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Q&A thread ASK QUESTIONS HERE.

Fizzle_Boy

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
897
Location
Columbus, OH
If I'm sounding completely stupid, I'm sorry. I just found myself liking him recently and wanted to use him more XD. And I tend to spam the Aura Sphere (speaking of which, I'm guessing I could use the charged Aura Sphere as a mindgame tactic if I'm holding it?) and the awesome dair a lot in my brawls with him, and I want to know if there are much more efficient ways to use him.
I heard that the Lucario in brawl was supposed to be a female....unless I'm thinking of Ivysaur. Oh well, Lucario's standard aerial approach is the fair followed by a dair, nair, or reverse grab. On the ground, you've basically got Luc's jab and f-tilt to approach with (don't spam Fsmash). Fthrow can kill in the mid/high hundreds for most characters if you throw them before they have time to DI.
 

D. Disciple

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
4,202
Location
Cottage Grove, Minnesota
Hello Lucario users. I've got a couple of questions that I need to know, since I want to get better at Lucario.

I decided to use Lucario in a couple matches a few moments ago, and I realized that, to my knowledge, Lucario doesn't really have many options in approaching. His "low" air speed makes things kind of telegraphed in the air, and I never got anywhere from using ground approaches. Am I apporaching wrong? What are the most efficient ways to approach? Against G&W, Ike, Falco, and ROB, to name a few.
His main approach would be fair. It all depends on how you do it, you jump forward, send out a fair. Spacing it is dependable on what you're trying to set up or when you want the fair to come out. If you space out to nearly touch your opponent, then you want to DI away from them a bit so that only the aura hits them, if you want to get up close to them, then you want Lucario's foot in their body. Depending on what percent and how well you spaced, you then can go into a nair, a cross over nair meaning that you have the nair hit them from the back, so it gets the weak side of a shield and spaces you away from them a little bit. If you hit with the aura, then you can do a retreating nair, or if you hit with the whole foot, you can dair them immediately.

We also have a character match up discussion thread for how to approach the characters you requested, but it wouldn't hurt to give you some tips.

GaW - Bait them into coming to you, bait them to use their fair or bair, then you hit them with your dair once they land. If you get hit with bair don't worry just SDI away so you avoid the final hit, then capitalize with some jabs. If you can figure out their pattern, then I start to recommend to use your ftilts or dtilts, beware of immediate smashes if you mistime it or second guess yourself.

Ike - Don't try to fair them or you'll be getting fsmashed all day. Go for empty hops then jabs, abuse their retreating fair, with a roll towards them into ftilts, jabs, or this time you can actually get in a fair-nair-utilt string, then continue to carry him off with fair-nairs.

Also spamming bas works wonders too.

Falco - If you're good at perfect shielding, then you're half way there. Falco's will laser-phantasm camp, it's not that great but can be effective. You can either perfect shield the laser and keep approaching, or you can crawl under them. Either or, if you get too close they'll try to phantasm away. So what you want to do is negate that with a tilt. Dtilt is pretty fast at coming out, so pop that out when you see them get ready, worse thing to really happen is that they clash with the dtilt and go through you, but you won't get hurt for it. But if they do, they'll probably phantasm again to get a better positioning and if you're not fast enough to react then you will get hit. So this is what I like to do, since if you're dtilting, you can crouch and the joystick in the opposite direction, and dtilt in the direction you're facing, but the second the move is over, you'll face the other way. So you can spam another dtilt immediately that way.

I suck against ROB for some reason so I really can't give you tips on how to approach him. Maybe Rayku can fill you in on that.

Also, I noticed that Lucario's smash attacks are kind of slow, at least in startup. Is there a really good time to use his smashes, like out of a combo or any other time?
You can hit people with fsmash, it takes practice getting the timing down, you can hit them as well if they are coming from the edge, or if you know they'll survive the horizontal blast, you can surprise them with usmash if they try to jump from the edge as well. Just practice out the smashes, but if you want to use your smash attack out of combos. If you slightly hold fsmash after you did fair-nair and they aren't super light or floaty, it will them if they don't react quickly enough, assuming they will spot dodge cause they expect the fsmash to come out immediately, gives you a little mindgame boost. But what I like to do against Peach and other light characters after fair-nair cause they have very fast nairs that hit me before I can them again. I fastfall the nair, then go into a hyphen usmash. Works out pretty well.

Lastly, at what percentage does Lucario's throws kill? I know b-throw does not use Aura, so that calculation is out, but what about the other throws? Or are they even viable KO options for Lucario?
Bthrow does use aura lol, so does fthrow. Lucario's KO options are Aura Sphere, Fsmash, 100% nair, and 90% uair.

