Prop 8 overturned

[Jim Morrison]

You can't say both sides are right on this because that's pretty ********.

 

[soju]

The irony here is both sides on the subject have been pretty much close-minded [including myself] about this subject. We're nearly 200 posts in, can you name 5 posts that say that both sides are right in this thread?



Now that is just cold.

I don't call people immature if they do not agree with me . . . . . .

. . . I was pretty open-minded until people started being stupid in this thread. . .

This is a rather "touchy" subject if I might say and everyone has a right to an own opinion, you aren't going to change anyones mind by saying what they believe is wrong or inhumane, and this applies to both sides. Belief, when set in stone, is perhaps one of the hardest things to break, and trying to break those beliefs almost always ends in some kind of conflict. The best thing is to be open-minded and if you truly don't like what someone else believes, don't try and change them.

So let's all be friends have one big group hug :D

-picture of a really hot trap-
I would hit it.

That's just cold man, you just made everyone question there sexuality. . . lol

 

[Today]

Wow. I didn't realize how many people were against gay marriage...
I guess I can't be surprised, though.
I always felt, hey do what you like to do. If someone is gay let them be gay. Is it honestly bothering you or me? I mean some guy in Cali likes to have fun with other guys, that's not affecting my life.
Let him be happy.
Why do people feel the need to judge? Or just be bullies? Race, sexuality, religion, etc. I'll never understand why people can't just live their lives and do what they want to do. As long as they're not killing all the females to take all the males, I don't see any problem with it. Like I said, someone's race, religion, or whatever isn't making my life a complete mess. I'm just causing trouble for myself if I'm putting myself in said situation and trying to make them unhappy or insulting them. I have no reason to do that. No need to. They never bothered me.

 

[Luigitoilet]

The irony here is both sides on the subject have been pretty much close-minded [including myself] about this subject. We're nearly 200 posts in, can you name 5 posts that say that both sides are right in this thread?



Now that is just cold.

I don't call people immature if they do not agree with me . . . . . .

Yeah, but your viewpoint on this is shallow, bigoted and very hurtful. This is like saying "Yeah I don't like black people and think they shouldn't be able to marry, but you non-racists are being close-minded for not considering my belief as correct!"

Nobody has said "both sides are right" because, in fact, that isn't true. One side is wrong. I think the vast majority of the thread will agree with me.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Opinions can't be wrong, but they can be dumb and illogical.

 

[M.K]

They can't be "dumb" opinions. You can respectfully view said opinion as "dumb", but in itself, the opinion is not dumb. They can be illogical, yes, but to say that an opinion is dumb is the exact same as saying it's wrong, or the person is dumb for thinking that way.

"I think gay marriage should be allowed" is the exact same "dumb" opinion to somebody who says "I think gay marriage should be disallowed".

 

[Teran]

Why don't we all just hold hands and skip off into the sunset?

No really, opinions can be stupid. Tolerance is no fun, progress only comes from mutual agreement.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Well, I guess, in the sense that there is no universal right or wrong but then you could say that Nazi-ism isn't "wrong" or anal sex is "wrong". At that point it's just words.

 

[Pink Reaper]

They can't be "dumb" opinions. You can respectfully view said opinion as "dumb", but in itself, the opinion is not dumb. They can be illogical, yes, but to say that an opinion is dumb is the exact same as saying it's wrong, or the person is dumb for thinking that way.

"I think gay marriage should be allowed" is the exact same "dumb" opinion to somebody who says "I think gay marriage should be disallowed".

Someone recently told me that it was their opinion that the reason the Obama administration was faltering was because he started the war in Iraq.

Opinions can be VERY dumb.

Also lets stop talking about how ******** UberMario is and get back to the matter at hand, which is Prop 8 finally being overturned.

 

[Teran]

I don't believe in right or wrong anyway, well when it comes from a moral point of view.

 

[Firus]

Now that is just cold.

I don't call people immature if they do not agree with me . . . . . .

Um...when did he call anyone immature? He said "uninformed", "intolerant", and "pseudo-brainwashed".

Not exactly sunny and happy, but still, don't put words in his mouth.

Opinions can't be wrong, but they can be dumb and illogical.

Yeah this.

Someone recently told me that it was their opinion that the reason the Obama administration was faltering was because he started the war in Iraq.

Opinions can be VERY dumb.

Dear god.

I literally facepalmed at that.

 

[Kofu]

The problem is that was all proposition 8 was based on.

It isn't good to make laws that merely follow a religious text without any logical reasoning supplied. That's not what america is about.

True, though I have logical (to me) reasoning that comes from a belief standpoint. And America is about having your views applied; that's what our democratic republic is for. And though I don't feel that my beliefs will keep much hold in the public's heart for long, I'll sure fight for them. (I really hope no one takes this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be mean to anybody)

America is a secular nation by definition.

And I sure hope you don't eat shellfish.

The largest religious population is, however, Christian. And I honestly don't understand the second statement, so I'll ignore it.

