Pi
Smash Hero
if you do it make it quick
pound5 is coming up, then the spot will be filled
-
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Quest to Become the Best
- Thread starter JesiahTEG
- Start date
pound5 is coming up, then the spot will be filled
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Look deep into their eyes
And SH Fair them
And SH Fair them
JPOBS
Smash Hero
i agree with the stuff about mango wanting to let someone else have the spotlight. i got the same vibe from him
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
My Marth vs my Fox
This is a topic I really want to write about. My Marth is too good when I’m playing my best. It’s the character I started with in 07, and definitely the character I’ve put the most time into. When I’m playing my best, I can control the length of every one of my dash dances, allowing me to move in and out of range with minimal effort, but with maximum deception. I don’t drop my combos or edgeguards either with him. But, this is when I’m playing my best, something that rarely happens with any player. Consistency is what matters most, and when I’m not playing my best with him, it becomes super hard to win. This happens for a few reasons.
1.) Lack of options. With Marth in the neutral position, the only things I really know how to do are DD grab, overshoot an aerial, jump waveland back, run past them and Dtilt. It’s too hard for me to play Marth on reaction. I need to start stuffing approaches with retreating aerials more, but I’m always nervous that if I swing and miss I’ll get punished. With Fox however, I have an endless amount of options, and that’s what really separates the two characters. With Fox I can DD almost as well/efficiently, but I can do more things. Run past shine, at higher percents dash attack. I can face my back to them and slowly close space and if I see them try to approach I can stuff them with Bair because it’s fast and has massive priority. Marth can’t do that with Bair, Marth can’t even risk jumping without being vulnerable. Fox can approach with Nair and drill, both which lead to shine which always leads to something, at the very least a tech chase. If you’re not playing good and you don’t want to risk being up in their face, you can just sit back and laser. He’s too versatile.
2.) Marth is so easy to combo with Fox, it’s like, if Marth messes up once he gets shine or grabbed to 3 uairs and now everything is going to trade even if they tap you, then you’re gonna be off the edge in edgeguard position. My point is that, it’s easier to lose to mid level and even low level players as Marth vs Fox, since if you mess up they can all combo you to death.
Idk, I think I’m going to play more Fox in tournament. Maybe, it depends on how I’m playing haha. My Marth almost lost to a good Fox player named KY, then I did lose vs his Falco on FD. ( I was EXTREMELY nervous though) but then we Fox ditto’d on FD and I won with a 3 stock low percent so it's like, My Fox is good. I don't know who to use haha. I'm gonna be playing more Fox in friendlies that's for sure, but Marth is technically easier, as well as Sheik.
This is a topic I really want to write about. My Marth is too good when I’m playing my best. It’s the character I started with in 07, and definitely the character I’ve put the most time into. When I’m playing my best, I can control the length of every one of my dash dances, allowing me to move in and out of range with minimal effort, but with maximum deception. I don’t drop my combos or edgeguards either with him. But, this is when I’m playing my best, something that rarely happens with any player. Consistency is what matters most, and when I’m not playing my best with him, it becomes super hard to win. This happens for a few reasons.
1.) Lack of options. With Marth in the neutral position, the only things I really know how to do are DD grab, overshoot an aerial, jump waveland back, run past them and Dtilt. It’s too hard for me to play Marth on reaction. I need to start stuffing approaches with retreating aerials more, but I’m always nervous that if I swing and miss I’ll get punished. With Fox however, I have an endless amount of options, and that’s what really separates the two characters. With Fox I can DD almost as well/efficiently, but I can do more things. Run past shine, at higher percents dash attack. I can face my back to them and slowly close space and if I see them try to approach I can stuff them with Bair because it’s fast and has massive priority. Marth can’t do that with Bair, Marth can’t even risk jumping without being vulnerable. Fox can approach with Nair and drill, both which lead to shine which always leads to something, at the very least a tech chase. If you’re not playing good and you don’t want to risk being up in their face, you can just sit back and laser. He’s too versatile.
2.) Marth is so easy to combo with Fox, it’s like, if Marth messes up once he gets shine or grabbed to 3 uairs and now everything is going to trade even if they tap you, then you’re gonna be off the edge in edgeguard position. My point is that, it’s easier to lose to mid level and even low level players as Marth vs Fox, since if you mess up they can all combo you to death.
Idk, I think I’m going to play more Fox in tournament. Maybe, it depends on how I’m playing haha. My Marth almost lost to a good Fox player named KY, then I did lose vs his Falco on FD. ( I was EXTREMELY nervous though) but then we Fox ditto’d on FD and I won with a 3 stock low percent so it's like, My Fox is good. I don't know who to use haha. I'm gonna be playing more Fox in friendlies that's for sure, but Marth is technically easier, as well as Sheik.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Jman's Performance
Jmannnnn!! Jman's an awesome player and he placed really well this tournament. However, he didn't play well. That's probably the worst I've seen him play actually. He got tons of grabs off on PeePee, and just didn't do anything about it. PeePee would DI behind him, and Jman would just drop the combo. Here's what's awesome about him playing bad though:
He still placed well, and I could see how he did it. If Jman was on he might have ran through everybody, but who knows. However though, he covered up his poor technical play with smart decisions. He was very careful vs Eggm, choosing Usmash many times over more technical options.
Vs Vanz he camped very intelligently, something I need to learn how to do. I don't want to make that my main playstyle, but it's a good backup plan in case I am playing bad. Jman just does what it takes to win, and that's something I don't really do. I always want to play how I want to play, instead of realizing that I need to win in order to advance.
An example of this was vs this SICK Samus player that beat me in tournament named Darrell. He was fresh as ****, and a very smart player. But, I kept rushing him with Sheik. Why didn't I just needle camp him and make him come to me and stuff his approaches? It's like, I'm in a tournament, forget your pride and what you want to do to win. I'm all about "outsmarting" my opponents, but I'm not at the level where I can consistently do that. Would it be better to continue to lose some tournament matches in an effort to learn how to outsmart people? Or would it be better to come up with some solid strategies to get me through the first few rounds, and then save the outsmarting for the later rounds? Mental stamina is important too, after all. Hmmmm...
Jmannnnn!! Jman's an awesome player and he placed really well this tournament. However, he didn't play well. That's probably the worst I've seen him play actually. He got tons of grabs off on PeePee, and just didn't do anything about it. PeePee would DI behind him, and Jman would just drop the combo. Here's what's awesome about him playing bad though:
He still placed well, and I could see how he did it. If Jman was on he might have ran through everybody, but who knows. However though, he covered up his poor technical play with smart decisions. He was very careful vs Eggm, choosing Usmash many times over more technical options.
Vs Vanz he camped very intelligently, something I need to learn how to do. I don't want to make that my main playstyle, but it's a good backup plan in case I am playing bad. Jman just does what it takes to win, and that's something I don't really do. I always want to play how I want to play, instead of realizing that I need to win in order to advance.
An example of this was vs this SICK Samus player that beat me in tournament named Darrell. He was fresh as ****, and a very smart player. But, I kept rushing him with Sheik. Why didn't I just needle camp him and make him come to me and stuff his approaches? It's like, I'm in a tournament, forget your pride and what you want to do to win. I'm all about "outsmarting" my opponents, but I'm not at the level where I can consistently do that. Would it be better to continue to lose some tournament matches in an effort to learn how to outsmart people? Or would it be better to come up with some solid strategies to get me through the first few rounds, and then save the outsmarting for the later rounds? Mental stamina is important too, after all. Hmmmm...
