Q&A thread ASK QUESTIONS HERE.

[phi1ny3]

Snake is definitely one you need to learn the mentality to get right, otherwise you're gonna eat it.

 

[Alus]

Yeah, Snake definitely beats Lucario. In fact, I think he's our worst matchup.

Hell no...

 

[RT]

I want to believe it's an even matchup, but from all the vids I've seen, combined with my personal experience against UltimateRazer and other Snakes in TX, actually using Snake against Lucario to see how it is from the Snake's perspective, and just overall tournament results, it doesn't seem good. The Snake has to REALLY mess up or just not know a Lucario plays.

And it is probably a mental thing for me. I'll have to try a different approach almost every time I play. Fortunately, the only Snake that only gives me consistent trouble is Razer. But still...yargh.

 

[phi1ny3]

The problem is snake is just incredulously efficient at what he does. You gotta really pull some dime-turn tactics to avoid stuff.
You also gotta be a master reader, it's essential for juggling/attempts at edgeguarding (even though he can just be mean and not let you get the chance much)

 

[RT]

Pretty much. You have to get the first kill on the Snake, or it will be a very difficult comeback. And even then, you usually end up at high percents so that the Snake can just respawn and utilt for a kill and reset the match. <_<

 

[Alus]

I really don't think it is that bad...

It isn't even... It is just that I can't find anything that shuts down lucario as bad as you say.

enlighten me...

 

[phi1ny3]

utilt is soooo annoying, you have to try crossing up, and even then, he's ready to jab/grab to setup, since his ftilt's fresh from respawn as well.

 

[RT]

utilt is soooo annoying, you have to try crossing up, and even then, he's ready to jab/grab to setup, since his ftilt's fresh from respawn as well.

This is one major thing. Utilt has stupidly good range, covers a huge area in front and above Snake, can hit behind him if you're close enough, can kill at stupidly low percents (around 100-130ish% without DI, stage-dependent; even with good DI, you only survive a couple more percents because of it's knockback and Lucario's mediocre vert resistance), comes out super fast OoS/spotdodge, can be done after a jab cancel, can shieldpush, etc. It's essentially a guaranteed kill move after you reach a certain percent. It's essentially a guaranteed kill move after a certain percent.

Ftilt is also good with damage, shield pressure, and shield push. Two full clean hits unstaled=21%. How many attacks does Lucario need to do to catch up? <_<

Snake has so many options with his explosives. C4 setups/traps, mine setups/traps, nades for pressure/trap/camping/setups.

He lives a stupidly long time unless the Lucario is at high percents. If the Lucario dies before killing the Snake, he has to get Snake up to a ridiculously high percent before killing him. However, you'll almost always take more damage in the process.

Snake's ground game is much better than Lucario's IMO, and Lucario has to get somewhat close to kill him unless you can get a AS kill. While Snake's options are limited in the air, his aerials are still okay at protecting him and can be used for killing.

I dunno. Snake just has more overall kill potential, priority (it's so disgusting), and can easily outlive a Lucario; all of these things make the matchup dumb. I don't think it's his worst matchup, but you literally have to punish every single mistake the Snake makes and punish him HARD for maximum effect. And the Snake can pretty much undo all of your work with two or three hits.

And I'm really curious to hear from the people who think the matchup is even and who they regularly play against. Not trying to instigate, I just want to hear why they think it's even.

 

[phi1ny3]

Used to think it was 55:45, but then I realised I was looking at ideal conditions (like stages) and forgot to factor in realistic/likely scenarios. imo Japes is one of the better stages to fight him on, only because the stage layout could throw a kink in his "explosive" box, utilt won't kill until much later, as will most of his explosives (remember, they kill vertically), and ftilt's gonna be really stale so it's not as bad there. The only reason I'd entertain the thought now is that lucarios have still done really well on neutral stages that are considered more heavily in snake's favor, but I'm solidly in the 60:40 boat now.

 

[Alus]

Geez, I dislike Matchup ratios in general... what is the point in them?

 

[RT]

Matchups should just be described as being Impossible, Disadvantage, Even, Advantage, or Extreme Advantage.

 

[Milln]

Geez, I dislike Matchup ratios in general... what is the point in them?

