Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[KayLo!]

^ I can teach you how to read PSA/OSA if you still need help (it's pretty simple once you get it down), but I dunno anything about pummeling too fast counting as one move.

--

Also, I have a question for people experienced with codes/recording (Bio perhaps?):

Is there a way to save a replay done with frame advance and then play it back normally? I want to record some things being done frame-perfectly at normal speed, but the frame advance inputs mess up the replays.

I looked into the process of making TAS videos hoping for some answers, but it seems like those people use emulators?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Guys, all my ROBros are telling me ASDI don exits in Bawrl.

Wat do?

 

[Pikabunz]

What's ASDI?

 

[Luxor]

ASDI is legitimate in barlw

 

[Kinzer]

^ I can teach you how to read PSA/OSA if you still need help (it's pretty simple once you get it down), but I dunno anything about pummeling too fast counting as one move.

Thank you, but I think I've already found a way to figure something like that out. It's just a matter of whether or not I can force my lazy arse to go about doing it until(/if) I get the desired result.

Also, ditto about that TAS stuff.

Also also, wut DASI?

 

[Kinzer]

Dobule post for bump/assistance on a project of mine.

Can anybody tell me how characters react when struck by an attack?

I want to find the most accurate frame data for character's after Sonic U-Throw's them.

Is it all the same as for how fast one can react, or are some options faster (not considering characters are universally different.) To put it in another perspective, let's take for example Meta Knight. Can he jump, attack, special attack, and airdodge the same frame/time or does the airdodge come out faster than his Back air or whatever? Remember, I'm just giving a hypothetical, I don't know if this is true or not.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Toomai]

It probably depends how much knockback the attack has. For lower knockbacks the target character does an "ow that hurt" animation that I don't think anything can interrupt, but once you start getting into enough power to cause tumbling, airdodges might be faster since Brawl lets you do them while being launched.

 

[Kinzer]

Well, it's both, frankly.

I'm going to get frame data for U-Throw at 0%/12%/possibly 15% (if 3% even makes a difference, which I doubt in this scenario), then I'm going to find out the absolute kill % for characters with perfect MCing/DI/whatnot; which won't get into until the triple digits, rounded to ten.

TYVM.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

My finals are over now, so I got some free time this weekend. Sturds, hit me up. I want to get some of terms work done this weekend with you as well as some ledge data. If anyone else wants to hit me up, feel free to.

 

[Yikarur]

Well, it's both, frankly.

I'm going to get frame data for U-Throw at 0%/12%/possibly 15% (if 3% even makes a difference, which I doubt in this scenario), then I'm going to find out the absolute kill % for characters with perfect MCing/DI/whatnot; which won't get into until the triple digits, rounded to ten.

TYVM.

after the character gets into tumble after a hit airdodge cancel the hitstun in frame 14 and an aerial cancels the hitstun in frame 26. If the character doesn't tumble after the hit is isn't cancable and the hitstun needs to wear off.

 

[DeLux]

In case you haven't seen this thread, this guy should be in the lab: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=295819

He and I were working on a modified grab break formula and I was wondering what the theoretical maximum inputs per frame one can input to mash?

 

[Pikabunz]

Maximum inputs is 2 per frame. 1 analog input and 1 button input.

 

[phi1ny3]

Is there any truly effective way to calculate advantage w/ aerials? There's too many variables to keep track of imo.

 

[DeLux]

Maximum inputs is 2 per frame. 1 analog input and 1 button input.

I read in a post you made after your grab break method came out that you could get the cstick to count for 3 inputs :\

 

[Pikabunz]

Yeah, 3 inputs over 2 frames.

If you hold the control stick in one direction and press the c-stick in another it will read as this:
F1 - 1 analog input + 1 button input
F2 - 1 analog input

 

[Toomai]

Is there any truly effective way to calculate advantage w/ aerials? There's too many variables to keep track of imo.

I don't know about "too many variables" - height above ground on connection is the only one, right? But yeah even that one extra variable makes it a range more than a number.

 

[KayLo!]

Is there any truly effective way to calculate advantage w/ aerials? There's too many variables to keep track of imo.

I ran into that problem too. So I only calculated advantages without landing and for landing hitboxes.

 

[phi1ny3]

So I keep hearing this thing about how Brawl hitstun = Melee hitstun but Melee's actions are sped up with the given techs in the engine, making it ignorable. Is this true?

