Project M Social Thread

[Supreme Dirt]

Wait, Flame Choke was reverted to Gerudo?
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No...

 

[TLMSheikant]

taj is an amazing player. mewtwo is a ****ty character.

everybody loves mewtwo, but how many people actually use him seriously?

THIS. Mewtwo sux -_-.

 

[ds22]

But who says Mewtwo will stay suckish when in PM?

 

[Revven]

Wait, Flame Choke was reverted to Gerudo?
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...
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No...

It wasn't... Sterowent isn't a developer therefore you should take what he says with a grain of salt. Even if something is correct, always take what someone says based off observation and or speculation with a grain of salt.

is kirbys 64 nair final? or will the animation be adjusted? because right now it looks so stupid lol

also when i played a month ago at sny i tried some ics, and the normal desynchs arent working anymore (rolling, spotdodging, buffereing while in hitstun etc), will you be able to recreate that?

1) No it's not final, we're going to keep it but the animation will be changed at some point. You (and this goes for everyone else) have to realize that BrawlBox animating isn't the best animation application out there, it's extremely tedious work and can take hours to make an animation look good possibly days to a week to make it look polished and professional. So realize that the animations for new moves either aren't finished if they don't look good or were made to the best of our ability.

2) Don't know. ICs at this point are probably going to remain unchanged for awhile (aside from physics) because they are the most troublesome character to work with. Not only because of Nana but because of how intricate they are and their grab game. So asking anything about them at this point in time is moot because we're not even focused on them right now.

 

[Archangel]

taj is an amazing player. mewtwo is a ****ty character.

everybody loves mewtwo, but how many people actually use him seriously?

If you go back 4 years. Replace Taj with King and you have the same arguements people made for puff in those days. today she's considered the best in melee though. Even though there isn't an overflow of players still. I mean how many good Puff players outside of Hungrybox and Mango are really so amazing with Puff? 1.....2......?

Taj isn't the only good mewtwo player he just happens to be the best. Iori has also had lots of success with mewtwo as well. There are some up and coming players that are pretty good too.

they show what Mewtwo is capable of doing. The Same way Axe is showing what Pikachu can do. The fact that few others can play those characters like that simply means is more difficult to master those character. Doesn't mean they are ****ty characters. It means we are ****ty Mewtwo player. If you master Characters like Mewtwo, Ganon, Mario...etc you can have a decent amount of success rivaling that of top tiers.

On the other hand, Mastering characters like Roy or Pichu is great and all. The difference being that even at the highest level characters like Roy and Pichu are still beatable by mediocre or less than mediocre players. They're skills at the highest possible level aren't enough to overcome natural weaknesses while characters like Mewtwo and Pikachu can.

 

[stingers]

mewtwo should:
1. not get punished for landing side b (make it force a techchase or something)
2. his down b should work when you hit someones back
3. speed up ftilt a lot
4. make him heavier why is he so ****ing light

and i'd be happy with him personally

 

[FrozenHobo]

well, then its a **** shame that its already been decided to keep lucario.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Thank god it's still Flame Choke.

As to hitlag, are you going for Melee's functional, Brawl's cinematic, or a balance between the two? I remember reading something about it being reverted purely back to Melee's, and if so, that's great.

Just what aspects of Brawl that are unique to it, aside from movesets, are for certain being kept? I would assume worst case scenario it'll have Brawl landing detection if you can't find a way to fix it.

 

[stingers]

well, then its a **** shame that its already been decided to keep lucario.

lol, someone is really trying too hard...I never said you should replace lucario

 

[ds22]

well, then its a **** shame that its already been decided to keep lucario.

Clone engine with independent slot.
Lucario's gonna die (if DarkDragoon's Mewtwo will be used).

 

[Archangel]

well, then its a **** shame that its already been decided to keep lucario.

Working Clone Engine means nobody has to be replaced now...or did you forget that already?

 

[DarkDragoon]

Clone engine with independent slot.
Lucario's gonna die (if DarkDragoon's Mewtwo will be used).

>_> A heavily edited and fixed version will be used. Getting Confusion and Disable to work will be a ton of work, which is why I abandoned them altogether.
-DD

 

[stingers]

what are the issues with confusion and disable?

 

[Rion]

Been following this thread like a hawk lately.

I hope development has been doing really well! This is like waiting for a whole new smash game all over again... so exciting.