Ratios describe the supposed percentage at which the battle two characters, if played absolutely flawlessly, would win. Usually out of a hundred or ten matches. Therefore, 60:40 means that the 60 character would win 60 matches out of a 100, if BOTH CHARACTERS ARE PLAYED ABSOLUTELY PERFECT. <-- This is the key factor that many people misunderstand. It's not "at high level play", it's "at the state of perfection" that these numbers matter.

I'm with Rocket, I like the subjectiveness that description words afford.

 

[Fizzle_Boy]

*forgot to check the last page ignore this part of the post*

I'd really like to have a Luca's worst matchup debate. For the time being, I'm convinced it's Marf (And I refuse to believe it's Snake )

 

[F1ZZ]

Ya that would be fun to debate Lucario's worst MU. I don't know thought who it would be? Either Marth, Metaknight, Snake i guess.

 

[phi1ny3]

Ratio numbers are pretty icky, especially if people are butthurt that it's not slightly in their advantage (55:45), which most people don't really know how to calculate, tbh. I agree that words work, although that MU chart being worked out needs those numbers, and it looks promising so far.
And people are forgetting D3 as one of those "worst" MUs.

 

[iRJi]

Let me tell you all something about MU numbers. They are all **** to follow. I have a philosophy that everyone should follow, and it works amazingly with Lucario.

Everything is 50:50. All you have to do is change the way you do things according to the matches you play, and also the person.

Lets face it, in a typical fighter game, there are strategies and different ways to play people. The way you would play one character or person would be different for another, keep that mindset and it will do you wonders. If you THINK of matchups in anyway, it will put a thought process in your mind that you are at a disadvantage, and because of that you will preform less then what you should be, even if you think it might not.

The reason why this works best with Lucario is because his worse matchups are not even hard to surpass. Learn the character weaknesses, and exploit them.

Edit: Come to the idea, we should add to the MU thread the weakspots of each character we play against. IE:

Marth is weak from below when in the air. etc, etc.
Doing this will make players keep in mind what to abuse and exploit in situations.

 

[Mirachael]

Everything is 50:50. All you have to do is change the way you do things according to the matches you play, and also the person.

Tell this to the Ganondorf/Falcon boards.

Lets face it, in a typical fighter game, there are strategies and different ways to play people. The way you would play one character or person would be different for another, keep that mindset and it will do you wonders. If you THINK of matchups in anyway, it will put a thought process in your mind that you are at a disadvantage, and because of that you will preform less then what you should be, even if you think it might not.

I agree with you here, but sometimes knowing you're at a disadvantage can benefit the player. I know when I face Marth/Snake/Metaknight, the knowledge of knowing my weaknesses against these characters makes me focus on the match more.

It also works the other way around though: knowledge of clear advantages could also lead to poor, spammy playing, which could then result in an embarrassing loss.

 

[phi1ny3]

tl;dr don't underestimate the opponent and try dumb stuff without a reason lol.

 

[Mirachael]

tl;dr don't underestimate the opponent and try dumb stuff without a reason lol.

I can drink to this.

 

[Alus]

Tell this to the Ganondorf/Falcon boards.

He is talking about the tourney viable of course...

I agree with you here, but sometimes knowing you're at a disadvantage can benefit the player.I know when I face Marth/Snake/Metaknight, the knowledge of knowing my weaknesses against these characters makes me focus on the match more.

forget this

It also works the other way around though. Knowledge of clear advantages could also lead to poor, spammy playing, which could then result in an embarrassing loss.

and this

 

[phi1ny3]

I want a example...

Overswarm
Sonic
Dtilt

Done :D
lolol

 

[Alus]

Overswarm
Sonic
Dtilt

Done :D
lolol

OMG lawl XD

 

[Mirachael]

@twoskilld4u: It was a poorly thought out stretch to make some discussion.

 

[Alus]

I wasn't trying to have a discussion I was just confused and wanted answers....

In case you haven't noticed yet I'm not exactly shrewd.
Just for future reference.

 

[RT]

Everything is 50:50. All you have to do is change the way you do things according to the matches you play, and also the person.

Good philosophy, but when there are INFINITES involved as they are in Brawl, this changes. You can argue all you want, but Dedede vs the characters that he can infinite are impossible matchups. The Dedede has to literally not know how to do something simple such as grab. And you will get grabbed. You know, unless you're playing against your dog or something. And even then...he'll touch the Z button eventually.