 

[Yikarur]

lol of course not + the fact that Brawl has hitstun cancel.
Removing hitstun cancel would allow a lot of combos but the hitstun is still not as high as in melee.

 

[Kinzer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3hn6DkMjs8&feature=feedu

Alright, one of you is going to have to come up with something brilliant and extravagant to satisfy my curiosity.

Because AFAIK, Donkey Bong dudn't have no instant kill button from his grab. :/

 

[KayLo!]

For people who don't wanna sit through a minute+ of bull****.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3hn6DkMjs8&t=1m38s

^ Skips right to the part.

No idea what caused it. Looks like stage shenanigans tho.

 

[Yikarur]

perhaps the stages hitbox is right below the ground and DKs grab somehow caused Fox to touch that hitbox area trough the ground. Because the hitbox actually spikes but Fox was grounded he flow up and died.

 

[phi1ny3]

For people who don't wanna sit through a minute+ of bull****.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3hn6DkMjs8&t=1m38s

^ Skips right to the part.

No idea what caused it. Looks like stage shenanigans tho.

I heard about that, there's a part of DK's punch that kills ridiculously low, like I think I saw it somewhere on DK social that someone did a punch that killed lucario vertically @20% on like JAPES lol.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It's just an arbitrary design decision, but some charge moves like DK's Giant Punch and Ike's Eruption are just chosen to be strongest when used JUST before they are fully charged. Why the designers thought that would be cool...dunno. But basically you have to watch out when DK does what's called the 9-wind.

 

[KayLo!]

But Fox died after he got grabbed, not from the punch.

 

[phi1ny3]

Actually that's kind of why it interests me. One time I was watching Crash play friendlies with somebody, on Japes vs Lucario. He hit him with the shoulder, of what we thought was a 3 wind, and it killed Lucario at 22%, straight vertically. Even if Lucario had DI'd well, I don't think he would have lived. And this was on Japes. I've kinda just forgotten about it until recently, assumed it was a glitch or something... Someone should test what shoulder punches do for every wind.

Chaos taught me that at wind either 6&7 or 7&8, there is a massive sweet spot on the shoulder that can kill rediculously early.

Rediculously...

There's the quotes. It's not just 9-wind, there's like a shoulder sweetspot that's super powerful o_O

That's the only thing I can think of that explains it, aside from maybe something on the stage that's overlooked.

That's true Kaylo, it's definitely a grab break animation, but that doesn't make sense :\

 

[A2ZOMG]

perhaps the stages hitbox is right below the ground and DKs grab somehow caused Fox to touch that hitbox area trough the ground. Because the hitbox actually spikes but Fox was grounded he flow up and died.

I watched the video more carefully, and yeah that actually sounds like the best reason. If you pay attention, you can see a green flash that indicates that Fox was spiked.

 

[Kinzer]

Hey I got a question for all the researchers. When you are holding the ledge, what is the input to ledge drop> DJ fair AWAY from the stage. Or just jump off the ledge facing away from the stage. Ive done it with D3 but Ive done it with Sonic but Im not really sure how to do it

Would somebody mind what exactly is the question? If I didn't know better, he's referring to using ledge-dropped DJ'd Forward air that is facing away from the ledge/stage in the same fashion as a B-Reverse. To my knowledge, that isn't possible unless you play a multi-jump character or B-Reverse prior to the aerial. Could somebody confirm/deny this please before I eventually tell the guy this?

I'm just afraid because maybe there's something I'm missing and I don't think people would say things like this unless they found something new or was just a fluke (especially because he mentions Sonic and I don't know of anything like that unless you Spin-Dash jump-cancel the opposite direction :X).

In truth, I probably should've put this in public relations but I wanted to make sure there isn't something I missed somewhere and would like to know/confirm for my own knowledge.

Edit: Damn you Yika!

 

[Yikarur]

I already answered him

 

[Toomai]

I heard that the partner Ice Climber doesn't get 8 invincibility frames on throw. Is this true?

 

[T-block]

Hmm...maybe it's time I actually start doing some to earn my keep back here.

Does anyone have frame maps for Dedede's d-throw CG? Both dash grab and shield grab - I want to do some testing.

 

[Kinzer]

Next up we have (Vertical) Spin Dash Jump (just the state of itself For more information about how to make the transitions into this state, read back).

[Or the rest of the guide/post. Again, the purpose of this post is to gather data, if I didn't properly explain the input, too bad. You should know. This is directed at the veterans.