I saw this on Family Guy but there was episode where (forgot how that dog was relatated to Brian) this dog wanted to get married and Brian wanted the wedding to be held at the Griffin's house. Lois was okay with gay people but disliked the fact that they wanted to get married because she saw it wrong and that marriage is between a man and a woman. She later realized that two people can absolutely hate each other and can still get married so why can't a gay couple who are in love get married too?

tl;dr
gay people should have the right to marry. i'm glad this was repealed.

As others have said, marriage hasn't always been for love (though I am in favor of it being for love). And frankly, they do have the right to marry--just not to someone of their own sex.

Oh, and Ubermario makes me sad I know it's a bad thing of me to say but it really sickens me (should I say depresses me?) when people can be closed-minded about things like this. Mostly due to my parents being incredibly closed-minded and religious. I just can't fathom the idea that people see gay people wrong and that them getting married is even more wrong.

Will address this with my response to Vrael's post...

Why?

Short answer: religion. However, I ask you to find me a culture that has allowed homosexual marriages (not relationships) preceding the last few decades or so. I don't know much historically about the subject, so if there are any, I'd be glad to know, but I'm willing to bet that there aren't any.

Being gay is not a choice. How is them living with a partner any different from you living with a girlfriend?

See, I'm against non-married heterosexual couples living together too.

This is true for heterosexuals also. You can decide what type of person you are attracted to.

I did mention heterosexual couples in that, did I not?

God doesn't determine the laws of this country.

Ah, but in my mind, I feel it would be better if he did.

All in all I want you people to see that homosexuals really aren't much different from anyone else. If you were being told you couldn't marry someone you love, how would you feel? If the government finally allowed it but people still thought it shouldn't happen, despite the fact that it in no way whatsoever affects them, how would you feel?

I'm quite aware that they're not really different from others. I should probably look up exactly what marriage does nowadays, because it seems to me as if it's simply a way to make relationships seem more appropriate and official. So many things that were formerly only proper for married couples can now be done with very few social repercussions outside of marriage.

 

[UberMario]

Um...when did he call anyone immature? He said "uninformed", "intolerant", and "pseudo-brainwashed".

GoldShadow: "uninformed, intolerant, and pseudo-brainwashed twelve year olds on the internet."

At the same time he posted what you refer to.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

America is secular, stop bringing religion into this. It's an invalid reason to back up your argument. But if you want to use religion, let me propose something: if God truly did not want gays to be married and all, why would he make them in the first place?

Uber, I know 12 year olds who are more mature than most.

 

[Kofu]

It's a trial for them.
I'm sure my views are entirely different from yours, and I have nothing against you for that. I'd just prefer that gays not be allowed to marry.

And I'm quite aware that religion is an invalid method of reasoning; it's simply the reason that I feel the way I do. I'm a bad debater.

 

[UberMario]

Uber, I know 12 year olds who are more mature than most.

Sad but true, it doesn't exactly have a positive connotation when used as a description for someone, though.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

It's a trial for them.
I'm sure my views are entirely different from yours, and I have nothing against you for that. I'd just prefer that gays not be allowed to marry.

And I'm quite aware that religion is an invalid method of reasoning; it's simply the reason that I feel the way I do. I'm a bad debater.

You views are your views, I understand.

I just never understood why people are so against gay marriage when it doesn't affect them.

 

[GoldShadow]

In UberMario's defense, what I said did imply a level of immaturity (assuming he's older than twelve).

I should have said fourteen- or fifteen-year old.

Either way, what gave me the impression of immaturity was your choice of words in discussing the issue early in the thread:

It just extremely disturbs me, especially since it, at least when it comes to males, eventually will probably imply that they will . . . . well . . . . I'm not going to say, but you probably know what I mean when it comes to sex.

No, but, as someone had said on another site, "the parts fit for a reason", my real reason for hating it is the sex implications, and the fact that people sometimes not use the "default" (if you know what I mean) kind it's very offputting to me

I have a similar standpoint with drugs, if one of my friends started to take, erm, stuff (I don't mind beer or wine drinkers at all) I'd most likely not stick around them much longer if I knew.

The way you talk about sex, anal and homosexual intercourse, drugs, etc. suggests that you are either a) young, b) sheltered, or c) a combination of the two.

 

[UberMario]

Is it not ok for me to feel uncomfortable about such subjects? There are some people that prefer to avoid them.

 

[Kofu]

And frankly, I don't really care about learning the exact actions that go on during homosexual sex. It's not one of my interests, and I probably would have spoken in a similar manner as UberMario had I brought up the topic.

 

[TigerWoods]

Is it not ok for me to feel uncomfortable about such subjects? There are some people that prefer to avoid them.

The only reason I use euphamisms at all is because this site tends to replace the words with asterisks. If you have the choice to say what you mean with two words or to say the same in an entire paragraph... Choose the 2 word answer.

And frankly, I don't really care about learning the exact actions that go on during homosexual sex. It's not one of my interests, and I probably would have spoken in a similar manner as UberMario had I brought up the topic.

Homosexual sex isn't that much different from heterosexual sex. There isn't any secrets, tricks, or mysterious pleasure zones. Use your head.

 

[Jim Morrison]

It's a trial for them.

HAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

It's a trial for them.

