Project M Social Thread

[Archangel]

*Apologizes* It hasn't been a good day for me personally. I disagree with the idea of dumbing down melee because that's kinda what this project was suppose to be avoiding since 9000 years ago and its pretty much been decided already but If you want to argue about it go ahead. I officially withdraw from the argument.

*peace*

 

[humble]

Chill Humble its not that serious. He was likely going to the beach already anyway

I don't mean to be rude but I just get annoyed over time when someone won't shut up about an idea that has been talked about and decided upon Months ago....That and the fact that they constantly ignore everyone else's point and keep spamming the same(My logic is undeniable)kind of posts.makes me wanna punch an ugly baby after awhile.

Even if it wasn't, it's still a good idea to be respectful and logical when in a discussion.

I would agree that people need to realize that ultimately, the decision is up to the team, and that when they've made a decision, we should respect that. When you repeat a point, you are attempting to do 3 things; reiterate, and emphasize your point, bring it to the attention of others for consideration and response, and sway others with your points.

However there are multiple downsides to repeating yourself again, especially when your point has been responded to and considered, and dismissed, then they explained their reasoning why. You can't argue with the team's decision- this is their project, that they have put massive investment in to develop, and you don't have the power to tell them what to do and why. If you disagree, you should try to be persuasive and explain why you feel your point is of merit, and try to sway their opinions. When you come across as aggressive, repetitive, annoying, or obnoxious, you can only hurt your own argument, and your future reputation with those you offend. So please, posters, try to be more reasonable with how you approach things, and understand that this is not our decision, but the devs are kind enough to listen to us and consider what we say. Be appreciative of that, and don't be rude or negative to others- it will not help you in the slightest and there is no need for it.

They're being dismissed entirely because this conversation has come up several different times in several different projects. Nothing that has been brought up hasn't already been said before, and a lot of the developers for Project M (myself included) have been in the Brawl Hacking scene for over a year and a half now.


Unfortunately, nah. I'm in Portland come September, though.

Like they have stated several times, they have already made a decision in regards to this topic, and they have their reasons for doing so. You shouldn't try to argue with their decisions, as they are final and will only get more irritated if you protest. If you've ever played a sport, it's like the Ref in the game- if they have made a call, it is final and will not be reversed; arguing with them will only serve to put you in their disfavor.

Alright, I'll be around then, so we'll organize something that doesn't conflict; do you have any classes on the weekends?

 

[Archangel]

link to new vids?

Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJHSVROUwyU&videos=YEg8xGYGoxQ

New physics demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcjQUzAYjCU&videos=O_e8E4sG-8s

Matches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G6HKhVVQzQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MAtCY10ZNA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja1ESdx0vDk

 

[SymphonicSage12]

To me, Wario should play similar to Jigglypuff in this case...short hop + retreating aerials, "empty" shorthops, etc.

 

[humble]

To me, Wario should play similar to Jigglypuff in this case...short hop + retreating aerials, "empty" shorthops, etc.

Wario is an exceptionally mobile character with moderate attacks but great spacing, and he has fairly melee esque physics- wario is a character who is capable of odd immediate shifts in his play, which makes him unpredictable. For example, his F-smash which is slow to start, but then suddenly he lunges forward. Or f-tilt, where he winds up, and then immediately his massive hand appears. He jukes with his aerial acceleration, and has alot of lasting attacks that come out quickly. I don't think he is a character who would be particularly difficult to put into melee- he retains most of his characteristics, and none of them violate the melee feel.

 

[GP&B]

I feel that he could get a partial nerf to his aerial mobility, but not only am I undermining Wario mains, I don't even main Wario >.>

 

[Archangel]

I wonder what will be done about his Bike? I hate to admit it but that move feels nothing like Melee. Perhaps he can get a new SideB? Or have his Bike destroy itself on impact or something like that. Kinda how Yoshi's egg roll destroys itself on contact. It could still be used for recovery and epic off edge finishes. At least that is what I envision.