If I'm sounding completely stupid, I'm sorry. I just found myself liking him recently and wanted to use him more XD. And I tend to spam the Aura Sphere (speaking of which, I'm guessing I could use the charged Aura Sphere as a mindgame tactic if I'm holding it?) and the awesome dair a lot in my brawls with him, and I want to know if there are much more efficient ways to use him.
Utilize your jabs, cancel them into tilts, force palm if you don't think they'll dodge it or break out of it, grabs or do the 3 hit combo, if they are on the edge, jab cancel to dtilt then fair them to death is really fun.

And just out of curiosity, why did you guys decide to main Lucario anyway? Any reason besides the Aura property? Thanks a lot in advance
I picked up Lucario cause I have the most fun with him out of the other characters and fell in love with his kicks the first week I played the game. Since I could gimp my friend constantly with fair strings.



EDIT: ok, maybe I shouldn't have said his air speed was low. Looks about average upon looking at it again. I guess the high jump and long jump animations just made me think otherwise >_<
 

Vionce

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
326
Location
San Diego, CA
I decided to use Lucario in a couple matches a few moments ago, and I realized that, to my knowledge, Lucario doesn't really have many options in approaching. His "low" air speed makes things kind of telegraphed in the air, and I never got anywhere from using ground approaches. Am I apporaching wrong? What are the most efficient ways to approach? Against G&W, Ike, Falco, and ROB, to name a few.
Against those characters you really don't want to be approaching too much. They aren't pressured very easily (except maybe Ike) and Lucario's pressure game is not spectacular. Against Ike you really don't want to approach much. With good spacing Ike's bair, fair and nair can easily stop all approaches. You'll just have to make openings with AS or shield grab a mispaced aeiral.
And just out of curiosity, why did you guys decide to main Lucario anyway? Any reason besides the Aura property?
I main Lucario because he plays how I wish ganon played. Floaty with good aerials and a charge up ranged move.
EDIT: ok, maybe I shouldn't have said his air speed was low. Looks about average upon looking at it again. I guess the high jump and long jump animations just made me think otherwise >_<
He's pretty floaty and can't zone at all like wario or jigglypuff. That can make Lucario's air speed seem slow.
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
ugh why do people keep calling it a guide. It's original purpose was to just gauge effective punishing styles against different moves. I highly doubt people considered dsmash, usmash, iDA, etc. to be effective or even plausable punishers, or how some situations, you're given more effective options on the perfect shield, but against some moves they are.
Yeah, I've been looking into iDA's use and it's getting me only good results in terms of punishing.
Also, I think that lucario's air movement has been misused/misinterpreted as meh. When I did some more of what NEO called the "Hyperbolic Time Chamber", I found lucario's air movement pretty gewd. Is it jiggly's? No, but that's setting yourself up for a let-down anyways. I think one of the few really disadvantageous MUs that lucario gets ousted in horizontal movement capability is marth (MK, D3, Oli have much worst) and combining his floatiness (which is weird compared to his weight) makes for a somewhat different aerial game.
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
yup, my friend does it to me all the time T.T
However, you can usually get 1-2 FPs, after that you can buffer a walking jab to try "Close Combat" which can catch bigger characters by surprise and try landing a FP again oojabs (although dependent on DI), you can dash grab after then throw, or you can do aerial strings.
 

Aurasmash14

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
1,540
And just out of curiosity, why did you guys decide to main Lucario anyway? Any reason besides the Aura property?
I got it because I hated MK when i first played brawl, I got confused on how to play Snake I hated Falco's recovery (though i made him my 2nd later) and basically I wasnt very comfortable with everyone else. (this was back in june 2008) So I just lurked on smashboards and chose Lucario for the heck of it. I didnt like him either but he grew on me.
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
His main approach would be fair. It all depends on how you do it, you jump forward, send out a fair. Spacing it is dependable on what you're trying to set up or when you want the fair to come out. If you space out to nearly touch your opponent, then you want to DI away from them a bit so that only the aura hits them, if you want to get up close to them, then you want Lucario's foot in their body. Depending on what percent and how well you spaced, you then can go into a nair, a cross over nair meaning that you have the nair hit them from the back, so it gets the weak side of a shield and spaces you away from them a little bit. If you hit with the aura, then you can do a retreating nair, or if you hit with the whole foot, you can dair them immediately.
Fair enough. (lol pun)

We also have a character match up discussion thread for how to approach the characters you requested, but it wouldn't hurt to give you some tips.

GaW - Bait them into coming to you, bait them to use their fair or bair, then you hit them with your dair once they land. If you get hit with bair don't worry just SDI away so you avoid the final hit, then capitalize with some jabs. If you can figure out their pattern, then I start to recommend to use your ftilts or dtilts, beware of immediate smashes if you mistime it or second guess yourself.

