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R.I.P. Kjell Anders "Nappy" Peterson.

SuSa

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,508
Location
planking while watching anime with Fino
If you read me in the Tier Discussion, I'm pretty against ratio's. I normally state the advantage/disadvantage.

I just hate being asked ratio's if I do that. -_-

Look harder onto the paper. xD Even in theory I see Snake shutting down DK. (And I know DK from a bit of playing him, moderating the boards, Bigfoot, M7H, and Jmex)
 

Nic64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,725
My perspective may just be tainted because I also play MK where I can just mash B a lot FTW, come to think of it...
 

gallax

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
5,641
Location
Orlando(UCF), Fl
the fact that we can camp DK makes this matchup bearable. dk isnt really that hard to play against. the best thing he has is a long ftilt, some powerful smashes, and a bair that can space. but as snake im not approaching a dk. that alone makes this hard for dk since he really doesnt have anything that can pressure snake.

edit: i hate the IC matchup. lol. id say its in favor of snake but if the IC knows how to cg away from fallen nades it gets pretty darn tough.
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN


Falco is 60-40 our favor, maybe even better.
ADHD says snake:Diddy is 60:40 Snake, some agree with him. I say 55:45
Pikachu is a ****ing joke, drop a grenade. Drop a C4, blow self up. GG. Pikachu got nothing on you now.

DDD/Olimar are no worse then 60:40.
MK isn't really a "bad matchup". It's really even.

EDIT
@Nic
I was playing DA. I could find many flaws and point them out about MK, but really. Without listing his pro's. ;p

No Falco would take Snake to Japes. It's also my CP against them, Snake ***** them there.
I also CP'd DSF to RC.

Snake only has "bad stages" in very few matchups. (D3 @ Delfino for instance) Snake does bad against Falco on Lylat. (Lylat is "Falco's worst stage")

Snake vs DK is a ****ing joke matchup. I lost it once, back when I didn't know it. The more I play it, the more it makes me laugh. DK has nothing unless you fall for it.

Snake vs Marth IS harder then Snake vs MK IMO.
do you actually play this game or do you just theory talk all the time. Seriously
 

IxxI

Smash Fence
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
2,147
Location
Berkeley, CA
Lol, I used to complain about DK so hard.
"lul, he canz through u against stage in cargo and kill u. not fair!!!! :mad: "

Cooked grenades are the sex in this matchup.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
18,990
His smashes are gay especially when your on the cypher, and so is his meteor smash, his dair his faster and more powerful than Snake's fair. Even though I said lots of disadvantages about Snake, I'm still leaning on 55:45 Snake for some reason or no reason -_-
 

Zajice

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
11,167
Location
Equestria
I hate DK.

Because it's DK.

It has nothing to do with his moves, how he plays, or anything like that.

I just hate DK.
 

Nic64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,725

Also it seems I say something, I'm "wrong", then 5-6 months later everyone starts to agree with me. <_<
Well, even if you are right about japes being a bad stage for Falco to take Snake to, it's still totally inaccurate to say "lol what falco would take you there!?", it's a very common choice regardless of how wise or unwise a choice it may be.

Diddy wrecks MK's air games because of his bananas ( Yeah I know you can air dodge )
What? Banana's are a problem for MK's ground game, MK's air game is why he still beats Diddy.

late edit: gl SuSa! Are you still going mostly Sheik?
 

En.Ee.Oh

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Messages
2,527
Either he's joking or he's had a very sudden change of heart or was playing the devils advocate before, he's been talking a lot about Snake's flaws as of late...



What? MK has uses for almost all of his attacks while Snake relies mostly on the same 3-5 ones being used over and over again, his attacks have great power and start up time but he is less versatile and more predictable by comparison. Furthermore, MK's mobility is a huge element of his strength that you don't get when you just break down attack vs attack, if you only take moveset into account, MK might not even be a top 3 character IMO, his mobility really puts him over the top.



MK's ftilt is better than Snake's, it outranges it by a fair margin, starts up faster, and has transcendent priority. Snake's ftilt is very overrated in terms of range, unless you use the second hit(which is telegraphed from a mile away), you get outranged by a lot of good characters(MK, DDD, ROB, Marth, Olimar, DK, ZSS, IC's even as insignificant as that is...) and some other characters such as Wario can work around it fairly easily. And as SuSa has made a point of saying lately, the second hit of ftilt that gives it that broken "omg 21%" power is completely avoidable if you get hit by the first hit. Snake's ftilt is possibly the single most overrated attack in this game.

Snake's utilt is amazing for what it does but what it doesn't do is part of one of Snake's bigger weaknesses, it doesn't protect him that well from aerial attackers and his other options are all either too slow or don't have good range, Snake's practical air defense is mostly limited to running away if your opponent is executing right, this happens maybe once or twice before Snake runs out of stage to run on, and has given up stage position that makes him more vulnerable/weakens his weight advantage.

MK's moveset is quite amazing itself. His ftilt, dtilt, dsmash, fsmash, uair, nair, tornado, and shuttle loop are all borderline broken with every other attack being great with the exception of up smash and DC attack. Then other attacks that are merely really good such as fair and dair become stupidly good when you add his multiple jumps into the equation.