As a Zelda main, I'm even more anxious about what you've guys have done to her character though. All I remember about her new changes were:

- Lightning Kicks got reverted to Melee mechanics.
- Din's Fire's after lag could be jump canceled if done in the air.
- Something about Dtilt being changed into a high knockback move instead of a damage racker/combo-er.
- Previous Brawl+ changes intact for most of her moveset.

I don't even know if that's correct, and it's probably not. It's simply what I could remember from a while ago.

Care to throw a bone for some Zelda info?

 

[FrozenHobo]

Working Clone Engine means nobody has to be replaced now...or did you forget that already?

nope. there's still discussion of what characters will be added, if any, with the new engine. so far, no characters are really definite right now, if any will be added.

 

[Sterowent]

hey, sorry about that last post. i got the question inverted in my head, but a good example as shown in the post of reversion is marth's dancing blade. as one of melee's best characters, giving him a tool as good as that would upset a great deal of balance between the tops, or at least it could possibly.


i heard zelda would be given many of her melee quirks. when a zelda main got to try her, she wasn't all that changed, but the guy still got kinda upset about it. i imagine some great b+ changes will stay, while they'll probably work on giving her more of her melee feel. but i don't know much, since this took place awhile ago.

 

[Flayl]

I know you guys don't want Klaw hopping in Project M, but can I suggest reducing the lag of Bowser's side B somewhat significantly compared to Melee? It would be nice to actually be able to use an aerial command grab without the risk severly outweighing the reward.

 

[ds22]

what are the issues with confusion and disable?

Almost impossible to balance.

 

[stingers]

you mean like...game balance?
o.o

how?

just make down b the same except it can hit from behind, and make side b force them on the ground like ganons side b

 

[ds22]

you mean like...game balance?
o.o

how?

just make down b the same except it can hit from behind, and make side b force them on the ground like ganons side b

You'll have to ask DarkDragoon about that.
It just didn't work out, but maybe.

 

[Shell]

We have recently started discussing the TLC that Zelda needs and are playing around with some options.

When we get something solidified I will post some details here. In the meantime, if you were going to improve Melee Zelda, what would you do?

As for Bowser's Klaw, the reward is now much higher to match the risk; the slash kills, the F-throw combos, and the B-throw kills like a monster. We felt this was a more interesting option than just low risk - low reward.

And a few aspects of bawrl are being kept, such as its best stages, RARing, effective glide tossing, footstooling (possibly tweaked for some interesting AT applications), shorter ledge occupancy (can't change it if we wanted to), and, uh, hidden random select

I'm sure there are others which I'm forgetting. Really, the new characters are the largest additions.

 

[Deleted member]

Will Zelda once again become a ***** who spams fair and bair without any other significant strategies?

Also, does Bowser still have his flying slam throw for his Koopa Klaw? It'd be a nice addition because you'd be able to use it to KO off of the top platforms on levels like Battlefield and Yoshi's Island.

 

[Shadic]

Also, does Bowser still have his flying slam throw for his Koopa Klaw? It'd be a nice addition because you'd be able to use it to KO off of the top platforms on levels like Battlefield and Yoshi's Island.

..SHeLL JUST explained the basics of the Klaw.

 

[Alu]

Will Yoshi keep his boost when he's doing the Eggthrow?

 

[Flayl]

drpepper111: They're using the melee animation of the koopa klaw

Side note: Bowser's klaw in Brawl is low risk with a pretty big reward - 19% damage fresh and it wasn't enough to make him a high tier character. Just keep that in mind please.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I just have to say I hope some of the more dynamic stages stay. It'd be a shame if things like Norfair and Frigate Orpheon got passed up merely because people don't like them. Though I can actually see Norfair not fitting Melee playstyles as well.

 

[Deleted member]

I know they are using the Melee Koopa Klaw.

I'm just offering a point about the use of flying slam and how it could be incorporated into the Klaw as a third throw option.

 

[Revven]

If we tried to implement that, it would probably **** up other stuff dr.pepper so no.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Having something similar as an upthrow would be moderately interesting.

After all, from what I understand, isn't Bowser all about his throws and Up-B OoS?

*EDIT* Ah, I see.

Bowser needs his chainsaw sound effect for Up-B back.

 

[GP&B]

I just have to say I hope some of the more dynamic stages stay. It'd be a shame if things like Norfair and Frigate Orpheon got passed up merely because people don't like them. Though I can actually see Norfair not fitting Melee playstyles as well.

