Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[rPSIvysaur]

Please don't say dash input or crouch input. Please say stuff like Down A-stick input or refer to the

789
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or hands on the clock A-stick inputs. K thx bai.

So basically buffered pivot grab yay! (freaking awesome for tether characters IMO)

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Well I was referring to them as such because that's how the games reads them, which makes this possible:leek:

 

[Yikarur]

He doesn't dash in place in the opposite direction with the second dash (if I'm understanding you right). He inputs the second dash after the down input to, well, dash. However, once he inputs opposite direction + Z, he is essentially cancelling the dash on frame 0, its input frame, because of buffering. This is how BDACUS works. And since he didn't gain anything from the dash apart from making the grab a pivot grab, he pivot dash grabs in place instead of doing it moving backwards, which allows multiple grabs.

tl;dr facing right
first dash input to the left is to register turn around
crouch input to allow a second dash input in the same direction
second dash input to register "start dash w/o turnaround this time"
right input + grab to cancel dash momentum and allow a pivot grab

imo:bacon:

Buffering is a strange mystery! you have to think like that: the game processes through your buffering input one after the other. So on the Pivotgrab he does
Back (Turnarround)
Down (Crouch)
Back (Dash)
Back + Aattack + Shield (Pivotgrab)

the game will now process through your inputs, because you can do the completly first three things without any problem, the game does everything simumlaneously (turnarround, crouch, dash) but because Pivotgrab can't be done without dashing first Dedede will dash for exactly one frame and will execute the pivotgrab afterwards.

Bdacus works because you can't use two "Attack" inputs 2 frames in a row because the game reads it as holding. You need to buffer the dash attack forward and can then press A without the game registerung it as holding.
You could now do Bdacus in the opposite direction with that backwards dash buffering xD

 

[Luxor]

but because Pivotgrab can't be done without dashing first Dedede will dash for exactly one frame and will execute the pivotgrab afterwards.

I seem to remember not getting that frame of dash when I tested the other day, or I got it for a while, did something different, and then didn't get it. I'm going to double check right now.

EDIT: getting IASA frame 47 and a grab frame 53 with a 7-frame pivot grab, I don't think there's a dash frame in there. NTSC at least.

EDIT2: Anybody remember where I can find that list of which bone in PSA is what body part/area in-game?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

EDIT2: Anybody remember where I can find that list of which bone in PSA is what body part/area in-game?

I want this. So far though I've been able to identify quite a few bones on TL and ROB through hitbox data deduction. That's not enough though.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

go into workshop and search "bone collaboration" I did like all of the work on that lol.

edit: did it for you: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=250327&highlight=bone+collaboration

 

[Luxor]

Muchas gracias, señor.

 

[Yikarur]

I seem to remember not getting that frame of dash when I tested the other day, or I got it for a while, did something different, and then didn't get it. I'm going to double check right now.

EDIT: getting IASA frame 47 and a grab frame 53 with a 7-frame pivot grab, I don't think there's a dash frame in there. NTSC at least.

EDIT2: Anybody remember where I can find that list of which bone in PSA is what body part/area in-game?

well NTSC and PAL have no difference and I do anything in NTSC too
I just misinterpreted the first frame It really looks like a dash (I've never really played DDD ;__; )
but it makes sense.
---


I still have few things I don't get.
when a character grabs the ledge with an special that puts him in special fall (every special that also triggers the landing lag penalty) does have reduced air mobility when they hang on the ledge after the special and release.
why is that?
why does that penalty even exist? Coding error?
and does the air mobility and penalty thing have something common?
I'm curious because it's a really gameplay impacting glitch.