Rykard
Smash Ace
so i've been reading a lot of this and i've got to say that this is a lot of fun to see how someone thinks about this game. I go to Ithaca College which is apparently right near a bunch of tournaments that you have shown up at in Syracuse but i have never had the chance to actually go to them and play but i hope i can meet you at some point for some friendlies or something. I need A TON of practice before i can consider myself much of anything as a player though
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Yeah dude, Ithaca is not far. There's a tourney somewhere upstate in early december. check tournament listings dude, and be there 
We'll play
We'll play
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
PeePee's Rise to the Top
Well he did it, he managed to win a national. Congrats PeePee, hopefully many more to come.
Here is a guy that is super inspirational to me, not only because he's a great player...not only because he rose to the top rather quickly, and not only because he will help anyone who asks. What really makes PeePee awesome is that no matter how good he gets, he'll always remain the same: A cool guy with a great attitude. I became friends after playing with him all night at ROM 2, and we talk on AIM pretty consistently I'd say...And no matter how many more people IM him asking for advice and stuff, he always has time for everyone...Even after he won ROM3 I said to him, "I'll talk to you on AIM dude, I'm outta here...Don't pretend like you won't be on AIM, you're on that **** 24/7." And he said, "Hey, you know me man, AIM and Melee, you know where to find me."
That's something that I'm working towards right now, never changing who I am regardless of success.
At any rate, let's admit it...PeePee really blew us away. He's too smart now, he's too deadly. His combos are absolutely brutal, combining speed and precision with extreme efficiency. In the neutral position, his laser game is just pure intelligence. He'll let you move once in a while, unlike Shiz and Lambchops. But when you do have time to move, you're going against one of the smartest, most clever minds Melee has ever seen, so good luck. Personally, I'd rather be locked down by lasers and play that game as opposed to trying to figure out what PeePee's going to do next.
His tech skill is unbelievable at this point. If you get hit with an attack by him, he WILL follow it up, due to perfect positioning on his Dairs and shines, and acting on the first frame possible, always.
What I've described above also left me and apparently M2K with the same syndrome: Getting nervous whenever you do have an opportunity to do anything.
This sucks, and mainly happens with me vs Falco, but with PeePee because you know you're not going to get many chances to do anything, it happens with him more: You get nervous and don't punish as well as you possibly can. All you're thinking about when you get a hit in is, "I only have one chance, don't mess it up." And because you're thinking of that, you mess it up.
That's an awesome feeling to instill in people: Giving them so little opportunity that when they do have it, they mess up...Not to mention, PeePee makes incredibly smart recovery decisions and defensive options, so in addition to rarely ever hitting him, and in addition to messing up when you do, you now have to have a level of intelligence that's equal to PeePee's defensive intelligence. That's gonna be hard to do.
I'm excited to see where he goes. He's not stopping here, and as a player who has the same goal as him, I feel priveleged to be his friend and get to witness him make his impact in history of Melee.
The day I play him in tournament... I mean seriously play him, because he'd stomp me right now. The day I'm a threat to him, I feel I'm going to be having some mental blocks, just due to how much he's taught me and how much we talk about Melee.
At any rate, Kevin, you're the man. Keep pushing the game to its limits.
I also wanna talk about KirbyKaze (David I love you and you ****) but I have to get to work now
Well he did it, he managed to win a national. Congrats PeePee, hopefully many more to come.
Here is a guy that is super inspirational to me, not only because he's a great player...not only because he rose to the top rather quickly, and not only because he will help anyone who asks. What really makes PeePee awesome is that no matter how good he gets, he'll always remain the same: A cool guy with a great attitude. I became friends after playing with him all night at ROM 2, and we talk on AIM pretty consistently I'd say...And no matter how many more people IM him asking for advice and stuff, he always has time for everyone...Even after he won ROM3 I said to him, "I'll talk to you on AIM dude, I'm outta here...Don't pretend like you won't be on AIM, you're on that **** 24/7." And he said, "Hey, you know me man, AIM and Melee, you know where to find me."
That's something that I'm working towards right now, never changing who I am regardless of success.
At any rate, let's admit it...PeePee really blew us away. He's too smart now, he's too deadly. His combos are absolutely brutal, combining speed and precision with extreme efficiency. In the neutral position, his laser game is just pure intelligence. He'll let you move once in a while, unlike Shiz and Lambchops. But when you do have time to move, you're going against one of the smartest, most clever minds Melee has ever seen, so good luck. Personally, I'd rather be locked down by lasers and play that game as opposed to trying to figure out what PeePee's going to do next.
His tech skill is unbelievable at this point. If you get hit with an attack by him, he WILL follow it up, due to perfect positioning on his Dairs and shines, and acting on the first frame possible, always.
What I've described above also left me and apparently M2K with the same syndrome: Getting nervous whenever you do have an opportunity to do anything.
This sucks, and mainly happens with me vs Falco, but with PeePee because you know you're not going to get many chances to do anything, it happens with him more: You get nervous and don't punish as well as you possibly can. All you're thinking about when you get a hit in is, "I only have one chance, don't mess it up." And because you're thinking of that, you mess it up.
That's an awesome feeling to instill in people: Giving them so little opportunity that when they do have it, they mess up...Not to mention, PeePee makes incredibly smart recovery decisions and defensive options, so in addition to rarely ever hitting him, and in addition to messing up when you do, you now have to have a level of intelligence that's equal to PeePee's defensive intelligence. That's gonna be hard to do.
I'm excited to see where he goes. He's not stopping here, and as a player who has the same goal as him, I feel priveleged to be his friend and get to witness him make his impact in history of Melee.
The day I play him in tournament... I mean seriously play him, because he'd stomp me right now. The day I'm a threat to him, I feel I'm going to be having some mental blocks, just due to how much he's taught me and how much we talk about Melee.
At any rate, Kevin, you're the man. Keep pushing the game to its limits.
I also wanna talk about KirbyKaze (David I love you and you ****) but I have to get to work now
Dawwww <3333333
Don't even know what to say lol. XD
Don't even know what to say lol. XD
Divinokage
Smash Legend
You say I'm ****ing awesome. lol.
Van.
Smash Ace
Jesiah, do you main fox?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
lol grab / shine --> grab doesn't autocombo to three uairs get outta here
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Well if you suck like me then it does :-P And YOU get outta here punk (jk stay)
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Played for so long and I just CANNOT get warmed up...Soooooo frustrating, ugh. Haha, w/e, I guess I'll just take a quick break
does this ever happen to anyone
does this ever happen to anyone
Nø Ca$h
Smash Champion
YES at rom i felt like i wasnt warmed up the whole time. thats what happens w/o food or sleep lol
ranmaru
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
- Messages
- 13,297
- Switch FC
- SW-0654 7794 0698
I always feel warmed up. Like after a million years of not playing smash I'd probably have improved somehow and win. lol
I mean... I don't know. I don't ever feel the need to "warm up"
But yeah at Rom3, I was scrambling to get my entry fee (acrosssss the street at staples, got two tic tacs IN A ROW to get $80 cash back lol)
ran, payed entry fee... and... found out I was in mango's and lucky's pool. xDDD I was hyped... I didn't know what to do against Mango's falco (or lucky's fox) but I tried my best.