 

[Wavebuster]

You don't need to react though. For the d-air example if you l-cancel when the hitbox first comes out that single input would work on hit or whiff since if you l-cancel during hitlag the timer doesn't start counting until after it ends. Also, l-cancels are spammable in Melee (64 too I think) so you could also press Z->R/L around 7 frames apart to work through pretty much any scenario with a near doubled l-cancel window.

That first solution appears to be dependent on hitting on the first frame, which isn't always a sure case.

I know that there isn't a punishment window for L-canceling like there is for teching/meteor canceling, but the fact that's it's possible to spam press these buttons to successfully L-cancel seems to be beyond the scope of what people are complaining about when it comes to L-canceling. It's in the realm of "you can, but almost no one does it even now" in case things happen faster than you think and your shield comes up at an inopportune moment. Personally, I would be for a punishment window on L-cancels.

Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzTzYzM8miU for the lulz.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I see you replaced Snake's utilt.
I recommend you replace fair too, as it is too slow to be useful under these physics.
0:53 perfectly demonstrates a reason why.

 

[iLink]

I think wario has the potential to be pretty aggressive with his dair/nair and his mobility lets him get in quick. Couple that with his ability to bait and punish and he seems pretty solid.

 

[I R MarF]

Considering that in the past 2 years Jiggs has floated her way to a top tier spot in melee... Wario being a heavy jiggs isn't the greatest idea since he lacks rest, extra jumps/wall of pain power that Jiggs has...

*watches Mango getting M2K to rage quit in Smash Revival Tournament*

Yeah, Wario should definitely keep his air camping abilities but he needs something that makes his playstyle very unique when compared to Jiggs because in comparison she is more appealing. I could be wrong of course.

 

[shanus]

You don't need to react though. For the d-air example if you l-cancel when the hitbox first comes out that single input would work on hit or whiff since if you l-cancel during hitlag the timer doesn't start counting until after it ends. Also, l-cancels are spammable in Melee (64 too I think) so you could also press Z->R/L around 7 frames apart to work through pretty much any scenario with a near doubled l-cancel window.

I actually programmed a fail window into the PM one so you can't spam it. Easily disabled, though.

Additionally, ours (more of a bug that I want to fix), decrements the timer even during hitlag. Requires a lot more precision nowadays.

 

[Wavebuster]

I actually programmed a fail window into the PM one so you can't spam it. Easily disabled, though.

Additionally, ours (more of a bug that I want to fix), decrements the timer even during hitlag. Requires a lot more precision nowadays.

Keep the fail window, imo.

 

[Rikana]

I think the failwindow should be kept as well. It takes more skills than the actual Melee L-canceling.

 

[Revven]

I see you replaced Snake's utilt.
I recommend you replace fair too, as it is too slow to be useful under these physics.
0:53 perfectly demonstrates a reason why.

Fair isn't a useless move though nor is it too good. Snake at the current moment doesn't need another new move, the reason he got that Utilt is because it makes sense in a Melee environment and it fits his new playstyle.

 

[jalued]

Fair isn't a useless move though nor is it too good. Snake at the current moment doesn't need another new move, the reason he got that Utilt is because it makes sense in a Melee environment and it fits his new playstyle.

discussion: whats going to happen to snakes sideB?

and as mentioned earlier, wario's sideB?

 

[Pen_island]

Can you guys put in taunt canceling off of the little platforms you spawn on, like in 64?

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

OK. Thanks for the explanation.

Snake's side B MIGHT be sped up a bit like his Down Smash.

I think they did put in Taunt cancelling in already.

 

[Deleted member]

I actually programmed a fail window into the PM one so you can't spam it. Easily disabled, though.

Additionally, ours (more of a bug that I want to fix), decrements the timer even during hitlag. Requires a lot more precision nowadays.

Awesome, more precision needed for L-Canceling is nothing but a good thing. This is definitely an important addition.

 

[humble]

Considering that in the past 2 years Jiggs has floated her way to a top tier spot in melee... Wario being a heavy jiggs isn't the greatest idea since he lacks rest, extra jumps/wall of pain power that Jiggs has...

