Quest to Become the Best

[Druggedfox]

OTG- I'd love to have you guys here every weekend, I may even fly you up myself...as long as you're not as much of a **** when you're at my apartment as you are on the boards :-P

Definitely will be flying Niko out if he wants to, or maybe Ill come visit you guys.

I bought my ticket to NC, PP will be picking me up Thursday at 11:30 PM. I took Friday off of work, so we'll probably play well into the morning on Thursday night, and all day Friday.

Tournament time will come around and I am PUMPED to play with all of NC. I want lots of matchup experience and just different playstyles in general.

Any NC'er reading this: I will also (Obviously) be writing about my experiences with the different players and playstyles I come across. Tonight when I get out of work I'll be writing about my goals in terms of training with PP and how i'm preparing for the tournament. I'm coming home Sunday night, so I'll be able to play all day Sunday with PP as well.

Jesiah we need to play at G6 =]

 

[Dark Hart]

I can't wait to see what he writes about me

 

[joeplicate]

dark hart, lemme write something about u


u suck

just kidding

 

[DoH]

Jesse come back to texas. I'll take you to some more malls

 

[JesiahTEG]

Joe- Your posts are awesome dude. I appreciate your time and thought that you put into them. Please keep 'em coming

Dark Hart- You're gonna have to let me know who you are man when we play haha

Drugged Fox- for sure man, glad to see like me, you're making it to more and more oos tournies. Break out player soon?

Landon- Remember that asian girl that wanted nothing to do with me besides sell me the hair styler and im like "No, i want YOU!!" and she just didnt understand lolll

 

[JesiahTEG]

Origins: Exploring Marth

I am hoping to post a lot today. I want to talk a lot about Marth as a character though, and just my personal thoughts on him. I think it's important to begin this post by going back to when I first started playing Melee.

I went to Youtube one day after thinking to myself, "Hey, I haven't played Smash in a while. Let me see what I can find on Youtube." I found a match of Ken's Marth vs Isai, and I was watching them move at incredible speeds. I was amazed, but once I saw Ken Ken Combo Isai, I immediately paused it and freaked out. For some reason, it was just the coolest thing I'd seen. I immediately went to my friend's house and asked to borrow his Cube and began trying to do the Ken combo, not understanding the concepts of DI and percentages and where to hit them with the Fair to set them up for it. Thinking back on it, I still remember how "Epic" each Ken combo felt, every time I watched it on Youtube. I began watching Ken's videos religiously, as well as Kizzu's combo videos which were pretty much all Ken combos hahaha. I also went to Ken's MLG profile page, and also friended him on AIM.

I was too nervous to talk to him at first because everyone I saw on youtube vids posting and on MLG said Ken was an *******. Eventually once I had been practicing for a week or so, I messaged him. I can remember the conversation very very clearly, word for word.

Me- "Hey Ken, I don't want to bother you, but I just have a quick question."
Ken- "Sure thing."
Me- "If I were to choose and master one advanced technique, only one, which one would it be?"
Ken replies instantly- "That's easy. L Cancelling for sure."
Me- "Thanks Ken!"

*Goes to his Cube and begins practicing L cancelling, which is ironic considering all these years later I'm still missing them here and there*

A few days later after I had stayed up all night practicing and watching videos, Ken came online at 7AM. I was watching him play vs. Mikael, so I messaged him as soon as he got online. The convo went like this:

Me- Ken I'm watching you play right now vs Peach!
Ken- Oh cool. Am I winning?
Me- Duh.
Ken- Ok good haha.

It's pretty dumb, and at the time I had no idea he was just a normal person who played Smash. Back then, the smash legends were just that...legends. I remember asking my friend questions about Ken, since my friend had been in the scene longer than me.

Me- Dude, do you think Ken could Ken combo you all 4 stocks if he wanted to?
Friend- I'm not sure, probably.

The point is, I was obsessed with Ken and Marth for about my first year and a half, maybe even two years playing the game. I never played with any other character, and people would get annoyed. People who were trying to have fun and practice different characters wouldn't play me anymore because of how often I played Marth. I played Blue Marth, because I didn't want to take Ken's color haha...Even though Azen is just as beast.