Wish I coulda played you Jesiah, cuz I know you are beast at this game and I'd like to play ya next time (the trains were a pain to get to rom, not to mention SUPER COLD = my worst enemy (cuz I have asthma)
I mean... I don't know. I don't ever feel the need to "warm up"
But yeah at Rom3, I was scrambling to get my entry fee (acrosssss the street at staples, got two tic tacs IN A ROW to get $80 cash back lol)
ran, payed entry fee... and... found out I was in mango's and lucky's pool. xDDD I was hyped... I didn't know what to do against Mango's falco (or lucky's fox) but I tried my best.
Wish I coulda played you Jesiah, cuz I know you are beast at this game and I'd like to play ya next time (the trains were a pain to get to rom, not to mention SUPER COLD = my worst enemy (cuz I have asthma)
SnowMan
Smash Journeyman
I noticed that last night.
I haven't been feeling great playing lately, everything is so sloppy and I keep tripping over myself. Maybe it's that week long break I took.
Oh well.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Ok haha, good to know other people have a hard time warming up as well, or even just playing good in general. It's starting to happen to me MUCH less though so I'm grateful for that.
My Match vs Swiftbass
Let me start by saying this: Swiftbass is no joke. That man is good, really good. In pools vs. him, technically speaking I was playing well, which is awesome. I played very patient against him, always keeping my distance and using quick, deceptive dash dances to land my grabs on him. I didn't really mess up any edgeguards, and overall I played solid.
However, I still lost both matches 1 stock. Swift is definitely better than me at this point. His combos were amazing, he always kept pressure on me when he had it, and most of all he remained calm at the end of both matches when we were 1 stock low percent, whereas I started to feel a little rushed I think. I spoke with him after and he gave me some compliments and we talked. He's an extremely good sport and a very courteous player.
I had to play him again first round in Bracket, and he messed me up pretty hard. Unfortunately I got kinda scraped, but the good news is that I understand why.
First off Swift started going for Shinespikes. The first one caught me off guard but the second one didn't. I tried to Up B early, knowing he was coming down for a shinespike, but as my Up B started he shined it's initial startup, so I heard the noise come out but it got stuffed. I guess to beat that I have to Up B even earlier? No one ever goes for Shinespikes vs me and the people that do suck at it, so they stop trying. Unknown got me like that like 4 times in pools too.
At any rate, there was also 2 more huge factors that caused me to get owned. The first was Swiftbass would overshoot an aerial or shine as I attempted to DD grab him. This is where I'm pretty disappointed in myself.
After he got me with it the first time, I knew he was capable of it and it consciously clicked in my head, "Watch out not to spam DD and watch out for the overshot aerials/shines." Ok, so I know it's coming. Good to go right? Nope. He ***** me with it for the rest of the set, a whole 2 matches.
Why the **** didn't I just grab him as he approached? Why didn't I do a retreating nair or fair? I DON'T KNOW. I can only describe how I felt, and I felt rushed. I HATE feeling rushed, like I have to do something. I feel like Fox is so fast, I don't have time to think. If he's dashdancing in my face and I predict he's going to overshoot an aerial so I grab early, what if he just keeps DD'ing? I get punished for it.
My mind was just kinda blank, and I just kept hoping for the best. I should have backed off and started trying to remain calm. Everytime he approached I just tried to DD grab, and it never worked. That's the stuff that gets to me emotionally...When I let myself down. To be completely honest, I don't think I would have won even if I didn't get ***** by this one strategy. I think he would have adapted and beaten me still. But, I just feel disappointed in myself for now putting up as good of a match as I should have.
I suppose the smart thing to do would be let go of the negative feelings, and learn from it.
Here's something interesting to note as well...When I'm in beast mode (Everyone has a very rare beast mode) that stuff doesn't happen. The way I move in the neutral position, mainly my dashdancing, doesn't reveal what I'm going to do, and I'm subconsciously SUPER aware of my spacing, so I always choose the right option to approach/stuff approaches. I have to learn how to tap into that aspect of my game without being in beast mode.
Lastly, I could have taken the first life by edgehogging, but I got nervous and I wasn't sure if he was going to land on the stage or not, so I went for a dair and got hit by Foxfire.
First of all I think I should have just rolled. Second of all, this could have been completely prevented by doing this...As he was foxfiring, when I noticed an edgehog might not have done it, I should have let go of the ledge and grabbed again, so I would be invincible as I dair'd him. That's something I do like, 100 times a day vs people/computers, but once again, tournament settings mess with my head.
It's a sign of inexperience and immaturity as a player, and I want to rid myself of those traits as soon as possible.
In conclusion, Swiftbass most definitely outplayed me, but I'm excited to play him again. I think he represents the top level of a certain "tier" of players that I'm striving to surpass. Great games man, great attitude and I learned a lot from playing you. I'm super impressed and I can't wait to play you again. Go to Mass Madness in January please.
My Match vs Swiftbass
Let me start by saying this: Swiftbass is no joke. That man is good, really good. In pools vs. him, technically speaking I was playing well, which is awesome. I played very patient against him, always keeping my distance and using quick, deceptive dash dances to land my grabs on him. I didn't really mess up any edgeguards, and overall I played solid.
However, I still lost both matches 1 stock. Swift is definitely better than me at this point. His combos were amazing, he always kept pressure on me when he had it, and most of all he remained calm at the end of both matches when we were 1 stock low percent, whereas I started to feel a little rushed I think. I spoke with him after and he gave me some compliments and we talked. He's an extremely good sport and a very courteous player.
I had to play him again first round in Bracket, and he messed me up pretty hard. Unfortunately I got kinda scraped, but the good news is that I understand why.
First off Swift started going for Shinespikes. The first one caught me off guard but the second one didn't. I tried to Up B early, knowing he was coming down for a shinespike, but as my Up B started he shined it's initial startup, so I heard the noise come out but it got stuffed. I guess to beat that I have to Up B even earlier? No one ever goes for Shinespikes vs me and the people that do suck at it, so they stop trying. Unknown got me like that like 4 times in pools too.
At any rate, there was also 2 more huge factors that caused me to get owned. The first was Swiftbass would overshoot an aerial or shine as I attempted to DD grab him. This is where I'm pretty disappointed in myself.
After he got me with it the first time, I knew he was capable of it and it consciously clicked in my head, "Watch out not to spam DD and watch out for the overshot aerials/shines." Ok, so I know it's coming. Good to go right? Nope. He ***** me with it for the rest of the set, a whole 2 matches.
Why the **** didn't I just grab him as he approached? Why didn't I do a retreating nair or fair? I DON'T KNOW. I can only describe how I felt, and I felt rushed. I HATE feeling rushed, like I have to do something. I feel like Fox is so fast, I don't have time to think. If he's dashdancing in my face and I predict he's going to overshoot an aerial so I grab early, what if he just keeps DD'ing? I get punished for it.
My mind was just kinda blank, and I just kept hoping for the best. I should have backed off and started trying to remain calm. Everytime he approached I just tried to DD grab, and it never worked. That's the stuff that gets to me emotionally...When I let myself down. To be completely honest, I don't think I would have won even if I didn't get ***** by this one strategy. I think he would have adapted and beaten me still. But, I just feel disappointed in myself for now putting up as good of a match as I should have.
