Project M Social Thread

[MuBa]

I'll be sad if Roy doesn't return e.e
Can't Roy be added as an update after this is released?..

Yea that'd be really nice to see Roy in P:M.

 

[GHNeko]

Manchu gets no love?

I SECOND THIS COMMENT WITH EVERYTHING IN MY BODY, HEART, AND SOUL.

MANCHU FOR P:M plz.

 

[Rikana]

I lol'd at your sig neko. I'm sad I missed that.

 

[Crispy4001]

http://twitter.com/dantarion

 

[bleyva]

dude, no way..........GREEN SHOES!?!?!?!?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

The last several tweets there are so good.

 

[Luxor]

Considering that Roy and Mewtwo are already essentially made... They'll just need balancing, which is relatively simple. Most people wouldn't even care if they were on the same level as Fawks, as long as they're THERE.

 

[ManEg]

Does anyone know what version of Brawl GameWatching was playing in the Yoshi's Story Demo? It seemed like PM at first, with the new attack animations on the spacies; but then I saw some BAD'ing, just curious...

 

[AeonClock]

I don't see the point of bringing Roy back unless he has a new moveset. Balancing him would essentially make him Marth .______.

 

[Luxor]

The preexisting Roy PSA already gave him an interesting new mechanic. The hilt is still the strongest, but the tipper drags opponents in. Pretty legit imo.

 

[Rikana]

Does anyone know what version of Brawl GameWatching was playing in the Yoshi's Story Demo? It seemed like PM at first, with the new attack animations on the spacies; but then I saw some BAD'ing, just curious...

He probably has the .pac files but doesn't have the .gct file containing Melee stuff.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

The preexisting Roy PSA already gave him an interesting new mechanic. The hilt is still the strongest, but the tipper drags opponents in. Pretty legit imo.

That is actually really legit. I'm looking it up now.

+1 Support for bringing back Roy!

 

[Luxor]

I haven't actually played that Roy, but it sounds perfect. Our same old boi with new gimmicks to keep him up to date. The "suck in" mechanic might not help much with his crouch cancelling problem though, but that's a balance issue a quick knockback buff could fix.

 

[Archangel]

I don't see the point of bringing Roy back unless he has a new moveset. Balancing him would essentially make him Marth .______.

I said something like that earlier.

The preexisting Roy PSA already gave him an interesting new mechanic. The hilt is still the strongest, but the tipper drags opponents in. Pretty legit imo.

that combined with a few new things would be pretty legit. Someone should test that out.

 

[genkaku]

It's not like the devs are going to give us something that sucks.
Have some faith. If Roy makes it in and through PMBR he'll play fine, no?

[edit]
By the way, what's going on in Dant's pic with mario and 3 DKs? I'm not quite seeing the significance.

 

[Archangel]

I'll play-test for roy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl2sjOqaU2s

My Roy is

Spoiler

Terrible!

sooooooo good

@Genkaku Look at the bottom of the picture. Thats all I'm gonna say.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'll play-test for roy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl2sjOqaU2s

My Roy is

Spoiler

Terrible!

sooooooo good

@Genkaku Look at the bottom of the picture. Thats all I'm gonna say.

That Link needs to learn to CC.

 

[Archangel]

That Link needs to learn to CC.

Ultimascout's link is legit. This was just recorded late at night. we recorded a bunch of matches between 3-5 AM.

My Roy on the other hand is bad no matter what time it is.

 

[[TSON]]

It's not like the devs are going to give us something that sucks.
Have some faith. If Roy makes it in and through PMBR he'll play fine, no?

[edit]
By the way, what's going on in Dant's pic with mario and 3 DKs? I'm not quite seeing the significance.

look at the character HUD icons

 

[El Raspa]

look at the character HUD icons

Is a concept test? Is he testing what changes he can make?

 

[Jonas]

I actually think the character HUD images in Brawl was a nice touch, lol. If you're gonna remove them, at least put in character icons instead of the generic stock icons

 

[GP&B]

I don't think they're going to remove them. A nice (and needed) feature for the HUD was put in Brawl so that they become transparent when a character overlaps them.