 

[thexsunrosered]

well NTSC and PAL have no difference and I do anything in NTSC too
I just misinterpreted the first frame It really looks like a dash (I've never really played DDD ;__; )
but it makes sense.
---


I still have few things I don't get.
when a character grabs the ledge with an special that puts him in special fall (every special that also triggers the landing lag penalty) does have reduced air mobility when they hang on the ledge after the special and release.
why is that?
why does that penalty even exist? Coding error?
and does the air mobility and penalty thing have something common?
I'm curious because it's a really gameplay impacting glitch.

oh god yes RCO lag ***** so many characters in so many ways, particularly mario and especially Ganon, not that either of those two matter >.>

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I forget what RCO is again...?

 

[Pikabunz]

The landing lag you get from using UpB moves.

 

[Pierce7d]

RCO = Recovery Carry Over Lag
BSL = Bull **** lag
TJG = Triple Jump Glitch

All of these are names for the same thing.

 

[Kinzer]

I just saw this and I thought I ought to ask.

Is anybody aware of what exactly causes the fall-through on transition stages like Castle Siege, PS1, and Delfino Plaza? I think it has to do with invincibility/intangibility but I could be wrong.

 

[Pierce7d]

No, but I'd love to know

 

[DeLux]

I've been doing extensive testing on IC chaingrabs, and right now I'm working on how Damage affects the ability to regrab successfully. At this point, I'm testing the IC dthrow. Specifically, I've been testing Snake at 300%, and have yet to be able to regrab. I've been testing different spacings frame by frame and have yet to be successful. I'm beginning to suspect that it isn't spacing that's an issue and it's some sort of game mechanic that I can't see. Is there any data collected on when someone becomes a hurtbox after a throw?

 

[Luxor]

They're always a hurtbox; I don't know if there's any data about if they're vulnerable right after a throw, but I don't see why they wouldn't be. I'd say it's most likely that Snake just goes too far and too fast out of Nana's grab range. Do you have any more details? If you share the input map you're using I could take a look at it too.

 

[DeLux]

I don't think they are always a hurtbox. I'll explain why with some frame data stuff.

00 : 00 : Input Dthrow 
10 : 83 : Input spacing walk for X frames 
XX : XX : Finish inputting spacing frames
31 : 48 : Input Nana Grab
42 : 30 : Snake hovers in front of IC's.  Hitbox on dthrow also out on this frame.  First hitbox out on  Nana Standing grab.  However, the hitbox on the dthrow seems to override the hitbox on the grab as Snake remains in throw hitstun even though the hitbox on grab is out.
43 : 28 : Successful regrab on second of two frame hitbox for standing grab.

So in this is the procedure I'm using to test varying spacings. The interesting action is on frame 42 because of the jump the thrown character performs from frames 42-43. I'm sure it's the second frame of hitbox regrabbing Snake because if the grab input is initiated one frame earlier on frame 30, it will miss. If you input on frame 32, it will regrab successfully. So the timing isn't at issue. It has something to do with spacing issues, and the fact that Snake is in the ideal grab range on the frames that he's being "hit" by the dthrow.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

You could always set up a third person behind snake after he gets thrown to try to grab him as well.

 

[DeLux]

I don't understand how that would help in testing. Could you explain?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

You say you haven't been able to regrab snake, and you don't think it's spacing but a game mechanic, and you asked if anyone knew when one became a hurtbox after a throw. I'm saying, position a third character so that they can attempt to grab snake after a DThrow, to test what you're asking about.

 

[DeLux]

Alright, I get it now. I was confused on the pronouns. By him, I thought you meant to try to grab the third character. Not have the third character try to grab Snake.


Nvm. I figured out the issue. It was that snake simply goes out of the grab range. At high percents for every dthrow cg transfer, it'll break down like this:

xx :  xx :  Dthrow Hit Box Frame - Character being cg'd is in the ideal grab range for the transfer.  However, since the hitbox goes out on this frame, the game considers the character being still thrown.  

xx+1 : xx+1 : The regrab frame begins here.  Usually the part of the hurtbox that's grabbable is the cg'd character's feet.  If the character moves out of grab range by this frame, then it is impossible to reliably CG dthrow them.