I suppose the smart thing to do would be let go of the negative feelings, and learn from it.
Here's something interesting to note as well...When I'm in beast mode (Everyone has a very rare beast mode) that stuff doesn't happen. The way I move in the neutral position, mainly my dashdancing, doesn't reveal what I'm going to do, and I'm subconsciously SUPER aware of my spacing, so I always choose the right option to approach/stuff approaches. I have to learn how to tap into that aspect of my game without being in beast mode.
Lastly, I could have taken the first life by edgehogging, but I got nervous and I wasn't sure if he was going to land on the stage or not, so I went for a dair and got hit by Foxfire.
First of all I think I should have just rolled. Second of all, this could have been completely prevented by doing this...As he was foxfiring, when I noticed an edgehog might not have done it, I should have let go of the ledge and grabbed again, so I would be invincible as I dair'd him. That's something I do like, 100 times a day vs people/computers, but once again, tournament settings mess with my head.
It's a sign of inexperience and immaturity as a player, and I want to rid myself of those traits as soon as possible.
In conclusion, Swiftbass most definitely outplayed me, but I'm excited to play him again. I think he represents the top level of a certain "tier" of players that I'm striving to surpass. Great games man, great attitude and I learned a lot from playing you. I'm super impressed and I can't wait to play you again.
Go to Mass Madness in January please.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Sorry for the double post, just wanna say something real quick.
I had a goal to get top 15 at ROM which I didn't accomplish. That's ok though, because after playing so many people/making it into bracket, I can analyze where I stand as a player more clearly.
Looking at the results, I guess I'm satisfied with 25th. (Which I actually don't know how that happened I only won 1 match.) But, I think I could have peaked at 13th place. I don't think even at my best I could have gone higher. Maybe. Possibly, but at this point it's not even worth mentioning considering how rare someone plays their best. I think if I was a little bit more collected and on, I could have gotten 13th. I'd be much happier with 17th, but I guess 25 is ok for now.
What's good about this though is that I can watch vids of all the players above me, see what I'm missing that they're doing and I'm not, and aim to place above them next time. Smash is awesome.
I had a goal to get top 15 at ROM which I didn't accomplish. That's ok though, because after playing so many people/making it into bracket, I can analyze where I stand as a player more clearly.
Looking at the results, I guess I'm satisfied with 25th. (Which I actually don't know how that happened I only won 1 match.) But, I think I could have peaked at 13th place. I don't think even at my best I could have gone higher. Maybe. Possibly, but at this point it's not even worth mentioning considering how rare someone plays their best. I think if I was a little bit more collected and on, I could have gotten 13th. I'd be much happier with 17th, but I guess 25 is ok for now.
What's good about this though is that I can watch vids of all the players above me, see what I'm missing that they're doing and I'm not, and aim to place above them next time. Smash is awesome.
I don't really know if it makes a difference but UB is up and running now.
I have no issue with you having this here just saying if thats what you originally intended this for *shrugs*
I have no issue with you having this here just saying if thats what you originally intended this for *shrugs*
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Interesting post about SwiftBass.
I, too, find it frustrating when Foxes go all the way down to shine spike me as Marth. It's a very high-risk, high-reward thing that I don't like. But usually it work because it's essentially a mindgame.
One of the guys I play with a lot likes to go for those risky shine spikes. After the scenario happens enough times, it really just becomes a guessing game. But there are a couple tools at your disposal.
Remember that you don't always have to double jump before you up-b. Oftentimes, by double jumping, you end up throwing yourself directly into the shine, and your up-b will not have time to come out if you try to do the jump and up-b as separate actions. As soon as you're out of hitstun, you can up-b, which will hit Fox if he jumps out for you immediately.
Foxes sometimes go for the read of following you down to the base of the up-b, which works if you try to sweetspot the edge. It's important that you don't always do the same thing. Make use of the options to counter, double jump back with a fair rather than forward, and double jump -> airdodge.
These days spacies are pretty preemptive with their approaches. They won't simply attack where you are but they'll overshoot aerials/dash attacks to compensate for your dash dancing. There are two ways to strictly counter this without the need even to shield or do an aerial.
Like you said, you can run up and grab them as they run toward you. But, of course, the issue is that you don't know when they'll attack. One way you can solve this problem is by dash dancing as if you aren't prepared for an overshot aerial/dash attack. It's important that you get them in the "mode" of thought that tells them "he's going to move away from me when I attack." You can usually trigger people to believe this by simply dash dancing like you normally would. Then you can REACT to them running at you with a grab. After all, if they expect you to dash away when they approach, they're going to try to punish that specific defense. To them, there is no chance of you veering from that strategy. I hope this makes sense.
Also, if you're too afraid to commit to a grab since it would be easy to punish if you guess wrong, you can instead counter their overshooting by dash dancing through them as they approach you. Suppose Fox overshoots a nair at you. Instead of trying to run back, you run under the nair and grab him as he land behind you. It's less risky because you have time to confirm what Fox does, as opposed to running forward and grabbing, which is just a read.
I, too, find it frustrating when Foxes go all the way down to shine spike me as Marth. It's a very high-risk, high-reward thing that I don't like. But usually it work because it's essentially a mindgame.
One of the guys I play with a lot likes to go for those risky shine spikes. After the scenario happens enough times, it really just becomes a guessing game. But there are a couple tools at your disposal.
Remember that you don't always have to double jump before you up-b. Oftentimes, by double jumping, you end up throwing yourself directly into the shine, and your up-b will not have time to come out if you try to do the jump and up-b as separate actions. As soon as you're out of hitstun, you can up-b, which will hit Fox if he jumps out for you immediately.
Foxes sometimes go for the read of following you down to the base of the up-b, which works if you try to sweetspot the edge. It's important that you don't always do the same thing. Make use of the options to counter, double jump back with a fair rather than forward, and double jump -> airdodge.
These days spacies are pretty preemptive with their approaches. They won't simply attack where you are but they'll overshoot aerials/dash attacks to compensate for your dash dancing. There are two ways to strictly counter this without the need even to shield or do an aerial.
Like you said, you can run up and grab them as they run toward you. But, of course, the issue is that you don't know when they'll attack. One way you can solve this problem is by dash dancing as if you aren't prepared for an overshot aerial/dash attack. It's important that you get them in the "mode" of thought that tells them "he's going to move away from me when I attack." You can usually trigger people to believe this by simply dash dancing like you normally would. Then you can REACT to them running at you with a grab. After all, if they expect you to dash away when they approach, they're going to try to punish that specific defense. To them, there is no chance of you veering from that strategy. I hope this makes sense.
Also, if you're too afraid to commit to a grab since it would be easy to punish if you guess wrong, you can instead counter their overshooting by dash dancing through them as they approach you. Suppose Fox overshoots a nair at you. Instead of trying to run back, you run under the nair and grab him as he land behind you. It's less risky because you have time to confirm what Fox does, as opposed to running forward and grabbing, which is just a read.
Niko45
Smash Master
As far as getting shine spiked goes I think getting shine spiked/edgeguarded fully by fox, especially at lower %, is a product of imperfect DI, or just a flat out good guess by fox. If he timed your up B with a shine where it was obvious that you needed to up B when you did, then either you were at very high % or probably didn't DI as well as you could have initially to make sure you had the best recovery options (DJ, side B's, best angle). Being forced to use any of those options due to a missed DI makes Marth's recovery waaaaay more linear. Either that, or, like I said, he just took a good guess at when you were actually going to up B. More likely tho its better to analyze your entire recovery - what % you were at, how he knocked you off initially, what options you had left/should have had left, etc.