Thinking back to then, I almost feel...ashamed at myself for switching from Marth so often. If I go back to when it first happened, there was a player in my area named PikaPika who I could never beat. After a while I could pretty much beat anyone but he always beat me. He played Sheik.

I started practicing Fox over and over and finally, after so long, I beat him in an MM. I wanted to win so bad I kept playing Fox and my Fox got better. Ever since then, which was a long time ago, whenever I used Marth in tournament I always choked. I think it was because I could never beat him with Marth so long ago.

So, I practiced the crap out of my Marth but never played him in tournament. Even now I still kinda suck with him in tournament. I played a Marth player named Broly from Texas who is actually really good and extremely smart. We did two Marth ditto MM's. He beat me the first, 2-1, then I beat him the next. In tournament, he 4 stocked me on FD in Marth dittos, which I promised him I'd upload because I have the vids. (Mental note to self)

Looking back on where I came from in terms of my origins in the Smash community, I am a Marth player. Not only that though, but I really do enjoy him the most. I love his range, I love his combos, his uniqueness. He is elegant, swift and tricky. I love his spikes and his dash dance, his edgeguards...Literally everything about him I love.

So recently as I'm sure you're all aware because I'm pretty sure I've made posts about it, I've begun to explore Marth at a deeper level. I've been exploring different combos, playing without grabs, trying to edgeguard differently. It feels good to acquire more depth with a character. It's a slow improvement, but also the more I play him the more comfortable I feel in every situation. I'm not really sure how to avoid getting gimped as Fox by Marth, although I can do the gimping. Situations like that, I want mastery in. Mastery is developed by focus and concentration on whatever aspects you're trying to master. Dabbling with characters is good but not enough to play at the highest levels.

So the next question is, what happens when I play against a disadvantaged matchup? What happens if I go against a Sheik in tournament? I'm really good at Sheik dittos, or at least i like to think so for the level I'm at, but I'm also really good at Marth vs Sheik, but why lower my chances just to go Marth?

In tournament at ROM3, I won the first match barely against a Fox player named KY. Next match he took me to FD as Falco, and I spent the summer playing against Axe and Forward's Falcos, so of course I'm ECSTATIC to play the matchup. Then I lost. I switched to Fox and I believe it was a 3 stock.

It's gotta be mental. It has to be. I have 10x the amount of experience as Marth then I do as Fox. I played him all summer. The only thing I can think to beat this...whatever you want to call it, is just to play more and more Marth. Memorize more situations. Feel him at a deeper level. Make Marth my game. When I say that, I mean being completely comfortable in every situation, knowing what to do and how to execute it, as opposed to trying to win with other characters due to having an advantaged matchup.

I may still go Fox for Falcon, but who knows. I like the matchup with Marth also.

Special thanks to Niko for pushing me over the edge and forcing me to do something I've been wanting to do for a while: Become a true Marth main.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Odd Tech Skill Conundrum

I'm going to try and explain this, but I don't know well I'll be able to.

As I've been playing mostly exclusively Marth, I've gotten my feel for him back and the tech skill I need to basically feel comfortable playing him all the time now.

But, on the other hand, my tech skill has been off with him recently. Pretty off. I feel too slippery, my dash dances aren't the lengths they need to be sometimes. For example if I'm trying to Dash Dance to bait the spot dodge and then punish with Up B, I mess it up sometimes.

Another weird thing is that I keep jumping when I'm not trying to. I don't understand it. I guess my finger is hitting the jump button without me realizing it? It's dumb and frustrating.

I'm missing fastfalls on shields which are necessary for me to avoid shieldgrabs by dodging and/or up b'ing, or dashing through them.

Sometimes when I try to turn and ftilt, I'll just jab the opposite direction and keep jabbing.

When I try to fair, I get Dair a lot.

When I try to reverse Up B, sometimes I won't reverse it so I'll just die instead of recovering.

Altogether these tech errors are making up close to 30% of my game. It's unacceptable but the weird thing is, I'm having trouble understanding why it's happening. It's not like my Marth is rusty. I've gotten him up to speed.