I'm going to continue testing all of this at 300% since most stalling rule sets have a ceiling of 300. If anyone wants to help me test, it would be greatly appreciated. The thread for the project can be found here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=290559

 

[KayLo!]

Is there a code for setting move staleness? I'm trying to test for when Zelda's partially staled dtilt pops characters up, and having to manually stale it every time is really annoying.

 

[Luxor]

It shouldn't/wouldn't be hard for someone with experience to make it, but no.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Is it known that by holding down "A" à la doopwalk, you can hit analogue stick 4/6 + C-stick 2/9 to dash, release analogue stick, but hold C-stick to seemingly buffer another dash? I've been doing quite a bit of work on this, and so, if it is known, I'd like an overview of what is known about it before I research any further.

 

[phi1ny3]

^iirc, yes. I think someone made a thread about it in tactical discussions, but maybe not.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Is there a code for setting move staleness? I'm trying to test for when Zelda's partially staled dtilt pops characters up, and having to manually stale it every time is really annoying.

I think a better pursuit is figuring out general knockback formulas...but my first guess is the simple answer is basically finding the percent D-tilt knocks people upwards in training mode, and then take the stale moves multiplier and divide the percent you had by the appropriate stale move multiplier, which we have a formula for.

Not saying that will actually be the answer...just saying that's the first thing I would test for.

 

[KayLo!]

Meh. It's cool.... I'll rock out on Luigi's.

 

[The Cape]

You can change the scale moves to any percentage at any time. Just tell me what you want it to be and I can formulate the code rather quickly.

[COLOR=Yellow][B]Stale Move Ratio Modifier[/B][/COLOR] 6 lines  (spunit262) 
[COLOR=White]
[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]06FC0988 [/COLOR][COLOR=White]00000028 
[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]3D4CCCCD [/COLOR][COLOR=White]3DCCCCCD[/COLOR][COLOR=White]
[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]3DB851EC [/COLOR][COLOR=White]3DA3D70A[/COLOR][COLOR=White]
[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]3D8F5C29 [/COLOR][COLOR=White]3D75C28F[/COLOR][COLOR=White]
[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]3D4CCCCD [/COLOR][COLOR=White]3D23D70A[/COLOR][COLOR=White]
[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]3CF5C28F [/COLOR][COLOR=White]3CA3D70A[/COLOR][COLOR=Blue]
[COLOR=Yellow][COLOR=White]
Brawl's default
***Individually mods stale move values
[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][U][B]3/4 power stale system[/B][/U]
06FC0988 00000028
3D4CCCCD 3D8CCCCD
3D6E147B 3D63D70A
3D428F5C 3D35C28F
3CF851EB 3CE3D70A
3C8CCCCC 3C63D70A
[COLOR=Blue][COLOR=Yellow][COLOR=White] 
[U][B]1/2 power stale system[/B][/U]

[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]06FC0988 00000028
3D4CCCCD 3D4CCCCD
3D23D70A 3D23D70A
3CF5C28F 3CF5C28F
3CA3D70A 3CA3D70A
3C23D70A 3C23D70A


[COLOR=Blue][COLOR=Yellow] __________________________________________________[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]Stale Move Ratio Modifier (EXPLANATION)