As far as like fox running up and shining your DD or aerialing past your DD: Yea you can typically react to an approach like that with just turning around and grabbing but you might also be just giving him too much breathing room from neutral position. If you're DDing too far away and it doesn't put any pressure on him he has time to measure those types of approaches. Either that, or you were never approaching, which would mean even if your DD would appear to be pressuring him if you haven't established that you WILL sometimes approach him he feels no need to do anything hasty and calculates his own approach when he's good and ready. If it was a situation where you were using an aerial into a quick dash away and he was timing approaches for the back of your dash that way, you can always dash AT him after the aerial and you'll just sneak right under him/past him and can cut back for the grab as he whiffs his aerial badly. I wasn't there, but it kind of sounds like you might not have been in control of the "DD pressure" game that marth and fox play against each other. The best thing to focus on might be not letting fox dictate the pace of the match too much.
As far as like fox running up and shining your DD or aerialing past your DD: Yea you can typically react to an approach like that with just turning around and grabbing but you might also be just giving him too much breathing room from neutral position. If you're DDing too far away and it doesn't put any pressure on him he has time to measure those types of approaches. Either that, or you were never approaching, which would mean even if your DD would appear to be pressuring him if you haven't established that you WILL sometimes approach him he feels no need to do anything hasty and calculates his own approach when he's good and ready. If it was a situation where you were using an aerial into a quick dash away and he was timing approaches for the back of your dash that way, you can always dash AT him after the aerial and you'll just sneak right under him/past him and can cut back for the grab as he whiffs his aerial badly. I wasn't there, but it kind of sounds like you might not have been in control of the "DD pressure" game that marth and fox play against each other. The best thing to focus on might be not letting fox dictate the pace of the match too much.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Foy's Downfall
Foy, my roommate, thought that because he was beating Vicious in Falcon dittos that he could beat me when I'm absolutely wasted and stoned. So, I had to prove him wrong. He was very confident. It was best of 5, I won the first match 3 stock at 19%. Then the second match I won at 3 stock with about 25%. Then the last match I 4 stocked him.
And, I'm so gone I don't even know what planet I'm on...I do know one thing though...Falcon can go ridiculously far off the stage and be completely fine. ******** LMAO
Foy, my roommate, thought that because he was beating Vicious in Falcon dittos that he could beat me when I'm absolutely wasted and stoned. So, I had to prove him wrong. He was very confident. It was best of 5, I won the first match 3 stock at 19%. Then the second match I won at 3 stock with about 25%. Then the last match I 4 stocked him.
And, I'm so gone I don't even know what planet I'm on...I do know one thing though...Falcon can go ridiculously far off the stage and be completely fine. ******** LMAO
M@1funk$hun
Smash Ace
Jesiah, I honestly hope you become the best. you seem like the kind of guy that deserves it
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Thanks man.
So I pretty much played from 11 AM today until now, with two taco bell breaks in between.
I'm focusing on a few things very heavily, things that I hope will push me to the next level in terms of skill.
1. Playing in Close Quarters- This is the biggest thing I've been focusing on today, is playing as close to my opponent as possible. Very tight spacing, but where neither of us can hit each other. It's the closest I can be because the closer you are, the more your opponent feels pressured. It's a form of pressure in itself, playing that close, not to mention, you can really control someone this way the most. At least, that's my belief. The more space you give them, the more time they have to think and execute.
By playing so close to them, they're always at risk of getting hit, so they're either going to do something defensive like roll, dodge, or shield, or they're going to try to attack. I want to be able to cover all of these options. I'm close, but when they roll they get away sometimes. My timing's not good enough.
I think I need to choose my attacks better at certain percents to punish rolls. Like, if I'm just dashdancing in front of their shield, if they roll behind me chances are I'm gonna dair, nair, or grab (with Falco) since those are things I can do out of a dash dance...
But, what if I just dash dance a few times, then WD backwards so when they roll, I put them right into Utilt range. It's more reward than the others at every percent except the lowest. But, to do that above example, I have to be more sure they're going to roll than normal. If they decide to just stay in shield and I WD back, I give them more room to breathe and then they can shoot a laser and the momentum can change at that point.
So many different things to try and cover Out of Shield options.
My shield pressure with Falco has gotten very creative. Not PP level creative, but it's more freeflowing, allowing me to react to different things easier. Lots of empty short hops in front of their shield, mixed in with real attacks in case they try and attack oos.
I guess the main struggle to overcome when playing as close as possible to my opponent, is actually reacting to what they do. If I'm waiting for them to jump OOS and they WD back, it takes me longer to react. Actually, that's a pretty good little observation I've made about reacting/predicting.
To punish something you've baited, you need to either react, or predict. You have to use your mental "focus" to do this. Another word for focus could be attention. We only have so much conscious attention we can use at one time, so for the sake of this explanation, let's say focus is measured out of 100.
As Falco, I do Nair->Shine->Retreating Nair against their shield and then I go into a Dash Dance. Some of my attention is directed towards covering options, probably about 70% of my attention. If they roll or try and attack OOS or Shieldgrab I can punish. The other 30% is going towards prediction, and I'm waiting for them to jump out of shield as well, so I can Bair.
Only that little is going towards the Jump OOS option because that's something I have to predict, and I can't react to as well as the other two. Then I have to rely on execution and timing to actually punish what they do.
These percents are just a philosophical estimate btw. Who knows what they actually are. I think though, that with more information about your opponent, the more attention you can direct to trying and predict them.
Prediction yields higher rewards, because you can hit them with whatever you want, which matters a lot in this game. If you know they're going to roll at low percents, you have more time to be precise and plan a Dair, which will lead to shine into a combo. If you're dash dancing to cover multiple options though, it's going to take you longer to react, and the longer it takes to react the more you're forced to use moves that are faster and generally weaker. (Falco's dash attack is a good example) and at low percents, that's going to get CC punished.
When I watch Mango, I can tell he's not consciously thinking about all of this. He may have at some point, in fact maybe every top Falco has gotten this deep into thought about this situation. Maybe that's how they've all come to such radically different styles as well. I think about shield pressure and this is how my mind perceives it. Someone else though might see it completely differently. Those thoughts/experiences/observations manifest in one's playstyle.
Btw, my main goal is to maximize the amount of prediction I use. The more I can hit someone with anything I want, the better and more effective the pressure becomes. I'm going to **** up a lot and predict wrong a lot. I'm going to be spending a lot of hours trying to maximize my vs shield/pressure game and get frustrated along the way. But, it's something I have to go through to maximize the rewards.
Btw, I do this for Marth too, but I don't want to talk about my Marth strats, so I used Falco because I do the same thing with him and the same concepts still apply.
So I pretty much played from 11 AM today until now, with two taco bell breaks in between.
I'm focusing on a few things very heavily, things that I hope will push me to the next level in terms of skill.
1. Playing in Close Quarters- This is the biggest thing I've been focusing on today, is playing as close to my opponent as possible. Very tight spacing, but where neither of us can hit each other. It's the closest I can be because the closer you are, the more your opponent feels pressured. It's a form of pressure in itself, playing that close, not to mention, you can really control someone this way the most. At least, that's my belief. The more space you give them, the more time they have to think and execute.