I would like to see the stock icons change though. I suggested the much more appropriate Smash icon since I doubt that Brawl will allow or coordinate individual stock icons. The character icons themselves do exist in the single-player mode (but only when selecting your stock count before Classic mode or when you have back-up characters in the SSE).

 

[Rion]

We have recently started discussing the TLC that Zelda needs and are playing around with some options.

When we get something solidified I will post some details here. In the meantime, if you were going to improve Melee Zelda, what would you do?

Wow, this is a pretty big question that I'd love to discuss actually. I played Zelda in Melee, but I only really got competitive with Smash during the Brawl era. But I'll do the best I can.

A rundown of all her moveset:

Jab
It was alright... though I'm pretty sure the one from Brawl+ would supercede this one in every way. Funny this is called Jab 'cause really her Dtilt is more of a jab if anything.

I feel like for a "glass cannon" character, her jab actually deals pretty low damage for the startup (5~6% / Hits on frame 11) especially since it's not really link-able into another one in most situations.

Ftilt
In Melee I'm pretty sure this was pretty "blah". Nothing that great about it really. Slow start up and pretty sure it had a lot of afterlag too. Terrible on shield.

It had some pretty crazy follow ups in B+, but only at low-ish%. Some people who suffered from high hitstun could get comboed into Ftilt > Uair > Death if you did it fast enough but they had to be at a really specific %.

I think the B+ ver. of Ftilt is pretty acceptable. Though it seems to be stuck in limbo between KO-esque move VS combo/set-up starter. Once you get into moderately higher percents the knockback becomes big enough to make followup impossible, but low enough so it doesn't KO until pretty late. I feel like Zelda has more than enough KO moves in her arsenal, and perhaps Ftilt should be geared towards something like a shield pressuring move or something. I feel like this is a move that could really be changed to make her moveset a lot more versatile/varied.

The biggest longshot I could see to change it could be something like... increasing it's range, faster IASA so that Fsmash isn't almost always better to use in almost every situation not to mention safer(Fsmash and Ftilt have identical IASA, frame 40).

Something to make it not suck on shields!

Fsmash
If only it wasn't so ridiculously escape-able in Melee... but other than that part, it was actually one of her better moves, if not one of her best. Let's just not think about how Jigglypuff could crouch cancel > Rest her arm or something like that...

B+ pretty much solved the issues with this one. I think for now this is good as the B+ ver.

Dtilt
In Melee... uh, I just remember CPU Zeldas being really good at timing these out of nowhere, lol. It was kind of a funny meteor if you hit someone on the ledge I guess...? There wasn't that much utility on this one.

Concerning B+, I think as a "jab" this is pretty nice. Basically use this for grounded opponents and her actual Jab for aerial/further ones.

The difference though is this "jab" leads into some pretty mean followups (at least in B+). It was a really nice combo/setup starter.

I actually found this move an essential staple for Zelda... though I know there may have been issues with balancing it or something. Though I find it's pros/cons seem to be pretty balanced. Low, shallow range but great damage-racking/combo capabilities.

This feels like a stay with move to me.

Dsmash
Oh Lord, a move that actually was decent in Melee. Fast startup, decent knockback plus wickedly scary angle and I think it's cooldown was actually shorter than in Brawl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlOK6EgFgUY#t=4m46s). One of the few Zelda moves in Melee that was good.

Of course in B+ and all, this was pretty much maintained. Fast (frame 4, faster than Dtilt!), can lead to some silly damage (The front kick hitting the opponent backward into the 2nd kick is pretty hilarious, albeit hard to replicate often) pretty much a great GTFO move.

Of course it is balanced by having pretty long afterlag and being terrible on shields.

I don't see any reason to change this form the B+ version. Seems pretty alright to me.

Utilt
Melee ver. of this was actually a better KO move than Usmash if I remember... but other than that I dunno.