It's not like the tech errors are a result of me trying new things. Like, accidentally jumping over and over? I don't get how that can happen all of a sudden when I've never had that tech error since I first started playing the game. It's odd.

I'm really trying to figure out this whole tech skill thing. I feel tech skill holds a LOT of people back and it's generally a very unexplored area in terms of how to improve it and whatnot. Most people I've come across just either accept themselves as technically gifted or not. They just play a lot and do what they can.

I don't buy it. I may not have the answers to perfect tech skill right now, but I intend to study and unravel them throughout my Smash career.

 

[Acryte]

Don't shy away from dittos, the great part about them is that everything they do to you, you can do as well... its never a range disadvantage, its spacing and reads. so everytime they do something or continue to read effectively you can adjust your own game and learn from it directly.

You said you talked with ken before, why not discuss the shiek matchup directly with someone like M2K. He's the best marth and imo the best shiek. I'm sure he knows it from both sides very well and he could help iron out your marth

I don't play marth as a main but I do love to play and also watch marth. So smooth and stylish and able to control and dictate the pace of his matchups

 

[thesage]

If you want to be good with Marth in tournament, you have to play him in tournament. It's useless to play other characters (in tournament) if you just want to be good with Marth.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I feel too slippery, my dash dances aren't the lengths they need to be sometimes. For example if I'm trying to Dash Dance to bait the spot dodge and then punish with Up B, I mess it up sometimes.

Practice them. If you mess up when playing, slow it down more or really think about what you want it to look like.


Another weird thing is that I keep jumping when I'm not trying to. I don't understand it. I guess my finger is hitting the jump button without me realizing it? It's dumb and frustrating.

You're accidentally hitting up to jump.


I'm missing fastfalls on shields which are necessary for me to avoid shieldgrabs by dodging and/or up b'ing, or dashing through them.

Oh, well then I think you should FF before you use an aerial on shield. That should fix it.


Sometimes when I try to turn and ftilt, I'll just jab the opposite direction and keep jabbing.

It takes longer to turn around and you're trying to push the buttons too quickly. Slow your inputs down.


When I try to fair, I get Dair a lot.

Probably from when you try to FF. Separate the inputs in your head.


When I try to reverse Up B, sometimes I won't reverse it so I'll just die instead of recovering.

Depends on the angle on your controller you up-B with I guess.

I've had tech skill days before and most of those problems with Marth lol so I know what that's like. Responses are in bold btw.

 

[Dark Hart]

dark hart, lemme write something about u


u suck

just kidding

<3 youuuuuuu

Dark Hart- You're gonna have to let me know who you are man when we play haha

Will do, buddy. I hope we get a good amount of games in

Responses are in italics btw.

alll quotes are in italics

how long have you been on smashboards anyway, Kevin, guh

 

[ChivalRuse]

@PP

He means when he hits a shield with an aerial, the extra hitlag sometimes messes up his fast fall timing.

 

[Dr Peepee]

LOL dang back to editing. =p

Learn somethin new every day

 

[Dark Hart]

gotchaaaaaaaaaaaaa

(The Malk)

 

[Niko45]

Jesse I'm glad you're inspired to play Marth and push your Marth further.

I've had huge problems with nerves in tournament in the past and in our sets I thought for me personally it was a pretty huge personal victory as far as keeping my composure and not buckling under the pressure of playing a good sheik.

Everyone's prone to pressure but I think you could make the case that Marth is especially prone to choking/nerves since he is reliant on precise timing and spacing at all times in order to stay in control. Pretty much every character can **** him hard if they get in on him and they basically do if you commit to anything and are wrong. I basically look at it as Marth kind of has the initial advantage over just about every character, but it's a very fragile advantage that could collapse in a hurry. If you play well, though, he gives you a very solid chance to win always imo, and that's why I have so much faith in him.

I play Marth almost exclusively. I mean, even in **** around friendlies, I play Marth around 85% of the time. I'll easily sit there and play marth for 5 hours straight, I just don't give a ****. I don't get bored with him. He has a ton of depth and I rarely feel like I can't see ways I can improve (so frustrating when you can't visualize being better, but that never lasts that long).