Brawl's default

[COLOR=Red]06FC0988 [/COLOR][COLOR=Blue]00000028 [/COLOR]Code initiation line (must be here)
[COLOR=Red][COLOR=Lime]fresh [/COLOR]3D4CCCCD[/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue][SIZE=1][COLOR=Lime]1[/COLOR][/SIZE] 3DCCCCCD[COLOR=White]---- [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Red]5%(Fresh bonus when not in queue)[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]0.1[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Red][COLOR=Lime]2[/COLOR] 3DB851EC [COLOR=Lime]3 [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Blue]3DA3D70A[/COLOR][COLOR=Red] [COLOR=White]---- [/COLOR]0.09[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]0.08[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Red][COLOR=Lime]4[/COLOR] 3D8F5C29 [/COLOR][COLOR=Blue][COLOR=Lime]5[/COLOR] 3D75C28F[COLOR=White]----- [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Red]0.07[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]0.06[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Red][COLOR=Lime]6[/COLOR] 3D4CCCCD [/COLOR][COLOR=Blue][COLOR=Lime]7[/COLOR] 3D23D70A[COLOR=White]----- [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Red]0.05[/COLOR],[COLOR=Blue] 0.04[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Red][COLOR=Lime]8[/COLOR] 3CF5C28F [/COLOR][COLOR=Blue][COLOR=Lime]9[/COLOR] 3CA3D70A [/COLOR][COLOR=Red][COLOR=White]----[/COLOR]0.03[/COLOR],[COLOR=Blue] 0.02[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Lime]Green[/COLOR]=Number in stale queue 

So stale moves are:
Fresh (105%), 100%, 90%, 80%....20%

To make your own values use this
[URL="http://babbage.cs.qc.edu/IEEE-754/Decimal.html"][SIZE=4][B]Hex converter[/B][/SIZE][/URL]

example:
10%=.1=[COLOR=Blue]3DCCCCCD[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Yellow][B]
DO NOT EXCEED A FLOAT VALUE OF 0.1
[/B][/COLOR]

What would be best to do is to set the first value to whatever you want the move to be staled by (this is the percent that it will be staled down) and then set the rest to 0.

Just remember that the moves stale at 105% then 100% for the first two uses (and the 105% never comes back) then it decays by 9% then by 8% and so on to 2%.

 

[KayLo!]

I saw that, but my brain hurt just looking at it.... wasn't even sure if it was what I needed lol. Not good with codes. At all. x.x

I wanna test for a half staled dtilt and a fully staled one.

 

[Yikarur]

define "halfstaled"
fully stale is "0.46", "half stale" (5 of 9 entries) would be "0,6"

 

[KayLo!]

Then those're the numbers I want.

Zeldas use a lot of dtilt, especially considering dtilt locks, so.... having fresher values isn't really helpful.

 

[The Cape]

Best way to test fully staled would be just to use the move a few times to the final stale (because then it doesnt decay anymore and would be more accurate) I can set up the code for a 0.6 as well though.

 

[KayLo!]

Sounds good! Thanks Cape.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

^iirc, yes. I think someone made a thread about it in tactical discussions, but maybe not.

Okay, well would it be possible to dig the link up for me? I want to know in as much detail as possible how much it was looked into and if anything of interest was derived from it.

 

[Yikarur]

eh I can simply describe the mechanique for you.

If you input something with the C-Stick the Controlstick input gets ignored for one frame.
If you hold the controlstick left and then C-Stick down you get the following input:
left, down, left
in step three the game will think you just tap left and you can dash if you release the controlstick before the buffering window is over o:

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Well, I already knew the mechanics it worked under. I mean, did people look into this dash buffer and find any applications for it?

Also another question: does anybody know where I can find traction values for characters and the initial velocity for the rolls?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Roll distance/Velocity comes from the animations themselves.

 

[The Cape]

Sounds good! Thanks Cape.

Got a study I am going to do, will do it tomorrow for sure.

 

[Kinzer]

Could anybody be so kind as to give me the PSA stats for Sonic's Neutral air?

I'm trying to figure out when the certain hitboxes come up.

Listen, and listen well, because this is probably the only time you'll ever hear a competant Sonic player use this excuse:

Nair hitboxes look way too much alike for me to be able to distinguish them without me having to put a bit of time into finding out when the heavy hitbox starts; how long it lasts, when the medium hitbox stats; and how long it lasts, and when the light hitbox starts; and how long it lasts manually.

It would help to make a project of mine complete. I'm only missing that data, and the trip get-ups and its variants.

Thank you so much in advance.

 

[KayLo!]

If you don't have PSA, there's a link to download it in the repository OP.