Ike - Don't try to fair them or you'll be getting fsmashed all day. Go for empty hops then jabs, abuse their retreating fair, with a roll towards them into ftilts, jabs, or this time you can actually get in a fair-nair-utilt string, then continue to carry him off with fair-nairs.
fsmash? Really? I was thinking more jab/utilt/etc.
Also spamming bas works wonders too.

Falco - If you're good at perfect shielding, then you're half way there. Falco's will laser-phantasm camp, it's not that great but can be effective. You can either perfect shield the laser and keep approaching, or you can crawl under them. Either or, if you get too close they'll try to phantasm away. So what you want to do is negate that with a tilt. Dtilt is pretty fast at coming out, so pop that out when you see them get ready, worse thing to really happen is that they clash with the dtilt and go through you, but you won't get hurt for it. But if they do, they'll probably phantasm again to get a better positioning and if you're not fast enough to react then you will get hit. So this is what I like to do, since if you're dtilting, you can crouch and the joystick in the opposite direction, and dtilt in the direction you're facing, but the second the move is over, you'll face the other way. So you can spam another dtilt immediately that way.
Not something you should say in a MU thread, but this isn't a MU thread, and you will encounter these falcos, so I guess it's fair enough. High level falcos won't do this though.
I suck against ROB for some reason so I really can't give you tips on how to approach him. Maybe Rayku can fill you in on that.


You can hit people with fsmash, it takes practice getting the timing down, you can hit them as well if they are coming from the edge, or if you know they'll survive the horizontal blast, you can surprise them with usmash if they try to jump from the edge as well. Just practice out the smashes, but if you want to use your smash attack out of combos. If you slightly hold fsmash after you did fair-nair and they aren't super light or floaty, it will them if they don't react quickly enough, assuming they will spot dodge cause they expect the fsmash to come out immediately, gives you a little mindgame boost. But what I like to do against Peach and other light characters after fair-nair cause they have very fast nairs that hit me before I can them again. I fastfall the nair, then go into a hyphen usmash. Works out pretty well.


Bthrow does use aura lol, so does fthrow. Lucario's KO options are Aura Sphere, Fsmash, 100% nair, and 90% uair.
bthrow doesn't use aura, It'll get no aura multipliers for it, same with dthrow, dash attack, and getup attack.


Utilize your jabs, cancel them into tilts, force palm if you don't think they'll dodge it or break out of it, grabs or do the 3 hit combo, if they are on the edge, jab cancel to dtilt then fair them to death is really fun.



I picked up Lucario cause I have the most fun with him out of the other characters and fell in love with his kicks the first week I played the game. Since I could gimp my friend constantly with fair strings.
Stuff in red.
'Nuff said.
lol rhyme.
Look at the time!
 

Alus

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
2,539
Location
Akorn(Akron) OH
NNID
Starsauce
3DS FC
5327-1023-2754
Got a problem with that?
Lets settle this with swords!

We got this far I dare say bravo!
Lets hope the next post doesn't break this combo!
 

Aurasmash14

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
1,540
Lolwut more rhymes.

it seems were in for more interesting times.

(sorry if my rhyme isnt much
im too busy watching starsky and hutch)
 

F1ZZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
1,202
Location
Toronto, Canada
When will the rhymes end.
Because they are starting to become new trend.

(Im bad at rhyming just to let everyone know :))
 

AlexoftheAura

yaylatias.gif
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
4,491
Location
Bloomsburg, PA
NNID
AlexoftheAura
These rhymes will never stop
They're pleasent to the ear
They will bring Lucario boards to the top
Maybe even top tier
 

F1ZZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
1,202
Location
Toronto, Canada
Wow we have a poet.
He probably didn't even know it.

On a serious note, we should rhyming here since this is the question and answer thread. If we want to rhyme some more we should move it to the general chat thread.
 

Storm39

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
11
I haven't been able to settle on a secondary for Lucario. Who would you recommend to counter his weaknesses?

OTHER THAN META KNIGHT
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
Wow we have a poet.
He probably didn't even know it.

On a serious note, we should rhyming here since this is the question and answer thread. If we want to rhyme some more we should move it to the general chat thread.
Both your rhyme and your "note" were quite lame.
Let's continue doing this retardedly annoying game.
I haven't been able to settle on a secondary for Lucario. Who would you recommend to counter his weaknesses?