B+ ver., it has a nice lingering hit box with KO-power rivaling Snake's Utilt even... though it, wayyy less range and slower startup/cooldown. I remember someone also saying basically this was kind of a Bowser Utilt but worse in every way.

I like how this potentially has better KO power than Usmash 'cause Usmash already has a lot of good things going for it and it'd be nice to give more utility to her Utilt.

I remember a suggestion to make her Utilt knock back angle 90 degrees or something... making it very hard to survive DI wise compared to her USmash, but obviously riskier and harder to hit with and pull off because of it's slower speed and Usmash is a lot easier to do out of a run.

Usmash
Suffered from escape-able syndrome in Melee, but other than that would be decent-ish.

B+ had the notorious tendency to not be able to decide what kind of move they wanted Usmash to be. It was literally changed every set it seemed like 'cause it was either too combo-able, too powerful or both.

I mean, it's a great move as it can catch air dodges pretty easily because of it's extremely long lasting hitbox, not to mention can juggle at lower percents pretty easily too. But it's horrendous on shields (she seems to have this problem often... which is one of her most glaring flaws).

I actually don't know what people will want to do with this one... Usmash on paper seems a lot better to use in almost every situation you'd want to use Utilt, except Usmash has slightly less killing power. Hmm...

Maybe make Usmash the combo-move and Utilt the KO one?

Nair
In Melee, I think the best thing about it was SHFFLC-ing it so that only the first few hitboxes hit the opponent so that you could follow up with something while they were in the hitstun... not completely sure about this one though.

B+ Nair was a nice damage racker... and also could be maybe used in the same way as in Melee. Though it sucks again shield (Surpriseee).

More shieldstun or something?

Fair/Bair
Basically were much more versatile in Melee because it was like 10% for sourspot (compared to the pitiful 4%~ Brawl ones do, which is less than 1/2 the damage) so even if you whiffed, you'd at least be racking up decent damage. To put it in perspective...

- 10 whiffed kicks in Melee would deal 70~80%.
- 10 whiffed kicks in Brawl would deal 30~40%.

That's kind of a big difference.

Plus if I remember correctly, the sourspot kicks have more knockback in Melee than in Brawl I believe so it was also safer for her to sourspot without getting counterattacked as easily... but don't quote me on that one. I believe it could get to a point where if they were high % enough, it would send them into a spiral tumble or something if you sourspotted.

Melee kicks were also easier to aim as well if I remember. As long as the sweetspot hitbox overlaps onto an opponent's hurtbox, it would sweetspot despite other hitboxes hitting the opponent (her F/Bair has like 4 hitboxes or something). But in Brawl, only the sweetspot hitbox was allowed to overlap the opponent's hurtbox for it to sweetspot, which means if any other parts of the F/Bair are hitting the opponent despite the sweetspot hitting, it would sourspot.

There was also the issue of Brawl F/Bair being lame and doing the freezeframe thing if you hit shield... that just sucked.

The only upside for Melee F/Bair to Brawl F/Bair is her sweetspots got more powerful, going from 15%~18%ish to 20% with extra knockback or something. But the overall utility of her Melee ver. of F/Bair, it's pretty obvious Melee wins out.

Dair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIJv7cCq-jM#t=4m22s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIJv7cCq-jM#t=5m41s

Those are some pretty fun examples of her Melee Dair (Wow that just showered me in nostalgia).

The only thing I remember about Dair being good is the Melee sourspot being better than the Brawl sourspot. I'm actually not so sure about how good the sweetspot Dair is in Melee.

I do however hope that sweetspot Dair is turned into a true spike or something... if it isn't already.

Uair
Melee Uair was weird... slow to come out and the animation was extremely deceiving with low knockback (could barely kill at all). But it did have some small combo-ability it seems...

Uair in Brawl was the strongest Uair in the game I believe. But it's utility was dampened with the way air dodges worked. With Melee Airdodge though... I think it's gonna get a lot more crazy.

I'm pretty sure this move is alright the way it is for now as the Brawl/B+ version.

=====

Too tired now to type up the rest... maybe tomorrow or something. Sorry for the long winded post (changes and edits probably to come later too).