If you're a newbie don't feel bad. If the guide hasn't already been updated to a certain point, it should better explain each state of Sonic's attacks and how to get into them. I might explain myself (better?) later (in this post or one in the future) or somebody else can probably cover it for me.]

Frames 1-5 are start-up.
You may cancel the (Vertical) Spin Dash Jump state into an aerial on the second frame.
If you did not cancel (V)SDJ into an aerial, the first active active hitbox is on frame 6.
First active hitbox is on frame 6.
The hitbox lasts from frame 6-34

[Actually, I couldn't find out when the hitbox on it disappeared for sure. I managed to get it hit on frame 34 in a couple of cases and not on frame 35 but I'm not sure if that was a matter of me misspacing/mistiming the attack/hurtbox placement or if it's really 6-34. If no one from here can confirm my number, I don't mind looking like a fool in the Research Lab and seeing if one of those guys can help me get the hard numbers.]

(Vertical) Spin Dash Jump may be double-jump canceled (assuming you had one before you made the transition into the state before the VSDJ) on frame 11.

Could anybody here help me make these numbers more concrete?

If you need the OP, it's here. I got the hard stuff so all I need is just somebody to do this little favor for me. Thank you so much.

 

[Sieguest]

Okay, so a few minutes ago I was chatting with some other ICs about grab breaking and something struck me as odd and I wanted to know if anyone had an answer for me.

I read GIMR's thread about how one can't start mashing from a grab until frame 7 of being grabbed and how in his tests, the earliest the grab was broken before starting to mash on frame 8, was frame 20.

Theoretically, the max amount of inputs one can put in one frame into mashing is two (an analog input and a button input) so that totals to 16 frames being taken from the grab duration.

And that's where the problem I have arises.
If you can shave 16 frames off of the grab duration per frame. Then you should be able to mash from the grab in 5.625 frames (which rounds to 6)
And if the test in GIMR's thread didn't have the character breaking until frame 20 then there is an eight frame discrepancy between what happened and what "should happen in theory" (20<>12, the 12 comes from it taking theoretically six frames to mash starting at frame 7)

Can anyone explain if I'm doing something wrong in my math that leaves me with this "hole"?

 

[Toomai]

I thought I read somewhere that button inputs for mashing only register every other frame even if it's a different button. So every 2 frames you'd have 3 inputs, or 1.5/frame.

 

[Sieguest]

I thought I read somewhere that button inputs for mashing only register every other frame even if it's a different button. So every 2 frames you'd have 3 inputs, or 1.5/frame.

Maximum inputs is 2 per frame. 1 analog input and 1 button input.

I based based my info on how the mashing is registered from the quote above. But you know, EA brought up the exact same thing you just posted to me yesterday when I mentioned it on Skype.

Despite all of that though, even when taking your post as correct there is still a discrepancy.
With having three inputs every 2 frames, one should be able to mash in 8 frames from the time mashing inputs are registered. Meaning you would break the grab by frame 14. There's still 6 frames unaccounted for.

 

[Toomai]

Wait, isn't only one input acceted per frame for grab wiggling? So it only counts as one input even if you're giving it both an analog and a button?

If so the math works because then you break out in 11.25 frames (on frame 19.25).

 

[Sieguest]

Not quite, you would actually break on frame 17.25(18), which leaves 2 frames left unaccounted for.

I also don't feel that would remain consistent over the 1 percent differences that cause a change in the inputs needed to mash by one. (I haven't really tested the consistency portion of this as I've not the means to at the moment, but I'll ask someone to do it)

 

[Pikabunz]

The most inputs per frame is 2 and the earliest you can break out is frame 20. (frame 21 if you're Pikachu)

 

[Sieguest]

The most inputs per frame is 2 and the earliest you can break out is frame 20. (frame 21 if you're Pikachu)

But that's my problem. >.< If you can't mash until frame 7 of being grabbed and you can input two inputs a frame, then what accounts for not being able to mash for the other frames before you get to twenty?

At two inputs a frame, that's shaving off 16 frames from the grab duration for every one frame. Assuming you grabbed a character at 0%

90/16=5.625(which will round to 6)frames
6(frames that won't register mashing inputs)+6(frames that count the mashing inputs for the break)=12.
20-12= 8. What's going on with the other 8 frames?

 

[Pikabunz]

You can mash from the first frame of being grabbed.