OTHER THAN META KNIGHT
The answer quite plainly is in your head.
CP against chars you (as a player) suck against instead. :D
Snake lol
That's quite a hot character, I'll give you that
but olimar still ***** him flat.
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
no, get better against the characters you suck at, CP against chars who technically **** your **** (as a character) up.
Timbers, if there's one thing that I think is an achille's heal in your thinking of this game and ever since anything was ever said in the lucario boards, it's taking a strictly analytical approach for this game. It's Brawl, nearly everything is punishable/escapable, that's why discouraging things that aren't 100% "reliable" is stupid. Not just for this, but other instances.
I do agree though, I wasn't thinking straight.
I liek D3 as an option, although lucario's bad matchups are pretty varied, MK sadly is prolly the best option, even though it isn't the answer the person was looking for.
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
Your consistent "doesn't work, shouldn't endorse" posts say otherwise.
why usmash oos, I guess it's okay, but you know how mean it is to talk usmash around me lol, you know I hate that move (although I've been liking it a little more in recent years).
 

Timbers

check me out
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
3,377
Location
hipster bay area
=|

pretty sure everything I've ever talked lowly of I was right on, lol. Unless you're telling me I single-handedly stunted Lucario's growth for a year.


usmash oos works as standard char's nair or bair to cover the back of them when opponents go behind him as Luc's nair and bair suck balls oos on grounded peeps. It's p. cool. Think it's like 8 frames slower than dropping shield into utilt but Lucario needs killers ok.
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
=|

pretty sure everything I've ever talked lowly of I was right on, lol. Unless you're telling me I single-handedly stunted Lucario's growth for a year.


usmash oos works as standard char's nair or bair to cover the back of them when opponents go behind him as Luc's nair and bair suck balls oos on grounded peeps. It's p. cool. Think it's like 8 frames slower than dropping shield into utilt but Lucario needs killers ok.
YES IT'S ALL UR FAULT!!!1!eleven!
NO U GOOD NIGHT I LIEK SLEEP!!!
EMO BRRRR PLAY BLAZBLUE!!

/dumb sarcastic late night response
did any1 c wat I did thur?
 

Aurasmash14

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
1,540
*Gasp* phil has just gotten crankier in recent posts... Ive seen just how long you stay up at night on smashboards phil.. your online late at night for the past2 weeks. lol get some sleep before you lose your head.

oh and nothing in brawl is 100% reliable except MK will always be top tier. Timbers you look at every situation like an ingenious strategist, not a gamer. dude live a little and take a few risks (though i still believe what you just said about picking a secondary) I bet once you get into a blazblue forum it will be all "doesnt work on experts" to " not really probable" lol.





Tager FTW.
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
YES IT'S ALL UR FAULT!!!1!eleven!
NO U GOOD NIGHT I LIEK SLEEP!!!
EMO BRRRR PLAY BLAZBLUE!!

/dumb sarcastic late night response
did any1 c wat I did thur?
No one saw that it was a crappy screamo haiku? (notice the 5-7-5 pattern) I lol'd, I was working on a college thing that kept me up late.
*Gasp* phil has just gotten crankier in recent posts... Ive seen just how long you stay up at night on smashboards phil.. your online late at night for the past2 weeks. lol get some sleep before you lose your head.

oh and nothing in brawl is 100% reliable except MK will always be top tier. Timbers you look at every situation like an ingenious strategist, not a gamer. dude live a little and take a few risks (though i still believe what you just said about picking a secondary) I bet once you get into a blazblue forum it will be all "doesnt work on experts" to " not really probable" lol.





Tager FTW.
Tager is cool.
Sleep is cool.
I was surprised anyone picked up my slight "annoyance" on my post. Although I certainly wasn't "pissed", although I was getting tired of the bland argument they kept giving, especially when I see Kita's wall of text and some other points I kept bringing up (and some other good posts too) and most would only say stuff that was almost "player error" in nature or even worst just state "Falco has the advantage" without stating why.
 

Timbers

check me out
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
3,377
Location
hipster bay area
Timbers you look at every situation like an ingenious strategist, not a gamer. dude live a little and take a few risks (though i still believe what you just said about picking a secondary) I bet once you get into a blazblue forum it will be all "doesnt work on experts" to " not really probable" lol.
why do people always think this about me.

brawl is a fighter not an RTS, why would i look at it from a strategical POV.


ok guys I'm asking a simple question now, why does everyone think I play super theory bros and/or cast everything away that isn't 100% reliable.
 

Aurasmash14

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
1,540
You said it yourself in the confession thread timbers......

Read your posts from last year timbuhz.. itsa all 100% accurate or bust posts, and you hated theory when unproven
 

Aurasmash14

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
1,540
Don't you remember RK jokers confession thread? it was probably his longest living one before it died on april26.
 

Roxas M

Smash Master
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
3,068
Location
Zane - Texas(aka Hell)
can anyone tell me some training methods for lucario?
i'm entering my first tournament in a week and i wanted to see if they're any ways to do some training in training mode or something like that.
for example: bengalsRZ's training videos + text in the marth boards.
 
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