It's no secret that Marth has fallen a bit behind but I believe he can rise again. I think he needs to be taken more seriously by the people who play him (like CF mains pretty much exclusively play CF, and you see how CF generally overperforms compared to his tier ranking). If played like this I think a player could quite feasibly get good enough to win a national with him exclusively and though it might not look like that right now things can change in a hurry.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Yeah and there's a lot of up and coming Marth players I think too...I wouldn't be surprised if he made a comeback.

 

[Tee ay eye]

yeah buddy

 

[JesiahTEG]

I like how I talk about up and coming Marths and you're instantly here TAI LOL

 

[Tee ay eye]

you know i'm lurkin' procrastinating my homework

*looks down at book*
*looks up at computer screen and refreshes SmashBoards*
*sees new post in "Quest to Become the Best"*

 

[JesiahTEG]

no i think you searched "tai" and the result came up with my post with "up and coming marth players" highlighted in yellow :-p

 

[Dark Hart]

TAI.

He's...

not TAJ

 

[Tee ay eye]

no i think you searched "tai" and the result came up with my post with "up and coming marth players" highlighted in yellow :-p

teehee

oh, you

one of my regrets as a smash player is not making my name four (or more) letters. i can't namesearch

 

[DoH]

one of my regrets as a smash player is not making my name four (or more) letters. i can't namesearch

 

[Wake]

haha this is great. Tai makes a good point...

 

[JesiahTEG]

So 2 smashers, themanalord and Trademark came and are spending a few days at my house to play. I'm really excited to get home from work at 3 to play them.

Manalord is still good. He never plays but always manages to stay at the same level or at least improve a little bit. He plays Falcon and he's naturally really smart, but lacks experience in certain situations. His combos are really good. They feel more threatening than deadly though for some reason, although he does combo me across FD his Falcon vs my Marth pretty easily though.

If there's one thing I learned from playing him last night, it's that you have to be ON POINT with Marth to play that matchup. I don't think the matchup is that bad at all. Maybe Marth loses. Maybe it's even. It's close enough to the point where I'm comfortable in the matchup.

In fact, it's almost more enjoyable because I don't have any tricks or huge advantages to use. It's just a battle of smarts and combos/edgeguarding. I'm gonna be playing the matchup a lot more, hopefully flushing out and gaining a better understanding of Falcon's grab game vs Marth. If anyone can answer the following questions for me, accurately, that would help me a lot:

1.) Give me some good advice on DI'ing Falcon's throws/combos. I get confused when to hold away and when to hold in. I don't know when he's going to stop Uairing me and when he's going to knee me, so I end up either getting combo'd longer cuz I'm expecting a knee so I'm holding in, or I DI a knee horribly and end up dying.

2.) What TECHNICALLY works on Marth as Falcon with Dthrow at low percents.

I basically want as good of an understanding of Falcon's grab game vs Marth as I do with Fox's vs Marth. That stuff is second nature now (unless I'm being an idiot). If I can get it that way with Falcon, that'd make me feel even more comfortable with the matchup.

Trademark is also very good. He plays mainly Peach from what I can tell. He doesn't really do anything stupid which makes it hard to catch him on anything...Maybe he doesn't DI fthrow fsmash as fast as he should. Other than that, he makes me work for all my kills. He easily lives over 120 and mostly over 150 vs my Marth as Peach pretty consistently, and doesn't really get spiked that often.

His combos are really good, and he's good at getting inside of Marth's range at Peach and comboing him before he can swat out with Fair or double jump or whatever. His edgeguarding is also really good. He's from CT and I can't wait to get home and play with him even more. The Peach practice is awesome.

Back to work :-P

 

[mers]

I generally DI down and away on every part of Falcon's combos unless he's using his double-jump to hit me. That way, I know it's the last hit. I find that it's really difficult for him to knee me on down and away DI anyways, and I usually get uaired only. The falcon I play probably isn't as good as Manalord though.

If you DI down and away on Falcon's dthrow, I find that you can often fair whatever he does, except chaingrab. Sometimes he can get a quick uair in, but you can maybe escape after that. So the main thing is the chainthrow, which works on away DI at low percents.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Quick Mental Note to self: Work on my movement. It's a fundamental that deserves to be mastered, as oppose to a shallow trick that looks cool or can only help in a niche situation.

