Project M Social Thread

[Kunx990]

I did not know there were limited numbers of inputs in a replay file :O

What is the max?

 

[Bandit]

I did not know there were limited numbers of inputs in a replay file :O

The newer replay code that was included in the B+ set before Pound 4 had a limit. I had a bunch of teams matches that could not be saved because of it.

I don't know about the other code it was trying to replace. All I know is that one had some desyncing issues sometimes.

 

[Dingding123]

Again, you (Rikana) and/or Almas need to show me a legit warlock punch combo in a video for me to believe you guys. And SHeLL agreed with both of us when he said that situational moves aren't a bad thing. Useless moves, however, are not even situational - any other move would be, at the very least, just as good of an option in place of warlock punching.

Scorpion texture on Falcon and GoW texture on Ganon...ahh...*drools*

Edit: I think I found the video you guys were referring to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPF14ntYqqs

 

[shanus]

Again, you (Rikana) and/or Almas need to show me a legit warlock punch combo in a video for me to believe you guys. And SHeLL agreed with both of us when he said that situational moves aren't a bad thing. Useless moves, however, are not even situational - any other move would be, at the very least, just as good of an option in place of warlock punching.

Scorpion texture on Falcon and GoW texture on Ganon...ahh...*drools*

Find the clip Magus does where he does a perfect ledge cancel dair as ganon into a *registered* combo with ganon's utilt (hits frame 81-83). By that logic, ganons warlock punch can be combo'd into as it hits on frame 70. Win

 

[kaizo13]

sry, off-topic but also win

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE9PHhWypLQ&feature=related

Spoiler

i lol'd

Edit: lolwtf DI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtq4Wn6ghBE&feature=related

 

[CanadaKid91]

I don't think now is the time to worry about tweaking balance but I'll contribute to this discussion anyway. Here's the real question we should be asking: Does Ganon really need a more applicable warlock punch?
If you can come up with a strong argument for radically changing one of Ganon's moves then please, share it. If not, then save this discussion for after the physics are finalized.

 

[Dingding123]

Find the clip Magus does where he does a perfect ledge cancel dair as ganon into a *registered* combo with ganon's utilt (hits frame 81-83). By that logic, ganons warlock punch can be combo'd into as it hits on frame 70. Win

Lulz, I'm posting up a storm today.

Can't seem to find that vid, but I'm assuming the guy was at heavy damage and didn't tech it.

If so, a fair, fsmash or usmash could all most likely produce the exact same results. Sure, it's cool to actually connect with utilt or warlock punch. But in what situation could they possibly be as or more effective than any other option Ganon has? That's what I'm getting at here.

Oh, and any reason why some of you guys are against the idea of super armor? Keep in mind that Ike and Wario have a move with it, whereas ganon has absolutely none IIRC.

 

[Rikana]

Warlock Punch combo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRIhJH7b0Gk#t=2m10s

You can't say that he could escape this combo by doing X and such. Everyone knows that. Combos exist to exploit mistakes as big as this one in the video. I'll try to find the dAir to uTilt next. And yes, you can use something else other than Warlock Punch or uTilt but it looks much better to execute these kind of attacks other than a smash attack.

 

[CanadaKid91]

If so, a fair, fsmash or usmash could all most likely produce the exact same results. Sure, it's cool to actually connect with utilt or warlock punch. But in what situation could they possibly be as or more effective than any other option Ganon has? That's what I'm getting at here.

Your own example actually deconstructs your argument. If Ganon has fair, fsmash, or usmash as you say then he doesn't need warlock punch/utilt to be useful.

I'll say this again, let's focus on physics before we address balance. Creativity is nice but it's the physics that will ultimately determine the success of this project.

 

[Dingding123]

Your own example actually deconstructs your argument. If Ganon has fair, fsmash, or usmash as you say then he doesn't need warlock punch/utilt to be useful.

I'll say this again, let's focus on physics before we address balance. Creativity is nice but it's the physics that will ultimately determine the success of this project.

Yup: if Ganon has fair, fsmash, or usmash, he doesn't need warlock punch / utilt to be USEFUL.

However...Marth and Link's entire moveset is viable in that each move has its own situation that it shines in. Just saying...that doesn't exactly seem fair. They pretty much get more moves, and thus more options than ganon does in competitive fighting.

But yeah, physics first. Just trying to help plan for the future and give this thread something to discuss.

Warlock Punch combo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRIhJH7b0Gk#t=2m10s

You can't say that he could escape this combo by doing X and such. Everyone knows that. Combos exist to exploit mistakes as big as this one in the video. I'll try to find the dAir to uTilt next. And yes, you can use something else other than Warlock Punch or uTilt but it looks much better to execute these kind of attacks other than a smash attack.

Everyone knows that he could escape that combo by seeing that he just started to warlock punch at least a half second before the falcon hit the ground. And I CAN argue that. Combos don't exist just to exploit mistakes; they also exist to make characters more effective. Why do you think Kirby absolutely sucked in Melee? He had hardly any combos. He can punish mistakes and whatnot, but not nearly as well as other characters; thus, he isn't as effective as other characters.