By playing so close to them, they're always at risk of getting hit, so they're either going to do something defensive like roll, dodge, or shield, or they're going to try to attack. I want to be able to cover all of these options. I'm close, but when they roll they get away sometimes. My timing's not good enough.
I think I need to choose my attacks better at certain percents to punish rolls. Like, if I'm just dashdancing in front of their shield, if they roll behind me chances are I'm gonna dair, nair, or grab (with Falco) since those are things I can do out of a dash dance...
But, what if I just dash dance a few times, then WD backwards so when they roll, I put them right into Utilt range. It's more reward than the others at every percent except the lowest. But, to do that above example, I have to be more sure they're going to roll than normal. If they decide to just stay in shield and I WD back, I give them more room to breathe and then they can shoot a laser and the momentum can change at that point.
So many different things to try and cover Out of Shield options.
My shield pressure with Falco has gotten very creative. Not PP level creative, but it's more freeflowing, allowing me to react to different things easier. Lots of empty short hops in front of their shield, mixed in with real attacks in case they try and attack oos.
I guess the main struggle to overcome when playing as close as possible to my opponent, is actually reacting to what they do. If I'm waiting for them to jump OOS and they WD back, it takes me longer to react. Actually, that's a pretty good little observation I've made about reacting/predicting.
To punish something you've baited, you need to either react, or predict. You have to use your mental "focus" to do this. Another word for focus could be attention. We only have so much conscious attention we can use at one time, so for the sake of this explanation, let's say focus is measured out of 100.
As Falco, I do Nair->Shine->Retreating Nair against their shield and then I go into a Dash Dance. Some of my attention is directed towards covering options, probably about 70% of my attention. If they roll or try and attack OOS or Shieldgrab I can punish. The other 30% is going towards prediction, and I'm waiting for them to jump out of shield as well, so I can Bair.
Only that little is going towards the Jump OOS option because that's something I have to predict, and I can't react to as well as the other two. Then I have to rely on execution and timing to actually punish what they do.
These percents are just a philosophical estimate btw. Who knows what they actually are. I think though, that with more information about your opponent, the more attention you can direct to trying and predict them.
Prediction yields higher rewards, because you can hit them with whatever you want, which matters a lot in this game. If you know they're going to roll at low percents, you have more time to be precise and plan a Dair, which will lead to shine into a combo. If you're dash dancing to cover multiple options though, it's going to take you longer to react, and the longer it takes to react the more you're forced to use moves that are faster and generally weaker. (Falco's dash attack is a good example) and at low percents, that's going to get CC punished.
When I watch Mango, I can tell he's not consciously thinking about all of this. He may have at some point, in fact maybe every top Falco has gotten this deep into thought about this situation. Maybe that's how they've all come to such radically different styles as well. I think about shield pressure and this is how my mind perceives it. Someone else though might see it completely differently. Those thoughts/experiences/observations manifest in one's playstyle.
Btw, my main goal is to maximize the amount of prediction I use. The more I can hit someone with anything I want, the better and more effective the pressure becomes. I'm going to **** up a lot and predict wrong a lot. I'm going to be spending a lot of hours trying to maximize my vs shield/pressure game and get frustrated along the way. But, it's something I have to go through to maximize the rewards.
Btw, I do this for Marth too, but I don't want to talk about my Marth strats, so I used Falco because I do the same thing with him and the same concepts still apply.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
The #2 thing I was working on today that I always knew I needed to master, but it didn't kick in just how much a difference it made until ROM3, is being able to switch from one situation to another instantly on reaction, in order to maximize effectiveness.
If I throw someone onto a platform as Sheik, say I Uthrow Fox and I'm kinda predicting he's going to tech in place, which would be the right side of the platform, but he rolls to the left...And I was planning on using a dair to hit him...I'm gonna jump up and get ready to dair, but when I see him roll to the left, if I follow through with the dair, I'm gonna miss and he's gonna get away, a good thing to do would be waveland into a grab, or waveland to right in front of his shield into jab range.
Jab him once, he falls off the platform, I follow him with fair. That's safe because if he has enough time to get his shield up when he lands, I'm in good pressure range...If he rolls behind me I can punish.
Forget about that last paragraph, that's just the follow up.
But the point is, if you can't connect a combo, don't let your instinct and muscle memory betray you and try to connect it. Consciously keep the spacing tight, recognize the situation (are they shielding when I thought this hit was going to connect? Am I planning on tech chasing with dash atack as Sheik, but since he's rolling away I'm not gonna have enough time to get there, so should I cancel my dash with a shield and wait for him to dodge or shield?) and switch to whatever is the most effective thing to do at the moment. That's something else I'm working on.
Also, just to give one last example of this...probably the most impressive, or one of the most impressive is a little thing Mango does as Falco/Fox.
He will short hop towards you, or fall down from a platform or w/e. You expect an attack to hit the shield and then a shine, because that's basic shield pressure. If he sees your shielding, while he's coming towards you from the SH, which is so little time to do this, he can react and instead of throwing out the aerial, he lands doing nothing, and then shines. Because when you see someone empty SH into your shield, you think they messed up, and the fact that you think they are vulnerable is gonna make you shield grab or try and counterratack, and that's when his shine hits you. If you stayed in shield after the shine he's just going to continue with normal shield pressure, so really just by changing that one little action, so much more comes out of it.
It's small things like that that make up a great player's playstyle, or in the case of our community, Mango's playstyle. (PeePee's catching up though and lots of players do similar things)
If I throw someone onto a platform as Sheik, say I Uthrow Fox and I'm kinda predicting he's going to tech in place, which would be the right side of the platform, but he rolls to the left...And I was planning on using a dair to hit him...I'm gonna jump up and get ready to dair, but when I see him roll to the left, if I follow through with the dair, I'm gonna miss and he's gonna get away, a good thing to do would be waveland into a grab, or waveland to right in front of his shield into jab range.
Jab him once, he falls off the platform, I follow him with fair. That's safe because if he has enough time to get his shield up when he lands, I'm in good pressure range...If he rolls behind me I can punish.
Forget about that last paragraph, that's just the follow up.
But the point is, if you can't connect a combo, don't let your instinct and muscle memory betray you and try to connect it. Consciously keep the spacing tight, recognize the situation (are they shielding when I thought this hit was going to connect? Am I planning on tech chasing with dash atack as Sheik, but since he's rolling away I'm not gonna have enough time to get there, so should I cancel my dash with a shield and wait for him to dodge or shield?) and switch to whatever is the most effective thing to do at the moment. That's something else I'm working on.
Also, just to give one last example of this...probably the most impressive, or one of the most impressive is a little thing Mango does as Falco/Fox.
He will short hop towards you, or fall down from a platform or w/e. You expect an attack to hit the shield and then a shine, because that's basic shield pressure. If he sees your shielding, while he's coming towards you from the SH, which is so little time to do this, he can react and instead of throwing out the aerial, he lands doing nothing, and then shines. Because when you see someone empty SH into your shield, you think they messed up, and the fact that you think they are vulnerable is gonna make you shield grab or try and counterratack, and that's when his shine hits you. If you stayed in shield after the shine he's just going to continue with normal shield pressure, so really just by changing that one little action, so much more comes out of it.