*Work on DD'ing
*Work on Shielding and moving out of shield
*Work on baiting with Aerials

To elaborate: When someone sees me DD'ing, what are they thinking? How do I capitalize? If someone sees me spamming fairs, what are they going to try to do? What are they being careful of? How do I capitalize?

If I shield will they grab? Can I mix up and master various forms of movement, understanding the concepts behind them in order to create a unique, effective playstyle?

 

[CloneHat]

Have you tried playing with other good people in slow motion, looking at everything step-by-step?

I haven't, but it could be helpful

 

[JesiahTEG]

So I'm playing my friend Nightro, who has been improving a lot lately, but I'm still a pretty large margin better than him. I can usually 3 and 4 stock him. The part thats fascinating but also very interesting and helpful to me is that it's annoying playing him...Annoying in a good way. Annoying in the fact that I can't really just get away with what I want, when I want. There are problems I face that I can't seem to find a quick answer for. Any help from a great Falco/Marth main, or people with ideas please share. Here are the problems I face when I play him:

*When I get close to Falco, I begin DD'ing to bait his approach. It works 90% of the time, I just move out of the way and punish...But, sometimes he Fsmashes and it ALWAYS catches me. It's range and the fact that it lasts a split second longer throw me off I think, plus I can never predict it.

*His tech skill isn't really that good yet. It's decent enough, but when he shield pressures me, there's no rhythym. An example is, he hits my shield with Dair and I don't want to shieldgrab cuz the shine...But, he misses the L cancel. As soon as I see that and react to it, it's too late cuz now he's mashing shine so I get hit as I try to shieldgrab.

So, I think to myself, just wait until the shine no matter what. So, he hits my shield with Dair, now I'm waiting...He just kinda stops and studders because he messes up tech skill, accidentally dodges, and through all that time, my shield has deteriorated so now he utilts and it ends up shield stabbing me.

Lastly, I do lots of WD out of shield and it actually escapes the pressure. But, I can't punish once I get out because he's too far away, and I end up getting lasered or something.

So, it's interesting. His shield pressure really is random. I've determined that. BUT the underlying concept is, the randomness ends up being a mix up. A very basic mixup that throws me off like crazy. It's harder than getting out of good players' shield pressure for me. Luckily I get hit by Utilt or Shine and Smash DI and fly away and he can't really pressure/combo me yet so nothing happens. BUT I gotta figure out how to reliably beat it everytime. There's gotta be a way.

*I'm having trouble vs Falco's lasers. I watch Amsah play (He's the best vs lasers I feel) and he gets to a range where he's safe from an attack from falco, like nair or dair, but if they try to laser he will punish it, or, he takes the laser and punishes their approach. He jumps over a lot with fair, but Marth can't do that. So, I'm trying to work on a strategy to punish lasers at close range, while still being safe from attacks. I'm thinking Dash Dancing and as soon as I see movement punishing, but I haven't been able to successfully so far. Any thoughts? I'll post more as I think of them. Thanks in advance.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think I've gotten away with Nair'ing over the Fsmash before.....but I mean, you could just grab him first if he's just throwing moves out. Or WD back Fsmash or something I dunno there's a lot you could do lol.
I bet you could predict it. He only does it when you're close, so get close then move away some and see what happens.

And that pressure thing is hilarious and has happened to me. Just....shield grab the Dair if he keeps missing the L-cancel on it lol.

Also WD OOS is meant to reset the situation....why does every Marth think they need to get something out of that? So weird. If you get shot so what? It's way better then being pressured and much less percent.

 

[JesiahTEG]

PP- Awesome advice. Will apply

More problems- If Falco jumps in the air and I'm DD'ing, I've learned not to try and grab him when he lands. If he double jumps and I try to punish the initial jump, he'll punish my lag if he double jumps and lands on me.

So, I've started intercepting his double jump with Uair. The only problem is, even though I have it planned out, because of fastfalling/notfastfalling, I get hit by Dair sometimes. A lot of times. If I think he's gonna FF I throw out my Uair early, but if he doesn't I miss and he punishes with Dair. Vice versa if I think he's going to fastfall. I wait, but get hit by Dair early. Is it just spacing?