 

[Milln]

Good philosophy, but when there are INFINITES involved as they are in Brawl, this changes. You can argue all you want, but Dedede vs the characters that he can infinite are impossible matchups. The Dedede has to literally not know how to do something simple such as grab. And you will get grabbed. You know, unless you're playing against your dog or something. And even then...he'll touch the Z button eventually.

I just imagined a golden retriever puppy pawing at a gamecube controller trying to play. It was so cute. @@ He even made a "awruu?" noise.

 

[Vionce]

Good philosophy, but when there are INFINITES involved as they are in Brawl, this changes. You can argue all you want, but Dedede vs the characters that he can infinite are impossible matchups. The Dedede has to literally not know how to do something simple such as grab. And you will get grabbed. You know, unless you're playing against your dog or something. And even then...he'll touch the Z button eventually.

bowser still has a chance btw, all he has to do is koopacide 3 times :D

 

[RT]

bowser still has a chance btw, all he has to do is koopacide 3 times :D

Lol, indeed. If the Dedede somehow lets himself get Koopacided that many times, he is just plain dumb.

 

[phi1ny3]

Actually, I know Kevvviiinnn can give D3 a run for his money in several instances.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Good philosophy, but when there are INFINITES involved as they are in Brawl, this changes. You can argue all you want, but Dedede vs the characters that he can infinite are impossible matchups. The Dedede has to literally not know how to do something simple such as grab. And you will get grabbed. You know, unless you're playing against your dog or something. And even then...he'll touch the Z button eventually.

Luckily Lucci is not such a character. DDD is admittedly the only matchup I've felt like could be borderline unwinnable, but you still have some options.

If you're not dealing with unwinnable matchups, it's good philosophy to think of all of them as 50:50 at the moment you're actually playing them.

 

[Aurasmash14]

I just imagined a golden retriever puppy pawing at a gamecube controller trying to play. It was so cute. @@ He even made a "awruu?" noise.

I have really taught my dog to touch the A B and Z buttons... seriously. Being home alone at times means i have to improvise.


On the subject of matchups, Lucci really is fortunate to not have a stupidly **** matchup. It means in case your CP'ed your in trouble but still have a chance. Unlike say, DDD CP'ed with IC's or ROB CP'ed with MK.

 

[Ledge_g2]

does anyone know if Breversals mixed with DI are good for momentum cancelling?
for some reason i find it really hard to do when so far offstage.
do i have to use an aerial before i can use it?

thx XD...

 

[Alus]

EDIT:

Nevermind, gotcha.
>___________>

 

[phi1ny3]

Oh yeah, that thing...

 

[culexus・wau]

/Bored at 5 AM Post

So does anyone know what affects the momentum of Lucarios dair while in hitstun? [IE: where you can go flyinggggg away] there are sometimes when I get sent up where it makes me drop to the floor like a rock, and other times when I've soaaaaaared away and only the 1st part of it hit.

There are also some times right after momentum cancel/getting out of hitstun where dair still freefalls. :/ anyone got a fix on this?

 

[Alus]

What can you do If you Fair into a shield?

 

[Milln]

What can you do If you Fair into a shield?

Get hit/grabbed.

Keep going and bair immediatedly.

Keep going and jump.

 

[MikeSanti]

Is it possible to do a dair where the momentum does not stop?

ie I jump and dair and dair goes with the jumps momentum, doesn't stop lucario in place like a normal dair.

 

[phi1ny3]

only reliably in two scenarios:
-Getting hit and doing it immediately
-out of shield (only works when hit while shielding)
so essentially, as far as we know, it only works out of hitstun and shieldstun.

 

[Arty]

Hey guys. I just picked up Lucario and want to make him my secondary sometime in the future. I just got a few questions.

What are some good ways to approach? Right now my main approach is F-ar to N-air and when I land I do and U-tilt. I also approach with a single jump double F-air. Any other good approaches?

Is there any reliable kill setups with Lucario or is killing with him based off of predicting/mindgames?

What is the best way to handle Lucario's jabs? Do I finish the jab combo? Jab twice then grab? Jan twice then force palm? Something completely different I'm unaware of?

Sorry if these questions seem kind of stupid, I just picked Lucario up and need all the help I can get. Thanks

Edit: Woops accidentally posted on my brother's account. My smash tag is Quik