It's small things like that that make up a great player's playstyle, or in the case of our community, Mango's playstyle. (PeePee's catching up though and lots of players do similar things)
UlyssesTheTrojan
Smash Apprentice
Can I just say that I have learned a lot from this thread. All these inspirational posts have, well, inspired me. Time to go punch that Gamecube power button....Right after homework.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
It's funny cuz they're not really meant to "inspire," although the fact that they do is ****in awesome. And yeah, homework first dude
M@1funk$hun
Smash Ace
These posts just make me realize that there is competition to become the honest-to-god best a person can be. I felt like I was the only one for awhile XD
hey do you really live in rochester? do you plan on going to any tourneys before pound? cuz I'm on long island and it'd be cool to play you
hey do you really live in rochester? do you plan on going to any tourneys before pound? cuz I'm on long island and it'd be cool to play you
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Yeah I live in Rochester dude, I'm going to a tournament in Troy on the 11th, and also I think Mass Madness in January if you wanna play
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
I'm at work on break, literally all I can think about all day is Smash.
This weekend was amazing. Both Saturday and Sunday from the moment I woke up, which was around 11 AM, I played pretty much all day until like 2 AM with breaks for food in between. There's a few interesting things to note about playing for 12-14 hours a day for two days straight.
1.) I definitely noticed improvement when I was done playing. If you play for a few hours here and there it's kinda hard to tell, but when you're working on specific things for two days straight, at the end of both days at least for me, I was nailing everything I was working on. It's very rewarding and satisfying.
2.) Playing for 2 days straight, I hit beast mode twice and once I hit it, it usually doesn't go away but it usually takes all day to get there, and it usually happens after I take a break. Very rarely did I play "bad," but most of the time I played slightly above average.
As soon as I hit beast mode I pay super close attention to everything I can about myself, in order to hopefully gain as much information as possible to use in order to be able to play like that whenever I want.
The main differences between normal play and my beast mode, and maybe it's the same for everyone else, is spacing, timing, and perfect tech skill. Spacing is the biggest. Everything just sort of comes together and I'm always in the right position at the right time. My shield pressure with Link was retardedly good, and it was all because of spacing with nairs, jabs and dash dancing in front of shield. Timing was huge too, because I mixed in delayed nairs with rising nairs, as well as buffer spot dodging after L cancelling on shield, as well as waveland back jab. Perfect tech skill was huge as well. I decided to play with a lot of low tiers or mid you could say such as Link, Dr Mario and others and I found that I wasn't messing up at all. I don't EVER touch those characters but the natural feel you have for a character that you've played for a while...I got that with those characters. Maybe it's just from watching videos, but I can't really say.
Another thing is combos. Even with characters I never play, my combos were beautiful. With Link, everything pushed my opponent to the edge and ended in an Up B. If I couldn't finish with Up B, I reset the position quickly and tried to mindgame into it.
The best feeling in the world is perfect tech skill. It's the absolute greatest. I could just pick up any character and do everything perfectly...WD OOS, perfect SHFFL's, combos. This was probably the first time I've truly felt like Smash is MY game...This is what I'm supposed to do, and it's very reassuring when I play like that that I'm not wasting my time.
So, that's what happens when I'm playing good, those major differences. There's minor ones too like precision (Even though I've never tried before, I could consistently sweetspot the edge with Link's hookshot.)
But, what triggers it...Why did it happen?
I think most of it is mental. I felt no anxiety at all, no pressure. Just completely at ease, ready and eager to play. I wasn't distracted by any outside elements, and even when I lost or got ***** I didn't feel any negative emotions. Just complete confidence in my abilities. I think that's it, you have to be completely at ease with the mindset that no one can touch you. At least that's what I'm guessing based off when this happened in the past. Hopefully I can hit it again a few times this week and try and figure out this mystery a little more..I'm out of work in an hour so I'm pumped haha
This weekend was amazing. Both Saturday and Sunday from the moment I woke up, which was around 11 AM, I played pretty much all day until like 2 AM with breaks for food in between. There's a few interesting things to note about playing for 12-14 hours a day for two days straight.
1.) I definitely noticed improvement when I was done playing. If you play for a few hours here and there it's kinda hard to tell, but when you're working on specific things for two days straight, at the end of both days at least for me, I was nailing everything I was working on. It's very rewarding and satisfying.
2.) Playing for 2 days straight, I hit beast mode twice and once I hit it, it usually doesn't go away but it usually takes all day to get there, and it usually happens after I take a break. Very rarely did I play "bad," but most of the time I played slightly above average.
As soon as I hit beast mode I pay super close attention to everything I can about myself, in order to hopefully gain as much information as possible to use in order to be able to play like that whenever I want.
The main differences between normal play and my beast mode, and maybe it's the same for everyone else, is spacing, timing, and perfect tech skill. Spacing is the biggest. Everything just sort of comes together and I'm always in the right position at the right time. My shield pressure with Link was retardedly good, and it was all because of spacing with nairs, jabs and dash dancing in front of shield. Timing was huge too, because I mixed in delayed nairs with rising nairs, as well as buffer spot dodging after L cancelling on shield, as well as waveland back jab. Perfect tech skill was huge as well. I decided to play with a lot of low tiers or mid you could say such as Link, Dr Mario and others and I found that I wasn't messing up at all. I don't EVER touch those characters but the natural feel you have for a character that you've played for a while...I got that with those characters. Maybe it's just from watching videos, but I can't really say.
Another thing is combos. Even with characters I never play, my combos were beautiful. With Link, everything pushed my opponent to the edge and ended in an Up B. If I couldn't finish with Up B, I reset the position quickly and tried to mindgame into it.
The best feeling in the world is perfect tech skill. It's the absolute greatest. I could just pick up any character and do everything perfectly...WD OOS, perfect SHFFL's, combos. This was probably the first time I've truly felt like Smash is MY game...This is what I'm supposed to do, and it's very reassuring when I play like that that I'm not wasting my time.
So, that's what happens when I'm playing good, those major differences. There's minor ones too like precision (Even though I've never tried before, I could consistently sweetspot the edge with Link's hookshot.)
But, what triggers it...Why did it happen?
I think most of it is mental. I felt no anxiety at all, no pressure. Just completely at ease, ready and eager to play. I wasn't distracted by any outside elements, and even when I lost or got ***** I didn't feel any negative emotions. Just complete confidence in my abilities. I think that's it, you have to be completely at ease with the mindset that no one can touch you. At least that's what I'm guessing based off when this happened in the past. Hopefully I can hit it again a few times this week and try and figure out this mystery a little more..I'm out of work in an hour so I'm pumped haha
Don't forget it was always after a break when you got that way. =)
Violence
Smash Lord
Jesiah, are you going down there to Don't Go Down There Jeff?
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Violence- Probably not man. I wish though.
So, yesterday I came home and my friend Minh (Minic, placed 13th in doubles at ROM) was at my place. I decided to do a cast battle with him, a cast ditto battle that is. We both started with Dr. Mario dittos, then moved to Mario, and all the way down the list. Each of us had 3 "sets" we could use, which means if we lost a ditto, you can use one of your 3 sets to turn it into a best of 3 and attempt a comeback with counterpicks and all.
It took like 2 hours seriously, and I managed to win by a pretty good amount...HOWEVER, I learned how many different things I have to work on. Like, there's a lot.