Next, Crouch Cancel is ruining me. If I land any aerials at low percent, CC shine or Dtilt. Even Utilt at low percents without cc'ing. Like, if I hit with one fair and I'm planning on doing another, the first fair hits, then I'll just get reverse Utilted or something.

I know my spacing needs to be better, but even when my spacing is perfect with fair, it still seems a cc dtilt can hit me. Can I shield in time and punish with WD OOS? Help appreciated.

 

[Deleted member]

hey thats your fault, DarknessOfHeart. I see your gayass premium mushroom down there.

Next time don't make such an obvious kingdom hearts reference that you weren't trying to make lol.

 

[Dr Peepee]

You could still grab Falco when he lands but it's hard I guess.
It's tough to go in and challenge a single jump so it's usually better to bait the double jump unless you see a lot of single jump attacks.

Pretty much just spacing lol.

Space harder at lower % and try to get that grab or delayed aerial if you can.

Yeah if he's gonna Dtilt then you'll get hit I think. But spaced perfectly I doubt the Dtilt will hit. I dunno I'd have to test it or something cuz I got away with it vs M2K so maybe it's **** lol.

 

[LLDL]

^ Lol false advice from a falco main.

Lol jk, but Falco is pretty much unstoppable in the right hands, Jesiah. All you can do is memorize moves and grabs out of sheild into your muscle memory. And perfect your chain grabs and gimps on him. Otherwise, he's just going to combo ->death if the player is competent, smart, and decently technical.

 

[a nub]

jesse powershields almost every laser I shoot, sooooo broken lol. I'm interested to see this matchup broken down. It's probably my best matchup among the top tiers but I still have some huge holes in my game vs marth

If you're leaving thursday, think you and the apartment can swing by egs tomorrow night? we havent played in a while

 

[JesiahTEG]

Jeremy- The problem with powershielding is that it's only like super useful when you're timing is really on. When it's like that, powershield--> whatever just ***** Falco. But, if you try to powershield and you mess up, you try doing something after what you think is going to be a PS, but you mess up the timing because your shield stun is longer than you think if you miss the PS, and then you end up messing up your executions. So, unless you can reliably powershield which I can't do all the time, it almost becomes my enemy lol

Chain-Ace- Yes dude, haha, maximizing opportunities vs Falco is absolutely key. Right now I'm working on the neutral position, but I will def be working on my combos and keeping control.

 

[Deleted member]

I saved this **** so you don't have to. ***.