Snakes grenades are more important to him than most if not all of what you just mentioned too IMO.



Maybe not overall/against everyone(brinstar and japes are pretty close...), but in specific matchups Snake has lots of bad stages, at the very least he is far far easier to counterpick than MK whose disadvantaged stage/character combinations can be counted on one hand(Snake on Halberd, Falco on Japes...and these aren't even really agreed on).



Snake is even with Wario IMO, maybe even beats him. I also think ROB, Marth, DK, and Diddy are even with him. Not sure that MK really beats Snake either



I'm hesitant to rank things 7:3 or worse when there isn't some gimmick like chain grabs involved, I'd lean more towards 65:35 but either way it's not close.



tbh I'm half doing it out of boredom, woke up early and nothing better to do than theory battle <_<



Marth posts were funny when the game came out, I reread one by EL pretty recently about how Marth beats MK, people were still high on him from Melee and there wasn't much nerfing...people just didn't know how good some of the new characters were.
gotta love this guy buahahahha

nic, my favorite training pahtnuh


oh, and marth and mk both beat snake
 

Darkshadow7827

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
1,532
Location
Lower reaches of Shelbrunkand
Bah, I was at some convention for college students where they give away free **** and there was brawl tourney that was gonna start in 1.5 hours. >.< I left because they have those s****y gamestop controllers that are thick and unresponsive. I want to go tomorrow and bring my REAL GC controller but I got a biochem test on monday :(
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN

I'll be at Active tomorrow.

I also place well at nearly every tournament I attend. I'm not some random scrub.

Also it seems I say something, I'm "wrong", then 5-6 months later everyone starts to agree with me. <_<
Dunno SuSa. You're my fav mod but lately posts like that get to me. NOt only did you say snake vs. falco was 6/4, you also posted that marth was harder than mk in the same post. Were you joking? I mean, seriously. Were you joking? Did I just get trolled?

I dont think I've ever agreed with anything you've said that was really....like weird and hard to grasp. Especially with the DDD vs. falco matchups. They are both 55/45 not snakes favor at best imo and its gonna stay that way.
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
nsm beat me to the question. I was hoping you would've at least tilted that son of a *****!

this discussion reminds me of a talk 2 smashers were having today about girls. Something about wavedashing u pclose then L canceling. But the guy placed the puns so well with some decent girl advice that it was hilarious. IT ended in a ken combo which was just a sexual innuendo.
 

Nic64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,725
oh, and marth and mk both beat snake

noooooooooooooooooooo

This is why I just close my ears and yell IT'S ALL EVEN

Dunno SuSa. You're my fav mod but lately posts like that get to me. NOt only did you say snake vs. falco was 6/4, you also posted that marth was harder than mk in the same post. Were you joking? I mean, seriously. Were you joking? Did I just get trolled?

I dont think I've ever agreed with anything you've said that was really....like weird and hard to grasp. Especially with the DDD vs. falco matchups. They are both 55/45 not snakes favor at best imo and its gonna stay that way.
Ekansboards are too good, love coming to a message board where the moderator may be trolling more than I am. Only character board I really care for anymore, and I don't even main Snake lol

But Marth potentially being harder for Snake than MK isn't totally unheard of, if you look up the Ally vs MikeHaze vids, Shaya(a Marth main) is commenting and suggests that...idk how he came to that conclusion when he says Marth should run away, MK is better at that, but it's not just something a few Snake's here randomly came up with

I think we should do that though, just go to some random low tier board and be all like "you guys beat us 40:60 yo", if we get good people like afro/candy/razer/wahtever other good lurkers around here to go along with it it's potentially epic

wtf that sucks syx *obligatory joke about how snake players can't even be killed by a **** car*, borken!
 

SamuraiPanda

Smash Hero
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
6,924
Pikachu is a ****ing joke, drop a grenade. Drop a C4, blow self up. GG. Pikachu got nothing on you now.
Play Anther and say that again.

MK isn't really a "bad matchup". It's really even.
45-55. Absolutely not even.


Snake vs Marth IS harder then Snake vs MK IMO.
LOLOL. This matchup is probably around 60-40. I know the matchup rather well. In Ally vs MikeHaze, you'll see Ally struggling to beat Mike until I gave Ally some tips between matches. The second game after that, Mike literally started looking around and asking the crowd, "What do I do? I can't beat this."

So... yeah.
 

Nic64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,725
LOLOL. This matchup is probably around 60-40. I know the matchup rather well. In Ally vs MikeHaze, you'll see Ally struggling to beat Mike until I gave Ally some tips between matches. The second game after that, Mike literally started looking around and asking the crowd, "What do I do? I can't beat this."

So... yeah.
I think you should share this advice with the rest of us then :)
 

ksizl4life

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,222
Location
NJ/NY
Play Anther and say that again.



45-55. Absolutely not even.




LOLOL. This matchup is probably around 60-40. I know the matchup rather well. In Ally vs MikeHaze, you'll see Ally struggling to beat Mike until I gave Ally some tips between matches. The second game after that, Mike literally started looking around and asking the crowd, "What do I do? I can't beat this."

So... yeah.
ally says he played dumb and didnt use grenades and that no one gave him tips lol
 
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