First off, I never use projectiles with any character and he's amazing with them. Just learning how to outcamp him and force him to approach would have won me many of the dittos I lost. It was mainly me weaving in and out of pills, fireballs, turnips (Trying to outmanuever through turnips as peach is tough) and other projectiles. I'm good at it, WD'ing OOS a lot, looking for opportunities to strike, but he's ready for my approaches so it becomes difficult.
I guess I'd be interested in learning how to counter these projectile strategies with various cast members, but ultimately the main goal is just to learn how to crush other characters' projectile games with my main characters. During tournament and in friendlies I kinda just wing it, and move around them and stuff...But I need to immerse myself in this aspect of my game. I need to practice vs every characters' projectiles so much, that they feel like their projectile game is useless. I have some pretty good ideas but there's still a lot of testing, learning how to execute consistently, and then integrating it into my gameplay as just another part of my game. That's what I have to do. (That sentence is grammatically incorrect, but I don't care.)
Another thing Minh does that he does better than ANYONE I've ever played against is up close footsies/jab battles.
At a certain range, it's nearly impossible to touch him. If you throw out an attack he's one pixel out of range and he counters with quick pokes. If you try and CC it, he pushes you away with various attacks so that your move that you CC with doesn't hit because you're out of range. If you try and SH in you get stuffed by some random moves like Dr Mario's Utilt or something.
This aspect of his game is incredible. It comes from his Street Fighter skills. (That's the main game he plays.)
The only problem is that's pretty much his whole game, or a large part. He closes space and plays that footsie/jab war/CC game and always wins, and it happens over and over until you're in combo percent and his attacks begin to knock you down, in which case he punishes missed techs or tech chases.
I want to learn this aspect of his game, get an intuitive, natural feel for it like he does, which is only going to be acquired through repetition. And then, I want to be able to use it to win any up close battles vs anyone. When I say, "Win" I mean they take more damage, and they're the ones to shield first or roll or even just retreat first. I want to be the one to force them into a defensive position.
I do want to refine this aspect of his game though to reap greater rewards, like having it lead into grabs somehow. I'll figure it out.
There's also more, but I gotta get back to work now.
Oh also, in my last post I talked about how that one night I had perfect tech skill with every character...This time it was opposite, I couldn't stop missing wavedashes and combos, like simple Dthrow combos. Also, it got boring halfway through, and extremely tedious at points just trying to get around projectiles and getting jabbed and tilted at close range over and over again...But, it was the best endurance practice I've ever had, I was really forced to stay focused because I could have lost any ditto at any time. Another challenge was, when I lost a ditto I felt I lost due to my errors (DK Dittos and Falcon) it got me annoyed and angry and I wanted to be like, "This is stupid let's just end this." But I'd be quitting on myself and quite a hypocrite if I actually did that, right? :-P
So, yesterday I came home and my friend Minh (Minic, placed 13th in doubles at ROM) was at my place. I decided to do a cast battle with him, a cast ditto battle that is. We both started with Dr. Mario dittos, then moved to Mario, and all the way down the list. Each of us had 3 "sets" we could use, which means if we lost a ditto, you can use one of your 3 sets to turn it into a best of 3 and attempt a comeback with counterpicks and all.
It took like 2 hours seriously, and I managed to win by a pretty good amount...HOWEVER, I learned how many different things I have to work on. Like, there's a lot.
First off, I never use projectiles with any character and he's amazing with them. Just learning how to outcamp him and force him to approach would have won me many of the dittos I lost. It was mainly me weaving in and out of pills, fireballs, turnips (Trying to outmanuever through turnips as peach is tough) and other projectiles. I'm good at it, WD'ing OOS a lot, looking for opportunities to strike, but he's ready for my approaches so it becomes difficult.
I guess I'd be interested in learning how to counter these projectile strategies with various cast members, but ultimately the main goal is just to learn how to crush other characters' projectile games with my main characters. During tournament and in friendlies I kinda just wing it, and move around them and stuff...But I need to immerse myself in this aspect of my game. I need to practice vs every characters' projectiles so much, that they feel like their projectile game is useless. I have some pretty good ideas but there's still a lot of testing, learning how to execute consistently, and then integrating it into my gameplay as just another part of my game. That's what I have to do. (That sentence is grammatically incorrect, but I don't care.)
Another thing Minh does that he does better than ANYONE I've ever played against is up close footsies/jab battles.
At a certain range, it's nearly impossible to touch him. If you throw out an attack he's one pixel out of range and he counters with quick pokes. If you try and CC it, he pushes you away with various attacks so that your move that you CC with doesn't hit because you're out of range. If you try and SH in you get stuffed by some random moves like Dr Mario's Utilt or something.
This aspect of his game is incredible. It comes from his Street Fighter skills. (That's the main game he plays.)
The only problem is that's pretty much his whole game, or a large part. He closes space and plays that footsie/jab war/CC game and always wins, and it happens over and over until you're in combo percent and his attacks begin to knock you down, in which case he punishes missed techs or tech chases.
I want to learn this aspect of his game, get an intuitive, natural feel for it like he does, which is only going to be acquired through repetition. And then, I want to be able to use it to win any up close battles vs anyone. When I say, "Win" I mean they take more damage, and they're the ones to shield first or roll or even just retreat first. I want to be the one to force them into a defensive position.
I do want to refine this aspect of his game though to reap greater rewards, like having it lead into grabs somehow. I'll figure it out.
There's also more, but I gotta get back to work now.
Oh also, in my last post I talked about how that one night I had perfect tech skill with every character...This time it was opposite, I couldn't stop missing wavedashes and combos, like simple Dthrow combos. Also, it got boring halfway through, and extremely tedious at points just trying to get around projectiles and getting jabbed and tilted at close range over and over again...But, it was the best endurance practice I've ever had, I was really forced to stay focused because I could have lost any ditto at any time. Another challenge was, when I lost a ditto I felt I lost due to my errors (DK Dittos and Falcon) it got me annoyed and angry and I wanted to be like, "This is stupid let's just end this." But I'd be quitting on myself and quite a hypocrite if I actually did that, right? :-P
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Getting past people's walling is one of the most rewarding feelings, especially when you figure out their patterns for once you breach their "space," bait them into repeating those patterns, and punish heavily.
There are so many levels of mindgames, in that if you get somebody to play your game it all comes down to a matter of them trying to guess if you've reached a point where your trap is "over," or if you're just baiting them to fall into another habit/respond predictably (if that makes any sense at all).
There are so many levels of mindgames, in that if you get somebody to play your game it all comes down to a matter of them trying to guess if you've reached a point where your trap is "over," or if you're just baiting them to fall into another habit/respond predictably (if that makes any sense at all).
ranmaru
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
- Messages
- 13,297
- Switch FC
- SW-0654 7794 0698
Hmmm, I'd like to play your friend. I feel as though my core strength might just be gimping. It'd be nice to see how he plays. (Meaning I'd like my footsies/jab game get better) Because I guess it's good to have more than ONE strong ability.
So, if you say his game is mainly footsies/jab/CC wars, what do you say is your main game?
darkoblivion12
Smash Lord
I have to say from playing against minh, sometimes it is horrifically frustrating. Not to say it's a bad thing, because he's really good, and playing against him makes you think a lot more about your spacing and what defensive maneuvers you are taking.