[20:25] mycatgoesmow: have you been reading up on **** lately?
[20:25] mycatgoesmow: or just playing
[20:26] eveofmorse: on what
[20:27] eveofmorse: girls or smash
[20:27] eveofmorse: what do u mean reading
[20:27] mycatgoesmow: smash
[20:27] mycatgoesmow: idk cause i'm not sure why you'd be having problems w/ falco
[20:27] mycatgoesmow: at least not yet
[20:29] mycatgoesmow: for falling dairs at low % you can jump into it w/ an upair and trade
[20:29] mycatgoesmow: even if you miss completely, when you land you have no stun and can do whatever and he's too high to avoid punishment
[20:29] mycatgoesmow: if you don't want to trade or you're at high %, space fair distance enough that he can't bair your hand
[20:30] mycatgoesmow: you want to bait the bair instead of the dair because the extra range becomes more threatening
[20:30] eveofmorse: um its not so much "problems" as specific situations that i need to master
[20:30] mycatgoesmow: if you show me in videos i can help you
[20:30] mycatgoesmow: marth is very easy vs falco until you hit the "wow falco is gay" wall
[20:30] eveofmorse: yeah ill try
[20:30] mycatgoesmow: but thats pretty high level play
[20:30] mycatgoesmow: also you shouldn't have problems w/ CC pretty much ever
[20:31] mycatgoesmow: if you get hit by CC shine it means you probably went for an aerial vs a grounded falco which is a no-no
[20:31] mycatgoesmow: marth shouldn't use aerials vs grounded opponents much because he's so easy to **** on landing lag
[20:31] mycatgoesmow: marth wants to attack aerial opponents from the ground, or air to air
[20:32] mycatgoesmow: and you want to camp grounded opponents until you can upthrow them or the like
[20:32] mycatgoesmow: his moves are substantially less punishable that way
[20:32] eveofmorse: right right
[20:33] mycatgoesmow: if you're being DD camped and you run extra far and dtiland they cc shine THAT, you should try run in and block
[20:33] mycatgoesmow: a lot of new falcos go for sh bair on approaches and it's actually not that good
[20:33] mycatgoesmow: also if you up angle shields vs falco dair, it forces it to hit high and you can grab that
[20:34] mycatgoesmow: just make sure to follow him w/ it as he follows afterwards so shine can't hit your foot
[20:34] mycatgoesmow: you get it after a little practice
[20:34] mycatgoesmow: it's really good and not used often
[20:34] mycatgoesmow: it also ***** the players that waveland off of platforms into it
[20:35] mycatgoesmow: if you're DD camping and a falco is stupid enough to jump into the air anything higher than a SH, you should accept his invitation to **** him
[20:36] mycatgoesmow: as soon as he's on the air w/o a good horizontal movement speed, he can do absolutely nothing about marth's fair in any way
[20:36] Meebo Message: Could not IM buddy
[20:40] eveofmorse: oh **** you wrote a lot
[20:40] eveofmorse: hold on ima copy and paste it
[20:40] eveofmorse: cuz im still playing
[20:48] mycatgoesmow: god dammit
[20:49] eveofmorse: gotta start shield angling ur right
[20:49] mycatgoesmow: actually
[20:49] mycatgoesmow: it's useless a lot of the time
[20:49] mycatgoesmow: the shield doesn't wear enough to justify it
[20:49] mycatgoesmow: falco is a special case because dair> shine isn't perfect shield pressure
[20:50] mycatgoesmow: so falco has to go through a lot of effort to minimize it's risk
[20:50] mycatgoesmow: even though it's such a strong approach
[20:50] mycatgoesmow: any way you can bone the timing on that should help a lot
[20:50] mycatgoesmow: if you're not sure what to do, light shield
[20:50] eveofmorse: my contorller is broken and cant light shield haha
[20:51] mycatgoesmow: if falco does a close range approach, most of the time it involves jumping either for laser or just moving faster w/ a nair/dair
[20:51] mycatgoesmow: w/ light shield you slide back so if he does another approach it's like a WD back
[20:51] mycatgoesmow: normally when falco does a close laser approach, you can fair over him oos but he can play around that
[20:51] mycatgoesmow: it ends up being safer to WD back because it ruins the spacing that the laser sets up
[20:52] mycatgoesmow: light shield sliding back does that too but not as good but it's still better to avoid the risk if you're not sure you can capitalize on it
[20:52] eveofmorse: gotta get food
[20:52] eveofmorse: pcc
[20:52] mycatgoesmow: ****er
[20:52] mycatgoesmow: ok pcc

 

[Dr Peepee]

lmfao nice

 

[DoH]

It's a Joseph Conrad reference, hence the sticky caps!

 

[ChivalRuse]

Next, Crouch Cancel is ruining me. If I land any aerials at low percent, CC shine or Dtilt. Even Utilt at low percents without cc'ing. Like, if I hit with one fair and I'm planning on doing another, the first fair hits, then I'll just get reverse Utilted or something.

I know my spacing needs to be better, but even when my spacing is perfect with fair, it still seems a cc dtilt can hit me. Can I shield in time and punish with WD OOS? Help appreciated.

As long as he isn't CC grabbing, I see no reason why you couldn't simply delay your aerial and shield upon landing. Falco's d-tilt usually can be shield grabbed (if you're not confident that you'll reach you can just fair out of shield I believe).

Falco's d-tilt can't be punished by wd out of shield directly, as in there isn't enough frame advantage for it to be mathematically possible. However, you can just wd in place out of shield and d-tilt with Marth for a safe "check" of his spotdodge. If he does spotdodge you just walk- or jump-cancel the IASAable frames of d-tilt and grab as soon as his invincibility ends.