Now, how practical is stomp -> warlock punch in comparison to stomp -> fair, usmash or fsmash in a competitive match where money is on the line? Not very. Again, warlock punch is absolutely useless and for the lulz. Compare it to marth's shield breaking neutral b or Link's arrows.

 

[shanus]

Lulz, I'm posting up a storm today.

Can't seem to find that vid, but I'm assuming the guy was at heavy damage and didn't tech it.

If so, a fair, fsmash or usmash could all most likely produce the exact same results. Sure, it's cool to actually connect with utilt or warlock punch. But in what situation could they possibly be as or more effective than any other option Ganon has? That's what I'm getting at here.

Oh, and any reason why some of you guys are against the idea of super armor? Keep in mind that Ike and Wario have a move with it, whereas ganon has absolutely none IIRC.

No its entirely airborne off a platform, they ledgecancel a dair on Yoshi's story against falcon and the utilt connects with falcon prelanding

 

[Rikana]

I can't find the dAir to uTilt combo. Does anyone have a link to it? I should have favourited it back then. I found something extremely interesting while browsing through Magus' youtube videos. Apparently Falcon can sweetspot his upB on battlefield as early as frame 14. It makes it look like a Brawl ledge grab.

 

[shanus]

I can't find the dAir to uTilt combo. Does anyone have a link to it? I should have favourited it back then. I found something extremely interesting while browsing through Magus' youtube videos. Apparently Falcon can sweetspot his upB on battlefield as early as frame 14. It makes it look like a Brawl ledge grab.

He has a gif of it somewhere :-\

 

[Magus420]

The warlock punch combo doesn't require you to edgecancel the d-air so it's a lot more reasonable to land in a match:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI2iTONpvs4

 

[shanus]

magus so speedy

 

[Dingding123]

The warlock punch combo doesn't require you to edgecancel the d-air so it's a lot more reasonable to land in a match:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI2iTONpvs4
[/color]

Those work on space animals on yoshi's story at a very small range of damage percents, and maybe on other stages with platforms. However, when will one be able to efficiently use those awesome moves of mass destruction in any other situation?

Guys, please...I'm not a troll! Don't dust off the (h)axes and (ban)hammers and go troll hunting; I use reason you know. I'll agree with you guys when I know my points are disproven and my arguments wrong. I just want ganon to be awesome AND efficient, creating awesome^2 like how falcon is.

 

[Magus420]

Those work on space animals on yoshi's story at a very small range of damage percents, and maybe on other stages with platforms. However, when will one be able to efficiently use those awesome moves of mass destruction in any other situation?

Guys, please...I'm not a troll! Don't dust off the (h)axes and (ban)hammers and go troll hunting; I use reason you know. I'll agree with you guys when I know my points are disproven and my arguments wrong. I just want ganon to be awesome AND efficient, creating awesome^2 like how falcon is.

|
V​

If you stomp someone and immediately use warlock punch, if the player has brains and uses them there is no possible way you will land it.

There do exist Falcon Punch/Warlock Punch combos in Melee.

Again, you (Rikana) and/or Almas need to show me a legit warlock punch combo in a video for me to believe you guys.

You asked for the combo. You got the combo =P

 

[kaizo13]

is it safe to say we will see some more gameplay footage either tomorrow or saturday? ?

 

[shanus]

Dingding, there is no arguing with Magus lol

 

[Dingding123]

You asked for the combo. You got the combo =P

lol, very true. Ty for the link - I had no idea you could do that.

is it safe to say we will see some more gameplay footage either tomorrow or saturday? ?

^^^^^^^THIS. :o

 

[Archangel]

would anyone be opposed to increasing Warlock Punch speed or Utilt speed but nerfing them in power. As for the Chargeable punch I think it could work out to be something like DK's which worked out fine for him.

 

[Dingding123]

would anyone be opposed to increasing Warlock Punch speed or Utilt speed but nerfing them in power. As for the Chargeable punch I think it could work out to be something like DK's which worked out fine for him.

I'd actually suggest increasing utilt's power. Heck, let it be the strongest move in the game, next to gaymanwatch's [9] judgement attack. Don't let any other options for team combos, shield breaks or missed rests overshadow it. Chargeable warlock punch would be awesome with me. By the way, doesn't DK have super armor frames when he lets loose his donkey pawnch? That would suit ganon nicely.

 

[GP&B]

I only support making general bad moves useful if characters don't already have more useful tools. The only thing I could really ask for with Ganondorf is a useful UTilt doing what most UTilts do. Warlock Punch can then stay as is.

Or, I feel that maybe Warlock Punch shouldn't be outprioritized ever.

I was going to say buff Mario's DTilt, but it feels great in B+. Same with dash attack too.
Personally, I still wish for the 64 Falcon Punch and Falcon's 64 USmash allows for some diabolical stuff. USmash isn't really as needed though.
Samus getting the 64 Bair would be godly. It'd make attacking her back scary and it's probably the only 64 move left I'd be interested in seeing here.

