I'd love to see them in Smash.


DLC stages
Chance: 10%
I think they're banking hard on the fighter passes this time around. Yes, a FP3 is uncertain at the moment. But if they continue development at all, think FP3 is way more likely than DLC stages. There's still a chance they'd make it at the end of the FPs, as a sendoff.
I wouldn't count on it though.

Want: 50%
It's bonus content I guess. Getting the old stages back would be nice, like Pokefloats.
I'm iffy on new stages though, as I can't think of any game from which I wouldn't rather have a character instead, but Tetris. I guess other old games could be cool too, like Space Invaders, or a Pong stage.
Alas, I'm not sure if I would even buy them.


Predictions
FP3: 37.1%

Nominations
Beat x20