HAHAHAHAHAHA OH WOW STOP IT

trial

Doesn't sound like your typical WoW trial. Why does God make people that starve to death and endure decades of physical exhausition like that?

It's a trial for them.

Okay you convinced me that this is the reason gay people should not be allowed to marrry.

btw not all homo's like sex just saying

 

[Kofu]

Clearly you don't understand the principles of my religion.

But, if I may offer an old adage of sorts:
"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger."

It's kind of like that.

 

[TigerWoods]

Unfortunately... in certain areas... including my own CITY... being gay in public WILL KILL YOU.

Edit: My adage....

"What doesn't kill you the first time may kill you the second time around instead...."

 

[Jim Morrison]

In the end those suffering people will die while being exhausted and starved to death their whole life. This means heaven they would get a better place than us, who don't have ****ty lives? If I actually believed in heaven, I'd feel cheated out and would love to starve my whole life to get a better spot in heaven because I endured my trial

Don't you envy the people in Africa, Kofu?

 

[Kofu]

That's not how it works, and no, I feel sorry for those in Africa, not having the opportunity to learn and truly have options in life.

But this is turning into a religious discussion, and that's not what Proposition 8 is about. All I stated was that my religion is the reason for my beliefs, and I really didn't want it to go further than that.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Proposition 8 is all about religious dickwads wanting to force their beliefs upon others who don't give a ****.

 

[TigerWoods]

That's not how it works, and no, I feel sorry for those in Africa, not having the opportunity to learn and truly have options in life.

But this is turning into a religious discussion, and that's not what Proposition 8 is about. All I stated was that my religion is the reason for my beliefs, and I really didn't want it to go further than that.

If religion is the reason for your beliefs, and your beliefs are the reason for your support of Proposition 8... then would that mean that according to you... that is what Proposition 8 is about?

Correct me if I'm mistaken(I am not being sarcastic).

 

[Tom]

Relax buddy

 

[Kofu]

If religion is the reason for your beliefs, and your beliefs are the reason for your support of Proposition 8... then would that mean that according to you... that is what Proposition 8 is about?

Correct me if I'm mistaken(I am not being sarcastic).

From a technical standpoint, Proposition 8 isn't about religion; it's about a secular ceremony for the joining of two estates of people of the same gender. But yes, for me, it certainly does have a religious connotation.

Good point.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Why would anyone oppose the marriage of gay people other than personal beliefs? That's all this is about.

 

[Kofu]

Why would anyone be for the marriage of gay people other than personal beliefs? That's all this is about.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Because I don't care what other people do as long as it doesn't affect me and my life-style. So I'll just let them do what they enjoy.

 

[Wrath`]

Why would anyone be for the marriage of gay people other than personal beliefs? That's all this is about.

I have a question, if gay's could have all the same rights of married people but have their unity called something other than marriage, would you be fine with it?

I have just wondered why they need it to be called marriage, I am all for their rights, but if they could get by this with a name change, why not go for it?

 

[Kofu]

Similarly, I do care what other people do if it affects others in an adverse way. Your statement seems to imply you're fine with murder as long as it doesn't happen to anyone related to you.

Though gays marrying may not do anything to me, I don't agree with it, and since this is America, I'll try to ensure that it can't happen. Here, at least.

 

[OFY]

Because I don't care what other people do as long as it doesn't affect me and my life-style. So I'll just let them do what they enjoy.

How does it not effect you? The validity of marriage is questioned if gay marriage becomes legal.


Please don't bring up the "love" argument, one of the most ridiculous arguments I ever heard.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

This is America, which is a free country.

In a free country, a country in which we pride ourself in being free, why do we say "no, you gays are not allowed to get married, but the rest of us are"?

Ophy so now marriage isn't "valid" if gays can do it too? Who cares about the spiritual validity of marriage, spirituality should have nothing to do with this discussion.

 

[TigerWoods]

I have a question, if gay's could have all the same rights of married people but have their unity called something other than marriage, would you be fine with it?

I have just wondered why they need it to be called marriage, I am all for their rights, but if they could get by this with a name change, why not go for it?

That would most likely follow the whole "seperate but equal" thing. Which has failed...

Quite honestly I don't think changing the name would solve anything... even if homosexuals were granted all the perks to marriage.

The real problem is the bigotry and prejudice.

Similarly, I do care what other people do if it affects others in an adverse way. Your statement seems to imply you're fine with murder as long as it doesn't happen to anyone related to you.

Though gays marrying may not do anything to me, I don't agree with it, and since this is America, I'll try to ensure that it can't happen. Here, at least.

Sure. I agree with you that you should care what other people do if it affects others in adverse ways. But gay marriage does not affect you in any adverse way...

I still do not understand your "it would appear to be that you are fine with murder," concept.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Similarly, I do care what other people do if it affects others in an adverse way. Your statement seems to imply you're fine with murder as long as it doesn't happen to anyone related to you.

No because murders makes me feel threatened that I can be murdered. How does gay marriage affect your life personally?

 

[TigerWoods]

How does it not effect you? The validity of marriage is questioned if gay marriage becomes legal.


Please don't bring up the "love" argument, one of the most ridiculous arguments I ever heard.

Just curious here... what is so ridculous about the love argument?