*watches Mango getting M2K to rage quit in Smash Revival Tournament*

Yeah, Wario should definitely keep his air camping abilities but he needs something that makes his playstyle very unique when compared to Jiggs because in comparison she is more appealing. I could be wrong of course.

Wario is an exceptionally mobile character with moderate attacks but great spacing, and he has fairly melee esque physics- wario is a character who is capable of odd immediate shifts in his play, which makes him unpredictable. For example, his F-smash which is slow to start, but then suddenly he lunges forward. Or f-tilt, where he winds up, and then immediately his massive hand appears. He jukes with his aerial acceleration, and has alot of lasting attacks that come out quickly. I don't think he is a character who would be particularly difficult to put into melee- he retains most of his characteristics, and none of them violate the melee feel.

Oh look! He already has a very unique playstyle as I explained a page before. :V

He isn't very similar to jigglypuff except that they are both fairly mobile characters in the air. However he is faster, falls faster, has less range, and is actually good on the ground too.

 

[MonkUnit]

I probably skipped over this, but, will Project M have the ability to tether anywhere like in melee? Or was the code never finished/worked?

 

[Archangel]

so....What is going to happen to Wario's SideB?

 

[humble]

I probably skipped over this, but, will Project M have the ability to tether anywhere like in melee? Or was the code never finished/worked?

While they would include the function, unfortunately it has proven near impossible to code such a feature.

 

[SonioNineteen]

Is the Melee camera gonna be in code or in stage pacs like in brawl+ if I remember

 

[94teen]

Oh look! He already has a very unique playstyle as I explained a page before. :V

He isn't very similar to jigglypuff except that they are both fairly mobile characters in the air. However he is faster, falls faster, has less range, and is actually good on the ground too.

My concern is that some of that isn't true. Puff is ridiculous at spacing, and can just take a stock off of you if you mess anything up too badly. What does wario do? Most melee characters don't care terribly much about ground game, as shffled aerials are almost as effective for most people. Sure, tilts have seen a lot of applications, but most approaches are either aerials or grabs, and most defensive tilts are fast, and cover a large space. None of these are necessarily true for Wario, which concerns me.

I have very little experience with either character, but it seems to me that a puff camping with spaced Bairs is going to be almost strictly better than Wario doing anything similar with either aerials or tilts, with the additional advantage of just killing you sometimes with a rest. I really feel like Wario's going to need something to happen to make him feel different or give people a reason, even a gimmicky one, to play him over puff.

 

[Magus420]

That first solution appears to be dependent on hitting on the first frame, which isn't always a sure case.

It's not though. The 'when the hitbox comes out' was for the low d-air example like when being used to poke a shield. If also talking about other situations like having airtime between when it comes out and when you land it could be more generalized by saying input the l-cancel on the frame you would normally land when not hitting or the frame directly before it (guarantees success on both hit/whiff with any timing of the attack and is outside the control of the opponent), and up to 7th(?) before you would land without hitting but after it would connect if it would hit (variable depending on timing and in some cases the opponent's actions). If the hitlag adds less than 7 frames you'd also have 7 minus the amount added to do it before it would hit on that last part up to the 7th before landing.


Fail window, doesn't start counting until after hitlag (if eventually possible), and some of the more laggy attack landing lag animations modified to have situational semi-dodge use as a mixup when not l-canceled would be nice imo.

 

[I R MarF]

Oh look! He already has a very unique playstyle as I explained a page before. :V

He isn't very similar to jigglypuff except that they are both fairly mobile characters in the air. However he is faster, falls faster, has less range, and is actually good on the ground too.

I can understand your views, but I don't appreciate you trying to make me seem idiotic for not addressing your post.

 

[humble]

Yeah, Wario should definitely keep his air camping abilities but he needs something that makes his playstyle very unique when compared to Jiggs because in comparison she is more appealing. I could be wrong of course.

This was the part that I was responding to, and whether your post was directed at me or not, it's still relevant.

And sorry if I sounded like I was trying to make you seem less intelligent, that wasn't my intent. However I saw your post and noticed that my post was relevant and since I'd already made my post, I just quoted it to bring it to your attention.