Also, is Mario getting the much more accurate sweetspot on his Fair? I may have asked before but I don't believe this was answered.

 

[SonioNineteen]

Is Mario DAir change into melee's one yet?

is Mario Down B change into Mario Tornado?

Does Luigi Down B if tap rapidly make him go up like in B+?

Does Samus Neutral B reach to the other side of the stage like in Melee

Can Link and Toon Link's Arrows disappear in mid air? maybe altering their arrows range of something

Is Toon Link DAir gonna be like Brawl+ or like Link's one.

I hope I'm not asking too much

 

[GP&B]

Yes.
No.
I think so.
I don't know.
No idea.
Young Link's.

 

[SonioNineteen]

thanks for the reply

I was kinda hoping that they will get rid of Mario's Brawl Down B and replace with Mario tornado
oh well.

but still P:M is gonna rulez!

 

[Dai Tian]

Fludd is better in both utility and recovery. Although, not sure if it'll still be awesome at it with Melee's gravity settings, but it'll be that much better for gimping.

 

[WiyamMang]

By the way, doesn't DK have super armor frames when he lets loose his donkey pawnch? That would suit ganon nicely.

Heh. And for a second there I had the silly idea of giving Ganon Super Armor frames during the entire duration of the charge. I still consider the move a gimp.

 

[ValTroX]

Guys, is there any way to remove the walljump from the jump buttons? I end up walljumping more times than i want to because of that input. It should be like in melee(hug the wall and press the opposite direction).

 

[sffadsad]

if it ever gets to the point where Ganon's Warlock punch and u-tilt are deemed to be completely useless I think the best remedy would just be some slight angle, bkb, kbg, and/or % modifications. That way one would get that nice angle, the other would get that good damage or something.

Until we get to that point, which would probably be sometime around beta, all the argument is just pointless theorycraft as we don't even know how the original moves will work in the finalized physics engine.

 

[Deleted member]

How's the idea of his Warlock Punch being jab speed (maybe reanimated for the jab speed) causing very little damage and tripping, but reflecting projectiles.

The tripping works into his tech chase game which is already incredible with his choke and Dthrow. It would also be a mix up from jab.

The reflection aspect would be a tribute to boss battles in OoT and TP. It works into his playstyle of being a slower moving wall using fair, ftilt, jab and the proposed warlock punch. A weakness with projectiles still exists when Ganon is in the air or facing the other direction.

I had already mentioned this once before but without any feedback discussion.

It's obvious that with Ganon being very powerful boasting multiple KO moves, that utilt and warlock punch are pretty much obsolete except for kicks.


I had another idea regarding Pika's sourspot reverse Usmash hitbox. How about making it useful instead of a flub hit. That could be interesting.

 

[GP&B]

Since you can already hit in the opposite direction to wall jump, I think it should be possible to remove wall jumping from hitting a jump button.

 

[ValTroX]

yeah, thats what I want

 

[Turazrok]

woah, woah, eheh. i wouldn't say that...the monumental achievements in this community, by the key players of dant, kryal, PW, as well as many users of tools developed by them, such as eldiran, mewtwo2000, and randomtbrush, couldn't have been easy. it's pretty inspirational.

just sayin. not easy, though worth all the effort, it seems like.

edit: well, not that i'ma list everyone, but i should also add of course the huge credit project leaders are too, hah. the smash world awaits, shanus!
edit2: he put up another vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3rtjO_UjlQ&feature=channel if you care to check.
the matches are better than the other ones.

By easy I mean very accessible to the general public.

 

[Rikana]

Since we're on walljumps. Does anyone else find Brawl's walljumps much easier to do than Melee's? I know its a simple stroke of an input but Brawl's walljump seems to come out much more easily. Maybe Sakurai increased the distance of where you have to be in order to walljump?

 

[Gardevior]

I think it's the same thing as the landing detection code; you're just landing on a vertical surface instead of a horizontal one.

 

[ETWIST51294]

I always accidentally wall jump in Brawl. That **** pisses me off.

 

[Rikana]

Scorpion Falcon:
http://img693.imageshack.us/i/rsbp01145.png/

Gears of War Ganon:
http://img28.imageshack.us/i/rsbe0130.png/

They're so amazing.

 

[Dingding123]

Scorpion Falcon:
http://img693.imageshack.us/i/rsbp01145.png/

Gears of War Ganon:
http://img28.imageshack.us/i/rsbe0130.png/

They're so amazing.

They're both awesome, but I think people will truly bust a nut when they see that scorpion falcon. That is freaking amazing.

 

[camelot]

Since we're on walljumps. Does anyone else find Brawl's walljumps much easier to do than Melee's? I know its a simple stroke of an input but Brawl's walljump seems to come out much more easily. Maybe Sakurai increased the distance of where you have to be in order to walljump?

I think in Brawl, when it comes to walljumping, the joystick is more sensitive.

Also, in Melee, you couldn't walljump with X or Y. You had to tap the joystick. That makes "scar jumping" a lot easier in Brawl+/P:M compared to Melee.