Don't worry, stage hacking already provides a vast amount of viable stages to pick from in the case that a large amount of Brawl's stages (most of which are far more unwieldy than Melee's in the first place) get banned.

 

[Rikana]

I remember Jiang mentioning that Koopa Claw has a really small amount of super armour as well. Time it right and it'll still hit/grab the opponent while you take the damage. It goes through shields too for those that don't know. I'm excited about Bowser. He's beginning to sound like a tank - what he's suppose to be from the start. He won't have much of a combo game though, which is what Gimpyfish suggested.

 

[Archangel]

nope. there's still discussion of what characters will be added, if any, with the new engine. so far, no characters are really definite right now, if any will be added.

Once this gets released to the open. It wont matter. People are gonna go M.U.G.E.N. on it.

I remember Jiang mentioning that Koopa Claw has a really small amount of super armour as well. Time it right and it'll still hit/grab the opponent while you take the damage. It goes through shields too for those that don't know. I'm excited about Bowser. He's beginning to sound like a tank - what he's suppose to be from the start. He won't have much of a combo game though, which is what Gimpyfish suggested.

Yeah I agree. There's no way that the Final Boss Should be the worse character. He's suppose to be this big strong dangerous character that tanks hits.

 

[GP&B]

Once this gets released to the open. It wont matter. People are gonna go M.U.G.E.N. on it.

I'm sure you know what he meant, but he's talking about the tournament roster

 

[Kink-Link5]

All Frame data is from SDM's page and This video.

Zelda's main problems are a poor combination of bad recovery meets no strings, bad approach options, faultily designed moves, and lag everywhere except where its actually needed. Looking at fixing just Melee Zelda as she is in Melee, some things that stick out:

Uair's animation comes out before the hitbox and doesn't match it in size. If landing detection can be figured out, fix this move to allow it to hit grounded enemies and give it lower landing lag 19 frames, 9 with L-canceling maybe?

Dair is always weak in knockback and low on speed. Maybe make the sweetspot just as strong as the regular hit, but spike instead of meteor?

U-smash hits on frames 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15, has a small pause, then hits on frames 24, 26, 28, 30, 32, and finally has knockback on frame 34. it then lasts until frame 51 where IASA occurs. That's 11 hits full of DI capability. Since the Animation is a two half-circles with a pause in between, I would have made the move one moderate hit with decent hitlag from frame 5 to 15, then one strong hit from frame 26 until 30. The move could also stand an increase in power concidering it can't kill until a fair bit past 100%, a percentage almost insulting to expect of Zelda, especially when Sheik kills before then.

Grab is pitiful. It is active only on frames 12 and 13 but has the same duration as every other grab. Move the grab window to frames 6-8.

Dash grab is in an even worse spot than regular grab. It's just as short on range and even slower. keep the grab window from 12-13, but increase this outer grabbox's size by about 0.2x.

Dash Attack has 7 active frames (6-13) and 24 frames of lag afterward, and its knockback wants to act like a GTFO move or semispike. Increase the angle and allow Jump IASA on frame 23 to combo into nair, Fair, Uair, or U-smash depending on DI.

That's all I have for now.

 

[genkaku]

As far as Mewtwo goes, it is very difficult to take him seriously at the moment. Obviously there's potential for some beastly things to happen but it's going to be difficult for melee Mewtwo to go anywhere substantial as is.
If the opportunity arises for Mewtwo to make his appearance in PM the implications for his game are immense. Mewtwo as a real, viable option is something that I, for one, would love to see happen. So interesting!

 

[Supreme Dirt]

If they did put him in, he'd need to have weight increased. He was way too light in Melee.

 

[Gindler]

Make his Fthrow awesomer too?

 

[ds22]

First the Clone Engine fully working, then we can get to work on Mewtwo.

 

[stingers]

mewtwo should:
1. not get punished for landing side b (make it force a techchase or something)
2. his down b should work when you hit someones back
3. speed up ftilt a lot
4. make him heavier why is he so ****ing light

and i'd be happy with him personally

my mewtwo ideas.

im sure there is more that COULD be done, but im already used to his ****tiness, so idk

 

[iLink]

Make his Usmash a single hit or harder to DI.
Maybe make jab not super sucky, but with that Dtilt I don't really know why you would want it use it.
Maybe make his sidestep not so horrible.


I came in hear ready to ask a question but all this mewtwo stuff totally distracted me and I forgot what I was going to ask...