 

[jalued]

so no ideas for wario's sideB bike? it doesn't fit with the melee environment in its current state

 

[I R MarF]

This was the part that I was responding to, and whether your post was directed at me or not, it's still relevant.

And sorry if I sounded like I was trying to make you seem less intelligent, that wasn't my intent. However I saw your post and noticed that my post was relevant and since I'd already made my post, I just quoted it to bring it to your attention.

Alright. I gotchya.

 

[Ryuker]

Just thought I'd let the dev's know. I've shown the physics matches en demonstration to some of the dutch pro's. Posted it on our forum etc.

I get very mixed results. Some find it very awesome. Some don't care. And some have very little faith in the project . Some are definetly willing to help in the beta test process and some even think this could be the most played game if it all plays well .

The main criticism I hear was that the animations looks sluggish. They argue that if it looks sluggish that it will affect gameplay aswell. There is some minor criticism about moves too but I'm not gonna bother with that now till we get our hands on a testable version.

So to conclude. There is definetly interest but also a lot of doubt.

Just to let you guys know ^^

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I think Wario's side b should break apart whenever it hits something, whether it be a person or wall...and in the air, it should give little to no horizontal boost. However, it would still help with recovery because you could jump off of it and up b.

 

[Archangel]

SO!....How about that wario SideB

 

[Strong Badam]

SO!....How about that wario SideB

he's keeping his bike. we'll meleefy him eventually.

 

[Archangel]

he's keeping his bike. we'll meleefy him eventually.

I love you strong_bad. I was wrong I really do wanna **** you bud

 

[I R MarF]

As a recovery:

Is it possible for wario's bike to go on a much more downard angle in the air, but also give him his double jump back/ make it jump outable (similar to Wizard's Foot and Falcon Kick)? If you did this, you would have to make it so Wario would have to be grounded before he could use the bike again so he couldn't reuse it over an over when recovering. (I'm not sure how it is now, just saying)

As a ground move:

Is it also possible to make the bike chargeable? The longer its charged, the faster it goes but the harder it is to turn (Liek Jiggs and Sonic). I also think it would be interesting if Wario could jump out of his bike but it would still continue to go forward giving him the ability to force his oponents up the air. The timer before you can get your bike back would also have to be adjusted accordingly to balance this tactic.

 

[Wind Owl]

Revv those engines, son.

 

[.Fade]

I agree. Besides aerial mobility, Wario and Jiggs don't hav much in common at all. I'm sure Wario will have a very different playstyle from Jiggs once he's been Meleefied. :]

Regarding the Brawl camera: I know it's not universal coding, but isn't editing each individual PSA an option? All characters have an attribute that control how far the camera zooms out in each direction. Modify this, and you should get a more efficient angle, no?

 

[Shell]

Just thought I'd let the dev's know. I've shown the physics matches en demonstration to some of the dutch pro's. Posted it on our forum etc.

I get very mixed results. Some find it very awesome. Some don't care. And some have very little faith in the project . Some are definetly willing to help in the beta test process and some even think this could be the most played game if it all plays well .

The main criticism I hear was that the animations looks sluggish. They argue that if it looks sluggish that it will affect gameplay aswell. There is some minor criticism about moves too but I'm not gonna bother with that now till we get our hands on a testable version.

So to conclude. There is definetly interest but also a lot of doubt.

Just to let you guys know ^^

We have matched the speed of most attacks frame by frame, so I do not know why it would appear sluggish.

If there are certain moves that stand out in particular let me know and I can test them again frame by frame. Thanks.

 

[Ryuker]

We have matched the speed of most attacks frame by frame, so I do not know why it would appear sluggish.

If there are certain moves that stand out in particular let me know and I can test them again frame by frame. Thanks.

I'll ask. I suspect that it also has to do with the overall look of the game. It look like brawl so at first glance you get these bad reactions. I think the different modells also have something to do with it. Then there's also the brawl sounds that throw you off. But I'll ask them to be more specific .