 

[Dantarion]

I break this thread with C-C-C-twitpic
http://opensa.dantarion.com/wiki/Clone_Engine_Data
I'm getting closerrr

 

[kaizo13]

^

idk wtf all that is but...looks like win

 

[Sora-kun]

Are we really going to let all of Dantarion's hard work be wasted by just adding in Mewtwo? That must have taken a lot of work to make so i say we should make the most of it.

We Like Roy!
/wrongchar

 

[Revven]

Does anyone know what version of Brawl GameWatching was playing in the Yoshi's Story Demo? It seemed like PM at first, with the new attack animations on the spacies; but then I saw some BAD'ing, just curious...

GW didn't make the video soooooo it's not P:M.

 

[shanus]

It looks to be using a partial or full melee falco.pac in brawl environment

 

[OverLade]

OHHHH MMMYYY GOOOODDDDDDDD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtZA5RGt8vU

 

[Jonas]

LOL for a while there I actually thought I was looking at Melee. Something seemed... wrong though

 

[Wind Owl]

Boundaries are way off.

 

[Jonas]

The description says it's not done yet.

 

[Stevo]

oh, we are actually supposed to be talking about zelda buffs.

In that case, beyond the obvious things I mentioned before (better grab, better b moves ala brawl, keep the melee heel kicks) I'm not sure she really needs much else.

She was completely defensive in melee, but had no way to force an approach. Quick/good side-b fireball fixes that (sort of). The other problem was her punishable up-b recovery, which was also mostly fixed in brawl.

Perhaps her dash attack could be more like Peach's dash attack (as in, a little quicker), but Im not sure that it's necessary. It would allow her to threaten someone outside of the reach of her heel kick, but too close to use side-b. AKA disjointed hitbox abusers like Marth would have to worry about the run attack a little bit.


so to sum up

Characters cant run away as well and spam projectiles because of her improved side-b

characters like marth or even fox cannot just stand outside of kick range and wait for zelda to do something then either grab/Fair whatever because of improved dash attack.

and people can't just grab the ledge when she is recovering then run and up smash when she lands on stage because of the explosion after her up-b and it being a little faster.

 

[SonioNineteen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtZA5RGt8vU

Brawl Air dodge? At 0:15

I thought that was removed in Project M

 

[Stevo]

I'm pretty sure that video is to show off the yoshi story stage, everything else might not be accurate.

 

[JCaesar]

It was removed. That match is not using the Project M codeset.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'm in full support of Roy, I loved him back in the day, if at all possible we should bring back every melee character that was removed.


Also, Manchu would rock.

 

[Stevo]

Doc seems un-necessary since Mario will be a mix with some of Doc's strong points. If Mario has Doc's Cape, Bair, and Fair (sort of), and his fireballs are affected by gravity a bit more like pills, what would Doc be needed for? Yes he has other moves that were different but those are the main ones.
Maybe Doc could just be a costume change (and fireballs look like pills, if that would be at all possible)

Either Toon link or young link should exist, not both.

Pichu was just a bad pikachu and would have to be re-invented to be worth including. Might as well use Manchu or Raichu.

Roy and Mewtwo are pretty unique (especially mewtwo) and deserve to be brought back. Like it was stated, Roy has a unique "pull in" tipper property that could be added. and Mewtwo should have been in brawl in the first place.

I think everyone agrees, Mewtwo/Roy are the ones who deserve to be brought back if possible.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Roy is just as much of a clone as the rest of them. He had a "gimmick" (strong close hits (and fire)) to differentiate him from the original character (strong tipper hits) just like the rest of the clones did. I'm not necessarily arguing against him, but I don't think he "deserves" to be brought back any more than the other clones do.

Mewtwo, being a unique non-clone character with an original moveset, deserves it more than any of them.

 

[Stevo]

what about all the reasons I gave why the other DONT deserve it as much?

they dont count cause they dont support your opinion?


look im fine with different opinions, but at least address what I said, even if its just

"OMG i love Zelda series so much, it deserves to have 300 characters in smash"